[Archived] Mowbray stays as manager

[K-Hod]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Dress it up all you like. I couldn't really care less what Lambert did at Wolves but for whatever reason they decided he wasn't for them and since he left they've done a lot better.

Whilst he was here he performed marginally better than Bowyer who looked as though he might have taken us down at the point when he was sacked. Without the "new manager bounce" he achieved for 5 games when he took over though there was scarcely any difference between them though.

Funny that, I was replying to someone that brought it up which wasn't you, but by all means, stick your oar in pal. 

They're doing well so far, we'll see how they are by season's end.

Given time, he'd have done better than Bowyer. Lambert still had a better win percentage than Bowyer from considerably less games and that underlines my point.

[punerover]

1 minute ago, K-Hod said:

I'm going to assume the bit in bold is a typo? Graham arrived in January. If one player scored 40 goals a season for us between January and the end of the season, he'd not be here very long.......

I wouldn't even expect Ronaldo or Messi to be that productive in front of goal.....

Jordi Gomez came in and bagged some vital goals (granted he wasn't always that great aside from that.

Agreed. But that is not the point. The point is we were leaking goals and that was my point with DunnFC. And while I do admit that stats don't always show the complete picture, here are some numbers from that season.

Bowyer = Goals against = 15 in 16 = 0.9375 goals per game
Lambert = Goals against = 30 in 28 = 1.0714 goals per game

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, punerover said:

Lambert DID NOT address anything. Let alone our defense? In fact in that season his stats of goals conceded was WORSE compared to even Gary Bowyer. Nobody after Sam has been able to address the defensive frailties at all.

He was there for far longer that season. Anybody who attended the matches would argue we were far more drilled in defence under Lambert than we had been in any previous GB seasons.

We finished the season having conceded 46 goals. Substitute the 15 goals conceded under Bowyer means PL conceded 31 goals in 30 games. Nice and easy to work out we conceded about a goal a game.

The season before we conceded 59 in 46.

The season before that we conceded 62 in 46.

See where I am going with this? Lambert definitely improved our back 4 and had a much arguably weaker squad than the two seasons stated.

8 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I had to miss Saturday's game but logging on here briefly afterwards to check people's reaction you'd have thought we had lost, not gone 6th with a game in hand.

Take away the first two games (when it seems to me the players were under the mistaken impression that we only had to turn up to win) and since then I think we've done extremely well. Nineteen points from eight games.

It hasn't been perfect, but overall I think we've made a decent start all things considered. I also think Mowbray has done a decent job of recruiting this summer for the level we're at, most of his signings look like they're going to play an important part.

I also keep going on about this but imo Mowbray was left a terrible hand by the last two managers and/or the owners. We've been in decline for a long time now and it's perhaps not surprising that we haven't suddenly started playing like Barcelona and whupping teams 5 or 6 nil overnight. Oil tankers dont turn round overnight. He's had to start laying some long term foundations and I would say there's grounds for cautious optimism.

The only thing I would criticise him on is that I wish would be far more pro-active in giving our youngsters a chance. We don't want the likes of Wharton, Doyle Nuttall and Tomlinson disappearing the way of Mahoney. Overall though as long as we're averaging 2 points a game I dont think there's too much room for complaint.

Wholly agree with the fact that Mowbray has inherited an awful squad. However let's not just take away the first two games - it's 19 points from 10 games. They were winnable and it's up to the manager to ensure the players don't enter the pitch thinking the game is won already.

 

[punerover]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

He was there for far longer that season. Anybody who attended the matches would argue we were far more drilled in defence under Lambert than we had been in any previous GB seasons.

We finished the season having conceded 46 goals. Substitute the 15 goals conceded under Bowyer means PL conceded 31 goals in 30 games. Nice and easy to work out we conceded about a goal a game.

The season before we conceded 59 in 46.

The season before that we conceded 62 in 46.

See where I am going with this? Lambert definitely improved our back 4 and had a much arguably weaker squad than the two seasons stated.

Wholly agree with the fact that Mowbray has inherited an awful squad. However let's not just take away the first two games - it's 19 points from 10 games. They were winnable and it's up to the manager to ensure the players don't enter the pitch thinking the game is won already.

 

Dude 59 and 62 is just 3 goals. Its hardly an improvement over 46 games.

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, punerover said:

Dude 59 and 62 is just 3 goals. Its hardly an improvement over 46 games.

........Yeah and Gary Bowyer was manager for both of them seasons. Which is exactly what I am saying.

59/62 goals in 46 games for GB.

31 in 30 for PL.

Who did better? Take into consideration the squads available too.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, K-Hod said:

Funny that, I was replying to someone that brought it up which wasn't you, but by all means, stick your oar in pal. 

They're doing well so far, we'll see how they are by season's end.

Given time, he'd have done better than Bowyer. Lambert still had a better win percentage than Bowyer from considerably less games and that underlines my point.

Sorry thought this was a public messageboard. Didn't realise you weren't allowed to comment on other people's point of view. 

What on earth do you mean about "Given time" as if he was hard done by?

He chose to insert the break clause in his contract. He also chose to subsequently exercise it and walked out leaving us in a right state as far as the make up of the playing squad was concerned albeit we limped to safety.

[punerover]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

........Yeah and Gary Bowyer was manager for both of them seasons. Which is exactly what I am saying.

59/62 goals in 46 games for GB.

31 in 30 for PL.

Who did better? Take into consideration the squads available too.

That makes Lambert better than Bowyer which I do agree. Never disputed that at all. You do realize that conceding a goal a game might make Lambert better than Bowyer but that is no promotion material.

[K-Hod]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Sorry thought this was a public messageboard. Didn't realise you weren't allowed to comment on other people's point of view. 

What on earth do you mean about "Given time" as if he was hard done by?

He chose to insert the break clause in his contract. He also chose to subsequently exercise it and walked out leaving us in a right state as far as the make up of the playing squad was concerned albeit we limped to safety.

It is, but then you replied to a point saying you didn't care about something I was discussing with someone else which was just a bit of a weird way to say you didn't care, when nobody had asked you. But you told me anyway, which was nice of you.

He was here 6 months, if he'd been here as long as Bowyer and backed the same way, I believe we'd have done better.

I remember it well, if you worked for Venky's, wouldn't you want to protect yourself?

Anyhow, me and you have done this discussion too many times and we'll never agree, so I'm leaving it there.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Wholly agree with the fact that Mowbray has inherited an awful squad. However let's not just take away the first two games - it's 19 points from 10 games. They were winnable and it's up to the manager to ensure the players don't enter the pitch thinking the game is won already.

 

Completely agree. The fact we weren't up for the first two games goes down as a black mark against TM but like I say I think we've done very well since, especially after starting in that manner.

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, punerover said:

That makes Lambert better than Bowyer which I do agree. Never disputed that at all. You do realize that conceding a goal a game might make Lambert better than Bowyer but that is no promotion material.

 It was a marked improvement on our defensive woes under GB. You felt as if we could hold onto a lead for a start - the issue was getting that lead.

Newcastle and Brighton both conceded upwards of 40 goals last season but they were far more free scoring than us. You might have an argument that if Lambert got money to buy a strike force capable of scoring that many his defensive shape would have got us promoted.

There's definitely an argument to be had that had PL had Cairney, Gestede & Rhodes he would have got us straight back up. That wasn't on the agenda though was it 

[frosty]

30 minutes ago, punerover said:

Pray tell me what did Lambert do to address this issue? He got that loanie from Swansea or something and Feeney, and everyone would agree none of them are central midfield players.
 

Feeney was never here under Lambert. Bowyer signed him on loan then Coyle inexplicably brought him back.

[punerover]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

 It was a marked improvement on our defensive woes under GB. You felt as if we could hold onto a lead for a start - the issue was getting that lead.

Newcastle and Brighton both conceded upwards of 40 goals last season but they were far more free scoring than us. You might have an argument that if Lambert got money to buy a strike force capable of scoring that many his defensive shape would have got us promoted.

There's definitely an argument to be had that had PL had Cairney, Gestede & Rhodes he would have got us straight back up. That wasn't on the agenda though was it 

Aah We can always score more than the opposition argument. So than do you believe if Kean hadn't been sacked, he would have taken us back to the Premier League that season?

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, punerover said:

Aah We can always score more than the opposition argument. So than do you believe if Kean hadn't been sacked, he would have taken us back to the Premier League that season?

Probably not. Kean couldn't organise a defence and we were incredibly lucky to get the results we had got under him. I remember watching the Boro game at university - I had only just gone and the SU was still buzzing during freshers. I must have been the only one intently focused on the game and got a few odd looks from the crowd that didn't understand football. I said after that game that this bloke will never get us up and we are in for another frustrating season with him. Luckily for us they fired the rat after that.

However, had we appointed a real football manager and not had a string of Berg, Appleton and eventually Bowyer I do believe that squad was more than capable of automatic promotion.

[Dunnfc]

1 hour ago, punerover said:

15 million on Helder Costa and 1.4 million on Ben Marshall. 

We got 400k for Marshall btw 

[Dunnfc]

37 minutes ago, punerover said:

Agreed. But that is not the point. The point is we were leaking goals and that was my point with DunnFC. And while I do admit that stats don't always show the complete picture, here are some numbers from that season.

Bowyer = Goals against = 15 in 16 = 0.9375 goals per game
Lambert = Goals against = 30 in 28 = 1.0714 goals per game

Good stat but hidden that bowyers tenure spanned numerous squads. Compare those games he had in the same season and it won't look as rosey. 

[RV Blue]

15 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

It's rather like all the folk who moaned about Sam - it's gone ever so well since we got rid of him.

Comparing Sam and Mowbray is insulting to Sam, they are worlds apart. Sam is a proven success, Mowbray is a proven failure.

[blueboy3333]

39 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Funny that, I was replying to someone that brought it up which wasn't you, but by all means, stick your oar in pal. 

They're doing well so far, we'll see how they are by season's end.

Given time, he'd have done better than Bowyer. Lambert still had a better win percentage than Bowyer from considerably less games and that underlines my point.

You have no idea if he would have done better tnan Bowyer. And Bowyers points per game record, the only stat that mattets, was better than Lamberts. Lambert flounced off before he could reach Bowyers level of achievement. 

[Parsonblue]

Just now, RV Blue said:

Comparing Sam and Mowbray is insulting to Sam, they are worlds apart. Sam is a proven success, Mowbray is a proven failure.

Mowbray has had success and failure during his managerial career but could hardly be described as a proven failure.  

[Bigdoggsteel]

23 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Probably not. Kean couldn't organise a defence and we were incredibly lucky to get the results we had got under him. I remember watching the Boro game at university - I had only just gone and the SU was still buzzing during freshers. I must have been the only one intently focused on the game and got a few odd looks from the crowd that didn't understand football. I said after that game that this bloke will never get us up and we are in for another frustrating season with him. Luckily for us they fired the rat after that.

However, had we appointed a real football manager and not had a string of Berg, Appleton and eventually Bowyer I do believe that squad was more than capable of automatic promotion.

I have to agree with that. A real missed opportunity. 

[Dreams of 1995]

6 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

Comparing Sam and Mowbray is insulting to Sam, they are worlds apart. Sam is a proven success, Mowbray is a proven failure.

This is something that is hard to argue with. TM had some success with Hibernian and the obvious promotion success with WBA early in his managerial career. However, since then it's fair to say that TM hasn't exactly been a winner. His time at Celtic was torrid, his time at Boro average and his time at Coventry downright awful by anyone's standards.

Every club he has been at he's had the affection of the fans but this is a results based business and he hasn't delivered on that front since West Brom - that's even ignoring the relegation season.

[RV Blue]

18 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Mowbray has had success and failure during his managerial career but could hardly be described as a proven failure.  

He's failed everywhere he's been since 2008.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

We've really only convinced at home against Rotherham this season, and there will be far better teams who come to Ewood later in the season than we've seen so far. 

You mean like MK Dons?

[punerover]

I am not debating that Bowyer should not have been potted. He should have, else he would have taken us down. The new manager bounce of Lambert's appointment probably kept us up that season. The 3 wins and 2 draws immediately come to mind. But after that a series of 1-0 losses and 1-1 draws, hardly a away win, hardly a 0-0 draw. It was surely a bit better but results was nowhere close to promotion. We were not scoring enough, we were not keeping enough clean sheets. Our January transfer window was a disaster even when we got out of FFP.

January transfers under Lambert:

Elliot Bennet - winger
Simeon Jackson - striker
Danny Graham - striker
Tony Watt - striker
Jordi Gomez - attacking midfielder
Matt Grimes - winger

No goalkeepers signed. No defenders signed, No central midfielders signed. This shows that Lambert clearly thought we were good enough in midfield and defense and only needed more attacking options in order to reach playoffs or thereabouts. Looking at this I would not blame anyone to not trust him with a 20 million transfer kitty (even if there was one, which obviously isn't the case.)

End of season, he decides to go.

He was better than Bowyer no doubt. but nowhere as good as the automatic promotion material that some are claiming him to be.

 

[Dunnfc]

45 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Mowbray has had success and failure during his managerial career but could hardly be described as a proven failure.  

Hibs - Good job left for WBA

WBA - Promoted & Relegated left for Celtic

Celtic - Sacked

Middlesborough - Sacked 

Coventry - walked before being sacked.

mixed bag and poor recently tbf

[Parsonblue]

1 minute ago, Dunnfc said:

Hibs - Good job left for WBA

WBA - Promoted & Relegated left for Celtic

Celtic - Sacked

Middlesborough - Sacked 

Coventry - walked before being sacked.

mixed bag and poor recently tbf

In fairness most managers end up with the sack.  Mark Hughes was a manager at Ewood who was hugely successful and who I would still rate as a good manager but who has been sacked at a number of clubs.