[Archived] Mowbray stays as manager

[den9112]

Keith Hill......But I got told by a friend yesterday that he was given a 5 year deal at Rochdale.

I have also seen the way he works with his players on the training ground and how he his with the youth team .

[tomphil]

The team still has a soft underbelly and until a manager addresses that we'll never make any real progress, blowing the budget and your Dacks & Whittinghams only adds to it really because they are types who need a platform to play and need others doing the muck and bullets.

Been a problem for years though and a bit more steel in the squad would probably have seen us stay up last season, you need more of it than ever down here so it's bizarre it wasn't addressed.

Club as a whole has that though, a gentile plod along nature due to the mass vacuum between football staff and those in charge, will Cheston have Tony in his office Monday morning saying come on that's not good enough ? Will Pascha be here or elsewhere carrying out Balajis dirty work ? Will any of them know we lost and turned out another poor effort ?

Answers on a postcard please. 

[47er]

29 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Out of interest, if Tony was to go, who'd you realistically replace him with? That's the dilemma I have as I don't know many managers at this level, and don't expect Venkys to get a better person in.

No point in us speculating, we won't be taken any notice of.

I think they'll appoint Johnson-- for all the usual reasons including saving money.

No idea if it will work, nor have they, but when has that ever mattered?

[47er]

1 hour ago, Bluebarley said:

The form is we are winning/drawing more than we are losing there is still plenty of room for improvement granted, Bradford & Scunthorpe & Shrewsbury are hard places to go & we lost neither. I'm looking forward to a response from TM & the team.

Well apparently, Ewood Park is a hard place to go!

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 minute ago, 47er said:

Well apparently, Ewood Park is a hard place to go!

Well, it certainly is for me!

[RoverCanada]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

If you look at Wards career he fit the journeyman tag very well he's been farmed out on loan everywhere he's been, Another Miles perhaps ?

If I could oh so briefly defend Ward (otherwise, at this point it's obvious he's just not up to it anymore), I don't recall too many complaints about him when he stepped in for a few games at the end of the Lambert year, and I remember him being quite good when he finally returned from injury at the end of last year under Mowbray. Hence I'll admit I didn't have much concern about him going into this year.

He was Paul Lambert's 1st-choice CB back in his promotion season with Norwich 7 years ago in the Championship, so that connection seems pretty clear and it'd be quite a coincidence if his agent was also in cahoots with Rovers brass.

Perhaps its just been one injury too many for Ward...

Funny that we're now all begging for Downing's return after writing him off on his arrival  He's been a pleasant surprise over 3 clean sheets, albeit a small sample.

While it makes sense to see if Wharton's up to it, and I certainly hope he breaks through, I'm skeptical. He's had some injuries and apparently didn't exactly stand out on loan with Cambridge... Nevertheless, If he's fit he should definitely be given a look over Ward in this upcoming run of games, particularly if an opponent has pacey threats. Ward just looks awkward as hell when he tries to sprint...

Wharton hasn't managed a Cup game yet though, so perhaps Platt would be next in line instead? Can't speak for how he performed in the two EFL Trophy games nor his u23 performances.

[JHRover]

3 minutes ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Out of interest, if Tony was to go, who'd you realistically replace him with? That's the dilemma I have as I don't know many managers at this level, and don't expect Venkys to get a better person in.

As I said a few weeks ago, concerns about possible replacements should never keep a failing manager in a job. In our case I think Mowbray needs a bit more time but get towards December well off the pace as we are at present and it is time to contemplate a change. Being 'just outside' the top 6 isn't good enough if the budget and expectation is promotion. We're now a quarter of the way through the season and the best we've had is a fortnight in 6th place. That, combined with the distinctly average performances, lack of chances created, 4 defeats in 11 games and by and large being unconvincing throughout, leaves major concerns as to whether this existing arrangement is working.

Ultimately whether the team is good enough is irrelevant. Whether you believe we have more quality than the likes of Oldham (unpaid players and all) the fact remains that this is Mowbray's squad and his remit is promotion. If the squad isn't good enough then Mowbray is responsible for that as he led transfer strategy through the summer. If the squad is good enough but is underachieving then that is also Mowbray's fault as it is his job to coach them and prepare them for games. Either way he's falling short. It isn't good enough to just shrug shoulders and say 'oh well, the team isn't good enough'.

The problem we have is that we have no back up plan. Any other club in this league would have a process whereby poor results = change of manager with someone in the frame to come in at short notice. We won't have any of that and if a decision is made on Mowbray by these owners they are quite capable of letting 7-8 league games drift by with a caretaker in place just to finish off any chances of promotion.

[JHRover]

36 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Will Pascha be here or elsewhere carrying out Balajis dirty work ? Will any of them know we lost and turned out another poor effort ?

Answers on a postcard please. 

Pasha will be back in Pune as Balaji needs his laundry doing and the groceries picking up. Worry not, he'll be back to running Blackburn Rovers just after he's sorted out those more important things.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, 47er said:

No point in us speculating, we won't be taken any notice of.

I think they'll appoint Johnson-- for all the usual reasons including saving money.

No idea if it will work, nor have they, but when has that ever mattered?

Putting Johnno in charge would be the logical next step for me . So they definitely won't do that. They'll probably promote Lowe.

Keith Hill signed a 5 yr contract at Rochdale at the end of last season. His work with young players and cast offs is exemplary. What he's like with Big Time Charlie's I don't really know but I have a sneaking suspicion they"d either shape up or be gone.

[Dunnfc]

1 hour ago, Norbert Rassragr said:

Out of interest, if Tony was to go, who'd you realistically replace him with? That's the dilemma I have as I don't know many managers at this level, and don't expect Venkys to get a better person in.

Neal Ardley

[AAK]

2 hours ago, Bluebarley said:

The form is we are winning/drawing more than we are losing there is still plenty of room for improvement granted, Bradford & Scunthorpe & Shrewsbury are hard places to go & we lost neither. I'm looking forward to a response from TM & the team.

Whilst you are correct, all those games have seen us sit back, sit back more and then a bit more, and try and get something out of nothing. Bradford, was probably the best of the lot as they had no chances really, but neither did we apart from the goal. Scunthorpe, again we defended fairly well, but they really could have and should have scored think they hit the bar twice and had one off the line. Shrewsbury, all round dreadful apart from when Dack came on, they should have been out of sight before we scored.

We were lucky to win at Scunthorpe, lucky to get a point at Shrewsbury, scraped a win against Gillingham who should have scored an equaliser, we have been poor most games. Every away game (I know Gills was home) we seem to want to sit back and defend, and try and get a lucky break and nick a winner and if not we will be happy with a point, but then why play two up top? Two up top doesn't work if that's how we are setting up to play, we need an extra man in midfield.

[AAK]

47 minutes ago, RoverCanada said:

If I could oh so briefly defend Ward (otherwise, at this point it's obvious he's just not up to it anymore), I don't recall too many complaints about him when he stepped in for a few games at the end of the Lambert year, and I remember him being quite good when he finally returned from injury at the end of last year under Mowbray. Hence I'll admit I didn't have much concern about him going into this year.

He was Paul Lambert's 1st-choice CB back in his promotion season with Norwich 7 years ago in the Championship, so that connection seems pretty clear and it'd be quite a coincidence if his agent was also in cahoots with Rovers brass.

Perhaps its just been one injury too many for Ward...

Funny that we're now all begging for Downing's return after writing him off on his arrival  He's been a pleasant surprise over 3 clean sheets, albeit a small sample.

While it makes sense to see if Wharton's up to it, and I certainly hope he breaks through, I'm skeptical. He's had some injuries and apparently didn't exactly stand out on loan with Cambridge... Nevertheless, If he's fit he should definitely be given a look over Ward in this upcoming run of games, particularly if an opponent has pacey threats. Ward just looks awkward as hell when he tries to sprint...

Wharton hasn't managed a Cup game yet though, so perhaps Platt would be next in line instead? Can't speak for how he performed in the two EFL Trophy games nor his u23 performances.

Wharton did well at Cambridge, he had a few mom performances and they wanted him again. From their clubs season review at end of season " I’d be very happy to see Blackburn Rovers loanee Scott Wharton come back for another stint. He was very impressive towards the end of last season "

[JacknOry]

Just now, AAK said:

Wharton did well at Cambridge, he had a few mom performances and they wanted him again.

Yes i read that he won MOM a few times there.

[tomphil]

47 minutes ago, RoverCanada said:

If I could oh so briefly defend Ward (otherwise, at this point it's obvious he's just not up to it anymore), I don't recall too many complaints about him when he stepped in for a few games at the end of the Lambert year, and I remember him being quite good when he finally returned from injury at the end of last year under Mowbray. Hence I'll admit I didn't have much concern about him going into this year.

He was Paul Lambert's 1st-choice CB back in his promotion season with Norwich 7 years ago in the Championship, so that connection seems pretty clear and it'd be quite a coincidence if his agent was also in cahoots with Rovers brass.

Perhaps its just been one injury too many for Ward...

Funny that we're now all begging for Downing's return after writing him off on his arrival  He's been a pleasant surprise over 3 clean sheets, albeit a small sample.

While it makes sense to see if Wharton's up to it, and I certainly hope he breaks through, I'm skeptical. He's had some injuries and apparently didn't exactly stand out on loan with Cambridge... Nevertheless, If he's fit he should definitely be given a look over Ward in this upcoming run of games, particularly if an opponent has pacey threats. Ward just looks awkward as hell when he tries to sprint...

Wharton hasn't managed a Cup game yet though, so perhaps Platt would be next in line instead? Can't speak for how he performed in the two EFL Trophy games nor his u23 performances.

Doesn't alter the fact his career as a whole has seen him moved around on loan relentlessly apart from a couple of decent stints at Norwich & Coventry. Lambert brought him in as back up and he's done an ok job stepping in a time or two but he's exposed whenever he has to play a few games and yes injury may well have caught up with him so when we were looking to cut wages and move people on after relegation he should have been one of those.

I suspect given all that his wages are quite cheap that's why he's here but when it comes to him if you've watched him regularly it's his thought process and concentration that appears to be his major weakness not any physical stuff he's a lump so ok at that. Apart from the that he's slower than your average great grandma and his body language is awful.

On your other remark i'm not suggesting anyone is in cahoots with Rovers brass although nothing and I mean nothing would surprise me but given how he's moved about he has good agents, i'll concede maybe that was down to him himself being desperate to play though but I bet in football there are a few agents sons and relations having a career they should be nowhere near given what we saw with young Miles !

If there is a such thing as emergency loans or whatever in this league his position should have been looked at.

[Skiptonrover]

1 hour ago, AAK said:

Whilst you are correct, all those games have seen us sit back, sit back more and then a bit more, and try and get something out of nothing. Bradford, was probably the best of the lot as they had no chances really, but neither did we apart from the goal. Scunthorpe, again we defended fairly well, but they really could have and should have scored think they hit the bar twice and had one off the line. Shrewsbury, all round dreadful apart from when Dack came on, they should have been out of sight before we scored.

We were lucky to win at Scunthorpe, lucky to get a point at Shrewsbury, scraped a win against Gillingham who should have scored an equaliser, we have been poor most games. Every away game (I know Gills was home) we seem to want to sit back and defend, and try and get a lucky break and nick a winner and if not we will be happy with a point, but then why play two up top? Two up top doesn't work if that's how we are setting up to play, we need an extra man in midfield.

The buck stops with TM I get that, I think he should have asked for more money & been more proactive in the transfer market because the players are falling short with some of the lacklustre performances, you can criticise his man motivational skills in that respect, most teams set up to counter attack when away from home as the onus is on the home side to seize the initiative nothing unusual there. Sometimes it pays off more often than not it doesn't the away form is split from Southend to Oldham with Bradford Rochdale & Scunthorpe in between.

[Blue blood]

Just thinking/looking back on the transfer window alone, and TM has really badly, mucked it up. Total U turn from me on this but I'm not trying to hide it.

Just to  qualify I still think the window was a good one - for Venkys. We sold our second choice and appalling keeper, and a winger with no end product,  whilst everyone else we had stayed. We also had a decent budget for wages and transfer fees too. Contrast that with under Clueless for example, and you see how good a window it was.

But TM has really mucked it up:

1) I know little about league 1 and even I know you need fighters. All good Rovers teams need fighters. But given few of our existing players have stepped up in that regard bringing in just one battler is pretty appalling. We've no hard cb or striker, much less a team of hard players. Contrast that to under King Kenny, Parkes, Hughes and Big Sam - we've  a history of having a tough team when we're successful. Not the sole requirement admittedly but certainly a key one, especially in the rough and tumble of league 1.

2) Strikers. Ok even with only playing 1 up top we're woefully short, especially since one of them Antonson, can't actually play as the lone striker. So having only 2 out and out strikers leaves us an really struggling to play this formation. One loss of form (Graham) and an injury to Samuel, and we're stuffed. Even for playing 2 up top we're woefully short. Again, we only need a couple of injuries or suspensions and 4-4-2 does not become an option.

3) We spent all this time getting in players for a 4-2-3-1 formation and then don't play it. We've arguably 3 in the hole players in Dack, Antonson and Gladwin, 2 of whom seem to be wasted when this formation isn't played. This is a tad unfair Gladwin is wasted whenever he plays. But if you load a squad with players for a formation you then ditch - you're asking for trouble. On that would Whittingham have been brought as part of a planned 2 man central midfield? Not sure he has the mobility or all round game for this, meaning at least 3 signings potentially wasted when not playing this formation. Which we regularly don't play.

4) Centre backs. When you have a player you have to adjust your whole team for because they're so slow, then there's a school of thought that we should have either got rid of him, or got a pacey cb to counteract this weakness.

5) Tm didn't think about what he already had and use it well. So, so many examples of that:

- Graham got a decent return in a poor Championship team last year, so he should be able to cut it in this league. The fact TM hasn't either motivated him to do so, nor shipped him out if this is impossible to do is a waste of wages and ability.

- We have 2 centre backs in Mulgrew and Lenihan who can play defensive mid. Even if preferred at cb, surely to utilise their versatility we should've got more cb cover so if needed the pair could slot into central midfield. Given we've no other defensive midfielders in the squad bar the ever injured Evans, utilising this flexibility would have made a huge benefit. I'm still not convinced Whittingham offers anything Mulgrew couldn't at cm.

- Conway - legs are past it but great crosser of the ball. We're hardly a team of giants, and not really utilising his crossing ability.

- We've injury prone players in Evans and Mulgrew yet realistically these are some of the thinner places in the team. Banking on them to play regularly is a very dangerous move.

6) Caddis. I'm sure he looked ok against Darwen U12s in pre-season but it's hard to get an accurate assessment when the opposition is so poor. Had the opposition been of a slightly higher standard higher standard, perhaps his utter lack of fitness would've been highlighted.

 

And this is before I go into warm ups I'd be ashamed of at a stag do kick about, inconsistent performances, asking players if they'd like to play, the 4 losses already this season or any of the other many issues that we have. I like him as a bloke but the guy is badly messing up. Problem is I don't see us getting any better instead of TM.

 

[darrenrover]

I know I'm stating the obvious but who is there to assess whether or not TM is up to it or not? Get shut and who at the club is suitably qualified to source a replacement and set objectives?

It's a rhetorical question and we all know the answer.

We may have the biggest budget and the best facilities but we sure as hell have the worst CLUB management.

[darrenrover]

2 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Just thinking/looking back on the transfer window alone, and TM has really badly, mucked it up. Total U turn from me on this but I'm not trying to hide it.

Just to  qualify I still think the window was a good one - for Venkys. We sold our second choice and appalling keeper, and a winger with no end product,  whilst everyone else we had stayed. We also had a decent budget for wages and transfer fees too. Contrast that with under Clueless for example, and you see how good a window it was.

But TM has really mucked it up:

1) I know little about league 1 and even I know you need fighters. All good Rovers teams need fighters. But given few of our existing players have stepped up in that regard bringing in just one battler is pretty appalling. We've no hard cb or striker, much less a team of hard players. Contrast that to under King Kenny, Parkes, Hughes and Big Sam - we've  a history of having a tough team when we're successful. Not the sole requirement admittedly but certainly a key one, especially in the rough and tumble of league 1.

2) Strikers. Ok even with only playing 1 up top we're woefully short, especially since one of them Antonson, can't actually play as the lone striker. So having only 2 out and out strikers leaves us an really struggling to play this formation. One loss of form (Graham) and an injury to Samuel, and we're stuffed. Even for playing 2 up top we're woefully short. Again, we only need a couple of injuries or suspensions and 4-4-2 does not become an option.

3) We spent all this time getting in players for a 4-2-3-1 formation and then don't play it. We've arguably 3 in the hole players in Dack, Antonson and Gladwin, 2 of whom seem to be wasted when this formation isn't played. This is a tad unfair Gladwin is wasted whenever he plays. But if you load a squad with players for a formation you then ditch - you're asking for trouble. On that would Whittingham have been brought as part of a planned 2 man central midfield? Not sure he has the mobility or all round game for this, meaning at least 3 signings potentially wasted when not playing this formation. Which we regularly don't play.

4) Centre backs. When you have a player you have to adjust your whole team for because they're so slow, then there's a school of thought that we should have either got rid of him, or got a pacey cb to counteract this weakness.

5) Tm didn't think about what he already had and use it well. So, so many examples of that:

- Graham got a decent return in a poor Championship team last year, so he should be able to cut it in this league. The fact TM hasn't either motivated him to do so, nor shipped him out if this is impossible to do is a waste of wages and ability.

- We have 2 centre backs in Mulgrew and Lenihan who can play defensive mid. Even if preferred at cb, surely to utilise their versatility we should've got more cb cover so if needed the pair could slot into central midfield. Given we've no other defensive midfielders in the squad bar the ever injured Evans, utilising this flexibility would have made a huge benefit. I'm still not convinced Whittingham offers anything Mulgrew couldn't at cm.

- Conway - legs are past it but great crosser of the ball. We're hardly a team of giants, and not really utilising his crossing ability.

- We've injury prone players in Evans and Mulgrew yet realistically these are some of the thinner places in the team. Banking on them to play regularly is a very dangerous move.

6) Caddis. I'm sure he looked ok against Darwen U12s in pre-season but it's hard to get an accurate assessment when the opposition is so poor. Had the opposition been of a slightly higher standard higher standard, perhaps his utter lack of fitness would've been highlighted.

 

And this is before I go into warm ups I'd be ashamed of at a stag do kick about, inconsistent performances, asking players if they'd like to play, the 4 losses already this season or any of the other many issues that we have. I like him as a bloke but the guy is badly messing up. Problem is I don't see us getting any better instead of TM.

 

All sadly so true. I would add though that Darwen Under 12s have a fair side this season, apparently after Elliot Ward on loan in January.

[tomphil]

23 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

I know I'm stating the obvious but who is there to assess whether or not TM is up to it or not? Get shut and who at the club is suitably qualified to source a replacement and set objectives?

It's a rhetorical question and we all know the answer.

We may have the biggest budget and the best facilities but we sure as hell have the worst CLUB management.

Hence I fear we could turn into another version of Bradford City and end up being perennial nearly men in this league despite the facilities and healthy budget. Theirs gets propped up by being a city club offering tickets for peanuts but reaping the benefits of massive crowds and the extra revenue all that brings, we get propped up by an Indian corporation flowing some profits through the club for whatever the real reason is.

They struggle to get enough clout to get over the line having been down here for years whereas we suffer from a complete void in structure and direction from our backers.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 hours ago, 47er said:

Well apparently, Ewood Park is a hard place to go!

Only because of the new road system round Ewood which has made the stadium virtually impossible to get in or out of by car on matchdays.

[RevidgeBlue]

As regards TM i think we need either 6 points this week or at the absolute minimum 4 with two barnstorming performances where the players look hungry and up for it throughout.  

Otherwise i'd be looking at his position carefully whilst there is still time to resurrect a challenge.

[Gav]

4 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

As regards TM i think we need either 6 points this week or at the absolute minimum 4 with two barnstorming performances where the players look hungry and up for it throughout.  

Otherwise i'd be looking at his position carefully whilst there is still time to resurrect a challenge.

Come off it Simon, we're 3 points of the playoffs its bonkers to be even thinking of a new manager.

We've just spent a small budget, brought new players in, improved a contract or 2? thats major @#/? progress under this lot.

The club needs stability not more upheaval, I wonder if anyone calling the managers head has learnt anything over the past 8yrs.

 

[RevidgeBlue]

Yes but it would appear from the considerable slack Kean Bowyer and now Mowbray were given "this lot" are prepared to back you if you play the game and go over and see them in India etc.

I like TM as a person but I do thi k he is underperforming quite badly at present.

[Parsonblue]

Just now, Gav said:

Come off it Simon, we're 3 points of the playoffs its bonkers to be even thinking of a new manager.

We've just spent a small budget, brought new players in, improved a contract or 2? thats major @#/? progress under this lot.

The club needs stability not more upheaval, I wonder if anyone calling the managers head has learnt anything over the past 8yrs.

 

Must admit that I tend to agree Gav, even though I've been far from impressed thus far.  No club has an automatic right to win promotion.  Getting out of this League isn't all that easy, particularly when you look at the unrelenting decline of the last seven years.  Sheffield United took six seasons and Leeds United three seasons.  Our first excursion in this League lasted four seasons before we escaped and that spell also coincided with a period of steady decline.  Having said that I do agree with Rev that we are underperforming and defensively we look frail whilst attacking wise we look inept.  I think it's too early to talk about sacking the manager but Mowbray himself said at the meeting last week that he would expect the sack if he fails to win promotion.  However, as you say Gav, we are well within reach of the play-offs and if - and it's a huge if - the two games in hand were won it would look a totally different picture.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

Must admit that I tend to agree Gav, even though I've been far from impressed thus far.  No club has an automatic right to win promotion.  Getting out of this League isn't all that easy, particularly when you look at the unrelenting decline of the last seven years.  Sheffield United took six seasons and Leeds United three seasons.  Our first excursion in this League lasted four seasons before we escaped and that spell also coincided with a period of steady decline.  Having said that I do agree with Rev that we are underperforming and defensively we look frail whilst attacking wise we look inept.  I think it's too early to talk about sacking the manager but Mowbray himself said at the meeting last week that he would expect the sack if he fails to win promotion.  However, as you say Gav, we are well within reach of the play-offs and if - and it's a huge if - the two games in hand were won it would look a totally different picture.

Is TM a Ken Furphy though Parson?