[Archived] Transfers Part 3

[Speedie Dived]

1 minute ago, Eddie said:

Well, no, that isn't true. The owners have invested money and continue to do so on a monthly basis in order to keep us afloat. 

We're cutting costs, but we're also seeing a fall in revenue. 

There are many criticisms that can be aimed at our owners, but right now they are the only thing keeping the lights on. I wouldn't mind a bit more investment in the first team squad as we are only one or two players away from having a team that should be prohibitive favourites for this league, but they've put money into the team this year. 

Any objective assessment of our squad would be that we are more than good enough at this level. We have spent a lot for this level of football (quite possibly the most in the league, although I do not know exactly how we stack up with others), and we almost certainly have the highest wage bill going. 

Over the last few years, the dislike for our owners has grown to such a level to where every aspect is criticised, even when it is not deserved. 

The amount they are investing on a monthly basis/transfers has decreased. They are not putting more money in, and that's before a potential sale in the next few days.

[Eddie]

If they stopped putting money in, our club would be out of business in the next few days. 

Some of our supporters need a dose of reality here. We may be cutting our wage bill (although not by THAT much this summer) and we may be spending less on transfers relative to what we have in the past, but we now get less money in TV rights, the league, and matchdays. 

 

[Speedie Dived]

Just now, Eddie said:

If they stopped putting money in, our club would be out of business in the next few days. 

Some of our supporters need a dose of reality here. We may be cutting our wage bill (although not by THAT much this summer) and we may be spending less on transfers relative to what we have in the past, but we now get less money in TV rights, the league, and matchdays. 

 

We have lost 16 players, you are talking millions saved.

And i am not thanking owners that have us in league 1, 100 million in debt because they are paying the leccy bill.

[JAL]

17 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Recently mate you have become so negative which in recent years you have always be balanced with your posts

 

Just now, Eddie said:

If they stopped putting money in, our club would be out of business in the next few days. 

Some of our supporters need a dose of reality here. We may be cutting our wage bill (although not by THAT much this summer) and we may be spending less on transfers relative to what we have in the past, but we now get less money in TV rights, the league, and matchdays. 

 

Where's all the money gone ?

 

4 minutes ago, Speedie Dived said:

The amount they are investing on a monthly basis/transfers has decreased. They are not putting more money in, and that's before a potential sale in the next few days.

Let's hope sheff Utd reduced their bid for Lenihan to 500 k with maybe a few add ons. Over a million pounds would be poor.

[JAL]

No more loanees !

[JAL]

15 minutes ago, Biz said:

You use wallowing in your own negativity as a coping method? I can quite easily say that that's exactly the reason you and others can't look objectively at the present time.

I can't blame you for it, but I can't say I'm not bored stiff of it. Over egging the pudding? By being rational and looking at what's currently going on without the pre-conceived view that "ALL LIFE UNDER VENKYS MUST DIE!!!!"?  

In a scenario where we need to be promoted first time, we've added league quality and retained experience - in isolation, that's not a downward spiral - it's potentially a marker to return, even though it's early doors in league 1. You can agree or disagree all you want, but that's my opinion, based on objective facts of the present.

Early days but Rovers have only won two out of the first five games that's less than 50% win ratio and still employ several guys not good enough for the job so optimism is going to be a bit thin at the moment.

Talks cheap it's results that count !

[islander200]

Are Sheffield United even still in for Lenihan?.Their last rumoured bid was weeks ago and they also brought in that centre half from Spurs on a season long loan on Friday

[rovgers]

2 minutes ago, JAL said:

Early days but Rovers have only won two out of the first five games that's less than 50% win ratio and still employ several guys not good enough for the job so optimism is going to be a bit thin at the moment.

Talks cheap it's results that count !

Not being pedantic but have we not played 6 games so far this season, winning 3? ??

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, JAL said:

won two out of the first five games that's less than 50% win ratio!

I'm guessing you don't count Coventry because it's league 2, but count Burnley because it's Burnley... (or you just cant count)

[Parsonblue]

21 minutes ago, Speedie Dived said:

JHRover is only stating facts. The owners have not invested anything extra this summer and are cutting costs again.

Which they are perfectly entitled to do.  The bottom line is that they own the club - whether we like it or not.  If they want to try to make it self sufficient - something Jack wanted to do initially before realising it was impossible - then that is their choice.  The club had been for sale long enough for anyone with the remotest interest in Blackburn Rovers to step in, buy it and take it forward.  Nobody wanted it hence we end up being owned by a family who simply want it as part of a business portfolio which, sadly, is the way football seems to be going in this country.  Some owners will be successful and some won't but ultimately the majority will make their decisions based on business reasons rather than purely footballing reasons.  At the moment our owners appear content to keep the club ticking over which, as Eddie stated, is still costing them money.

[K-Hod]

33 minutes ago, Biz said:

You use wallowing in your own negativity as a coping method? I can quite easily say that that's exactly the reason you and others can't look objectively at the present time.

I can't blame you for it, but I can't say I'm not bored stiff of it. Over egging the pudding? By being rational and looking at what's currently going on without the pre-conceived view that "ALL LIFE UNDER VENKYS MUST DIE!!!!"?  

In a scenario where we need to be promoted first time, we've added league quality and retained experience - in isolation, that's not a downward spiral - it's potentially a marker to return, even though it's early doors in league 1. You can agree or disagree all you want, but that's my opinion, based on objective facts of the present.

My own negativity? Come off it pal. Stop being so obtuse.

I know for a fact you aren't daft, so I'll be as clear as I can, as I've obviously not been clear enough.

I expect the worst from Venky's, because they have continually delivered the worst for the last seven years, so that if they then subsequently don't deliver the worst it's a bonus and I no longer need to 'wallow in my own negativity' as you delightfully put it.

[Dreams of 1995]

5 minutes ago, Biz said:

You use wallowing in your own negativity as a coping method? I can quite easily say that that's exactly the reason you and others can't look objectively at the present time.

I can't blame you for it, but I can't say I'm not bored stiff of it. Over egging the pudding? By being rational and looking at what's currently going on without the pre-conceived view that "ALL LIFE UNDER VENKYS MUST DIE!!!!"?  

In a scenario where we need to be promoted first time, we've added league quality and retained experience - in isolation, that's not a downward spiral - it's potentially a marker to return, even though it's early doors in league 1. You can agree or disagree all you want, but that's my opinion, based on objective facts of the present.

How can you expect people to just forget about the previous 6/7 years because this summer they've spent circa 1m pound? No one can deny that up until now business has been good but we are still a small squad, require more additions to be competitive for 46+ games and that seemingly isn't going to happen unless we offload more players. Bare in mind the FFP are less strict for us this year so you'd usually expect a bit of positive investment if they were serious about 'turning a corner'.

In fact, even by judging them on present they are still single handedly the worst owners in English football. They still haven't appointed a proper board, we are still operating under the supposed leadership of an unknown entity (Suhail), they have still not been present at the club in over 5 years, they are still delaying their response to club issues, we are still massively losing out on extra revenue due to their abandonment of any marketing and they are still so disengaged with the supporters fans of 25+ years are staying away. I will once again reference Vincent Tan to show you that all damages can be repaired - they went down to crowds of sub 4k before he realised he had to change his ways. If he can do it, they can. But they won't.

In any other business if a new owner had dismantled and lost as much value as they have done to Rovers they'd be forced to leave. Unfortunately due to the silly rules of the FA we can't do anything to stop our community asset lose more and more value each year all under the guise of them "cost-cutting".

Just now, Eddie said:

Well, no, that isn't true. The owners have invested money and continue to do so on a monthly basis in order to keep us afloat. 

We're cutting costs, but we're also seeing a fall in revenue. 

There are many criticisms that can be aimed at our owners, but right now they are the only thing keeping the lights on. I wouldn't mind a bit more investment in the first team squad as we are only one or two players away from having a team that should be prohibitive favourites for this league, but they've put money into the team this year. 

Any objective assessment of our squad would be that we are more than good enough at this level. We have spent a lot for this level of football (quite possibly the most in the league, although I do not know exactly how we stack up with others), and we almost certainly have the highest wage bill going. 

Over the last few years, the dislike for our owners has grown to such a level to where every aspect is criticised, even when it is not deserved. 

Every aspect of their ownership deserves to be criticised. They have devalued the club tremendously since taking over so how can anyone trust them?

Any money they have invested has been offset in asset sales. If this wasn't the case our debt levels would have decreased now as they would have plugged the funding gap required to keep the club running and our player sales would have cleared the debt. As is evidenced, weirdly evidenced by someone defending them, it's clear our debts remain above the 100m mark. Strange considering we've sold + that and they've been "funding the club on a monthly basis"........

[Blue blood]

31 minutes ago, Eddie said:

If they stopped putting money in, our club would be out of business in the next few days. 

Some of our supporters need a dose of reality here. We may be cutting our wage bill (although not by THAT much this summer) and we may be spending less on transfers relative to what we have in the past, but we now get less money in TV rights, the league, and matchdays. 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Speedie Dived said:

We have lost 16 players, you are talking millions saved.

And i am not thanking owners that have us in league 1, 100 million in debt because they are paying the leccy bill.

Yes, Eddie's post is somewhat flawed - we're in the position of dependence because they put us there! It's like someone beating you up and putting you in a coma, and being thankful that they're paying for the life support machine. It's their mess that they have created. 

Oh, and even if we somehow gloss over that massive hurdle we're still a shambles - a manager with (seemingly) no-one above him, shadowy directors/advisers of ill repute, chopping and changing the structure DOF, appointing Owen Clueless, lack of communication with the fans. Need I go on? Even recent behaviour is pretty shabby. 

 

9 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Which they are perfectly entitled to do.  The bottom line is that they own the club - whether we like it or not.  If they want to try to make it self sufficient - something Jack wanted to do initially before realising it was impossible - then that is their choice.  The club had been for sale long enough for anyone with the remotest interest in Blackburn Rovers to step in, buy it and take it forward.  Nobody wanted it hence we end up being owned by a family who simply want it as part of a business portfolio which, sadly, is the way football seems to be going in this country.  Some owners will be successful and some won't but ultimately the majority will make their decisions based on business reasons rather than purely footballing reasons.  At the moment our owners appear content to keep the club ticking over which, as Eddie stated, is still costing them money.

No they weren't entitled to do what they have done - which is to destroy the club; £100 million additional debt, halving of the support base, 2 relegations and the dismantling of a very handy Premier League team.  They can, and have, done it but they certainly weren't entitled to - both from an ethical stand point, and also from a contractual/business acquisition point of view - "we will respect what Jack Walker has done". 

And don't give me the guff about our natural level or the circle of football. There's been nothing natural about what has happened - just a steaming pile of corruption, incompetence and abuse. 

 

Edit - Dreams got there first! 

 

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Which they are perfectly entitled to do.  The bottom line is that they own the club - whether we like it or not.  If they want to try to make it self sufficient - something Jack wanted to do initially before realising it was impossible - then that is their choice.  The club had been for sale long enough for anyone with the remotest interest in Blackburn Rovers to step in, buy it and take it forward.  Nobody wanted it hence we end up being owned by a family who simply want it as part of a business portfolio which, sadly, is the way football seems to be going in this country.  Some owners will be successful and some won't but ultimately the majority will make their decisions based on business reasons rather than purely footballing reasons.  At the moment our owners appear content to keep the club ticking over which, as Eddie stated, is still costing them money.

If they want it self sufficient at this level then that is very worrying the aim should be structured investment to get it back at least competing top end championship and look for a self sustainability there.

Jack wanted a self sustaining Prem club and they eventually got it on the right lines before these crooks and clowns turned up but the ultimate aim should be back there not just looking to structure a club to sit in the middle of league one whilst being a vehicle for agents to get game time for their young players to eventually sell on whilst a foreign book cooking exercise under pins it all !

[JBiz]

12 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

My own negativity? Come off it pal. Stop being so obtuse.

I know for a fact you aren't daft, so I'll be as clear as I can, as I've obviously not been clear enough.

I expect the worst from Venky's, because they have continually delivered the worst for the last seven years, so that if they then subsequently don't deliver the worst it's a bonus and I no longer need to 'wallow in my own negativity' as you delightfully put it.

Expect the worst = wallow in negativity. Like I said, you can never justify your own opinion as objective if you are basically convinced there can be only one outcome. 

 

[K-Hod]

Just now, Biz said:

Expect the worst = wallow in negativity. Like I said, you can never justify your own opinion as objective if you are basically convinced there can be only one outcome. 

 

I'm convinced there can only be one outcome with Venky's, because there usually is.

I'm not trying to be objective, I'm basing my future predictions on past behaviours, where the actions have been overwhelmingly negative re Rovers.

[chaddyrovers]

54 minutes ago, Speedie Dived said:

JHRover is only stating facts. The owners have not invested anything extra this summer and are cutting costs again.

Mowbray has spend money this summer on players and still looking for buy players..

He has made 9 signings and we need 3 more. A striker like Hanson, pacey winger and a centre back. 

[JBiz]

Just now, K-Hod said:

I'm convinced there can only be one outcome with Venky's, because there usually is.

Well, at least you can see what I'm saying now. Whilst you are most likely correct - I'm not completely gone from thinking that others might be able to work under them with some degree of *success in future. 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

The owners have invested money and continue to do so on a monthly basis in order to keep us afloat. 

"Invest" really is a poor choice of word, especially when you use it in the same sentence as "afloat"!

[Irishrover213]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

I hope we keep Graham to as a fully fit and motivated Danny Graham is capable of scoring twenty goals in this league.But he looks to be completely out of favour, with him not getting a start against Mk Dons and Mowbray choosing Antonnson ahead of him all the signs are pointing to an exit.If he isn't going to be played by Mowbray it is probably for the best he is moved on as he will probably be the highest paid player at the club and his wage can be used elsewhere.Mowbray and Graham must have fallen out I can't see any other reason why a loanee from Leeds who has done nothing since he arrived to England would be chosen ahead of him

Same here hope we can keep hold of him. If he goes we are left with 2 senior strikers unless there's a striker lined up. 

I thought putting gladwin in ahead of him was a bigger kick than not starting. Unless he was injured on Saturday but don't think he was 

[Blue blood]

Also one of those 2 strikers is the lad from Leeds. Let that sink in a moment...

Our squad needs at least 1 proper striker without Graham going. If he leaves we need 2.  

[arbitro]

2 hours ago, JHRover said:

If rumours are to be believed the only concrete interest in Mulgrew came from Sheffield Wednesday who were offering six figure sums for him rather than the millions.

From Venkys point of view that level of money probably isn't enough to make them get out of bed, likewise when it comes to spending it the other way on Dack/Samuel etc.

They deal in the millions, so if a club offers £2,3,4,5 million for one of our 'star' players e.g. Lenihan then they'll sit up and take notice. Likewise we'll probably never see spending on the level of millions ever again.

If there is a £23m bid for 29 year old Jonny Evans the Mulgrew must be worth at least £8m given that he is (in my opinion) a better player albeit a couple of years older. I genuinely think Mulgrew is much more of a Guardiola type player than Evans.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Phil T said:

"Invest" really is a poor choice of word, especially when you use it in the same sentence as "afloat"!

Exactly. It can't be termed investment when its just paying the weekly bills because that is the owners responsibility also conveniently omitting the 30 mill or so in player sales over the last two years plus addons which will probably mostly be structured and dripping into the club on a regular basis.

I'd say that might well be going a big way towards helping with the running costs or servicing the debt that does.

[FGS5635]

We just need this window to shut. Im more worried about who we lose than who we sign.

I'd happily stick with what we have now as it should be enough to challenege for promotion

[tomphil]

PNE turn down Hugils transfer request and tell him he won't be sold this window.

Meanwhile at Rovers it's always can't possibly keep an unhappy player, it's his fault so lets get him out the door and get the fee etc etc.

Feeble mindedly agency run club as opposed to solid ambitious football first run club.