[Archived] Manchester Bombing

[Guest]

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but the suicide bomber was 22 years old and born in Manchester, from Libyan parents.

22... There seems to be a pattern in the age range when it comes to these atrocities.

[Dunnfc]

Just now, Phil T said:

Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but the suicide bomber was 22 years old and born in Manchester, from Libyan parents.

22... There seems to be a pattern in the age range when it comes to these atrocities.

These fundamentalists are never the older types are they.

Libyan national by the way...

[DE.]

47 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

These fundamentalists are never the older types are they.

Libyan national by the way...

Plenty of older fundamentalists. They just get the more impressionable younger generation to do their dirty work. 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

There is simply no place in a civilised Western Society for Muslim Extremists and their twisted beliefs.Their warped ideology stands against everything we as free Westerners cherish,love and value.

Isis,Taliban and Al Qaeda...eradicate the lot of them from the face of the Earth.

How many more Candle lit vigils?

[Batman.]

Once again our scum contaminated rating chasing Murdoch led media has immortalised a terrorist my plastering his face across the front of their news channels and websites.

It really fills me with anger. Who is it benefitting? Only his supporters.

[Batman.]

2 hours ago, Steve1 said:

Old or young male or female it doesn't matter

Trump has the right idea 

Losers losers losers

Team trump ???

Trump's speech was embarrassing. Only American cretins could hear a politician refer to terrorists as "losers" and then woop about it.

[Kamy100]

13 hours ago, Baz said:

Kamy,  is anything being done about the proliferation of extremist stuff on Social media. In my opinion that's a key problem, starting with the Palestine / Israel stuff and escalating to the west's backing of Israeli military military action on Muslims. It starts out marginally biased to draw in susceptible people.

That is one area that needs addressing and urgently.  The people who want to spread the extremist ideologies start as you say by showing what is happening in Palestine and take it from there.  What the communities and government agencies need to root out are the "recruiters".  These are shadowy figures who identify, recruit and fill young people minds with these ideologies which lead to what happened on Monday night. 

[Dunnfc]

21 hours ago, Biz said:

How many bombs killed innocents in the UK during the nineties? Did we blame politics and religion or a small number of hateful scum hell bent on getting a reaction? What about Brevik? What about Richard Poplowski? Timothy Mcveigh et al. 

Child rapists aren't exclusively Muslim either. I'm assuming you watched "Three girls" and it's the most recent example- what about Saville? What about the BBC? What about Scottish and British youth football? What about catholic priests?!?!? The problem is with a small percentage of PEOPLE not a religion, when this small percentage of people (who are absolutely vile) see a way to abuse innocents, they will. The Rochdale problem was worsened because of tension between race in the area- do I think the police would've brushed it under the carpet without fear of further unrest? I'm not blaming them or the BNP for stirring it up, but there are factors beyond "Muslim men don't respect women or children and are "kiddy rapists".

Do you know anything about curriculum bar a few Daily Mail examples? You do know some Christian schools, C of E and/or Catholic still exist too? Why is religion allowed in schools in such way? I can't accept that "this is a Christian country", because that's justifying xenophobic comments about people practicing other religions here.

Siddiq Khan won't talk to Israel? What does that have to do with anything bar your own personal opinion on what the problems are out there? 

You've "had enough of Islam" and that sums up the side you are on. You can't look at it objectively, because you've already made your opinion about a different denomination of the same original books and stories. Are you aware of the book of genesis? Abraham? Is the bible just as responsible?

 

To simplify years of bubbling humanitarian issues down to "ban Islam" makes you sound completely out of touch. The added element of "if you don't like this country, then leave" is the cherry on the cake for the point I am making, how do you know these people aren't born here?!

Stop using atrocities to peddle your own fears and intolerance of other people, whatever religion, race, colour creed etc. It's completely insensitive to the dead, and as I and others said, if you took specific action against all Muslims you'd create more problems.

 

“Biz” I think my opinions are totally justified, personally I think your reek of sheer nativity!!! Anyone on here can turn a post around but how about offering some thoughtful debate as opposed to your reciting. Let’s be clear the faith is a substantial issue in this country posing more problems than it helps, it isn’t a minority it’s quite the opposite although you only have to look at our own Kamy and the friends we probably both mutually have to realise not everyone can be cast upon and these are fantastic people in some quarlets. Brivik and co we accepted that as a problem, these were condemned by every corner of the globe, we realise they targeted a specific type of person. The IRA were not even a blip on ISIS and Al-Queeda before we even start that debate which has a political agenda not pushing a religious one.

 

For a start in schools it’s not just the issue of the curriculum and Islamic teachings being used and then bullied onto children, it is the general degrading of British students and this countries morals and beliefs, these attributes are what has made this country in the past such an attractive place to live. Not an issue in schools? These are just a few I’ve come across having had an ex fiancé working in one of these so knowledge of it at first hand, a bit more than a daily mail article no? I think there is a parliament paper on this too so it’s widely been acknowledged by central government as an ISSUE. As for your quip on CofE (Official Religion of UK) schools, you mean the ones which teach ethics and morals of British society and not those of a draconian and degrading Middle Eastern nature? Whose country is this “Biz”?

 

Oldham School - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/19/second-islamist-trojan-horse-scandal-feared-oldham-headteacher/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/headteacher-forced-work-home-after-9850625

Birmingham School - https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jun/23/trojan-horse-park-view-academy-misinformation-nctl-tribunal

Another Birmingham School - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11381925/Another-Birmingham-school-put-in-special-measures-amid-Trojan-Horse-fears.html

London School - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2772423/Up-dozen-schools-London-face-new-Trojan-Horse-inquiry-claims-Muslim-extremists-imposing-hardline-views-classrooms.html

Bradford School - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10806862/City-fights-new-Trojan-Horse-Islamic-schools-plot.html

 

Now my advice have a read and take some time out to digest those links above, and tell me again we don’t have a problem in schools, we quite clearly do, these examples are just the tip of the iceberg. Now Kamy posted making a point about mosques in Blackburn and the reform they are going through, that’s great but where is the acceptance, the apologies and the accountability what preceded beforehand? To move on from a situation, you need to recognise you have an issue! Have a look at the amount of mosques which are a centre usually for preaching this terror nonsense, its substantial in quantum.  I fear Kamy’s positive outlook on educating those may fall on deaf ears given these mosques are usually a breeding ground in most cases of terror reported. Would it not be beneficial to update the Quaran would that not garner a wide audience or impact?

 

Siddiq Kahn is an issue, Islam in politics is an issue as there is evidenced corruption and bribes switching place here. You seem to not recognise that this major of London excludes Israel as a country and won’t recognise it due to his Islamic beliefs, do you find that acceptable in a 21^st Century? Is this how you or I was brought up? This is a man in a serious influential role conducting this nonsense, this is an ISSUE. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4178392/Farage-accuses-London-Mayor-Sadiq-Khan-hypocrisy.html Why don’t you look at this evidencing his links to the Muslim brotherhood, Al Queda, ISIS and his thoughts that we should live with terror > http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-27/ .

 

Now this excludes the fact we have MP’s like the Rochdale man who watched on in horror at the child rapists then even provided a character reference supporting these monsters in court! http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/councillors-regret-for-backing-man-convicted-688683 Or Naz Shah Bradford MP and the anti semetic jibes she was suspended for > https://www.desiblitz.com/content/asian-mp-naz-shah-suspended-for-antisemitism-remarks

 

As for the Rochdale cover up let’s not act like this is the only Islamic child sexual abuse issue in the last year to hit the news;

29 people in court in Kirklees, Huddersfield - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4405262/27-men-2-women-court-child-sex-neglect-case.html   

8 more in Rotherham - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rotherham-grooming-gang-rapist-bannaras-hussain-was-caught-abusing-girl-in-police-station-car-park-a6897936.html

12 in Bradford - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3437252/Twelve-men-repeatedly-gang-raped-abused-vulnerable-teenage-schoolgirl-saw-utterly-worthless-jailed-total-140-YEARS.html

12 more in Keighley - http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/keighley-grooming-case-arrogant-asian-gang-of-12-jailed-for-130-years-1-7722032

 

There was around 1500 cases reported alone in Rotherham which when you consider it isn’t exactly renown for being a muslim town unlike; Burnley, Bradford, Blackburn, Preston, Luton e.g is a complete worry let alone the police and child society covers ups. This is not a minority and it is a huge widespread national issue. It’s not race related as in 1997 the Sikh community had to launch an aggressive campaign after their girls were initially targeted, it’s not a new problem 20 years on this is still persisting on a big scale. I don’t see any condemning from the Muslim society on this what so ever. I think Catholics acknowledge their own past with child scandals, however most Muslims don’t appear to accept this or the fact they’ve a problem with it? I don’t remember the catholics being on this scale. I also don’t remember the bible accepting this as normal - http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/women_slaves.htm I don’t remember the messenger (Prophet Mo) of the bible getting married at 6 and having sexual relations with a 9 year old, is that not pervese in any age? Is this to blame for thinking it’s acceptable? Should the text of the quaran be updated to reflect?

 

My views on Islam being out of touch? How can anyone respect a religion when a substantial part what make them up can’t even appear to respect themselves nor any other religion such as Sikhism or our very own? They cost the UK taxpayer in unproductivity 13 billion a year alone, that’s incidentally the figure we contributed to the EU per annum. The Quaran refers to non-muslims as those should pay for muslims to live (The Jiyza), is this the issue? At the moment 53% of muslim men do not work whilst 76% of muslim women don’t work. Why is this? Is this not a problem if you’ve got around 4.5 million of your population being of an Islamic faith? I’m truly shocked by that stat myself, more should be done in there communities to address this balance as it’s far from reflecting society. Sharia law not recognised by the justice systems respectively in operation in the EU and UK are being operated in communities and moques. Insurance is being eroded in favour of Takaful. This isn't acceptable, and I said if they don't want to live in our society then please leave but do not bring these ideologies and laws and ways here as they are not welcome.

 

Your last line of taking action against muslims would equate to making more problems suggests you deep down accept or acknowledge that there are issues of this faith, yes or no?

 

Quote

 if you took specific action against all Muslims you'd create more problems.

 

[JBiz]

Haven't got time to reply fully now, I'm at work mate but will later. I'd look up the part about 50% of all Muslims being unemployed though, that sounds a complete lie.

One thing I would say, all terrorist atrocities are (99%) of the time caused by men.

Does that mean all men are murdering scum, all men are the species of war?

[roverandout]

Just now, Biz said:

Haven't got time to reply fully now, I'm at work mate but will later. I'd look up the part about 50% of all Muslims being unemployed though, that sounds a complete lie.

One thing I would say, all terrorist atrocities are (99%) of the time caused by men.

Does that mean all men are murdering scum, all men are the species of war?

Are you a bit dim or just an islamic terrorist sympathiser?

[Batman.]

Just now, roverandout said:

Are you a bit dim or just an islamic terrorist sympathiser?

Nobody is confusing you for an intellectual heavyweight mate. Go and rot elsewhere if you're incapable of putting together any sort of argument.

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Are you a bit dim or just an islamic terrorist sympathiser?

Another attempt to take us down a path that none of us want. If you want to insult me, why not take it to DM, then I can ignore you without others having to put up with this crap. 

[Dreyski]

Just now, Steve1 said:

Trump is a legend 

Batman is American is he a cretin?? 

Loser ?

You are Steve Moss and I claim my £5.

[Batman.]

4 minutes ago, Steve1 said:

Trump is a legend 

Batman is American is he a cretin?? 

Loser ?

Oh dear. 

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, Dreyski said:

You are Steve Moss and I claim my £5.

I don't think he is. Steve Moss never used to post on the Rovers section very much, but this guy has, and has done since March.
Not sure I can take seriously anyone who thinks 'Trump is a legend', mind.

[JBiz]

5 hours ago, Dunnfc said:

“Biz” I think my opinions are totally justified, personally I think your reek of sheer nativity!!! Anyone on here can turn a post around but how about offering some thoughtful debate as opposed to your reciting. Let’s be clear the faith is a substantial issue in this country posing more problems than it helps, it isn’t a minority it’s quite the opposite although you only have to look at our own Kamy and the friends we probably both mutually have to realise not everyone can be cast upon and these are fantastic people in some quarlets. Brivik and co we accepted that as a problem, these were condemned by every corner of the globe, we realise they targeted a specific type of person. The IRA were not even a blip on ISIS and Al-Queeda before we even start that debate which has a political agenda not pushing a religious one.

 

For a start in schools it’s not just the issue of the curriculum and Islamic teachings being used and then bullied onto children, it is the general degrading of British students and this countries morals and beliefs, these attributes are what has made this country in the past such an attractive place to live. Not an issue in schools? These are just a few I’ve come across having had an ex fiancé working in one of these so knowledge of it at first hand, a bit more than a daily mail article no? I think there is a parliament paper on this too so it’s widely been acknowledged by central government as an ISSUE. As for your quip on CofE (Official Religion of UK) schools, you mean the ones which teach ethics and morals of British society and not those of a draconian and degrading Middle Eastern nature? Whose country is this “Biz”?

 

Oldham School - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/02/19/second-islamist-trojan-horse-scandal-feared-oldham-headteacher/

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/headteacher-forced-work-home-after-9850625

Birmingham School - https://www.theguardian.com/education/2016/jun/23/trojan-horse-park-view-academy-misinformation-nctl-tribunal

Another Birmingham School - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11381925/Another-Birmingham-school-put-in-special-measures-amid-Trojan-Horse-fears.html

London School - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2772423/Up-dozen-schools-London-face-new-Trojan-Horse-inquiry-claims-Muslim-extremists-imposing-hardline-views-classrooms.html

Bradford School - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/10806862/City-fights-new-Trojan-Horse-Islamic-schools-plot.html

 

Now my advice have a read and take some time out to digest those links above, and tell me again we don’t have a problem in schools, we quite clearly do, these examples are just the tip of the iceberg. Now Kamy posted making a point about mosques in Blackburn and the reform they are going through, that’s great but where is the acceptance, the apologies and the accountability what preceded beforehand? To move on from a situation, you need to recognise you have an issue! Have a look at the amount of mosques which are a centre usually for preaching this terror nonsense, its substantial in quantum.  I fear Kamy’s positive outlook on educating those may fall on deaf ears given these mosques are usually a breeding ground in most cases of terror reported. Would it not be beneficial to update the Quaran would that not garner a wide audience or impact?

 

Siddiq Kahn is an issue, Islam in politics is an issue as there is evidenced corruption and bribes switching place here. You seem to not recognise that this major of London excludes Israel as a country and won’t recognise it due to his Islamic beliefs, do you find that acceptable in a 21^st Century? Is this how you or I was brought up? This is a man in a serious influential role conducting this nonsense, this is an ISSUE. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4178392/Farage-accuses-London-Mayor-Sadiq-Khan-hypocrisy.html Why don’t you look at this evidencing his links to the Muslim brotherhood, Al Queda, ISIS and his thoughts that we should live with terror > http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-03-27/ .

 

Now this excludes the fact we have MP’s like the Rochdale man who watched on in horror at the child rapists then even provided a character reference supporting these monsters in court! http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/local-news/councillors-regret-for-backing-man-convicted-688683 Or Naz Shah Bradford MP and the anti semetic jibes she was suspended for > https://www.desiblitz.com/content/asian-mp-naz-shah-suspended-for-antisemitism-remarks

 

As for the Rochdale cover up let’s not act like this is the only Islamic child sexual abuse issue in the last year to hit the news;

29 people in court in Kirklees, Huddersfield - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4405262/27-men-2-women-court-child-sex-neglect-case.html   

8 more in Rotherham - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/rotherham-grooming-gang-rapist-bannaras-hussain-was-caught-abusing-girl-in-police-station-car-park-a6897936.html

12 in Bradford - http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3437252/Twelve-men-repeatedly-gang-raped-abused-vulnerable-teenage-schoolgirl-saw-utterly-worthless-jailed-total-140-YEARS.html

12 more in Keighley - http://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/crime/keighley-grooming-case-arrogant-asian-gang-of-12-jailed-for-130-years-1-7722032

 

There was around 1500 cases reported alone in Rotherham which when you consider it isn’t exactly renown for being a muslim town unlike; Burnley, Bradford, Blackburn, Preston, Luton e.g is a complete worry let alone the police and child society covers ups. This is not a minority and it is a huge widespread national issue. It’s not race related as in 1997 the Sikh community had to launch an aggressive campaign after their girls were initially targeted, it’s not a new problem 20 years on this is still persisting on a big scale. I don’t see any condemning from the Muslim society on this what so ever. I think Catholics acknowledge their own past with child scandals, however most Muslims don’t appear to accept this or the fact they’ve a problem with it? I don’t remember the catholics being on this scale. I also don’t remember the bible accepting this as normal - http://www.answering-islam.org/Authors/Arlandson/women_slaves.htm I don’t remember the messenger (Prophet Mo) of the bible getting married at 6 and having sexual relations with a 9 year old, is that not pervese in any age? Is this to blame for thinking it’s acceptable? Should the text of the quaran be updated to reflect?

 

My views on Islam being out of touch? How can anyone respect a religion when a substantial part what make them up can’t even appear to respect themselves nor any other religion such as Sikhism or our very own? They cost the UK taxpayer in unproductivity 13 billion a year alone, that’s incidentally the figure we contributed to the EU per annum. The Quaran refers to non-muslims as those should pay for muslims to live (The Jiyza), is this the issue? At the moment 53% of muslim men do not work whilst 76% of muslim women don’t work. Why is this? Is this not a problem if you’ve got around 4.5 million of your population being of an Islamic faith? I’m truly shocked by that stat myself, more should be done in there communities to address this balance as it’s far from reflecting society. Sharia law not recognised by the justice systems respectively in operation in the EU and UK are being operated in communities and moques. Insurance is being eroded in favour of Takaful. This isn't acceptable, and I said if they don't want to live in our society then please leave but do not bring these ideologies and laws and ways here as they are not welcome.

 

Your last line of taking action against muslims would equate to making more problems suggests you deep down accept or acknowledge that there are issues of this faith, yes or no?

 

 

As promised;

 

Firstly can I say, it's generally Christmas time when I reek of "sheer nativity" but if you mean naivety, what do you base this on? Is it because I have an opinion that differs to you "let's blame a group" mentality? 

Also, not just anyone can turn a post around. You can - you have a semblance of respect for the discussion obviously, it's just a shame those two who share your views can't help but be insensitive and/or use this atrocity and others to push a message of hate. Unfortunately they devalue any points made.

"It isn't a minority"- this term is wrong. If you think the majority of Muslims want you dead for being an "unbelieving kuffar @#/?", then you're sadly mistaken. It's just your own fear, lack of tact and ignorance that makes you think this. Absolute paranoia.

Brevik and the others aren't "accepted" - quite the opposite. We accept that they are idiots, nutjobs and mass murderers, their individual religions and race is irrelevant. If we focused on this, we'd be adding to their intention - to create tension, fear et al. It's the definition of terrorism.

Try telling people in Northern Ireland, Manchester, Warrington, Birmingham that IRA meant nothing or is just a "blip" compared to ISIS. You've made the mistake of using your own personal opinion to quantify how serious this crime is compared to others.

The Trojan horse stuff - it's not exactly what I'd describe as the key issue in education at the moment. I am aware of the idiots trying to force this crap into schools but it's a minority. If you want a discussion about the REAL problems that education faces, religion, integration and a secular system are all below funding issues, changing assessments, ofstead being unfit for purpose etc etc.

I'm British. I was born here, and I have no interest in religion at all. I've never been educated in a religious school (bar 5 years in a primary Methodist school strangely enough, after moving house) but I have no problem with morals/ethics. You are insinuating that Muslim teachers or schools cannot teach standard ethics, I'm not sure what British values and culture have to do with it? Unless you are suggesting death and "kiddy fiddling" is part of Muslim culture, which is a complete fallacy. Draconian and degrading middle eastern nature? 

How difficult is it accept that a percentage of ALL society treats others like @#/?, and it's got nothing to do with their origin and/or book?!? Whose country is this? Now you are starting to sound like a nationalist, which would explain your inability to accept that the reason for these problems is deeper than immigration and a different culture.

What makes this soil anymore mine than someone born in Madagascar? If I want to live anywhere, why shouldn't I? 

Muslims need to distance themselves from these atrocities and problems, not accept them and apologise. The Libyan bloke involved in this for example, what could the Muslim community of Britain have done to stop this path?

Moving on needs to happen, but not from a certain group you hold responsible. Moving on needs to be everyone, unified against terror- responding with unity not more segregation. 

As for the rest, I'm stupified by a few comments  you've made. I can't see how the statistics on unemployment add up either. Your ignorance on "updating the Quran" speaks absolute volumes. Perception is everything. Changing it just gives more opportunities to twist minds in different ways. 

Siddiq Khan "is an issue"? Where is this evidence of election fraud? Is it any worse than what the CPS failed to prosecute the conservatives for? Does it even exist? Khan was democratically elected - to steal a famous phrase on here "can't you accept democracy!!" I read the farage daily mail article, what a complete tool Nigel is. The quote was "part and parcel" of living in a city in modern times. That doesn't mean "accept it" (unless you wish to bend his words to suit your argument) and it certainly doesn't mean he wants it. The fact you used that says a lot about the desperation you have to prove yourself correct, it takes 30 seconds to find three other stories on that with differing viewpoints.

Throwing examples at me but ignoring the same issues by non Muslims? What does that say about this whole charade? The Rochdale example highlights what racial tension or a lack of integration can do. The BNP unwittingly contributed to the cover ups and whilst I accept certain Asian gentleman ended up getting away with it for years, it's hardly an indictment of an entire religion. It's deeper than just "oh he reads that book, he must a be pedo".. Notice you've said nothing about the systematic raping of children by BBC employees, the covered up scandals in football or any other of the countless examples when HUMANS TREATED OTHER HUMANS LIKE SCUM!!!

The final parts about scripture just aren't worth replying to. Your views on Islam are more idiotic and ignorant than I could've even imagined. Our very own? This is not a country of exclusive religion. Great Britain is about multiculturalism, globalism and tolerance of viewpoint. At least on my eyes.

Sooner the nationalist "it's a Christian country" brigade die off and allow the sanity of a secular identity to manifest, the better. 

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Steve1 said:

Both ! 

We allowing this to stand these days then? I'm a terrorist sympathiser? 

You don't possess the intelligence to deserve free speech.

[Dreyski]

43 minutes ago, Mike E said:

I don't think he is. Steve Moss never used to post on the Rovers section very much, but this guy has, and has done since March.
Not sure I can take seriously anyone who thinks 'Trump is a legend', mind.

I don't think I was being entirely serious. Mr Moss was at least capable of writing coherent thoughts, even if he had similar thoughts about the sitting POTUS.

[Amo]

Islam needs reform. This isn't just the white man saying this, there's a small number of outspoken Muslims who feel exactly the same, but even they find their efforts disregarded by the religious authorities. We're not just talking about terrorism here, either, we're talking about honour killings, genital mutilation, misogyny and all the barbaric practices that Islam has to answer for. The problem, however, with an Islamic reformation is that the Quran is deemed the infallible final word of God. Apparently it isn't up for argument.   

 

[MarkBRFC71]

2 hours ago, Steve1 said:

Both ! 

Well, your posts have proven you're definitely one of them ... I'll let you figure out which.

[Mike E]

The issue with 'reforming the Quran' is that nobody has ever clamoured for reforming the bible. Are we a nation that believes gay people should be killed by stoning, on behalf of God?

Clearly, we are not. Equally, it is very clear that the 99.9% of Muslims in the UK don't believe in killing children 'for Allah'.

[JBiz]

Just now, Amarillo said:

Islam needs reform. This isn't just the white man saying this, there's a small number of outspoken Muslims who feel exactly the same, but even they find their efforts disregarded by the religious authorities. We're not just talking about terrorism here, either, we're talking about honour killings, genital mutilation, misogyny and all the barbaric practices that Islam has to answer for. The problem, however, with an Islamic reformation is that the Quran is deemed the infallible final word of God. Apparently it isn't up for argument.   

 

The final part of that only applies to certain extremist sects of the people who practice the religion. From my experience, the original text has many contradicting elements, similar to original versions of Torah, old testemant etc.

They are stories from a different time. FGM is an example of something that just makes my blood curl but you won't solve that by reforming the religion, you'll only stop it by educating those who can put a stop it. It's no coincidence that many archaic practices exist in thirds world countries! 

The problem overall with the direction of this, no religion can answer for a crime, it's committed by individuals or networks. Let's stop giving credence to this idea that they are driven by a book. You have no problem describing LGBT people as "mentally ill", why is is such a problem for these murderous @#/?s?

 

[JBiz]

Just now, Steve1 said:

??? your boring me now

 

And? 

[JBiz]

No coincidence that "terrorist sympathiser" is a well used buzz word these days when you won't find a copy of the Sun printed without it in, since Corbyn was chosen as party leader.

[Glenn]

Right, it's a VERY emotive subject and people are hurting, so I'm going to let some of the personal insults slide this once, but it's a one time warning.

... and before anyone accuses me of threatening that to promote my own agenda, I want to make it clear, it's not because of what you're discussing, only how you're discussing it.