[Archived] Mowbray stays as manager

[tomphil]

Just now, JHRover said:

His trump card may well be Dack. He managed to get £750,000 out of them or however much it was and fast forward 1 year and a promotion and he's talking about a new contract and probably a valuation of 10x that should we sell him in the near future. If Madame can be persuaded to try and replicate that model with 3-4 more players even if only 1 pays off she's still going to turn a profit on it.

I know we're dealing with Venkys here and their plans for the club seem to change on a whim but last summer despite a potentially disastrous relegation they decided to stick with Mowbray and not only that but gave him improved terms and a longer contract whilst backing him in the market. Logic would suggest that having repaid that faith by delivering promotion, repairing the clubs reputation and taking a lot of negative attention away from India that they would look to 'reward' him by backing him once again this summer.

That's exactly the model they should now follow and in business terms it actually is 'investment' rather than just underwriting the bills.

Don't mind if Mowbrays mob source out the odd decent player on a free because it's likely to be somebody he knows and they usually put the effort in for him, no more of this just getting bodies in the building lark.

There has to be one or two good cash buys though.

[DE.]

Let's be careful of including "Venky's" and "logic" in the same paragraph. The two have rarely gone together over the years.

Bowyer seemed to prove that you could get a little blood from the Venky stone by showing you could increase the sell-on value of younger players. However that good will quickly evaporated when performances began to tail off. I do wonder what the catalyst was for the taps being completely shut off and GB essentially being hung out to dry after a few years of achieving decent profits from initial low cost buys. What was it that soured Venky's on Bowyer and the club as a whole during the summer of 2015?

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, DE. said:

Let's be careful of including "Venky's" and "logic" in the same paragraph. The two have rarely gone together over the years.

Bowyer seemed to prove that you could get a little blood from the Venky stone by showing you could increase the sell-on value of younger players. However that good will quickly evaporated when performances began to tail off. I do wonder what the catalyst was for the taps being completely shut off and GB essentially being hung out to dry after a few years of achieving decent profits from initial low cost buys. What was it that soured Venky's on Bowyer and the club as a whole during the summer of 2015?

Didn't the parachute payments end that summer? 

Imagine, Sunderland are going to be getting their 2nd year of parachute payments in League 1. 

[DE.]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Didn't the parachute payments end that summer? 

Imagine, Sunderland are going to be getting their 2nd year of parachute payments in League 1. 

I thought it was the summer before, but you might very well be right. Even so, the likes of Cairney and Evans were costing us less than £1m, and Bowyer wasn't even given that. As a reminder our transfer "business" that summer was Delfouneso on a free, Koita on a free, Lawrence on loan, Grimey on loan, Danny Guthrie on a free, Hopeless on a free, and Mo Barrow on loan for a couple of weeks. Literally £0 transfer spend that summer, unless I'm forgetting somebody.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, DE. said:

I thought it was the summer before, but you might very well be right. Even so, the likes of Cairney and Evans were costing us less than £1m, and Bowyer wasn't even given that. As a reminder our transfer "business" that summer was Delfouneso on a free, Koita on a free, Lawrence on loan, Grimey on loan, Danny Guthrie on a free, Hopeless on a free, and Mo Barrow on loan for a couple of weeks. Literally £0 transfer spend that summer, unless I'm forgetting somebody.

Ya, a collection of misfits and cast offs. Pretty much the beginning of our drop to League 1. 

Corner turned hopefully. I am cautiously optimistic 

[DE.]

I've actually just remembered we were under a transfer embargo at the time, hence the nil net spend.

[JHRover]

 

23 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Didn't the parachute payments end that summer? 

Imagine, Sunderland are going to be getting their 2nd year of parachute payments in League 1. 

Sunderland will be getting about £35 million in parachute money next year in League One, then the season after it will drop to £14 million, according to this:

https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sunderland-parachute-payments-how-much-14345551

It seems to have changed from when we were getting it, as we got payments over 4 years but I think they were more like £15 million for 2 years and then £8 million for 2 years when we got them.

Factor in that Jack Rodwell is currently on £70,000+ a week and after relegation will still be on £40,000+ a week and you can soon burn your way through that money. Their wage bill will be staggering and their owner has no appetite to invest more cash so that parachute money is likely to get eaten up on running costs and daft wages.

Having said that they will be competing with the likes of Stanley, Rochdale and Wimbledon so they'll do well to not be in promotion contention.

[DE.]

Sunderland are in a worse situation in terms of finances and contracts than we were going down. By the time we got relegated we had gotten rid of most of our high earners, generally speaking the only players on decent wages we had left were good enough to be useful in L1. Graham and Mulgrew in particular have been massive difference makers. Evans and Conway less so but it's possible their overall experience helped the newer lads settle in and play well. None of our remaining higher earners are troublemakers or bad eggs which is pretty important.

It's a totally different situation at Sunderland. A lot of high paid players still clinging on from their PL days (a consequence of being relegated twice so quickly, we at least had a few seasons to adjust our wages/budget before taking the next drop). Then there's the Rodwell debacle which is an insanely toxic situation in of itself. 

Mowbray nearly got us out of relegation trouble in his first half season. The players who were left had a reason to believe in him. Coleman hasn't been able to change Sunderland's fortunes in the slightest and unlike us they won't be going into the new season with any positive momentum at all. They're going down in far poorer shape than we were, imo. I'd be very worried if I was a Sunderland fan.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, DE. said:

Sunderland are in a worse situation in terms of finances and contracts than we were going down. By the time we got relegated we had gotten rid of most of our high earners, generally speaking the only players on decent wages we had left were good enough to be useful in L1. Graham and Mulgrew in particular have been massive difference makers. Evans and Conway less so but it's possible their overall experience helped the newer lads settle in and play well. None of our remaining higher earners are troublemakers or bad eggs which is pretty important.

It's a totally different situation at Sunderland. A lot of high paid players still clinging on from their PL days (a consequence of being relegated twice so quickly, we at least had a few seasons to adjust our wages/budget before taking the next drop). Then there's the Rodwell debacle which is an insanely toxic situation in of itself. 

Mowbray nearly got us out of relegation trouble in his first half season. The players who were left had a reason to believe in him. Coleman hasn't been able to change Sunderland's fortunes in the slightest and unlike us they won't be going into the new season with any positive momentum at all. They're going down in far poorer shape than we were, imo. I'd be very worried if I was a Sunderland fan.

They will need more of a squad overhaul than we did and we needed a big one.  If they don't get the personnel and ,most importantly (as we showed) managerial appointments right, they could be in for a long, hard slog next season. 

New owner and Paul Hurst in as manager would make me happy if I was a Sunderland fan. The same owner and Coleman will not end well IMO 

John O'Shea did an interview the other day saying the fact he played every game this season shows how bad things are at the club. He was the captain and got player of the year. Things are not well there.

[DE.]

3 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

John O'Shea did an interview the other day saying the fact he played every game this season shows how bad things are at the club. He was the captain and got player of the year. Things are not well there.

I have to admit, the picture of him accepting the POTY award made me laugh out loud.

I've been at happier funerals than this.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, DE. said:

I have to admit, the picture of him accepting the POTY award made me laugh out loud.

I've been at happier funerals than this.

I hadn't seen that. Jesus 

[Stuart]

I’d sooner see photos of players with faces like that after a relegation season than shits-and-giggles insta shots.

At least they look as though it hurts. The fans certainly will be hurting.

[Bigdoggsteel]

O'Shea has had a top notch career, up there with any player. It actually makes me sad seeing him having to go though that shit at this stage. They shouldn't have had a player of the year. 

[DE.]

For what it's worth apparently it's the supporters club that sets the awards evening up, not the club. But yeah, they should have cancelled it. O'Shea looks mortified to be receiving that trophy. Imagine that will not be on display at his house. 

[roversfan99]

41 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

O'Shea has had a top notch career, up there with any player. It actually makes me sad seeing him having to go though that shit at this stage. They shouldn't have had a player of the year. 

Being associated with United means of course thats correct but since he left his deficincies have been consistently shown up without brilliant players around him.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

Being associated with United means of course thats correct but since he left his deficincies have been consistently shown up without brilliant players around him.

116 caps for Ireland plus the below. Deficiencies or not, as I said, a career up there with any player. He held his place in one of the best , if not the very best teams we will ever see in our lifetime, for many seasons. He covered practically every position for Utd, including in goals. Should have went to Everton instead of Sunderland when he left united though. 

• Premier League: 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11^[36]
• FA Cup: 2003–04
• Football League Cup: 2005–06, 2008–09
• FA Community Shield: 2003, 2007, 2008, 2010
• UEFA Champions League: 2007–08
• FIFA Club World Cup: 2008

Sunderland

• Football League Cup runner-up: 2013–14

Republic of Ireland U16

• UEFA European Under-16 Championship: 1998

Individual

• Denzil Haroun Reserve Team Player of the Year: 2001–02
• FAI Senior International Player of the Year: 2014^[37]

[tomphil]

3 hours ago, DE. said:

I've actually just remembered we were under a transfer embargo at the time, hence the nil net spend.

Still allowed to hand out contracts to frees of 10k pwk though and some of that business was rank bad. I'm not attaching too much blame to Bowyer because he was inexperienced, probably given certain lists to chose from and he did want to add some experience. However there was far better out there for a club like Rovers paying those wages even in those circumstances.

[DE.]

Just now, tomphil said:

Still allowed to hand out contracts to frees of 10k pwk though and some of that business was rank bad. I'm not attaching too much blame to Bowyer because he was inexperienced, probably given certain lists to chose from and he did want to add some experience. However there was far better out their for a club like Rovers paying those wages even in those circumstances.

Agreed, we brought in some absolute dross. The loans weren't too bad, but Koita, Akpan and Delfouneso, combined with the likes of Lowe, Williamson, Henley, Steele, Brown... it's amazing we didn't go down that year tbh. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Tony "mind games" Mowbray 

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16190247.No_one_will_remember_who_finishes_first_or_second__says_Rovers_boss_Mowbray/?ref=mac  

[roversfan99]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

116 caps for Ireland plus the below. Deficiencies or not, as I said, a career up there with any player. He held his place in one of the best , if not the very best teams we will ever see in our lifetime, for many seasons. He covered practically every position for Utd, including in goals. Should have went to Everton instead of Sunderland when he left united though. 

• Premier League: 2002–03, 2006–07, 2007–08, 2008–09, 2010–11^[36]
• FA Cup: 2003–04
• Football League Cup: 2005–06, 2008–09
• FA Community Shield: 2003, 2007, 2008, 2010
• UEFA Champions League: 2007–08
• FIFA Club World Cup: 2008

Sunderland

• Football League Cup runner-up: 2013–14

Republic of Ireland U16

• UEFA European Under-16 Championship: 1998

Individual

• Denzil Haroun Reserve Team Player of the Year: 2001–02
• FAI Senior International Player of the Year: 2014^[37]

Aye cant argue but still stand by my assertion that he was surrounded by far better players.

That said, hes clearly got something about him just to stay there that long, and make that many appearances.

Feel like hes been poor ever since he joined Sunderland though.

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Tony "mind games" Mowbray 

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16190247.No_one_will_remember_who_finishes_first_or_second__says_Rovers_boss_Mowbray/?ref=mac  

Worrying, hope that attitude doesnt filter through and it is mind games, as winning the league should matter, as should giving us the best chances of winning tomorrow to reward the 3k of us who are making the long journey down.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

8 hours ago, JHRover said:

His trump card may well be Dack. He managed to get £750,000 out of them or however much it was and fast forward 1 year and a promotion and he's talking about a new contract and probably a valuation of 10x that should we sell him in the near future. If Madame can be persuaded to try and replicate that model with 3-4 more players even if only 1 pays off she's still going to turn a profit on it.

I know we're dealing with Venkys here and their plans for the club seem to change on a whim but last summer despite a potentially disastrous relegation they decided to stick with Mowbray and not only that but gave him improved terms and a longer contract whilst backing him in the market. Logic would suggest that having repaid that faith by delivering promotion, repairing the clubs reputation and taking a lot of negative attention away from India that they would look to 'reward' him by backing him once again this summer.

If they don't back us now they never will.

[JAL]

On 27/04/2018 at 17:12, Bigdoggsteel said:

Tony "mind games" Mowbray 

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16190247.No_one_will_remember_who_finishes_first_or_second__says_Rovers_boss_Mowbray/?ref=mac  

Loser

Thought sport was about winning.

[Pedro]

What a lot of people overlook is that when he came here, Mowbray had a dream, to build a football team. He had no money, so signed some players on loan. With Mulgrew at the back and Dack in attack, we're Blackburn Rovers - we're on our way back...

[blueboy3333]

The original lyrics:-

Mowbray had a dream, to build a football team. He had more money than anyone, so he spent 500k on Dom. With Mulgrew at the back and Dack in attack, if he didn't go up he was getting the sack.

[chaddyrovers]

Tony Mowbray turns down Ipswich manager’s job to stay at Blackburn Rovers. https://t.co/n84o4M5PIO