[Archived] Mowbray stays as manager

[arbitro]

Just now, Blue blood said:

Absolutely - a few draws would make the table and results much more palatable. However, I fear this highlights another trait of this team - we're very boom or bust. When the plan works it works, when it doesn't we don't have plan B a way of getting back into games. This is really odd as we have a load of different options on the bench.

The piece below is another of Mowbrays annoying interviews which indicate to me that there isn't a plan B. The way to beat teams who come to defend in numbers is to get in behind so he starts with the one dimensional Conway and Bennett. Conway always looks to come inside into heavy traffic and I just don't see Bennett as an offensive enough player to get that far forward. Chapman was a breath of fresh air when he came on and the chances/half chances we created pretty much came from him getting in behind the Wimbledon defence.

 

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2017/september/we-need-to-learn-how-to-break-teams-down/

[Blue blood]

1 minute ago, arbitro said:

The piece below is another of Mowbrays annoying interviews which indicate to me that there isn't a plan B. The way to beat teams who come to defend in numbers is to get in behind so he starts with the one dimensional Conway and Bennett. Conway always looks to come inside into heavy traffic and I just don't see Bennett as an offensive enough player to get that far forward. Chapman was a breath of fresh air when he came on and the chances/half chances we created pretty much came from him getting in behind the Wimbledon defence.

 

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2017/september/we-need-to-learn-how-to-break-teams-down/

I just read the article headline, and I can see why it gets people annoyed. It certainly did me! 

You mean to tell me that a team coming down from the Championship, with a vastly superior wage and transfer budget to other teams, and with internationals and top quality players in the squad, may have to break teams down? That teams will come and defend against us? Who'd have seen that one coming. 

Appreciate it was with a much better squad but it didn't take Souness that long to figure it out - switch to 3-5-2 and use the talent at our disposal. Also if TM is only planning for it now, on that alone he ought to be potted. I mean this is obvious, managerial basics stuff. So either he's started bulling in his interviews to fans and India (a route I loath our managers going down) or he's ridiculously behind the times and clueless. 

[Athlete]

TM has brought quite a few players to the club.. Well seeing as only four started on Saturday he either doesn't rate them or certain signees can't last 90 minutes.. Now if the 1st instance is the case why has he signed them... 

[Bigdoggsteel]

13 minutes ago, Athlete said:

TM has brought quite a few players to the club.. Well seeing as only four started on Saturday he either doesn't rate them or certain signees can't last 90 minutes.. Now if the 1st instance is the case why has he signed them... 

Sometimes it takes players longer to settle at a new club, we aren't unique in that. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

31 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

I just read the article headline, and I can see why it gets people annoyed. It certainly did me! 

You mean to tell me that a team coming down from the Championship, with a vastly superior wage and transfer budget to other teams, and with internationals and top quality players in the squad, may have to break teams down? That teams will come and defend against us? Who'd have seen that one coming. 

Appreciate it was with a much better squad but it didn't take Souness that long to figure it out - switch to 3-5-2 and use the talent at our disposal. Also if TM is only planning for it now, on that alone he ought to be potted. I mean this is obvious, managerial basics stuff. So either he's started bulling in his interviews to fans and India (a route I loath our managers going down) or he's ridiculously behind the times and clueless. 

We are missing an enforcer or 2 who would fight to give the likes of Chapman and Dack the space to create things. we are going to get bullied this season I think. I honestly can't think of a softer spine in the league than Mulgrew, Ward and Evans. In fairness to Smalwood he does get stuck in, but he can't do it all himself. 

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, Athlete said:

TM has brought quite a few players to the club.. Well seeing as only four started on Saturday he either doesn't rate them or certain signees can't last 90 minutes.. Now if the 1st instance is the case why has he signed them... 

TM thought we could play tippy tappy on the deck football to success in L1.

An odd view as he failed at that before in the same league. Also such an approach would be expected from a much more adventurous manager than TM.

As BDS says our CBs are too soft. That was pointed out many times on this MB. TM thinks he knows better. I hope that he is proven correct.

Prediction: If we lose Saturday and Wigan win tonight we will finish below Wigan this season.

[lraC]

2 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

TM thought we could play tippy tappy on the deck football to success in L1.

An odd view as he failed at that before in the same league. Also such an approach would be expected from a much more adventurous manager than TM.

As BDS says our CBs are too soft. That was pointed out many times on this MB. TM thinks he knows better. I hope that he is proven correct.

Prediction: If we lose Saturday and Wigan win tonight we will finish below Wigan this season.

Prediction, Wigan will win tonight and Shrewsbury are 2/1 against beating us on Saturday. Those odds must be taking into account our away from and in particular the wins as Bradford and Scunthorpe. Shrews are unbeaten, top of the league and are 2/1 at home! Wow.

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 minutes ago, lraC said:

Prediction, Wigan will win tonight and Shrewsbury are 2/1 against beating us on Saturday. Those odds must be taking into account our away from and in particular the wins as Bradford and Scunthorpe. Shrews are unbeaten, top of the league and are 2/1 at home! Wow.

So they are 2/1? Just shows how tight the league is. 

What were we against Wimbledon the weekend I wonder? 

[JBiz]

My knife isn't sharpened for TM, and this is why;

Football;

1. We've had a decent start, not great but not a disaster by the same stretch.

2. 4 wins in 7 over a season extrapolates to 26 wins, which as an early estimate is decent, considering Wigan had 24 wins in 2016 to win the league. The con to this, 3 defeats in 7 over a season isn't going to work to win the league, Wigan lost 7 when winning league in 2015. 

3. The performances overall are encouraging bar the two initial games. In our previous encounter, with AFCW, we created enough chances to win - and restricted the opposition to less. I think we will win 8 out of 10 of those games, this kind of opposition and performance. The con to this is we still have more gears to go through, definitely a question mark on how good we can be. 

4. The league will only really start to take shape after 10 games, and if we are within the top 6 or in touching distance at this time, I'd feel confident that our squad will grow into the season, the quality in depth for this level will trump teams around us. I hope we stay injury free, but I feel we've plenty of depth, including u23 to cope - whereas other teams will have slumps.

Ownership;

1. I hear that we will never recover till venkys leave, yet I also see a few already "Pasha-nat" about rolling the "Rao" dice again by changing manager.

For me, it's difficult to really comprehend changing manager with any confidence anymore. I think 2/3 of the previous choices are decent, but I don't think we'd ever get the calibre of manager who could almost "guarantee" instant promotion. Even someone proven at this level would deserve time to achieve it. Do we have time to give Keith Hill 3 years? Trying not to comprehend it really.

So overall, I think changing manager is more likely to give us less chance of promotion. Especially if we are top six, or in touching distance. I could understand it more if we are in the bottom half and/or in a big slump. 

[islander200]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So they are 2/1? Just shows how tight the league is. 

What were we against Wimbledon the weekend I wonder? 

I backed us at 1/2 with coral?

[Bigdoggsteel]

14 hours ago, islander200 said:

I backed us at 1/2 with coral?

Don't feel too bad. I did 5-0 at 60/1..

[lraC]

18 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So they are 2/1? Just shows how tight the league is. 

What were we against Wimbledon the weekend I wonder? 

We were 4/7 and Wimbledon were 4/1. After they scored Wimbledon were still 6/4 and evens at half time.

[Tom]

Feels like a big week for Mowbray coming up.

Away at the league leaders then a midweek home game v Rotherham and Saturday at home to Gillingham.

You have to think 7 points is the minimum needed in the situation we are in.

[JacknOry]

Okay my first post since the disappointment on Saturday - i forced myself not to come here as i knew what it would be like.

We dont seem to be able to do at home what we do away. Teams park the bus and we are clueless at breaking them down. We are not adventurous enough and need to be far more attacking/creative. Proper wingers are called for at home, Chapman needs to start but I dont know who we have on the otherside that could do the job. Dack also needs to play i feel - off a striker?

[Dunnfc]

1 hour ago, Suhail Slayer said:

3 more games before Tony's 10 game appraisal.

Already 10 points behind top (after 7 games !).

This season there is one objective... Top 2 = promotion

At the current trajectory Tony is failing to meet our objective.

Tony failed at Coventry and then walked.

Tony failed last season in his one objective which was to keep us up.

 

Now I don't expect Tony to walk or be sacked after 10 games.

The route problem is Venkys and another manager will fare no better.

 

However he is becoming part of the problem.

He will stabilise us into a safe third division club (similar to Bowyer before him in the second division).

The problem is this will be accepted by the minority of fans who still attend Ewood as long as we win a few games.

Meanwhile the majority of fans who are staying away will continue to feel apathy, sadness, anger [delete as appropriate].

Mike Cheston & Suhail Shaikh will both be very happy at a quiet Ewood with a split fan base but no protests and a quiet life.

Tony will not get us promoted - parts due to his own ability and partly due to the ownership - no chance - none - zilch

He is happy to take Venky rupees, have a job and play "on the grass" every day with the lads. Meanwhile, the supporters, the town, the local businesses all suffer.

 

"We got into the play offs and just missed out on promotion plus we got to go to some new grounds"... Some will say this was a successful season... NO - IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE

We must not accept anything less than guaranteed automatic promotion THIS SEASON

Some will happily accept almost getting in the play offs, then accept mid table, then accept just staying up on the last day.

That is how we ended up where we are now.

 

He will be judged after 10 games because it is important.

He will continue to be judged throughout the season.

 

200 %

[Bigdoggsteel]

Personally I would give him until the Fleetwood game. If we are outside the play-offs at that point, well then things clearly have not worked out. There are allowances for the team gelling etc, but there should also be demands for the squad we have and the amount of money spent(relative to League 1 clubs). I think it is a reasonable time frame. 27 points to play for.

Those fixtures are 

September

Shewsbury-Away

Rotherham-Home

Gillingham-Home

October

Blackpool-Away

Oldham-Away

Plymouth-Home

Portsmouth-Home

Wigan-Away

Fleetwood-Home

[martonrover]

1 hour ago, Suhail Slayer said:

3 more games before Tony's 10 game appraisal.

Already 10 points behind top (after 7 games !).

This season there is one objective... Top 2 = promotion

At the current trajectory Tony is failing to meet our objective.

Tony failed at Coventry and then walked.

Tony failed last season in his one objective which was to keep us up.

 

Now I don't expect Tony to walk or be sacked after 10 games.

The route problem is Venkys and another manager will fare no better.

 

However he is becoming part of the problem.

He will stabilise us into a safe third division club (similar to Bowyer before him in the second division).

The problem is this will be accepted by the minority of fans who still attend Ewood as long as we win a few games.

Meanwhile the majority of fans who are staying away will continue to feel apathy, sadness, anger [delete as appropriate].

Mike Cheston & Suhail Shaikh will both be very happy at a quiet Ewood with a split fan base but no protests and a quiet life.

Tony will not get us promoted - parts due to his own ability and partly due to the ownership - no chance - none - zilch

He is happy to take Venky rupees, have a job and play "on the grass" every day with the lads. Meanwhile, the supporters, the town, the local businesses all suffer.

 

"We got into the play offs and just missed out on promotion plus we got to go to some new grounds"... Some will say this was a successful season... NO - IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE

We must not accept anything less than guaranteed automatic promotion THIS SEASON

Some will happily accept almost getting in the play offs, then accept mid table, then accept just staying up on the last day.

That is how we ended up where we are now.

 

He will be judged after 10 games because it is important.

He will continue to be judged throughout the season.

 

Mowbray would not even be able to blame Venky's, as he's been well backed.

A decent manager would succeed at this level with the backing he's had.

If Mowbray were to be sacked, the problem we would have is the usual one - no empowered, competent CEO to make a decent appointment, (hence his own bizarre appointment & Coyle's before him).

And so it goes on.

 

[AllRoverAsia]

2 hours ago, Suhail Slayer said:

3 more games before Tony's 10 game appraisal.

Already 10 points behind top (after 7 games !).

This season there is one objective... Top 2 = promotion

At the current trajectory Tony is failing to meet our objective.

Tony failed at Coventry and then walked.

Tony failed last season in his one objective which was to keep us up.

Now I don't expect Tony to walk or be sacked after 10 games.

The route problem is Venkys and another manager will fare no better.

However he is becoming part of the problem.

He will stabilise us into a safe third division club (similar to Bowyer before him in the second division).

The problem is this will be accepted by the minority of fans who still attend Ewood as long as we win a few games.

Meanwhile the majority of fans who are staying away will continue to feel apathy, sadness, anger [delete as appropriate].

Mike Cheston & Suhail Shaikh will both be very happy at a quiet Ewood with a split fan base but no protests and a quiet life.

Tony will not get us promoted - parts due to his own ability and partly due to the ownership - no chance - none - zilch

He is happy to take Venky rupees, have a job and play "on the grass" every day with the lads. Meanwhile, the supporters, the town, the local businesses all suffer.

"We got into the play offs and just missed out on promotion plus we got to go to some new grounds"... Some will say this was a successful season... NO - IT IS NOT ACCEPTABLE

We must not accept anything less than guaranteed automatic promotion THIS SEASON

Some will happily accept almost getting in the play offs, then accept mid table, then accept just staying up on the last day.

That is how we ended up where we are now.

He will be judged after 10 games because it is important.

He will continue to be judged throughout the season.

Good post SS and not a photo in sight

Sadly, I think he will fail at that too (highlighted above), having already walked or, more unlikely, been sacked after failing to make the playoffs, and 'Operation Dumbdown' continues.

FTR I hope I'm wrong.

[Mike E]

Wasn't the prevailing opinion on here a minimum of 15pts from the first 30? Or am I misremembering?

Not necessarily saying it's 'good enough', but if we're in the top 6 after 10 games, that'll do for me. From there, however, we'd need to be kicking on and challenging the top 2 places.

[Dunnfc]

Defeat Shrewsbury and a competent board would publically release a vote of confidence instead we've got suhail and mike cheston.

[JHRover]

Just now, Dunnfc said:

 instead we've got suhail and mike cheston.

I don't even think we've got those any more. Suhail exists in name and a few photos only and conveniently cannot be directly linked to anything at the club. I do wonder how he is allowed to sit in the directors box at games if he isn't a director.

Cheston has gone quiet this summer after the embarrassment of last season so we've only got Mowbray now.

[RevidgeBlue]

21 hours ago, Biz said:

My knife isn't sharpened for TM, and this is why;

Football;

1. We've had a decent start, not great but not a disaster by the same stretch.

2. 4 wins in 7 over a season extrapolates to 26 wins, which as an early estimate is decent, considering Wigan had 24 wins in 2016 to win the league. The con to this, 3 defeats in 7 over a season isn't going to work to win the league, Wigan lost 7 when winning league in 2015. 

3. The performances overall are encouraging bar the two initial games. In our previous encounter, with AFCW, we created enough chances to win - and restricted the opposition to less. I think we will win 8 out of 10 of those games, this kind of opposition and performance. The con to this is we still have more gears to go through, definitely a question mark on how good we can be. 

4. The league will only really start to take shape after 10 games, and if we are within the top 6 or in touching distance at this time, I'd feel confident that our squad will grow into the season, the quality in depth for this level will trump teams around us. I hope we stay injury free, but I feel we've plenty of depth, including u23 to cope - whereas other teams will have slumps.

Ownership;

1. I hear that we will never recover till venkys leave, yet I also see a few already "Pasha-nat" about rolling the "Rao" dice again by changing manager.

For me, it's difficult to really comprehend changing manager with any confidence anymore. I think 2/3 of the previous choices are decent, but I don't think we'd ever get the calibre of manager who could almost "guarantee" instant promotion. Even someone proven at this level would deserve time to achieve it. Do we have time to give Keith Hill 3 years? Trying not to comprehend it really.

So overall, I think changing manager is more likely to give us less chance of promotion. Especially if we are top six, or in touching distance. I could understand it more if we are in the bottom half and/or in a big slump. 

Very good post. Imo it is essential we go up this season, just as it was the season after we were relegated from the Premier League. Changing managers every ten games or so is unlikely to be the answer to that  just as it wasn't then.

Unfortunately time is a luxury we dont have and if things clearly aren't working then it's self defeating to carry on down the same route for too long. However in an ideal world we probably need a period of stability under a decent manager of integrity who can build some reasonable foundations on the playing side of the Club with our own players after the turmoil and disruption caused by Paul "fill yer boots for 6 months" Lambert and Owen "I can't organise a defence" Coyle both of whom loaded us up with loan players and neither of whom seemed to have any regard for the long term health of the playing squad. 

So to summarise ideally we probably need a period of stability but need to chuck in a promotion while we're at it.

If it looks like that won't be possible under TM then the change will have to be made as all things being equal it looks as though we should be legitimately competing for automatic promotion especially once injuries and suspensions start to kick in.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Personally I would give him until the Fleetwood game. If we are outside the play-offs at that point, well then things clearly have not worked out. There are allowances for the team gelling etc, but there should also be demands for the squad we have and the amount of money spent(relative to League 1 clubs). I think it is a reasonable time frame. 27 points to play for.

Those fixtures are 

September

Shewsbury-Away

Rotherham-Home

Gillingham-Home

October

Blackpool-Away

Oldham-Away

Plymouth-Home

Portsmouth-Home

Wigan-Away

Fleetwood-Home

Another very good post. That would appear to be more than reasonable.

[Oldgregg86]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Personally I would give him until the Fleetwood game. If we are outside the play-offs at that point, well then things clearly have not worked out. There are allowances for the team gelling etc, but there should also be demands for the squad we have and the amount of money spent(relative to League 1 clubs). I think it is a reasonable time frame. 27 points to play for.

Those fixtures are 

September

Shewsbury-Away

Rotherham-Home

Gillingham-Home

October

Blackpool-Away

Oldham-Away

Plymouth-Home

Portsmouth-Home

Wigan-Away

Fleetwood-Home

I think that's a fair amount of time and ample time to get the wheels in motion and back on track. If not I think he has to go.  However as always with venkys you can't help but feel the better the devil you know. I shudder at the thought of who comes next

[tomphil]

Whoever the agents with fingers in pies and are able to whisper in the ears recommend comes next, a cheapo with odds of 25-1+, it's as simple as that really.

Zero planning or thinking outside the box just roll the dice their pals have in their hands and see which 2 match.