[Archived] Mowbray stays as manager

[RevidgeBlue]

23 minutes ago, Eddie said:

'on the evidence so far we are a long way from that'. 

Really? Win one of our two games in hand and we are in the playoff spots. 

How can anyone look at that and say that 'evidence shows that we are a long way from promotion'. 

That is, quite frankly, ridiculous. 

I'd love it if we were where Wigan are. Having said that, I have little doubt that a significant percentage of this messageboard would still be moaning about how terrible we are and how we've lost 2 matches. 

We've gone through some rough times over the past 7 years, but we've also turned into a moaning load of sh*ts.

I usually agree with most of your posts Eddie but I think you're slightly wide of the mark on this. I don't think anyone whatsoever would be moaning if we were where Wigan were, but we're not! They're where they are and we're a long way short of that!

Also much of your hypothesis appears based on the assumption that we'll win our two games in hand. That's a fairly dangerous assumption based on the way we're playing. As I replied to Gav the other day the problem is not so much the current points tally, it's the fact we appear to be unwilling or unable to turn up one game in three and unless that trend is eradicated we are clearly going nowhere.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

We're almost quarter of our way through the season and we play a really struggling team at home tonight.

Yet nobody on here has a clue what 11 will turn out tonight. You'd be doing well if you could name more than about 5 with any certainty. Equally nobody has a clue what system we'll play and how often it will change during the course of the game.  We keep making unforced triple substitutions quite early in the game This is after two months.

That speaks volumes regarding the management.

[HowieFive0]

3 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I usually agree with most of your posts Eddie but I think you're slightly wide of the mark on this. I don't think anyone whatsoever would be moaning if we were where Wigan were, but we're not! They're where they are and we're a long way short of that!

Also much of your hypothesis appears based on the assumption that we'll win our two games in hand. That's a fairly dangerous assumption based on the way we're playing. As I replied to Gav the other day the problem is not so much the current points tally, it's the fact we appear to be unwilling or unable to turn up one game in three and unless that trend is eradicated we are clearly going nowhere.

I think thats the worrying thing as each game goes by the performances (forget the results ) dont seem to be improving. Any team in this league can win two on the bounce and paper over the cracks but the level of performance is completely different.

I still think the players have to hold their hands up at times though. Simple basic football skills seem to go out of the window with our lot so any tactics(good or bad ) are a bloody non starter at times .

But of course in football ..the manager is accountable for this. Mowbray is always going to be one defeat away from people calling for his head with performances the team is churning out ..although even if we won promotion i think there d be calls for Mowbray to be replaced. 

Dead man walking ..

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I usually agree with most of your posts Eddie but I think you're slightly wide of the mark on this. I don't think anyone whatsoever would be moaning if we were where Wigan were, but we're not! They're where they are and we're a long way short of that!

Also much of your hypothesis appears based on the assumption that we'll win our two games in hand. That's a fairly dangerous assumption based on the way we're playing. As I replied to Gav the other day the problem is not so much the current points tally, it's the fact we appear to be unwilling or unable to turn up one game in three and unless that trend is eradicated we are clearly going nowhere.

My point was somewhat tongue in cheek, but I have little doubt that a decent percentage of posters on here would find some aspect of the club to complain about. 

My original points actually relied on the assumption that we would pick up at least 3 games from our games in hand. All points projections were worked out from our current standings. 

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Eddie said:

My point was somewhat tongue in cheek, but I have little doubt that a decent percentage of posters on here would find some aspect of the club to complain about. 

My original points actually relied on the assumption that we would pick up at least 3 games from our games in hand. All points projections were worked out from our current standings. 

 

Yeah, I'm with you. How can anyone find something to complain about regarding Rovers at the moment ? Miserable beggars, some people are don't realise how lucky we are to be getting run off our feet at the mighty Oldham.

[Eddie]

There have been posters on here complaining after wins. 

 

[DE.]

It's the same on any football forum. How utterly boring would it be if everybody just posted "brilliant game lads, up t'rovers". There have been Rovers forums like that, but they're pretty much all dead. It's great that we have posters with viewpoints across the spectrum on here, and I wouldn't want that to change. 

[lraC]

Just now, Eddie said:

There have been posters on here complaining after wins. 

 

Yeah loads of them kicked off when we won away at Brentford. I can't for the life of me think why?

[Eddie]

Just now, DE. said:

It's the same on any football forum. How utterly boring would it be if everybody just posted "brilliant game lads, up t'rovers". There have been Rovers forums like that, but they're pretty much all dead. It's great that we have posters with viewpoints across the spectrum on here, and I wouldn't want that to change. 

I, like you, have been on this forum for long enough to have witnessed an overall change in attitude and the nature of the discussion. The last 6-12 months have seen a slight improvement, enough of an improvement that I decided to stop simply being an observer and to start posting again. 

Obviously, that is down to what has happened off the field, but, at a certain point, it would be nice if the discussion about on the field performances was limited to things directly relating to matches and the actual team. 

Justified complaints about certain aspects of the club do not hand the supporters a carte blanche to complain about every aspect of the club. 

 

 

 

[RoverInverness]

I just looked on odds checker and we are still second favourite for promotion after Wigan.

Of course, in reality betting odds can sometimes be a indication of absolutely nothing and may merely reflect the amount of money placed on an event rather than the likelihood of it actually happening. However, it is not unreasonable to suggest that odds of (for example) 13/10 probably show that to the outside world our promotion prospects look much more favourable than would be assumed after reading the last few pages of this thread.

We have two games in hand and over three quarters of the season left. We have not started well, and that reflects badly on Mowbray, but this race is far from run. This is the time for taking a deep breath and holding firm.

IF we were a normal club I think an astute board or chairman might in fairness start thinking about how many games Mowbray was going to be given to turn it around. However, as we all know, any amount of chaos/dodgy agent sthite could be unleashed on us if Mowbray were to be sacked.

As for comparing Mowbray to Coyle or even to Kean?!?!?!? Mowbray is a decent man who is not performing as well as we would like. Coyle was dishonest little prick and Kean was a sewer rat. At best the comparisons are an over reaction to a seemingly rather average manager, at worst the comparisons degenerate the memory of just how bad those reigns were and play into the hands of those who would - incorrectly - argue that Rovers fans were too harsh on those two foul smelling agent appointees.

If we lose or draw tonight I may start considering the alternatives. However, if we win it is stick to plan A - all the way. There is no plan B in place remember, we are not a club that is capable of a swift and efficient transfer of management teams. Basically it is Mowbray or Dunn/Johnson or whoever is recommended to Balaji from his 'contacts'. At the moment - for me - Mowbray is still the best option out of those three.

[Miker]

One thing that encourages me about Mowbray is that he says it like it is. After the Oldham loss you could see his anger at the result and he made it clear he was not happy with our shape, with our efforts in the final third and with some of the players performances. 

There have been times this season where he has put his hands up and admitted he got things wrong, corrected it and we ended up getting a result. 

Against Oldham he got it very wrong. We looked comfortable in the first half but were failing to link up the midfield with our strikers in the final third. The solution should have been to change the shape a bit, potentially bring Dack on to help be that link between midfield and the forward line. But instead he brought off all our hard working players and replaced them with attacking players who unbalanced the team even further. The result was that nothing changed in our play but we were just left more exposed at the back and in the middle of the pitch with Byrne running riot, eventually resulting in a total collapse on our side. 

So Mowbray definitely has to take the blame for that and if he continues to make poor decisions like that I would be inclined to agree that he's not cut out for the job, but if we see an improvement tonight I will be happy. 

[DE.]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

I, like you, have been on this forum for long enough to have witnessed an overall change in attitude and the nature of the discussion. The last 6-12 months have seen a slight improvement, enough of an improvement that I decided to stop simply being an observer and to start posting again. 

Obviously, that is down to what has happened off the field, but, at a certain point, it would be nice if the discussion about on the field performances was limited to things directly relating to matches and the actual team. 

Justified complaints about certain aspects of the club do not hand the supporters a carte blanche to complain about every aspect of the club. 

It was just as bad at the end of the Souness era (the MB was locked down after some matches, remember?) and the Allardyce era was pretty bad too. 

Venky's have cast a very dark cloud on this club, and I'm afraid that will be reflected in many people's comments. Some people (and I'd probably include myself in this) can't just ignore the big picture and pretend we're a normal club being run in a normal way. We aren't, and that's why manager after manager is failing here. That's why it's pertinent to talk about it often, because as much as we'd like to pretend the elephant in the room doesn't exist, it does, and it's crushing every hope we have of being successful. 

7 years and a succession of managers later, I can't blame anybody for being miserable. This is a miserable situation with no end in sight.

With the above said, though, the match threads do have plenty of discussion on the actual match. It's easy to ignore posts that discuss the deeper issues at the club, if that's not what you want to read. Usually if people are complaining post-match it'll be reservations on our tactics, overall form or inability to get a grip on games. Maybe I'm wrong as I only tend to glance at match threads these days due to being out of the house, but most debate seems to centre around the match itself. 

[DE.]

3 minutes ago, Miker said:

One thing that encourages me about Mowbray is that he says it like it is. After the Oldham loss you could see his anger at the result and he made it clear he was not happy with our shape, with our efforts in the final third and with some of the players performances. 

There have been times this season where he has put his hands up and admitted he got things wrong, corrected it and we ended up getting a result. 

Against Oldham he got it very wrong. We looked comfortable in the first half but were failing to link up the midfield with our strikers in the final third. The solution should have been to change the shape a bit, potentially bring Dack on to help be that link between midfield and the forward line. But instead he brought off all our hard working players and replaced them with attacking players who unbalanced the team even further. The result was that nothing changed in our play but we were just left more exposed at the back and in the middle of the pitch with Byrne running riot, eventually resulting in a total collapse on our side. 

So Mowbray definitely has to take the blame for that and if he continues to make poor decisions like that I would be inclined to agree that he's not cut out for the job, but if we see an improvement tonight I will be happy. 

My fear with Mowbray is that he's all bark and no bite. Somebody needs to ask him why our substitutes are allowed to run around the pitch at half time piggybacking each other and acting like they're down the local park for a kick about with mates. It suggests a real lack of control from Mowbray and a lack of respect from the players.

[Parsonblue]

2 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

I certainly think Furphy would eventually have delivered promotion had he not been poached by then top flight Sheffield Utd PB.

I made the comparison because you said that it took us 4 seasons to bounce back in our first spell in division 1. That is correct but Furphy was a relatively young dynamic tracksuit type manager for those days whose career was very much on an upward trajectory. At that time the Club were also in a far worse position than we are even now and he had to strip the Club out from top to bottom on an absolute shoestring getting rid of the players he didnt want and bringing in players he did.

In comparison TM has an extremely favourable budget to the rest of the division but  that doesn't seem to be translating into an advantage on the pitch and he seems to be showing a remarkable reluctance to jettison the majority of the players who haven't performed for us in the past and taken us down. With the best will in the world could you describe TM as a dynamic manager whose career is on an upward trajectory? I'd say at best the jury is still out on his performance so far as our manager. There were signs of promise last season and it looked at one point as though he was going to keep us up but then we suddenly went very negative for a spell and we eventually just missed out. This season expectations are completely different but once again I can only describe what has happened overall thus far as fairly disappointing.

It's too soon to sack him now but I'd almost describe the next two home games as being pivotal to our prospects. Anything less than 4 points and any hopes of automatic promotion will already be disappearing out of the window before the clocks go back. Never mind the 4 points, I'd almost rather see the team suddenly playing with some hunger, passion and desire which would indicate things are likely to turn round.

I hope he turns it round and leads us to some overdue success but what if results and performances continue to disappoint? Is it good management to wait until the chance of promotion has completely gone before we make a change?

Must admit that I wasn't a fan of Furphy after his first two seasons at the club.  I felt that throughout his final season here he always had one eye on jumping ship to better things.  I must admit that I have mixed feelings with regard to Mowbray.  He's certainly no Gordon Lee and I wouldn't take one player from the present crop over the team that Lee produced back in 74-75.  Yet, on the other hand, after seven years of decline I'm not sure that this can be turned round in 12 or 18 months no matter who is manager.  Mowbray says all the right things and clearly wants to rebuild the club from the ground up which is a long term project.  Having watched every game I can't say I've seen anything that suggests we are good enough to finish in the top two at the moment.  He may or may not turn it around but getting rid and then waiting for the owners to come up with a replacement will, I suspect, see the end of any promotion hopes, even via the play-offs.  For the moment I'm happy to stick with him but he needs to start getting results on a consistent basis.  

[RevidgeBlue]

By way of comparison in the 1974/5 3rd Division Championship season we won 8 drew 2 and lost one of the opening eleven games so we're some way off that sort of form.

On the other hand, when we won promotion under Howard Kendall from Div 3 in 79/80 we had a record of W2 D5 lost 4 from the opening eleven games so we're much better than that and it can happen after a bad start. However, that season we went on a run of W14 D1 over a15 match spell between January and April and you can't see the current squad having the desire to reproduce anything like that.

[tomphil]

I doubt that kind of recovery happens anymore in pro football they are so mentally fragile, pampered and well paid these days. Also of course having enforcers in a team to flatten the opposition and drive your own side on isn't allowed sadly.

Christ we postpone home games because a whopping TWO players are away, one who never plays for more than a few games at a time anyway and who cover had already been brought in!

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, tomphil said:

I doubt that kind of recovery happens anymore in pro football they are so mentally fragile, pampered and well paid these days. Also of course having enforcers in a team to flatten the opposition and drive your own side on isn't allowed sadly.

Christ we postpone home games because a whopping TWO players are away, one who never plays for more than a few games at a time anyway and who cover had already been brought in!

I did think tbat postponining either of the games was a big mistake. Was always likely to leave us performing catch up even if wee were doing well and pile even more pressure on if we had a couple of slip ups which as it turns out  we have had.

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 hours ago, Eddie said:

There have been posters on here complaining after wins. 

 

Yes, but let's face it. Much as we might love them, Rovers are s***t....

[G Somerset Rover]

Time to go for me. Plymouth have seven points and had 9 defeats in 13 before tonight. I just cannot see it getting better and we need to act before we're too far adrift to rectify things.

[davulsukur]

Just now, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Time to go for me. Plymouth have seven points and had 9 defeats in 13 before tonight. I just cannot see it getting better and we need to act before we're too far adrift to rectify things.

Agreed.

Mowbray continues to learn nothing.

[Bigdoggsteel]

I can understand what Coventry and Boro fans were talking about now. The guy isn't up to it. Sad,but he has to go and we need to get a young successful and hungry manager in. Johnson or someone like Cook who has won in the lower leagues 

[Cherry Blue]

He should have gone earlier, easy for me to say, but lets hope replacement manager already knows. 

Tony, be an honest chap and walk away,

[Tom]

Another dismal failure tonight.

He could have no complaints if he was potted 

[bluefred]

If he cares how the fans feel , he should walk in the hope we can get someone 

to get us back on track for the chance of promotion.

[Guest]

Another prank call by "Tony" to Balaji is in order...