[Archived] coaching staff changes

[JacknOry]

18 minutes ago, den said:

The alternative is for the owners to put that £5m every transfer window into the club - like they promised they would.

Their promises mean jack all.

[Reedy You're A Star]

5 hours ago, Suhail Slayer said:

tbf in Rocky 4, Ivan Drago was training in a CAT 1 academy and Rocky trained Pleasy style in more modest surroundings.... 

so based on the fact Rocky won then surely the CAT 1 academy isn't needed and we will win the league without the financial burden of it.

 

If we die, we die..

[Parsonblue]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

 

Some people are trying to excuse our current situation because of the normal problems in football. Our situation is not normal, it is artificial and we remain on a downward trajectory.

It's one thing supporting the club through thick and thin. It's another to make excuses to avoid holding Venkys accountable just because there's nothing we can do about them people have not done anything whilst watching our demise and now, I would speculate, wish to absolve themselves of any guilt. 10,000 fans marching against Kean may have brought about an earlier change when we still had options, instead we had 1% and played into the hands of those with money to make out of our ruin. Now "we are where we are".

I know you won't like this post - or are likely to take offence on behalf of others - but there it is.

You are keen on the history of the club Stuart so you no doubt recognise similarities between our situation now and in, say, the 1930s when the directors made a series of appalling decisions, sold any player of any worth and then declared that no money would be reinvested in the club.  That led to a decline that saw the Rovers relegated for the first time in its history.  There are any number of clubs which have suffered because of the incompetence of the boardroom.  There are any number of reasons why clubs hit hard times but usually they can be traced back to decisions made in the boardroom, so in that respect this is a decline which other clubs have suffered because of poor decision making at the top.

I've yet to meet any supporter who feels guilty about our present situation and the fact that we didn't have 10,000 fans marching suggests that people have different opinions to yourself - that's life, people think differently.  Of course the owners are responsible for the present situation but at the end of the day they own the club not you or I.  They clearly have decided to limit investment in the club which, ultimately, is their right.  Like so many owners of our football clubs they are here for business reasons.  They have clearly found a way of making the ownership of Blackburn Rovers work for them in some way which is why they show no signs of leaving.

If you find the whole situation so unpalatable then not renewing your season ticket is obviously the way to go - as many have done already.  Others have opted to continue to ride out the storm and wait for better times in the future.  Venky's may be here for another year or two or another decade - nobody knows.  The only decision that supporters can make is whether to continue to support the club under its present ownership or walk away.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Stuart said:

Couldn't disagree more.

Do straw man arguments somehow make you feel superior? If you don't boo and shout, of course that doesn't automatically make you an apologist.

You are not daft, nor do I think that you are as naive as that post suggests. But only a fool could look at the last 7 years and have a positive view about the direction the club is going in. You seem to be equating asset stripping with profiteering, when all that we have seen is assets being stripped from the club - for whatever reason.

If one looks for reasons to justify the club's position (despite the Raos being very wealthy owners) then yes, it would mean making apologies on their behalf.

I'm sorry but we can't expect them to invest because of FFP...

I'm sorry but we can't be held to ransom by mercenary players...

I'm sorry but no decent manager would touch us with a barge pole...

I'm sorry but the players we are letting go just aren't good enough...

I'm sorry but the players not performing isn't the fault of the manager or the owners...

I'm sorry but we can't expect to compete with the likes of Huddersfield...

I'm sorry but academies are just not cost effective for a League One club...

I'm sorry but we can't expect to hold on to our brighter youngsters because of EPPP...

Meanwhile Rovers are badly and deeply affected and the Raos continue to make pots of cash for their shareholders.

Some people are trying to excuse our current situation because of the normal problems in football. Our situation is not normal, it is artificial and we remain on a downward trajectory.

It's one thing supporting the club through thick and thin. It's another to make excuses to avoid holding Venkys accountable just because there's nothing we can do about them people have not done anything whilst watching our demise and now, I would speculate, wish to absolve themselves of any guilt. 10,000 fans marching against Kean may have brought about an earlier change when we still had options, instead we had 1% and played into the hands of those with money to make out of our ruin. Now "we are where we are".

I know you won't like this post - or are likely to take offence on behalf of others - but there it is.

When you weigh it up like that there's been more excuses made on here than conspiracies. 

 

[JBiz]

5 hours ago, Stuart said:

Couldn't disagree more.

Do straw man arguments somehow make you feel superior? If you don't boo and shout, of course that doesn't automatically make you an apologist.

You are not daft, nor do I think that you are as naive as that post suggests. But only a fool could look at the last 7 years and have a positive view about the direction the club is going in. You seem to be equating asset stripping with profiteering, when all that we have seen is assets being stripped from the club - for whatever reason.

If one looks for reasons to justify the club's position (despite the Raos being very wealthy owners) then yes, it would mean making apologies on their behalf.

1. I'm sorry but we can't expect them to invest because of FFP...

2. I'm sorry but we can't be held to ransom by mercenary players...

3. I'm sorry but no decent manager would touch us with a barge pole...

4. I'm sorry but the players we are letting go just aren't good enough...

5. I'm sorry but the players not performing isn't the fault of the manager or the owners...

6. I'm sorry but we can't expect to compete with the likes of Huddersfield...

7. I'm sorry but academies are just not cost effective for a League One club...

8. I'm sorry but we can't expect to hold on to our brighter youngsters because of EPPP...

Meanwhile Rovers are badly and deeply affected and the Raos continue to make pots of cash for their shareholders.

Some people are trying to excuse our current situation because of the normal problems in football. Our situation is not normal, it is artificial and we remain on a downward trajectory.

It's one thing supporting the club through thick and thin. It's another to make excuses to avoid holding Venkys accountable just because there's nothing we can do about them people have not done anything whilst watching our demise and now, I would speculate, wish to absolve themselves of any guilt. 10,000 fans marching against Kean may have brought about an earlier change when we still had options, instead we had 1% and played into the hands of those with money to make out of our ruin. Now "we are where we are".

I know you won't like this post - or are likely to take offence on behalf of others - but there it is.

Straw man arguments never make me feel superior, but you abject inability to discuss with anyone who disagrees or has previously disagreed with you shines through brightly.

The only thing I can soundly agree on is "you are not daft"...

You seem to love answering your own arguments with more argument. I don't think anyone in their right mind can say they are "positive about the direction the club is going" but it seems a small bunch (including yourself) would rather wallow in argument and past mistakes than analyse decisions made in the context of 2017/18 season.

This list is completely out of context, and I can't quite fathom why you ranted so I thought I'd look at each one individually(

1. I'm sorry but we can't expect them to invest because of FFP...

This isn't an excuse, it's a fact. Why did we spend a few months in embargo? Did I imagine this? If the discussion is "could better owners find ways round embargo" then yes, I agree but I don't think anyone disagrees here? Look at QPR, Boro and Leicester, they flaunted it. Was it convenient for the Raos? Probably but it's hardly something that defines this problem you have with fans seeing things differently.

2. I'm sorry but we can't be held to ransom by mercenary players...

Not something I've ever heard said. Again, what's the problem? Is this genuinely being played out as an excuse for the owners? Makes no sense. Feel free to explain.

3. I'm sorry but no decent manager would touch us with a barge pole...

Ive heard this, but again it's completely on a tangent to your point - I don't recall ANYONE suggesting positives from the ownership nevermind bringing this in as an excuse for their failure? I'm only at 3 and I'm genuinely lost.

4. I'm sorry but the players we are letting go just aren't good enough...

Ahh, I get it now. You're just listing all the things you've disagreed with people on as some sort of justification for your retort to parson blue. People have their opinion, ie I think we will miss JL but you don't. 

5. I'm sorry but the players not performing isn't the fault of the manager or the owners...

Again, irrelevant to the initial retort because it's just a view that lacks substance. I don't think anyone has ever used that excuse but I'll let you find it and prove me wrong.

6. I'm sorry but we can't expect to compete with the likes of Huddersfield...

Right now, how can we? Looking at the flip flop from the minute we signed rhodes from them up to now, they've risen due to more than investment. We had investment but we also lacked their decision making process. That's genuinely lamentable but we won't be challenging these teams again until we've seen of Dale, Bury and Fleetwood!

7. I'm sorry but academies are just not cost effective for a League One club...

How can a cat 1 academy be cost effective when the facility cost is nearly the entire clubs turnover before wages? This isn't an excuse, it's a viewpoint. Do you really think Rovers fans want rid of Jacks Gift? Do you think Rovers fans would take a step back if it gave us more chance of promotion? I would personally.

8. I'm sorry but we can't expect to hold on to our brighter youngsters because of EPPP...

This again, you're talking about a team with 40+ other teams in front in terms of standings, and probably 35/40 in terms of turnover. 

How does one expect this to unfold when trying to get the best u11/12 players? It's simple.

Im still waiting for your answer to BDS. You love to criticise others and put labels on them for their perceived lack of action or intolerable opinions, what are you doing that's going to change our fortunes?

Having a view on certain individual aspects of our demise is not complicit in some scheme to absolve the owners of their mess. The post you made, I don't "like or dislike", I just can't fathom where you get off suggesting those who disagree are trying to rid themselves of "guilt"..

 

[JBiz]

3 hours ago, tomphil said:

When you weigh it up like that there's been more excuses made on here than conspiracies. 

Sorry TP, but these aren't excuses for the owners they are just a list of things Stuart can't stand being questioned about.

+ it would take a million excuses to bury the list of made up scandals this website has seen in 7 years.

[blueboy3333]

8 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

 

He is not alone though.

Others, like me, can't be arsed bothering arguing anymore with strangers on MBs.

He's not alone in what?

[Stuart]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Sorry TP, but these aren't excuses for the owners they are just a list of things Stuart can't stand being questioned about.

+ it would take a million excuses to bury the list of made up scandals this website has seen in 7 years.

It's amazing the little cliques that have formed on here over the last couple of years. Seems to have started when Bowyer began his Ewood revolution and everyone started believing again. Look how that turned out.

The fact is that fans have now rolled over and accepted that we are stuck and nothing will change. I just 'can't stand' people trying to excuse where we are with bad timing and circumstances.

Anyway, that me done for a bit. Some fans genuinely deserve owners like Venkys.

[Hasta]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

Sorry TP, but these aren't excuses for the owners they are just a list of things Stuart can't stand being questioned about.

+ it would take a million excuses to bury the list of made up scandals this website has seen in 7 years.

You mean scandals like:-

JA is suggesting transfers which JW  is not involved in.

Allardyce was sacked knowing Steve Kean would be placed in permenant charge.

Experienced First team players are being sold off to allow incoming transfers from JA stable and youngsters to take their place

Ryan Nelson won't play again this season but isn't actually injured.

Steve Kean gets heavily rewarded no matter what division he is in.

Singh is working in the owners interests but Shagnew are working for themselves.

We are paying out for high-interest short term loans and have mortgaged the season tickets.

Rhodes will be sold and Lambert won't see any of the money.

Lambert will walk because he isn't being backed.

 

You could probably go on and on. There are a million others which people branded as being negative rumours which ultimately have been found to be true. Far more than you would expect at a 'normal' football club. Is it any wonder it is easy to believe most stories.

At any point Venkys could have run the club properly, invested and seen an upturn in fortune. They didn't and they still won't. Most of Stuart's 8 points look perfectly valid to me.

[JBiz]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

It's amazing the little cliques that have formed on here over the last couple of years. Seems to have started when Bowyer began his Ewood revolution and everyone started believing again. Look how that turned out.

The fact is that fans have now rolled over and accepted that we are stuck and nothing will change. I just 'can't stand' people trying to excuse where we are with bad timing and circumstances.

Anyway, that me done for a bit. Some fans genuinely deserve owners like Venkys.

Oh come on Stuart, there is only one clique on this website and it's Blackburn Rovers fans. Cant you see from other's point of view? I obviously understand and remember most of what's gone on and I can empathise with those who see some prospect of a successful upcoming season within the remit of expectation.

I'm not talking about the big picture, that remains in obvious turmoil. I can't really predict what is going to happen, I don't buy into many of the schemes suggested without any real basis bar coincidence and rumour. Neither of us want or really deserved what happened to our club, but none of us have any true guilt. I find that remark pretty obnoxious.

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Hasta said:

You mean scandals like:-

JA is suggesting transfers which JW  is not involved in.

Allardyce was sacked knowing Steve Kean would be placed in permenant charge.

Experienced First team players are being sold off to allow incoming transfers from JA stable and youngsters to take their place

Ryan Nelson won't play again this season but isn't actually injured.

Steve Kean gets heavily rewarded no matter what division he is in.

Singh is working in the owners interests but Shagnew are working for themselves.

We are paying out for high-interest short term loans and have mortgaged the season tickets.

Rhodes will be sold and Lambert won't see any of the money.

Lambert will walk because he isn't being backed.

 

You could probably go on and on. There are a million others which people branded as being negative rumours which ultimately have been found to be true. Far more than you would expect at a 'normal' football club. Is it any wonder it is easy to believe most stories.

At any point Venkys could have run the club properly, invested and seen an upturn in fortune. They didn't and they still won't. Most of Stuart's 8 points look perfectly valid to me.

You bring another list, perhaps more meant to be rumours, or excuses? Who knows, this is just so convoluted.

All of those are legitimate grounds for anyone's true anger- all should be directed at the clubs so conversed owners.

The point is, this retort comes down to someone basically suggesting this season could potentially see a return if certain things happen - why is that making excuses for the owners?

Most of what you write is actual public knowledge, nor legitimate grounds to excuse owners behaviour? The fact that certain posters refer to our "beloved" ex criminal manager of a "Cumbernauld" persuasion as part of "the Scottish mafia" says it all about the swathes of random unfounded scandal I've read here.

 

[47er]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

Anyway, that me done for a bit. Some fans genuinely deserve owners like Venkys.

And Biz is one of them.

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, 47er said:

And Biz is one of them.

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

11 hours ago, Bluebarley said:

Of course not! My way is keeping doors open & engagement & open dialogue.

What makes you think after the last seven years that " keeping doors open & engagement & open dialogue " will lead anywhere at all ? Just one example will do.

[Skiptonrover]

13 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

What makes you think after the last seven years that " keeping doors open & engagement & open dialogue " will lead anywhere at all ? Just one example will do.

Wasn't shebby Singh involved in communications before as a global advisor albeit briefly???

[chaddyrovers]

On 7/11/2017 at 10:03, perthblue02 said:

Eric Kinder Leaves the academy role with immediate effect

https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2017/july/kinder-leaves-academy-role

Eric Kinder has joined Limerick as number 2 to Neil McDonald who is manager. Was here as number 2 to Big Sam

[Blue blood]

On ‎14‎/‎07‎/‎2017 at 12:04, Bluebarley said:

Wasn't shebby Singh involved in communications before as a global advisor albeit briefly???

And that worked so well...

 

On Kinder disappointed he's left as he did a good job at Carlisle and we've had a few players come through whilst he's been in charge. 2 of the 3 Raya and Lenihan I rate quite a bit. (If he wasn't responsible that lessens my disappointment somewhat.)

One conclusion from all this is we're really banking everything on TM which Imo is a little risky. He's a decent bloke and competent but I'm not convinced that's quite enough to manage all aspects of the club, especially with the hindrance of the owners.

[Parsonblue]

2 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Eric Kinder has joined Limerick as number 2 to Neil McDonald who is manager. Was here as number 2 to Big Sam

Yes.  McDonald went to Carlisle when Sam left and took Eric - who was our Under-16 coach at that point - with him to look after the youth and reserves at Brunton Park.

[Skiptonrover]

32 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

And that worked so well...

 

On Kinder disappointed he's left as he did a good job at Carlisle and we've had a few players come through whilst he's been in charge. 2 of the 3 Raya and Lenihan I rate quite a bit. (If he wasn't responsible that lessens my disappointment somewhat.)

One conclusion from all this is we're really banking everything on TM which Imo is a little risky. He's a decent bloke and competent but I'm not convinced that's quite enough to manage all aspects of the club, especially with the hindrance of the owners.

For what it's worth I didn't mind Shebby I probably fall into a minority with that view. Shebby had his faults you know but overall wasn't a bad guy. I only quoted Shebby in defence before because it was being made out nobody ever told us anything when Shebby was about that wasn't the case. The communication after Shebby started to fall apart & now comes back in dribs & drabs on a need to know basis.

[Blue blood]

7 minutes ago, Bluebarley said:

For what it's worth I didn't mind Shebby I probably fall into a minority with that view. Shebby had his faults you know but overall wasn't a bad guy. I only quoted Shebby in defence before because it was being made out nobody ever told us anything when Shebby was about that wasn't the case. The communication after Shebby started to fall apart & now comes back in dribs & drabs on a need to know basis.

It's all comparative - he wasn't a snake of the shagnew ilk but his faults were huge:

Slating our players in public

Making us look like a laughing stock with his comments

The Portugese"footballers" signed

interfering in Bowyer's team selections.

The man was a clueless idiot whose saving grace was he disliked the even more corrupt and incompetent vermin residing at Ewood.

[Skiptonrover]

Just now, Blue blood said:

It's all comparative - he wasn't a snake of the shagnew ilk but his faults were huge:

Slating our players in public

Making us look like a laughing stock with his comments

The Portugese"footballers" signed

interfering in Bowyer's team selections.

The man was a clueless idiot whose saving grace was he disliked the even more corrupt and incompetent vermin residing at Ewood.

He bumbled on alot I can remember I think it was the savage interview & radio lancs where he joked alot I can see how to some people that caused some embarrassment. I think he got alot of unfair press & exaggerated bad comments which were misconstrued. He wasn't everybody's cup of char I can understand that. At the time I didn't & still don't believe 75% of what was alleged that he had done. Each to there own I guess I don't miss the bloke put it that way but didn't mind him when he was here due to the reasons mentioned above.

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, Blue blood said:

And that worked so well...

On Kinder disappointed he's left as he did a good job at Carlisle and we've had a few players come through whilst he's been in charge. 2 of the 3 Raya and Lenihan I rate quite a bit. (If he wasn't responsible that lessens my disappointment somewhat.)

One conclusion from all this is we're really banking everything on TM which Imo is a little risky. He's a decent bloke and competent but I'm not convinced that's quite enough to manage all aspects of the club, especially with the hindrance of the owners.

He could also leave at any time. He really is the one good thing about the club at the minute but even he (probably unfairly) has our relegation on his CV.

Hopefully Mowbray adds a couple of strikers but I hope that it's not at the expense of our academy status.

Which triggers an interesting thought about the 'legacy' of each of our "managers":

Kean - relegation and the dismantling of a successful team, and fissure of the fanbase. Brought about the circumstances that delivered a punditry-shaped answer to an agency-shaped problem. Forevermore unwelcome in Blackburn.

Berg - added insult to injury with £2m added to our debt and the start of the break up of the boardroom. Exposed the laughing stock at the club both by his appointment and sacking. Boardroom in-fighting blighting any chance he might have had.

Appleton - Legacy? No. Except to further put the farce under the microscope and create a stability vacuum to be filled by...

Bowyer - re-instilled some parochial pride early on but ultimately threw away our final hopes of promotion by making 'stability' a cipher for our negative football - epitomised by making Lowe the focal point of the side, whilst being unable or unwilling to get the best out of a (now) breathtaking embarrassment of riches at his playing disposal. Sadly towards the end he looked like taking us down. Also ended the record we had over Burnley.

Lambert - a real resurgence of hope that we had turned a corner when he arrived, bringing in a professional back room team. Yet ultimately froze out and sold our talismanic striker (to the delight of many), presumably on the basis that he would be given money to spend. Which he wasn't. Tempted fate by talking about improving the quality of football whilst in reality grinding out just enough for our survival once he had (allegedly) decided that it wasn't the job he was sold - as he must have half-suspected given the contract clause he had inserted. We didn't see the best of him by any stretch. Legacy? Probably Elliott Bennett and whatever a tribunal gives us for Mahoney.

Coyle - a loser before he came, a loser while he was here and a loser when he left. Found Kean's trusty book of 'Dew, Forfeits and 99 other excuses' and quoted with aplomb. Legacy: making longest-servant Lowe his captain, a player to put the manager's ideas into action on the field, while adding millions to his value. Which then saw him leave on a free. De facto relegated us.

Mowbray - a poor man's Bobby Robson who walked into a relegation scrap and took it to the last day - which would have been enough but for the Wagner effect. Could talk football for as long as it took him to suck through a family-sized back of Werther's Originals. Has tidied up the playing staff, or will if he can get a deal to move Stokes out and convince Dack that football is a team game and nobody should be playing with by themselves. There's still time but hope his legacy is not to sell the family China for the club's short term gain, and have no academy to fall back on. Unless of course he somehow manages back-to-back promotions and is around when the Rao family sell us to China for the club's long term gain.

Jack Walker's legacy was the Walker Trust.

The Walker Trust legacy is Venkys.

Wonder what theirs will be...?

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

23 hours ago, Bluebarley said:

For what it's worth I didn't mind Shebby I probably fall into a minority with that view. Shebby had his faults you know but overall wasn't a bad guy. I only quoted Shebby in defence before because it was being made out nobody ever told us anything when Shebby was about that wasn't the case. The communication after Shebby started to fall apart & now comes back in dribs & drabs on a need to know basis.

My God.

The man was a complete chancer,his infamous speech at the King Georges Hall fan forum was embarrassing and was almost universally met with derision.

Shebby Singh...OH MY!!

 

[arbitro]

2 hours ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

My God.

The man was a complete chancer,his infamous speech at the King Georges Hall fan forum was embarrassing and was almost universally met with derision.

Shebby Singh...OH MY!!

 

I was there also and for a while I thought I'd gone into the Comedy Club in error. He was an absolute knob who shouldn't have been anywhere near ANY professional football club. I still cringe when I see that picture of him in a training top with SS on it.

[Bigdoggsteel]

I saw Shebby in numerous interviews and found him a likeable guy who genuinely wanted to do well for the club and fans. He looked  a bit goofy and there was a particularly toxic atmosphere around the club when he was here, which made things very hard for him. I don't see how someone could dislike the guy though.