[Archived] Transfers Part 3

[JAL]

5 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

I'm afraid Cat 1 is a big marker for the quality of player it's the highest level available to young players to play at outside of men's football so attracts players

when a young player leaves a United, City, Liverpool, Chelsea etc which most do they will look to be involved in the game at the highest level possible this is why the players rovers have picked up from the local big clubs end up here

i know for a fact Rankin-Costello Butterworth and Lewis Thompson came to Rovers after leaving United as the club had a Cat 1 academy and it's important for these players to be tested at the highest level possible

its no coincidence that the clubs that make it into the last eight of the FAY cup are 90% of the time Cat 1 clubs that is down to players and competition for places not coaches and facilities 

 

The three players mentioned were they brought to the club through agents ?

[RoversClitheroe]

7 minutes ago, JAL said:

The three players mentioned were they brought to the club through agents ?

This a wind up? 

[chaddyrovers]

10 minutes ago, JAL said:

The three players mentioned were they brought to the club through agents ?

who cares as long as they perform and develop here and into the first team?

obsession with agents? maybe their parents are their agents?

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

Henley had some good and bad games but got worst as time went on. Plus too many injuries. 

I thought Doyle and Tomlinson should have got their chances last season to be back up players instead of us signing Hendrie and Byrne on loan who were very poor for us and barely played

I can't be bothered looking but I'm pretty sure at the start that you thought Byrne was a good signing.

Either way some revisionism going on here as they initially were brought in as first teamers and only when they tanked did Clueless mention the idea they may be squad players. It was clear tosh and bad judgement.

And the idea that Doyle and Tomlinson were ready last year for championship football??? Not a chance. Plus what we needed which neither the loans or youngsters could give us namely quality championship standard additions. Debating Byrne or Tomlinson is like debating between a scooter and a tricycle when we need a car.

[SkipDonoghue]

22 minutes ago, JAL said:

The three players mentioned were they brought to the club through agents ?

No....

Rankin-Costello would probably have got a scholarship at United if he had hung around he was a regular in there u16s at the time but was never really settled at United....and pushed to leave due to the bottle neck that occurs as you progress through the age groups at clubs like United...there were coaches at United who were shocked when he was allowed to leave....he came to Rovers through one of the scouts who his parents know and was signed by Phil Cannon

Butterworth played regularly for Uniteds u16s he was also brought in by them in the week to train during school he missed out on a scholarship by the skin of his teeth at United his parents also know the same scout as above as these lads were scouted by many clubs as very young players and some scouts stay in touch with parents due to the fact they know lads will likely have to leave the so called bigger clubs at some point 

Lewis Thompson was brought in by an agent and had an offer from Leicester City but chose Rovers because of location and pathway....he was initially schooled full time by United but chose to give it up and go back to part time in the academy...I don't know this for sure but that decision may have cost him a scholarship at United but will never know for sure

they all have agents now as the game forces players into getting one the game and clubs are not a lover of agents but can't function with out them

[RoversClitheroe]

What happened to Phil cannon? Wasn't he a fantastic head of youth?

[SkipDonoghue]

5 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

What happened to Phil cannon? Wasn't he a fantastic head of youth?

Apparently he left due to ill health....the last I heard he was Chelsea's scout for the Northwest

[Lancaster Rover]

1 hour ago, SkipDonoghue said:

I'm afraid Cat 1 is a big marker for the quality of player it's the highest level available to young players to play at outside of men's football so attracts players

when a young player leaves a United, City, Liverpool, Chelsea etc which most do they will look to be involved in the game at the highest level possible this is why the players rovers have picked up from the local big clubs end up here

i know for a fact Rankin-Costello Butterworth and Lewis Thompson came to Rovers after leaving United as the club had a Cat 1 academy and it's important for these players to be tested at the highest level possible

its no coincidence that the clubs that make it into the last eight of the FAY cup are 90% of the time Cat 1 clubs that is down to players and competition for places not coaches and facilities 

 

I agree it's the highest level however that doesn't always translate to output or first team players or the overall quality of recruits. It is also only a marker for a player at a given time. There has also been a marked change in academies since the inception of EPPP especially at the highest end of the game. We now have several super academies and I wouldn't be surprised to see them revamp EPPP again within the next few years. 

Our league status will have more of an effect on the quality of our scholar recruits over the coming years than our academy category. Connor Mahoney being case in point, the lad has left first team football to go and play in a development league because their is defined pathway to premier league football.

Its a multi faceted discussion though really as our cat 1 academy as a premier league club is a very different prospect to a cat 1 league 1 club. There isn't the same draw of playing alongside internationals and elite level players, etc. Viewing the academy as a part of a successful premier league club is very different to that of a dysfunctional league 1 club.

 

[SkipDonoghue]

Just now, Lancaster Rover said:

I agree it's the highest level however that doesn't translate to output or first team players or the overall quality of recruits. It is also only a marker for a player at a given time. There has also been a marked change in academies since the inception of EPPP especially at the highest end of the game. We now have several super academies and I wouldn't be surprised to see them revamp EPPP again within the next few years. 

Good point about super academies as the money the likes of City and Chelsea put into their academies closely followed by your Spurs, Arsenal, United, Liverpool Everton etc is frightening and the rest are struggling to keep up 

 

[Lancaster Rover]

Southampton are another that fit into the super academy model to be honest.

our academy is in a really awkward position really. It's well run, meets all the standards and its coefficient of producing professional footballers (not necessarily for rovers) is really good, however it's collateral damage of the clubs mismanagement and general dysfunction.

[Blueandwhitemike]

From this earlier mentioned article

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/15480466._It___s_something_that_we_have_been_looking_at____Rovers_boss_Tony_Mowbray_looking_to_strengthen_in_defence/?ref=mac

“I would have to say that if Lenihan had been fit, (Charlie) Mulgrew, (Paul) Caddis or (Ryan) Nyambe, and (Derrick) Williams, there won’t be many better back lines in this division."

 

This caught my eye for two reasons

1. No mention of Elliott Ward at all, is he persona non grata 

2. TM (almost, not decided about the right back yet) names his preferred defense and it is a back four.

 

Interesting I thought.

 

 

 

 

[OJRovers]

One of the best players in League One over the last few years has been Josh Morris - ex Academy deemed not good enough for the championship.

I never thought he looked anything special at Rovers yet he massively stood out in L1.

This shows that the lads at the academy who are looking special could very well set the league on fire. They just need a chance. 

I actually think that they will be more hungry to do well and succeed that most of the current journeymen in the first team squad. 

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, Blue blood said:

I can't be bothered looking but I'm pretty sure at the start that you thought Byrne was a good signing.

Either way some revisionism going on here as they initially were brought in as first teamers and only when they tanked did Clueless mention the idea they may be squad players. It was clear tosh and bad judgement.

And the idea that Doyle and Tomlinson were ready last year for championship football??? Not a chance. Plus what we needed which neither the loans or youngsters could give us namely quality championship standard additions. Debating Byrne or Tomlinson is like debating between a scooter and a tricycle when we need a car.

Looking at when Bryne was signed and being from Man City and his good loan spell in Holland he look a good signing. But not work out like that. Now at Wigan. Is he even playing there? 

I was talking using Tomlinson and Doyle as back up players last season. Clubs like Southampton and Spurs bring through their youth players and develop them. We dont enough for me. 

 

[JHRover]

24 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Looking at when Bryne was signed and being from Man City and his good loan spell in Holland he look a good signing.

Purely being a product of Man City's academy doesn't mean you are a good un, and certainly doesn't mean you are ready for the Championship. Too much of this attitude around Rovers that if someone is from a certain club that immediately makes them quality and that we should always look bring in loans from the big clubs. Byrne, Hendrie and Samuelsen did nothing that Tomlinson, Hardcastle and Doyle couldn't have done despite all the BS around them joining from Premier League clubs. Coyle signed them because they were as cheap as chips and easy to get done without waiting for Venky approval.

His spell in Holland was with a Dutch 2nd division club so has no relevance to doing a job in the Championship. Probably more like League 2 standard.

[islander200]

4 hours ago, Lancaster Rover said:

 

Roberts is definitely leaving City.

Sky sports reporting he will be going to Celtic on another loan deal.Should be completed next week

[Lancaster Rover]

I think it might even be done sooner now the Hoops have all but qualified for the group stages of the CL. 

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, OJRovers said:

One of the best players in League One over the last few years has been Josh Morris - ex Academy deemed not good enough for the championship.

I never thought he looked anything special at Rovers yet he massively stood out in L1.

This shows that the lads at the academy who are looking special could very well set the league on fire. They just need a chance. 

I actually think that they will be more hungry to do well and succeed that most of the current journeymen in the first team squad. 

You'd think that, but Nyambe and Raya have been a bit so-so in games so far (admittedly better than most of the team, mind). Really think Wharton should be considered as he is at least a centre back by trade. Maybe Platt, R-C and Nuttall too, who both seem to be in fine form. Maybe they'll feature in the Checkatrade Trophy games first?

[blueboy3333]

8 hours ago, SkipDonoghue said:

It's the fact we are looking at other teams youngsters yet again instead of looking closer to home that frustrates me....this kid from WBA is no better than what we have its all because he is at a Prem club that's it as someone said above

The kid from West Brom played in the first team in the Premier league at the weekend. I'd be surprised if he wasn't better than the players we have.

[blueboy3333]

http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-united/sheffield-united-is-another-club-set-to-enter-the-race-for-james-hanson-1-8708942

Potential link to James Hanson, the big target man that played at Bradford for a number of years.

[SkipDonoghue]

2 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

The kid from West Brom played in the first team in the Premier league at the weekend. I'd be surprised if he wasn't better than the players we have.

I know....but I've said in an earlier post and explained how and why WBA specifically do this with young players

theyve done it with Tyler Roberts, John Leko and Sam Field recently and none are regulars 

it all stems from them losing Izzy Brown to Chelsea and Jan Dhanda to Liverpool and it's shows there better thought of players there is a pathway

 

[blueboy3333]

6 hours ago, Lancaster Rover said:

If you want the opinion of someone with FA badges and doing their B license, me! ; )

What badges did Steve Kean have?

[arbitro]

5 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

What badges did Steve Kean have?

Jerome fixed it for me. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, OJRovers said:

One of the best players in League One over the last few years has been Josh Morris - ex Academy deemed not good enough for the championship.

I never thought he looked anything special at Rovers yet he massively stood out in L1.

This shows that the lads at the academy who are looking special could very well set the league on fire. They just need a chance. 

I actually think that they will be more hungry to do well and succeed that most of the current journeymen in the first team squad. 

Or maybe he just became a better player when he found a place that fitted him. 

Completely agree about the academy lads. You can't buy in pride in the jersey 

[cesus]

3 hours ago, OJRovers said:

One of the best players in League One over the last few years has been Josh Morris - ex Academy deemed not good enough for the championship.

I never thought he looked anything special at Rovers yet he massively stood out in L1.

This shows that the lads at the academy who are looking special could very well set the league on fire. They just need a chance. 

I actually think that they will be more hungry to do well and succeed that most of the current journeymen in the first team squad. 

I work with a lad who is a massive Fleetwood fan and he was absolutely raving over Morris when he went on loan there. I don't think he ever actually played for us again after that loan spell, went away did well for other clubs whilst we loaned other clubs dross at the same time. 

[Lancaster Rover]

45 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

What badges did Steve Kean have?

I was being facetious