[Archived] Mowbray stays as manager

[den]

19 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

classic post

Havent I already said I wasn't happy and impress by the formation yesterday.

Nothing wrong with my team and lots of teams play it at this level and it would cause lots of teams problems with it pace, skill and tricky plus we could counter attack must quickly than we did yesterday. we need to play at a fast tempo and press high up the pitch instead of sitting deep and playing at slow tempo

Just carry on the needless insults towards as per usual. glad to see nothing changes

great post and post of the season. agree 100%

 

shouldn't happen cos people like you would abuse it by dislike every sensible post that disagree with your agenda

You cant keep sacking managers and not giving them time. Rome wasn't build in a day.

Rovers need to give Mowbray time. It will take longer than a few weeks for players to settle in, tactics to be understood by the players, etc.

In football, there is far too many sacking of managers without given them proper time and patience. I used to laugh at the sacking manager culture of Italian football but by the influx of foreign owners we have see it come to our football.  

So you would have stuck with either Kean or Coyle?

[booth]

6 minutes ago, den said:

So you would have stuck with either Kean or Coyle?

Going off his posting history, yes.

[Stuart]

19 minutes ago, Biz said:

 

Stuart- isn't it better to use previous football examples, Ferguson being the prime one (however unlike our own example it is) where they considered potting him early into his Man Utd career and he went on to be Sir...

Maybe a more pertinent one for us is Hughes? Didn't start well, given half a season and started to really improve?

Im sure there are countless examples of clubs in lower leagues starting badly and finishing well, you don't need to bring in some random (to borrow a phrase) "straw man" analogy to make a point.

If you think sacking Mowbray two games into a new season is a good plan, that's completely fine by me but I couldn't agree with it. I couldn't disagree more. Even Coyle got 10 games from me, and whilst I still expect the decision making above TM to be ludicrous, it's still a bit daft (imo) to be so reactive.

Say we did get a new man in tomorrow, he loses the next two and we get stuffed by Burnley... would he need chopping too? 

Bringing up Ferguson is about the stupidest example people us. I bet it has kept plenty of managers in work for longer than they should have.

You've missed my point though. Taking into account his time at Coventry, his games in the Championship for us and his tactics at the start of this season, my trust in him is almost gone. He is not a League One manager. He needs to be higher up the leagues where his philosophy suits the standard.

We are going to be out muscled in most games this season. It's our Achilles heel. We need to have more about us and we don't. Too many lightweights and players who go missing. You can hear every other League One manager telling his players "they don't like it up em" and we cannot rely on referees to protect us.

Question is: have we made our bed and now have to lie in it, or is a different approach required? We needed to bounce back this season or we are going to be in this division for years (if we are lucky).

Interesting thing that my lad said to me today: "well, we can't blame Venkys for the start this season, can we?". I have my own thoughts (obviously) but it's an interesting one. He has been allowed to bring in his own players and impose is own style (which he seems to be struggling to do). So surely the buck stops with Mowbray at this point?

I didn't think he was the right appointment last season and I got a lot of stick when he ended up getting a few results. Ultimately my gut feeling (that he wasn't the right man for the job) was proven right and we were relegated. My gut tells me that everything he is trying to do is the wrong thing for this division. I won't be shouting Mowbray Out any time soon but he needs to start to show some experience and get a grip of this group. Any bad eggs need shipping on even if they have only just arrived.

A simpler formation needs to be employed. If he continues with Plan A for this next three games and we lose then the knives will well and truly be out.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

One of our major problems is we seem to specialise in signing " bad eggs ". Too many big time Charlie's or guys who couldn't give a toss and have no pride or self respect. I want to see a couple of players brought in who'd kick their grannies to win a game.

[roverandout]

6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

I've ignored you for months cos you are constantly digging basically every posts. You are obsess by me. I'm fed up with you and all your BS. Leave me alone. This messageboard is going down hill cos of posters like you. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

7 minutes ago, den said:

So you would have stuck with either Kean or Coyle?

firstly neither should have been appointed in the first place.

We all know how Kean kept his job for so long until Shebby came in.

On Coyle, shouldn't have been appointed last summer. was plenty of other options out there like Warnock, Holloway, Keith Hill(who wanted the job), Chris Wilder, Gareth Ainsworth.

Coyle should have been sacked much early then he was. when he was sacked I was at work. Me and work collegues who are Rovers fans very shocked and surprise cos of when it happened and timing.

[blueboy3333]

2 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Coyle should have been sacked much early then he was. when he was sacked I was at work. Me and work collegues who are Rovers fans very shocked and surprise cos of when it happened and timing.

You didn't think he'd be sacked when you were at work?!

[Eddie]

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

Christ. We are back at the start of Bowyer's tenure again. Give him time. A window, two windows, a season, three windows.

Worse, people were saying exactly the same when Coyle was appointed.

Mowbray is not a League One manager. He struggled to get results in the Championship and we were relegated (granted not all his fault). His style of play is already looking like not being suited to this league, and the players look clueless.

Tell you what, get in a manager who knows this league and has a track record of success and give them that time to build instead of Rovers never admitting they might have made a mistake. 

But instead we will just blindly back whoever is in the hot seat because "the next manager could be worse".

Control, Alt, Delete and restart - every single @#/? season.

Not at all, but we also have to recognise that you can't fix a complete mess in only 6/7 months. On top of that, managers do need time to put together their own squad of players and implement their own tactics. 

There seems to be a collective agreement amongst supporters here now that our dislike for our owners means that we can turn our backs on every other aspect of the club as soon as it isn't running smoothly. 

It doesn't work like that. Managers need time. New signings need time. 

Mowbray might be the wrong man for the job, he might be the perfect man for the job, the fact is we simply haven't seen enough to decide. There's been good and bad and a whole lot in-between. 

Give him time and see where we stand. Otherwise, if we stick to the approach you are suggesting, we will sack another manager, bring another one in (who knows who would want the job at this point), he would have to deal with players he doesn't know and try and implement his own system. That would take time. He wouldn't be given time because he isn't 'right'. He would be sacked. 

Talk about copy paste. 

[JacknOry]

37 minutes ago, arbitro said:

In that case he has signed the wrong type of player. In 180 minutes now players have looked uncomfortable in his systems which are at times unfathomable and we are only watching. How did the positions Whittingham played in yesterday fit into any system. I spoke to a friend who has the inside track at Cardiff and he said he couldn't recall Whittingham playing in them positions in ten years there. It was almost that he was shoehorned into the team but so ineffectual it was embarrassing for him and the manager/head coach or whatever his title is.

Ive a few titles for him after he ruined my birthday with one of most embarrassing of all time, i'd get banned though.

If he is blaming the players instead of taking some responsibility for his formation it kind of shows that maybe he aint "the nice bloke" he is often portrayed. Either that or he is not all that smart after all, as who doesnt play two up top at home? Two dmf at home and full backs as wing backs?

A five man defence at home, two defensive midfielders, its shocking. Almost as if we were setup to contain or park the bus, at HOME to Donacaster Rovers who were in league 2 last season. 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

26 minutes ago, 47er said:

What happened to "walking this league"?

It's now the "walking dead".

[Gav]

28 minutes ago, 47er said:

What happened to "walking this league"?

I posted a thread 12 months ago asking if Rovers fans in general lacked football knowledge, I should have said do posters on this site!

The numbers of posts claiming we'd walk the league was laughable, absolutely clueless, football manager players, not living in the real world.

Now the same posters are calling for the managers head

 

 

[Hasta]

2 hours ago, RV Blue said:

The squad is more than good enough to win this league and a competent manager could do it easily.

Arrrrrgh. Stop it FFS.

Aside from Mulgrew, which players are too good for this league?

[den]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

firstly neither should have been appointed in the first place.

We all know how Kean kept his job for so long until Shebby came in.

On Coyle, shouldn't have been appointed last summer. was plenty of other options out there like Warnock, Holloway, Keith Hill(who wanted the job), Chris Wilder, Gareth Ainsworth.

Coyle should have been sacked much early then he was. when he was sacked I was at work. Me and work collegues who are Rovers fans very shocked and surprise cos of when it happened and timing.

Well that's fine, but it goes against your last post saying that managers aren't given enough time. It depends simply on whether they're showing signs of taking their club forwards or backwards.

[RV Blue]

11 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Arrrrrgh. Stop it FFS.

Aside from Mulgrew, which players are too good for this league?

Most of them have played in the championship for the majority of their careers, there is a reason for that.

[Athlete]

31 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

firstly neither should have been appointed in the first place.

We all know how Kean kept his job for so long until Shebby came in.

On Coyle, shouldn't have been appointed last summer. was plenty of other options out there like Warnock, Holloway, Keith Hill(who wanted the job), Chris Wilder, Gareth Ainsworth.

Coyle should have been sacked much early then he was. when he was sacked I was at work. Me and work collegues who are Rovers fans very shocked and surprise cos of when it happened and timing.

Did you think Rovers would wait till you finished work ha ha 

Also you never wanted Mowbray then you championed a Dof structure.. You don't help yourself Chaddy 

That formation yesterday was a shambles and it was also remarked by a few ex pros sat behind me yesterday that it looked like the players didn't know where TM wanted em 

[frosty]

4 hours ago, Eddie said:

We are reach a point where our supporters are becoming as much of a problem as our owners. 

 

A decent post overall but I honestly cannot believe I've just read this sentence.

[Hasta]

26 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

Most of them have played in the championship for the majority of their careers, there is a reason for that.

Wrong. Most of them haven't. 

And, aside from Evans and Feeney,  the ones that have are players whose abilities are now seriously on the wane. And let's not forget Feeney got Bolton relegated.

 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, Hasta said:

Wrong. Most of them haven't. 

And, aside from Evans and Feeney,  the ones that have are players whose abilities are now seriously on the wane. And let's not forget Feeney got Bolton relegated.

 

 

He got them relegated? I can't say he was that responsible... 

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Not at all, but we also have to recognise that you can't fix a complete mess in only 6/7 months. On top of that, managers do need time to put together their own squad of players and implement their own tactics. 

There seems to be a collective agreement amongst supporters here now that our dislike for our owners means that we can turn our backs on every other aspect of the club as soon as it isn't running smoothly. 

It doesn't work like that. Managers need time. New signings need time. 

Mowbray might be the wrong man for the job, he might be the perfect man for the job, the fact is we simply haven't seen enough to decide. There's been good and bad and a whole lot in-between. 

Give him time and see where we stand. Otherwise, if we stick to the approach you are suggesting, we will sack another manager, bring another one in (who knows who would want the job at this point), he would have to deal with players he doesn't know and try and implement his own system. That would take time. He wouldn't be given time because he isn't 'right'. He would be sacked. 

Talk about copy paste. 

You are talking in generics, Eddie. "Managers need time".

My perspective is that based on his time in this division he is not the right person. On that basis, 'more time' is simply 'more rope'. He hasn't won in his last 12 League One games. Yet, Russell Slade took over in September and those same players won 4, drew 1 and lost 1 of the next 6. Yes, Slade was ultimately unsuccessful in halting the slide but it suggests that the players and Mowbray were not on the same wavelength.

If you think Mowbray is the right man then fair enough, you would want to give him time and we will have to agree to disagree. My opinion is based on what I've seen during Mowbray's time at Rovers and the lack of influence of his players and a lack of leadership from the likes of Mulgrew and Graham, and even Whittingham - who you would expect to be head and shoulders above the rest.

For me, he has three games to turn things around. Promotion has to be the aim this season - anything else is failure. Third place and losing in the play-offs would be respectable but ultimately still failure.

We do not have time to bed in clever systems, when football is a very simple game - especially at this level.

[Speedie Dived]

1 hour ago, Gav said:

I posted a thread 12 months ago asking if Rovers fans in general lacked football knowledge, I should have said do posters on this site!

The numbers of posts claiming we'd walk the league was laughable, absolutely clueless, football manager players, not living in the real world.

Now the same posters are calling for the managers head

 

 

Spot on. We had posters who were literally salivating over the fact we were just signing players, irrelevant of quality. We have signed a lot of league one standard of players.

Cuts off the pitch, no real investment on the pitch, league one will remain our home for a few years. 

[tomphil]

I don't think many are calling for him to be sacked at all, no way do I want that we just want him to pull his finger out and realise patience will only last so long these days at Rovers because it's the groundhog day club.

Unlike previous gaffers even under these lot he doesn't have the luxury of saying they were better than us because they signed x,y,z for a million pounds. 

If we'd drawn both games or lost 1 drawn 1 we'd still be moaning but it wouldn't be verging on hysterical in most quarters, even losing both in a different manner wouldn't. We always ship bad goals we are used to that but we are handing games to the opposition now so there is bound to be concern and it won't take 10 games this season to figure out if it's going to be a disaster or not I don't think.

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

1. Bringing up Ferguson is about the stupidest example people us. I bet it has kept plenty of managers in work for longer than they should have.

2. You've missed my point though. Taking into account his time at Coventry, his games in the Championship for us and his tactics at the start of this season, my trust in him is almost gone. He is not a League One manager. He needs to be higher up the leagues where his philosophy suits the standard.

3. We are going to be out muscled in most games this season. It's our Achilles heel. We need to have more about us and we don't. Too many lightweights and players who go missing. You can hear every other League One manager telling his players "they don't like it up em" and we cannot rely on referees to protect us.

Question is: have we made our bed and now have to lie in it, or is a different approach required? We needed to bounce back this season or we are going to be in this division for years (if we are lucky).

4. Interesting thing that my lad said to me today: "well, we can't blame Venkys for the start this season, can we?". I have my own thoughts (obviously) but it's an interesting one. He has been allowed to bring in his own players and impose is own style (which he seems to be struggling to do). So surely the buck stops with Mowbray at this point?

I didn't think he was the right appointment last season and I got a lot of stick when he ended up getting a few results. Ultimately my gut feeling (that he wasn't the right man for the job) was proven right and we were relegated. My gut tells me that everything he is trying to do is the wrong thing for this division. I won't be shouting Mowbray Out any time soon but he needs to start to show some experience and get a grip of this group. Any bad eggs need shipping on even if they have only just arrived.

A simpler formation needs to be employed. If he continues with Plan A for this next three games and we lose then the knives will well and truly be out.

1. Stupid compared to some random accountancy comparison that has absolutely no relevance? I agree the scenario is rather different but I'm not the one suggesting he's potted two games into a new season.

2. I'm in absolutely no doubt that confidence in him should be falling through the floor, and that disregards last season based on the mess he inherited. That's not the "point" I'm missing, the point remains - sacking him now is absolute madness. Nothing changes that Stuart. It's ridiculous to even consider it imo.

3. I agree that it may be unfolding infront of our eyes. I'm as shocked as you probably are by Whittingham, Mulgrew, Ward and Grahams performances so far - our key experience underperforming massively suggests something quite untoward or at least worrying! This isn't something we disagree on; A few of our squad look like they believe their own hype and/or prefer to avoid the general rough and tumble of league 1.

4. Your lad has it spot on. You can't blame venkys really this season. They put us here ofcourse, ignoring their hand in our plight is as daft but we aren't hamstrung by their decisions currently, we are hamstrung by a manager who seems to be struggling setting us up.

I congratulate you on "smelling the coffee" before the rest of us (if he continues to drag us downwards) but we both need him to wake the **** up and get this club out of this division.

If we lose another 3 in a row, I'll be sharpening my kitchen devils along with you but after two? I won't be shifted on my viewpoint!  

[martonrover]

4 hours ago, Gav said:

A third division club in free fall is only ever going to attract very average managers and very average players and fans need to understand this, far to many still have illusions of grandeur.

The word is out, Rovers are a basket case of a club, Ewood Park is a managerial grave yard, avoid at all costs.

Just twelve months ago, Warnock was ready to take the job (the decision to go for the cheapo option led directly to the latest step of our decline).

The fact is that Mowbray has been backed. He actually has less excuse for failure than Coyle.

My own preference, once we knew we would be playing in League One, was for either someone with a track record in this division, (see Bolton), or a young, upcoming guy whose star could potentially rise.

Obviously, we can no longer attract the calibre of candidate as when we were a Premier League or even decent Championship club.

However, with the right offer and a little imagination, (this is why you need a real CEO), we could still make a decent appointment.

All this comes down to Venkys, but does not excuse the rubbish Mowbray's team served up yesterday. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, martonrover said:

Just twelve months ago, Warnock was ready to take the job (the decision to go for the cheapo option led directly to the latest step of our decline).

The fact is that Mowbray has been backed. He actually has less excuse for failure than Coyle.

My own preference, once we knew we would be playing in League One, was for either someone with a track record in this division, (see Bolton), or a young, upcoming guy whose star could potentially rise.

Obviously, we can no longer attract the calibre of candidate as when we were a Premier League or even decent Championship club.

However, with the right offer and a little imagination, (this is why you need a real CEO), we could still make a decent appointment.

All this comes down to Venkys, but does not excuse the rubbish Mowbray's team served up yesterday. 

Just listening to GMR regarding the Wigan v Bury game. Ritchie Wellens talking a lot of sense about this league. Apparently Paul Cook has come in at Wigan and banished the negative vibes hanging over from last season. A relatively young and unknown manager but a guy who isn't used to losing.

[Stuart]

22 minutes ago, Biz said:

1. Stupid compared to some random accountancy comparison that has absolutely no relevance? I agree the scenario is rather different but I'm not the one suggesting he's potted two games into a new season.

2. I'm in absolutely no doubt that confidence in him should be falling through the floor, and that disregards last season based on the mess he inherited. That's not the "point" I'm missing, the point remains - sacking him now is absolute madness. Nothing changes that Stuart. It's ridiculous to even consider it imo.

3. I agree that it may be unfolding infront of our eyes. I'm as shocked as you probably are by Whittingham, Mulgrew, Ward and Grahams performances so far - our key experience underperforming massively suggests something quite untoward or at least worrying! This isn't something we disagree on; A few of our squad look like they believe their own hype and/or prefer to avoid the general rough and tumble of league 1.

4. Your lad has it spot on. You can't blame venkys really this season. They put us here ofcourse, ignoring their hand in our plight is as daft but we aren't hamstrung by their decisions currently, we are hamstrung by a manager who seems to be struggling setting us up.

I congratulate you on "smelling the coffee" before the rest of us (if he continues to drag us downwards) but we both need him to wake the **** up and get this club out of this division.

If we lose another 3 in a row, I'll be sharpening my kitchen devils along with you but after two? I won't be shifted on my viewpoint!  

I'm not the one saying he should be potted after two games either. I've said he has three more to turn it around.

Three more consecutive League defeats (I'm giving him the Bumley game because I expect to lose) and I don't see how he can cling on to his job.

But it's 12 L1 games without a win for Mowbray so he starts with that baggage.

I only mentioned my early concerns because I had my doubt rammed down my throat - particularly from "Jim".

Thing is, if we aren't blaming Venkys then the buck stops with Mowbray. What I do find interesting is that when Bowyer was struggling Parsonblue - someone whose opinion I frequently disagree with but ultimately respect greatly - blamed the players. He seems to be laying the blame squarely with Mowbray's tactics this time out as being overcomplicated and confusing the players (I paraphrase). If he is less than convinced then you know something is up.

It seems patently obvious that there is a bad influence in the camp - possibly that Mowbray dealt with that yesterday at the expense of the match. The right thing to do potentially but how he deals with player reaction to his tactics will make or break him. Can he back down and be more simple or will pride precede a fall - with players continuing to undermine.