[Archived] Manchester Bombing

[blueboy3333]

Donald J. Trump

 

✔ @realDonaldTrump

Do you notice we are not having a gun debate right now? That's because they used knives and a truck!

12:43 PM - 4 Jun 2017

 

If they'd had ten minutes of firing guns into packed pubs the death toll would have been hundreds, you thick tw@t.

[Audax]

Unless, equally, security at the pubs had guns as well. Not sure of the animus against Trump here, he's been warning about this.

[Audax]

UK and Canada have both had large weapons sales to the Saudis in the past two years. 

To me, the Salafist teachings are what are dangerous, I'm not sure of the threat the Iranians pose.  I'm no expert. The Shias seem milder though.

 

[Husky]

1 hour ago, perthblue02 said:

Serious question , why not? obviously there will be more security, but these extreme nutters are quite happy to kill people of the supposedly same religion.and are doing so on a daily basis in various parts of the world.

Mostly Sunnis here in the UK by all accounts - you know the 'slightly less tolerant than the other kind of Muslim' - largely funded by Saudi Arabian money - The kind the UK and US governments love. Don't expect anything to get any better. There will be a few security measures to make sure innocent people are a bit less free, but the real problems will still be able to freely enter and train in 'war-zones' before returning to the UK with their new found skills.

If there was a more even Sunni-Shia split one could certainly foresee the UK soon becoming like all those other backwards Islamic countries. It's already heading that way. But for now it will just be attacks on 'fun-zones' where the vast majority of people that hang out there are non-Muslim.

[AllRoverAsia]

49 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

Unfortunately our entire way of life and stability depend on the rule of law and due process. If you abridge it to start penalising people merely on suspicion then we're all @#/?. It will create a precedent which will then be used in future to suppress political opposition a la Russia, Venuzeula etc. The judicial system has existed for hundreds of years for a reason.

What's really dispiriting is so many are willing to chuck out civil liberties in the face of what are historically low level terror incidents. We are nowhere near the severity seen in the 70s-90s with the IRA campaign .

I would suggest those losing their heads pull themselves together and grow a bit of backbone.

As for solutions - it's pretty straightforward.  Continue to strengthen the detection and prevention systems, carry on as normal. The situation is no more serious than it was in the 70s-90s, and significantly better than during the world wars. We'll get through it.

No you will not.

You will have to learn to live with increasing extreme terrorism said to be in the name of Islam.

Their end game is an Islamic WORLD under Sharia Law.

This story has a long long way to run. Someone earlier compared it to the NI troubles and would pass sooner or later. It won't.

Seeds are now sown in most countries of the World and sooner or later the radicalisation will gather pace.

Meanwhile what we view as atrocities will become more a regular occurence.

At local country level how do you stop a small number of people with knives and tin cans tied around their waists driving into people or jumping out to stab them. You can't. Same as a committed lone bomber is difficult to identify and track let alone stop.

A stiff upper lip will not stop it.

 

 

[AllRoverAsia]

19 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

By far the biggest victims of ISIS, Al Quaeda etc are Muslims. Thousands and thousands are killed every year in Afghanistan, Iraq, Nigeria, Syria, Turkey etc etc. Sunnis, Shi'ites.

It's pure murderous terrorism irrespective of colour or creed. 

Anyone of any race creed or colour is a target for Qubtism

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Audax said:

Unless, equally, security at the pubs had guns as well. Not sure of the animus against Trump here, he's been warning about this.

You want some blokes on steroids carrying guns too? FFS!!!

 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Batman. said:

Serious question, how are old you?

You might actually take the coveted award for the thickest person we've ever had on here.

He's just asking his mum

[perthblue02]

Just now, Husky said:

Mostly Sunnis here in the UK by all accounts - you know the 'worst kind of extreme Islam' - largely funded by Saudi Arabian money - The kind the UK and US governments love. Don't expect anything to get any better. There will be a few security measures to make sure innocent people are a bit less free, but the real problems will still be able to freely enter and train in 'war-zones' before returning to the UK with their new found skills.

If there was a more even Sunni-Shia split one could certainly foresee the UK soon becoming like all those other backwards Islamic countries. It's already heading that way. But for now it will just be attacks on 'fun-zones' where the vast majority of people that hang out there are non-Muslim.

A cricket match is a "fun zone" for some, live on TV big audience, my question was in response to your post "Well there certainly won't be any kind of 'attack' at Edgbaston cricket ground today." 

I might be wrong but assumed that you made that statement because there would be a large number of people of Indian and Pakistani descent in attendance, was I wrong? hence my response regarding extreme terrorism.

And yes I am aware of the various different strains of Islam and its differing interpretations having lived and worked in Blackburn for 40 years.

[Audax]

Trump is being scapegoated by liberals since their way has been shown to be a failure.  He's called most things right, I'm rather neutral on gun laws. 

Obama like liberals want, wanted to flood the US with refugees,  shows what a disaster that was. Leftists ways are down in flames, so they are going to strike out with their usual crudity, sorry boys, I don't say any of this to offend.

For the record, in 2009, the Sri Lanka cricket team was targeted in Pakistan. It doesn't seem that long ago, maybe there is some other instance.  https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/mar/03/sri-lanka-cricket-terrorist-attack-pakistan

 

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Audax said:

UK and Canada have both had large weapons sales to the Saudis in the past two years. 

To me, the Salafist teachings are what are dangerous, I'm not sure of the threat the Iranians pose.  I'm no expert. The Shias seem milder though.

 

And those Salafist teaching are being pumped into millions of kids at Schools across the World on a daily basis from early childhood.....schools funded by Sunni majority countries.

[Husky]

Just now, perthblue02 said:

A cricket match is a "fun zone" for some, live on TV big audience, my question was in response to the quote "Well there certainly won't be any kind of 'attack' at Edgbaston cricket ground today." 

I might be wrong but assumed that you made that statement because there would be a large number of people of Indian and Pakistani descent in attendance, was I wrong? hence my response regarding extreme terrorism.

And yes I am aware of the various different strains of Islam and its differing interpretations having lived and worked in Blackburn for 40 years.

Yep- pretty much! Edgbaston is full of Muslims today - a Western music concert is pretty much Muslim free.

Islam is the problem; I don't suppose we'll be seeing a Ramadan truck revenge attack by 'Mr non-Islamic' any time soon. Though it's a very easy thing to do.

 

 

[tomphil]

43 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

By far the biggest victims of ISIS, Al Quaeda etc are Muslims. Thousands and thousands are killed every year in Afghanistan, Iraq, Nigeria, Syria, Turkey etc etc. Sunnis, Shi'ites.

It's pure murderous terrorism irrespective of colour or creed. 

As horrible as it sounds that needs making clear over here as the perpetrators and their sympathisers try and portray it as us v them, muslim v non muslim, white v non white. That's obviously what they want over here but it covers over the truth about their barbaric beliefs.

Really though this has to come from muslim leaders over here as I just can't help but get the impression whilst a lot don't condone these horrific actions they won't condemn them either presumably because they always assume it's retaliation for innocent slaughter of their brothers abroad. They need to know whose really doing a lot of it imo.

[Batman.]

Just now, Audax said:

Trump is being scapegoated by liberals since their way has been shown to be a failure.  He's called most things right, I'm rather neutral on gun laws. 

Obama like liberals want, wanted to flood the US with refugees,  shows what a disaster that was. Leftists ways are down in flames, so they are going to strike out with their usual crudity, sorry boys, I don't say any of this to offend.

For the record, in 2009, the Sri Lanka cricket team was targeted in Pakistan. It doesn't seem that long ago, maybe there is some other instance.  https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2009/mar/03/sri-lanka-cricket-terrorist-attack-pakistan

 

"Their way has shown to be a failure."

It's this black and white thinking by small minded idiots like yourself that cause these problems to arise in the first place. It's the same kind of thinking possessed by terrorists, the kind of thinking that won't tolerate complexity of thought or adaptation intercultural relations.

Tell me a "far right way" that has ever worked? Remind me again, from which side of thought was it that caused the bloodiest conflict the world has ever seen? Just how stupid are you to forget this? Every single political system and ideology has its flaws as not one system can cater for all of the inhabitants of a particular land-space. Trump has done nothing but add to interracial tension, intolerance and hatred, and by pigeon holing voters he has knocked his particular country, as well as the rest of the civilised world, back a few decades.

We are fighting against an ideology, not a group of people. This is "defeat the source and the consequence will die" stuff. The sooner people take account of this BLINDING OBVIOUS fact, the better. "Chuck them all in the sea, execute them all, bla bla bla...." 

It beggars belief just how unevolved some of you lot are. Such totalitarian solutions will only continue to breed terrorists, unless a complete holocaust of potential converts is carried out. This is a complex issue, with complex solutions. That's why many of you, with your incredibly simple brains, cannot grasp the concept, and see why your solutions are so unbelievable ridiculous. 

[joey_big_nose]

14 minutes ago, AllRoverAsia said:

No you will not.

You will have to learn to live with increasing extreme terrorism said to be in the name of Islam.

Their end game is an Islamic WORLD under Sharia Law.

This story has a long long way to run. Someone earlier compared it to the NI troubles and would pass sooner or later. It won't.

Seeds are now sown in most countries of the World and sooner or later the radicalisation will gather pace.

Meanwhile what we view as atrocities will become more a regular occurence.

At local country level how do you stop a small number of people with knives and tin cans tied around their waists driving into people or jumping out to stab them. You can't. Same as a committed lone bomber is difficult to identify and track let alone stop.

A stiff upper lip will not stop it.

 

 

The police have foiled dozens of these attacks and deaths from terrorism in the UK today are a fraction of what they were in the 70s,80s or 90s.

Keeping a sense of proportionality based on the facts is preferable from every angle to jumping off the deep end based on speculation.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

The police have foiled dozens of these attacks and deaths from terrorism in the UK today are a fraction of what they were in the 70s,80s or 90s.

Keeping a sense of proportionality based on the facts is preferable from every angle to jumping off the deep end based on speculation.

It's to be hoped that police and other protectors are fully supported and resourced by future Government so that their success rate gets even better.

Foiling attacks is a short term gain for UK security and to be applauded.

The incident rate will increase with some big events on UK shores sadly imo.

I have no easy answer against the underlying insidious ideology but it's not going away.

Eventually it will be the masses of ordinary peace abiding residents of all colours and religion of the UK who suffer by curtailing of personal freedoms.

1984

[joey_big_nose]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

It's to be hoped that police and other protectors are fully supported and resourced by future Government so that their success rate gets even better.

Foiling attacks is a short term gain for UK security and to be applauded.

The incident rate will increase with some big events on UK shores sadly imo.

I have no easy answer against the underlying insidious ideology but it's not going away.

Eventually it will be the masses of ordinary peace abiding residents of all colours and religion of the UK who suffer by curtailing of personal freedoms.

1984

I agree that there will be more attacks. 

What seems inevitable is the tracking of personal information by the government and security agencies will become vastly more extensive. If the security services had more access they could make big strides in detection. The right information systems could make carrying out a terrorist attack much more difficult.

What will be crucial is figuring how to regulate the capture and use of that data so it does not impact freedoms, or be manipulated to exercise corrupt power.

[perthblue02]

Raids and arrests in Barking, Billy Brag and red wedge on the way round to sing songs showing the error of their ways ,understanding of their struggle  and have a cup of tea.

 

[#trump#team#losers#]

Get signing #savebritain#

https://wg341.infusionsoft.com/app/page/deport-islamists

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, AllRoverAsia said:

It's to be hoped that police and other protectors are fully supported and resourced by future Government so that their success rate gets even better.

Foiling attacks is a short term gain for UK security and to be applauded.

The incident rate will increase with some big events on UK shores sadly imo.

I have no easy answer against the underlying insidious ideology but it's not going away.

Eventually it will be the masses of ordinary peace abiding residents of all colours and religion of the UK who suffer by curtailing of personal freedoms.

1984

That's because there are no easy answers.

[blueboy3333]

Salahudee Jayabdeen, 40, said one of the suspected attackers had been forcibly removed from a local mosque called Jabir Bin Zyad after questioning the Imam during a service.

He said he had seen the man in the area for the past year.

"It was about two months ago and he started questioning what the imam was saying. I can’t remember exactly what it was about but was asked to leave. He didn’t want to and was forcibly taken out"

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/03/london-bridge-closed-after-serious-police-incident-live

 

This seems to be consistent with what was reported about other terrorists, namely that they start to disagree publicly with the teachings of the Imam at the mosque.  This could be a sign of radicalisation and therefore the mosques have a duty of care and responsibility to report this to the local bobby/community leaders which then needs to filter to the security services. This requires a unified approach which requires funding of the police, funding of the security services and total cooperation of muslim community leaders. These atrocities could be prevented if people of all faiths worked together. The first step is bobby's on the beat who become trusted within the communities in which they work. Perhaps a drive to recruit Muslim officers. Anything that helps root out these inhumane, murderous animals before they strike again.

This horror isn't going to go away for a very long time. Demonising whole communities is NOT going to help in any way.

 

[Mike E]

2 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It's times like this that you realise how thin the veneer of civilisation is in some people. I can see how the cattle trucks and  gas chambers came about in Nazi Germany now.

Watch 'Look who's back', about Hitler reappearing in modern Germany. Everyone thinks he's hilarious, but eventually they start saying 'actually this guy makes sense'. Good exploration of psychology, mob mentality, and persuasive oration.

[DE.]

14 minutes ago, joey_big_nose said:

I agree that there will be more attacks. 

What seems inevitable is the tracking of personal information by the government and security agencies will become vastly more extensive. If the security services had more access they could make big strides in detection. The right information systems could make carrying out a terrorist attack much more difficult.

What will be crucial is figuring how to regulate the capture and use of that data so it does not impact freedoms, or be manipulated to exercise corrupt power.

Too late unfortunately.

Our Patriot Act is imminent, I think, and people will probably cheer for it.

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, Batman. said:

"Their way has shown to be a failure."

It's this black and white thinking by small minded idiots like yourself that cause these problems to arise in the first place. It's the same kind of thinking possessed by terrorists, the kind of thinking that won't tolerate complexity of thought or adaptation intercultural relations.

Tell me a "far right way" that has ever worked? Remind me again, from which side of thought was it that caused the bloodiest conflict the world has ever seen? Just how stupid are you to forget this? Every single political system and ideology has its flaws as not one system can cater for all of the inhabitants of a particular land-space. Trump has done nothing but add to interracial tension, intolerance and hatred, and by pigeon holing voters he has knocked his particular country, as well as the rest of the civilised world, back a few decades.

We are fighting against an ideology, not a group of people. This is "defeat the source and the consequence will die" stuff. The sooner people take account of this BLINDING OBVIOUS fact, the better. "Chuck them all in the sea, execute them all, bla bla bla...." 

It beggars belief just how unevolved some of you lot are. Such totalitarian solutions will only continue to breed terrorists, unless a complete holocaust of potential converts is carried out. This is a complex issue, with complex solutions. That's why many of you, with your incredibly simple brains, cannot grasp the concept, and see why your solutions are so unbelievable ridiculous. 

Thats why you are a pontificating twit

[AllRoverAsia]

8 minutes ago, DE. said:

Too late unfortunately.

Our Patriot Act is imminent, I think, and people will probably cheer for it.

Government already knows all about each of us.

This thread will be already monitored due to terms of reference.

Multiply by 100++ under a Patriotic Act.

Welcome to World Order.........apart from the bombs and stabbings and......