[Archived] Manchester Bombing

[davulsukur]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Just kick them out of the country. 

People who support these terrorist groups or preachers of this sort of stuff should be deport. 

We need to tougher up our Borders security, tougher immigration laws, new internet security and new funding needed for terror police. 

Can I just say how great the armed police was yesterday night to get these 3 people within 8 mins and killing them. Also big thanks to the Police and Ambulance service and Doctors/nurses

Where to?

[Batman.]

Just now, davulsukur said:

Where to?

It's not worth it mate.

[matt83]

17 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If they were British born where would you deport them to ? No other country will take them and I wouldn't blame them for not doing.

If you're looking for simple solutions - there aren't any. This is a complex problem with very deep roots and chances are there will be more of these incidents before we manage to get back to a normal situation. This will run as long as the events in Northern Ireland in my opinion, we need to be prepared for a long drawn out campaign.

Rendition. No formal deportation process. Just need mi5/sas type blokes in teams bag over the potential terrorists head drop them off in the middle of the Saharan desert or the Atlantic for all I care.

During the problems with the IRA I'm sure we presented evedince on to the courts then without trail they were detained. Effectively our Guantanamo Bay.

Will it happen for our collective safety. You can bet your life it won't it would upset the bleeding hearts far too much. So we just continue knowing who the potential terrorists are but do nothing. 

[dave birch]

Just now, davulsukur said:

Where to?

Dav, the Germans are already deporting "home grown terrorists". Back to their parents original homeland.

[Batman.]

The entire objective of ISIS is to cause the west to descend into chaos as start behaving in a medievil way.

Now we have people suggesting that anybody who is a potential terrorist should be put in a helicopter and dropped in the Sahara Desert/ Atlantic Ocean.

 

[Batman.]

Just now, dave birch said:

Dav, the Germans are already deporting "home grown terrorists". Back to their parents original homeland.

Really? I've not seen anything about this.

[matt83]

Just now, Batman. said:

The entire objective of ISIS is to cause the west to descend into chaos as start behaving in a medievil way.

Now we have people suggesting that anybody who is a potential terrorist should be put in a helicopter and dropped in the Sahara Desert/ Atlantic Ocean.

 

And your suggestion would be? Protect the extremists rights and then just let him have a crack when good and ready

plus if ISIS aim is to provoke us into draconian measures and as a consequence we wipe them off the face of the earth. Job done surely. 

[dave birch]

Here's just one link, there are many:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/03/22/germany-deport-two-terror-suspects-born-country-life-long-ban/

[JBiz]

9 hours ago, Baz said:

Time not to give up our principles and continue to stand firmly together in our multi -faith, multicultural, tolerant and democratic society.

Spot on. Will say it again and again and again; these barbaric nut jobs do not represent a Religious group.

Their sole purpose and aim to is to create fear and division in western cities, and we give it to them on a plate in many ways. What does Jihad translate to? Holy war... why do we give this minority what they seek, a world against their religion? I repeat, these scum bag extremists might look and sound like Muslims, but it's like tarnishing Christianity because of the KKKs actions, as they use a Christian "religious effigy"

These atrocities often happen after each other - as the police swoop in, some planned attacks get pushed forward. Thank god for the emergency services response.

The amount of people I've seen (including the president of the US) push agenda on the internet using these deaths, has made me sick. Actually using this as justification for not being concerned about climate change! 

"Terrorism is the use of violence or threat of violence especially against civilians in the pursuit of political aims, religious, or ideological change." From wiki.

So let's not give them their intention. Of creating mass fear, anger and retaliations abroad that cost more innocent life.

 

[JBiz]

10 minutes ago, matt83 said:

And your suggestion would be? Protect the extremists rights and then just let him have a crack when good and ready

plus if ISIS aim is to provoke us into draconian measures and as a consequence we wipe them off the face of the earth. Job done surely. 

We created Isis by funding countries battles against neighbours without knowing the whole score. We did the the same with the taliban, then the same with al queda. 

If we deal with these guys the same way, it'll be someone else afterwards. The Yemen issues point at that being something from that part of the world, or perhaps it'll come from the US funding Kurds in Syria? I don't know.

One thing I do know though is it won't be solved by dropping bombs.

[matt83]

Just now, Biz said:

We created Isis by funding countries battles against neighbours without knowing the whole score. We did the the same with the taliban, then the same with al queda. 

If we deal with these guys the same way, it'll be someone else afterwards. The Yemen issues point at that being something from that part of the world, or perhaps it'll come from the US funding Kurds in Syria? I don't know.

One thing I do know though is it won't be solved by dropping bombs.

To be fair global extremism can probably never be stopped. But there are domestic solutions making our streets safer and that's pretty much all I care about:

1) Legally deport suspected terrorists and extremists to either their or their parents country of origin.

2) If cannot deport them detain them indefinitely in detention centres/jails. Probably at less cost than monitoring them.

3) Rendition. The murky world of the secret service no courts, no human rights dump them anywhere but here.

4) Execute them

 

All 4 scenarios, admittedly getting more extreme, involve removing dangerous individuals from the UK but some are unwilling to accept them. Hence without such actions extremists here currently have a free hit.

 

Drastic times call for drastic measures. 

[Hasta]

Just now, Biz said:

We created Isis by funding countries battles against neighbours without knowing the whole score. We did the the same with the taliban, then the same with al queda. 

If we deal with these guys the same way, it'll be someone else afterwards. The Yemen issues point at that being something from that part of the world, or perhaps it'll come from the US funding Kurds in Syria? I don't know.

One thing I do know though is it won't be solved by dropping bombs.

Without western support, who knows whether ISIS would have continued their success and marched on to Baghdad. Similar story in Syria. Would you allow these extremists, who massacre and practically enslave fellow muslims in these areas, to potentially take over whole countries? 

How ISIS have come about is one issue, but ignoring them and letting them spread through the Middle East is surely worse for the region than no action at all.

[Batman.]

15 minutes ago, matt83 said:

And your suggestion would be? Protect the extremists rights and then just let him have a crack when good and ready

plus if ISIS aim is to provoke us into draconian measures and as a consequence we wipe them off the face of the earth. Job done surely. 

There is no quick solution. Carrying out your solution would only breed new homegrown terrorists who would be disgusted by chucking loads of Muslims in the sea as they are suspected terrorists. The only sure fire solution is a genocide of all suspected Muslims. Judging by your ridiculous "wipe them off the face of the earth" comment, you'd probably be up for that. How do you suggest we "wipe them off the face of the earth?" Drop nuclear bombs om all IS run territory? Chuck all suspected terrorists in the sea?

Every religion in history has been through an extremism and terrorism phase. The islamic one will be the great war of our lifetime. However, your suggestions are utterly moronic.

[Dreyski]

2 hours ago, Paul said:

The BBC are reporting the Conservative election campaign will be suspended today. What do people think of this? I felt suspending campaigning after Manchester was a mistake and the same applies today.

We should not be changing our behaviour in response to these attacks.

Looks like UKIP agree with you - reports that they're not suspending their campaign.

[matt83]

Just now, Batman. said:

There is no quick solution. Carrying out your solution would only breed new homegrown terrorists who would be disgusted by chucking loads of Muslims in the sea as they are suspected terrorists. The only sure fire solution is a genocide of all suspected Muslims. Judging by your ridiculous "wipe them off the face of the earth" comment, you'd probably be up for that. How do you suggest we "wipe them off the face of the earth?" Drop nuclear bombs om all IS run territory? Chuck all suspected terrorists in the sea?

Every religion in history has been through an extremism and terrorism phase. The islamic one will be the great war of our lifetime. However, your suggestions are utterly moronic.

If more extremists are created by deporting extremists then get rid of them as well. Start here and try and find them wherever they may be across the planet. I'm not talking about all Muslim just extremists I know muslims who hate this lot more than anyone I know because as well as being appalled at their actions they feel as though it tars them with the same brush.

My suggestions would make the uk safer. You offer no solutions 

[JBiz]

Just now, matt83 said:

To be fair global extremism can probably never be stopped. But there are domestic solutions making our streets safer and that's pretty much all I care about:

1) Legally deport suspected terrorists and extremists to either their or their parents country of origin.

2) If cannot deport them detain them indefinitely in detention centres/jails. Probably at less cost than monitoring them.

3) Rendition. The murky world of the secret service no courts, no human rights dump them anywhere but here.

4) Execute them

 

All 4 scenarios, admittedly getting more extreme, involve removing dangerous individuals from the UK but some are unwilling to accept them. Hence without such actions extremists here currently have a free hit.

 

Drastic times call for drastic measures. 

 

If you deport, extradite or even go so far as executing people without being absolutely 100% convinced they are responsible for preparation and uptake of terrorism, you will potentially create more terrorists.

As BM says - it's extremely murky waters without a simple answer.

 

 

[Baz]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I think you're right. These people want to have the maximum impact on our way of life,. We need to minimise this. I also think that the media going on and on about these incidents for day after day does nobody any favours.

On another point this sounds like a very amateurish operation. Knives and fake suicide belts. If you need any evidence that our gun laws are working look at the lack of guns involved in these incidents. In certain other country's these guys would be armed to the teeth with military style weapons they'd have bought in their local gun shop giving them the ability to kill many more people.

It's  hard to say what to do to prevent further similar attacks other than stepping up what we're already doing. Internment didn't work in Northern Ireland, it just seemed to create more trouble than it prevented. 

We need to spend much more money on intelligence. We need more people involved in surveillance. I'll not point the finger today but the way our police force has been run down nationally in the face of the terrorist threats over the last 10 years has been nothing short of scandalous.

Agreed, there is a political aspect to this, it needs discussing how each party intends to deal with the situation.

[#trump#team#losers#]

23,000 on the watch list!!! Deport them to a desert island and there familys and the mosque leaders and let them play with bombs guns and knives amongst themselves!!! 

[JBiz]

Any body got anything to back this 23,000 figure up? I did a five minute look and could find no credible source.

"anyone taking their side, as most muslims will do, proving their allegiance to their medieval ideology instead of the civilised society we live in should promptly suffer the same fate."

Eye for an eye is it? Thousand year old solution to a modern problem?

"as most Muslims will do"... say no more.

[AllRoverAsia]

21 minutes ago, Biz said:

Spot on. Will say it again and again and again; these barbaric nut jobs do not represent a Religious group.

Their sole purpose and aim to is to create fear and division in western cities, and we give it to them on a plate in many ways. What does Jihad translate to? Holy war... why do we give this minority what they seek, a world against their religion? I repeat, these scum bag extremists might look and sound like Muslims, but it's like tarnishing Christianity because of the KKKs actions, as they use a Christian "religious effigy"

These atrocities often happen after each other - as the police swoop in, some planned attacks get pushed forward. Thank god for the emergency services response.

The amount of people I've seen (including the president of the US) push agenda on the internet using these deaths, has made me sick. Actually using this as justification for not being concerned about climate change! 

"Terrorism is the use of violence or threat of violence especially against civilians in the pursuit of political aims, religious, or ideological change." From wiki.

So let's not give them their intention. Of creating mass fear, anger and retaliations abroad that cost more innocent life.

 

Have you read up on Sayyid Qutb and his influence on Bin Laden, Al Queda and derivatives. The underlying tone is Sunni extremism looking for a world under Sharia Law. Non believers in the eyes of these fanatics can be Muslim just as easily as Christian or any other grouping.

To this day most terrorist funding still comes in it's $billions each year from major donors in the ME and individuals or groups in Saudi and Qatar top the pile.

[DE.]

1984 really should be mandatory reading for kids in schools. Possibly Brave New World too. 

[perthblue02]

What I was surprised with was the number of racist tweets on twitter 5 and 10 minutes after the attack started that were tweeting all Mulims are not terrorist and things in similar vain. Seems they do this thing quite a lot within minutes of any attack

Nobody knew at that stage who the attackers were and no eye witness accounts had surfaced by then ! 

 

So time for a big internment camp on Dartmoor containing all those on the watch list to asses them?  obviously needs to built to hold double that size for future use (probably within 3 months) , obviously with guest quarters for all the ambulance chasing human rights lot and politicians that will be crying foul. Or are people quite happy to leave these suspected terrorists to run free?. Would not cost much just built to a standard of the dark ages that these people want to live in.

I am pretty sure any true muslim would not object and would be only to happy to continue to provide intelligence leading to getting this extremist scum that are carrying out a war in the name of their religion off the streets. 

As for numbers Biz I have struggled finding that 23,000 number from a reliable source , I have seen a number of 3000 confirmed though.

 

 

[DE.]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

To this day most terrorist funding still comes in it's $billions each year from major donors in the ME and Saudi and Qatar top the pile.

Indeed, America's good friend Saudi Arabia and Qatar who are hosting the next world cup. Strange times.

[#trump#team#losers#]

http://www.westmonster.com/23000-jihadists-in-uk/

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, DE. said:

1984 really should be mandatory reading for kids in schools. Possibly Brave New World too. 

Animal Farm too. I had read all 3 by age 12