[Archived] Mowbray stays as manager

[tomphil]

3 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Do you have names or links?

Real name or alias ?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Tony Rover said:

IMO we need to put aside talk of a new manager for now. It'll be Christmas when we know if we need to make some serious changes. Hasn't been pretty so far but I think with a few little tweaks we can get promotion, if that's the play offs or automatic I'll take it. Tuesday will be a good test, sure there will be plenty with their knives ready. 

Tomorrow will be a big test of Mowbray's abilities, as will Saturday. 6 points is the target, 4 is an absolute minimum. We don't want to drop any further behind with another postponement on the horizon.

[JBiz]

5 minutes ago, gumboots said:

Isn't the point of a message board that we post our personal opinions?

 

9 minutes ago, Biz said:

Personal opinions? As in your personal opinion of me, not what I post. It's irrelevant. 

 

[Tony Rover]

Just now, islander200 said:

I'll be honest I'm losing patience with Mowbray but I want him to do well.It's not just the results,we look no closer to finding our best 11 or system.He spent heavily on Dack yet shoves him out left,doesn't know what to do with Whittingham, won't give any of our young lads a chance despite in my opinion the likes of Caddis and Williams being poor.Mowbray spoke about attacking attractive football,the football is terrible all sideways passing and no penatration. I wouldn't care lessential about the style of football if we where getting results.But I am struggling to see any positives from Mowbray reign so far

Watching us against Wimbledon was hard to stomach. Chapman has to start as it was only when he came on we had a little about us. I wish TM would bring a bit of talent up from the youth, I think a few deserve a chance to show what they can do. Even with all this I'm hoping in the back of my mind TM will see the light. It's his squad, I'm prepared to give them some time to gel. Talking about Dack, injury hasn't helped as well as a few others. I don't think TM's candle has blown out just yet. 

[chaddyrovers]

54 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

If Rigg is coming in as a DoF, it's clear that someone somewhere has lost confidence in Mowbray. Nixon says he's here part time at the minute, hopefully he's been watching our games and won't leave it too late to sack Mowbray if things carry on as they are currently. At least Rigg has definitely worked at decent sides, unlike Senior who just said he had.

No official announcement has been made by Club. Its a part timer advisor to Pasha according to Nixon at the minute. 

If he gets appoint DoF then we discuss it but too many people are getting too far ahead of themselves. 

On the lack of board. Its been like that since Venkys come in. They dont want a board of directors in place but just 3 or 4 directors whether active or not. Decisions are made by India by the owners. They have split Football and the admin side of the club into to 2 sections. Mowbray in charge of football and Cheston/Slivester in charge of admin at the club. All reported to Pasha who report to India. But we been through them time after time and to be quite frank we go around in circles.and nothing changes. Yes none of us would run it this way but nothing we can do to change it

[islander200]

Just now, Tony Rover said:

Watching us against Wimbledon was hard to stomach. Chapman has to start as it was only when he came on we had a little about us. I wish TM would bring a bit of talent up from the youth, I think a few deserve a chance to show what they can do. Even with all this I'm hoping in the back of my mind TM will see the light. It's his squad, I'm prepared to give them some time to gel. Talking about Dack, injury hasn't helped as well as a few others. I don't think TM's candle has blown out just yet. 

I want him to do well but we need to start seeing some sort of improvement and a plan fast.I'm hoping tomorrow night I will see Chapman start and Dack playing off Samuel.Would also be nice to see Travis brought in at right back and Tomlinson at least on the bench

[Athlete]

14 minutes ago, martonrover said:

Being an improvement on Coyle is the definition of feint praise.

Have Cardiff suddenly got sensible owners? 

No.

How's the manager, (who should've been ours), getting on there?

A decent, empowered director of football would probably not have appointed a guy who left his previous club at the bottom of the division below.

Good point... but may I add at a normal run club they don't go down the dof route as there's no need to unfortunately were not a normal run club 

If the nicko is correct then it is plainly obvious Mowbray will either be undermined or on his last legs unless we have the senior scenario were it took seven weeks to get rid of Coyle conveniently after the transfer window.. Or will we have to wait until the next available guy from the agency is ready and willing to take the role on.. 

My main worry is what happens if we don't get promoted this season.. All those who were hoodwinked and optimistic before the season started will they be taken in again.. Attendances will dip further and the likelihood of getting back will become more difficult under these twohats 

 

[blueboy3333]

1 minute ago, tomphil said:

Real name or alias ?

Either.

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Whilst we've had 7 years of venkys, and it's very easy for that to merge into one bad dream;

When you're talking about the "Venky-light", you're essentially giving credence to Nixons famous transfer stories, and if you look at the previous summer- you'd find it hard to prove the same issues happened when we've signed 12 players, some for an outlay.

Bringing in actual football experience above the manager to fill the cavernous vacuum! Makes sense to me, whatever his primary role. Perhaps finding a new manager might be one of his first jobs? 

I don't think it's giving credit to Nixons stories in the fact that it's simply true. I think Nixon has used that to throw about baseless rumours or used that as an excuse for why his "sources" were wrong. Haven't former staff alluded to the fact that it's almost impossible to reach Venkys let alone get an on-the-spot decision on whether or not to sanction a transfer?

Also Biz I really don't understand why you believe last summer was any different to the rest. In fact, it followed a similar pattern. We made some early additions, albeit this time for an outlay as you said, but then failed to follow up on those early signings with any meaningful activity. It all culminated in a few late signings pushed through that haven't really featured, albeit it's very early in the season. Has Hart even been in the first team squad yet? I don't think anyone can deny that after the first flurry of signings there was clearly not going to be any movement until a wage was offloaded, hence the Feeney transfer being followed by 3 quick incomings.

As for the outlay Venkys did this when we got relegated from the Premier League too. Aside from keeping our "better" players (although rumours suggest that Lenihan stayed due to the injury/no one would take Mulgrew and Graham because of wages) it wasn't really any different to the rest. You could also argue that there was no serious interest in our better players because, for the teams above us, they aren't any better than what they already have.

I don't disagree with the need for football experience. I just feel like this appointment is the wrong one. It certainly has a lack of confidence feel to it and I feel like additions at boardroom level are needed in other areas as opposed to a DoF, something that hasn't brought us success before. If Rigg comes in as DoF does TM become relegated to head coach again or does he remain the manager? Or will Rigg want his own manager to come in to accommodate the type of players he wants to sign? If so this will be yet another sacking of a manager so soon to a contract renewal resulting in another pay off - if there was more reasons to question this whole Rigg rumour needed.

35 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

How is it?? 

Clubs appoint people in different positions all the time 

How are you still not getting this despite having it explained several times by several different people?

This is precisely the same predicament we found ourselves in when trying to explain why we found Downing a less than pleasing addition to the squad among other discussions. You have to be on the wind up. 

42 minutes ago, Biz said:

It doesn't make any sense to simply make decisions on the guise of "looking" like a functional club.

From my perspective, I cannot fathom this idea the decisions are made with some level of sneaky plan between those who own the club. You speak as if it's a cunning game to hoodwink the supporters, but for what reason? Uproar is met with ignorance. Protests have been all but pointless in changing direction of the club. 

The owners aren't clever enough to organise such, or even remotely bothered about what you think about the them or the club. Heck, they are seemingly not even bothered about keeping supporters, because they've never changed tact despite seeing 10,000+ walk away.

For some bizarre reason also, these assumptions about Seniors intent, influence and his eventual sacking have become actual "facts" when not you, Tomphil or anyone else has ever provided an ounce of actual evidence to suggest he left for any other reason than "failing" to do the job.

When someone suggests that a new face around the club might be beneficial, with experience and expertise - you have to ask yourself a question "why do I bother supporting this club anymore" if I can turn that into "more bad news..."!

You call upon others for assuming but then assume that the owners aren't clever enough or bothered enough to appease fans for the reasons mentioned. I'd say that's a big assumption. After all, they can't be as stupid as some make out with the shear scale of their business empire. You don't become that successful by being hoodwinked time and time again by 'dodgy people'. There has to be something in this that benefits them or they'll simply dump their interests in it rather than bleed cash, like people keep saying they are doing.

[Athlete]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

No official announcement has been made by Club. Its a part timer advisor to Pasha according to Nixon at the minute. 

 

Part time advisor to Pasha FFS you just couldn't make it up... Rigg the next gravy train rider 

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

No official announcement has been made by Club. Its a part timer advisor to Pasha according to Nixon at the minute. 

If he gets appoint DoF then we discuss it but too many people are getting too far ahead of themselves. 

On the lack of board. Its been like that since Venkys come in. They dont want a board of directors in place but just 3 or 4 directors whether active or not. Decisions are made by India by the owners. They have split Football and the admin side of the club into to 2 sections. Mowbray in charge of football and Cheston/Slivester in charge of admin at the club. All reported to Pasha who report to India. But we been through them time after time and to be quite frank we go around in circles.and nothing changes. Yes none of us would run it this way but nothing we can do to change it

Where are you getting this information from? You talk like you know the way in which the club functions but how? Nobody else does, not even those that have worked there before.

How can he be a part time advisor to a person not officially employed by the club? On what capacity is he advising a man that has, as far as the official "Who's who" of the club has no say? Is Rigg now an "unofficial" board member? Are we the only club that operates with a football and admin board where the 'football side' of the board is completely unofficial? Are we the only club whose business model is to have 3/4 directors in place "active or not"? What you are claiming here is pretty serious in how the club is run - I'd like to know where you are getting this from.

We haven't been through this time after time because, quite frankly, whenever certain posters try and bring this topic into the foray it's usually met with the same "no conspiracy here, just ineptitude" but what's inept about hiring shadow directors, a shadow advisor to that shadow director, to be a shadow section of a split shadow board with no official capacity? That's not ineptitude, that's the definition of conspiracy. 

[martonrover]

6 minutes ago, Athlete said:

Good point... but may I add at a normal run club they don't go down the dof route as there's no need to unfortunately were not a normal run club 

If the nicko is correct then it is plainly obvious Mowbray will either be undermined or on his last legs unless we have the senior scenario were it took seven weeks to get rid of Coyle conveniently after the transfer window.. Or will we have to wait until the next available guy from the agency is ready and willing to take the role on.. 

My main worry is what happens if we don't get promoted this season.. All those who were hoodwinked and optimistic before the season started will they be taken in again.. Attendances will dip further and the likelihood of getting back will become more difficult under these twohats 

 

Agreed, but actual job title not important.

The devil will be in the detail.

If Rigg comes, will he have a major say / clout in regards to the manager and be able to make / action decisions?

[Athlete]

Just now, martonrover said:

Agreed, but actual job title not important.

The devil will be in the detail.

If Rigg comes, will he have a major say / clout in regards to the manager and be able to make / action decisions?

If he does come he'll have sold his soul to the devil... Part time advisor to Pasha 

[Tony Rover]

4 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

No official announcement has been made by Club. Its a part timer advisor to Pasha according to Nixon at the minute. 

If he gets appoint DoF then we discuss it but too many people are getting too far ahead of themselves. 

On the lack of board. Its been like that since Venkys come in. They dont want a board of directors in place but just 3 or 4 directors whether active or not. Decisions are made by India by the owners. They have split Football and the admin side of the club into to 2 sections. Mowbray in charge of football and Cheston/Slivester in charge of admin at the club. But we been through them time after time and to be quite frank we go around in circles.and nothing changes. Yes none of us would run it this way but nothing we can do to change it

Hate the way things are but I'm spent on anything changing soon. Personally I had two options open to me this season, walk away from football all together 'England's a shower and I'm sick of all the money at the top' or just try and focus on the football, mainly because of my son. Whoever is appointed will probably only upset TM and then we know where that goes. 

[tomphil]

All we have to draw on is the various same crap different day scenarios of the last 7 years. All have followed a similar path, all have been half hearted and all have ended in farce.

Yet  comparing to this is painted as making things up, assumption and conspiracy as if it's never happened.

FACT - We've had multiple appointments under the Venky regime and not one has made any difference, most have made things worse.

But let's not discuss it for fear it's jumping to conclusions.

[JBiz]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

I don't think it's giving credit to Nixons stories in the fact that it's simply true. I think Nixon has used that to throw about baseless rumours or used that as an excuse for why his "sources" were wrong. Haven't former staff alluded to the fact that it's almost impossible to reach Venkys let alone get an on-the-spot decision on whether or not to sanction a transfer?

Also Biz I really don't understand why you believe last summer was any different to the rest. In fact, it followed a similar pattern. We made some early additions, albeit this time for an outlay as you said, but then failed to follow up on those early signings with any meaningful activity. It all culminated in a few late signings pushed through that haven't really featured, albeit it's very early in the season. Has Hart even been in the first team squad yet? I don't think anyone can deny that after the first flurry of signings there was clearly not going to be any movement until a wage was offloaded, hence the Feeney transfer being followed by 3 quick incomings.

As for the outlay Venkys did this when we got relegated from the Premier League too. Aside from keeping our "better" players (although rumours suggest that Lenihan stayed due to the injury/no one would take Mulgrew and Graham because of wages) it wasn't really any different to the rest. You could also argue that there was no serious interest in our better players because, for the teams above us, they aren't any better than what they already have.

I don't disagree with the need for football experience. I just feel like this appointment is the wrong one. It certainly has a lack of confidence feel to it and I feel like additions at boardroom level are needed in other areas as opposed to a DoF, something that hasn't brought us success before. If Rigg comes in as DoF does TM become relegated to head coach again or does he remain the manager? Or will Rigg want his own manager to come in to accommodate the type of players he wants to sign? If so this will be yet another sacking of a manager so soon to a contract renewal resulting in another pay off - if there was more reasons to question this whole Rigg rumour needed.

You call upon others for assuming but then assume that the owners aren't clever enough or bothered enough to appease fans for the reasons mentioned. I'd say that's a big assumption. After all, they can't be as stupid as some make out with the shear scale of their business empire. You don't become that successful by being hoodwinked time and time again by 'dodgy people'. There has to be something in this that benefits them or they'll simply dump their interests in it rather than bleed cash, like people keep saying they are doing.

I also said "Ofcourse full autonomy at Ewood is preferable, but I don't think we saw the same stumbling on decisions the previous summer though. I thought it looked like a club that had agreed budgets and remit prior to the transfer window opening." So I would repeating myself replying to the initial part, and I'm not surprised you see the Nixon utilising the chasm to his advantage in the same way I do. We sold plenty of key players in most transfer windows 2014- Jan 17, where as the noticeable difference this summer was a reluctance to sell the current "key" players. Is that because of your assumption of no interest? Is it because of an injury to Lenihan?

You could call it a lack of confidence, but isn't this what we actually need from whoever is making the top decisions? Actual pro active approach to putting pressure on the manager, new contract or not? Rigg is certainly someone I would prefer to make suggestions on a new manager if that is what he is involved for. This is still just a superniko rumour though, hence my confusion at such doomongery predictions on the assumption this is fact. 

The final part - I don't think it is an "assumption" these owners don't "know" football, and therefore are not savvy enough to own or run a club in the way that they do. They of course have acumen elsewhere, as you point out by their empire - but I don't think that is applicable to making decisions based on the feelings or mindset of the fans.

 

[Tom]

This weeks interviews have a different tone, he seems to be under pressure and it's showing.

This is a big week a couple of wins and there will be a feeling of hope, poor results and the pressure grows 

[Dreams of 1995]

9 minutes ago, Biz said:

I also said "Ofcourse full autonomy at Ewood is preferable, but I don't think we saw the same stumbling on decisions the previous summer though. I thought it looked like a club that had agreed budgets and remit prior to the transfer window opening." So I would repeating myself replying to the initial part, and I'm not surprised you see the Nixon utilising the chasm to his advantage in the same way I do. We sold plenty of key players in most transfer windows 2014- Jan 17, where as the noticeable difference this summer was a reluctance to sell the current "key" players. Is that because of your assumption of no interest? Is it because of an injury to Lenihan?

You could call it a lack of confidence, but isn't this what we actually need from whoever is making the top decisions? Actual pro active approach to putting pressure on the manager, new contract or not? Rigg is certainly someone I would prefer to make suggestions on a new manager if that is what he is involved for. This is still just a superniko rumour though, hence my confusion at such doomongery predictions on the assumption this is fact. 

The final part - I don't think it is an "assumption" these owners don't "know" football, and therefore are not savvy enough to own or run a club in the way that they do. They of course have acumen elsewhere, as you point out by their empire - but I don't think that is applicable to making decisions based on the feelings or mindset of the fans.

 

I truthfully believe it was because of a lack of interest rather than Venkys standing firm. We had sniffs around Mulgrew, Lenihan and Graham but for whatever reason they didn't come off. Mulgrew is apparently on big wages, as is Graham, and I'd hazard a guess this is the reason they stuck around. As for Lenihan his injury problems are well known and Sheff Utd seemed to dismiss him and signed the target we had lined up instead. Lenihan and Mulgrew don't have the pedigree that Duffy and Hanley had otherwise I'd have said they would have gone. This is assumption of course but for me it doesn't make sense that suddenly they decided to not sell this year rather than all the others. Why would you sell the rest but then decide to change this approach with the players that got you relegated? Odd.

I'd prefer they fixed the board structure before deciding to change the recruitment approach again. I just don't understand who has decided Rigg should come in, as part-time or otherwise, when we have a whole load of other roles need filling. Do we have faith in TM or not? As you say this is a nicko rumour so there's no suggestion he's here, although Chaddy seems to assert he is, but why bring in someone "unofficially" in a move which clearly shows a lack of confidence in the man you "officially" employ? On a side note, how unbelievably silly is it that we are having to discuss official and unofficial employees of the club? Wow.

Yep, it's evidently clear that they don't know football. However, I'll again assume that in order to accumulate a billion dollar empire you have been forced to seek the advice of experts in the fields they invest. They have investments in chicken farming, genetic modification, poultry feeds, real estate, energy drinks/supplements etc etc and they have all been largely successful. I doubt that Balaji, Madame or the other twig boy are experts in every single one of them fields so they knew they had to appoint, or seek advice, from said experts. You'd have to assume they would realise the same for football but yet they persist in ignoring any advice and going about things in this 'unofficial' capacity. You have to ask yourself why? Why is a trio of global business moguls suddenly so reluctant to involve any experts in the way a club is ran? Why are they so reluctant to seek advice or simply employ real football people?

I will go out on a limb and say I have 0 connections in the footballing world however if I somehow became a billionaire tomorrow and bought a football club I'd be able to piece together a board of executives that worked for the club and pulled in the same direction. I refuse to believe it is impossible to seek out the good people in football and that they constantly keep getting "hoodwinked" into these strange, suspicious decisions. This Rigg debacle isn't involved in this because, as yet, we don't know if it's even happening but decisions like Coyle, Snr, Berg, Appleton, Kean, the Agnew situation, Shebby, Cheston etc etc can't all be "mistakes". You make them mistakes once, twice if you are extremely naive, but yearly? I don't buy it.

[Blue blood]

Let's be honest 8 games in and already 10 points behind the leaders, big signings who can't get in or are shoehorned into the team, a poor showing vs the dingles, at least 3 awful performances and interviews bemoaning not having the tools needed. All on the biggest budget! He should be feeling the pressure.

Still think he could turn things round but it's a far from great start.

[Tony Rover]

3 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Let's be honest 8 games in and already 10 points behind the leaders, big signings who can't get in or are shoehorned into the team, a poor showing vs the dingles, at least 3 awful performances and interviews bemoaning not having the tools needed. All on the biggest budget! He should be feeling the pressure.

Still think he could turn things round but it's a far from great start.

Far from perfect but not enough to be pushed overboard just yet. Whatever happens this season needs to work out for us. 

[blueboy3333]

Stat Attack: In the 22 games Mowbray has been in charge in the league I make that it we have only scored 7 goals in the first half and in only 5 matches, and only 3 of those goals have come at Ewood (2 in the MK game from defenders!). He must really get them fired up before the game

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Stat Attack: In the 22 games Mowbray has been in charge in the league I make that it we have only scored 7 goals in the first half and in only 5 matches, and only 3 of those goals have come at Ewood (2 in the MK game from defenders!). He must really get them fired up before the game

I'm sorry but Guy Fawkes couldn't fire up this lot. For every Smallwood we sign we also two or three players who are just here for the payday. If somebody would have accused me of just going through the motions in my playing days I'd have been more than furious. Somebody would have suffered in the next game. Have our players no pride or self respect ?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

I'm sorry but Guy Fawkes couldn't fire up this lot. For every Smallwood we sign we also two or three players who are just here for the payday. If somebody would have accused me of just going through the motions in my playing days I'd have been more than furious. Somebody would have suffered in the next game. Have our players no pride or self respect ?

It's a trend though and the common denominator is Mowbray. It happened with the players he inherited and it's now happening with the players he signed. Or at least it would if the players he signed were deemed good enough to get a game.

[Ozz]

No offence to the guy, as he`s a nice , passionate bloke, and I have a lot of time for him, but he`s not exactly Mastermind material. He`s a tactical Pygmy to be blunt, in my opinion.

[blueboy3333]

I don't rate him either really, when he has to force the pace or find a way of breaking the other side down he just can't do it. He's another that teases us with the mythical 'fast expansive football' that we never actually see.

The point about the 1st half stats is that he's a very cautious and reactive manager. We only really start going for it once we fall behind. I don't think it's any coincidence we're better away from home where the onus is not on us to attack.