[Archived] Transfers Part 3

[JBiz]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Apart from Vardy and practically the entire League 1 winning Southampton team  

Leicester.

Vardy, Mahrez, Morgan, Drinkwater, Schmeichel etc - all played in the championship.

All now premier league winners.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

One's an anomaly as I have said and the other was a product of a fantastic youth system that has continued to produce players year after year.

Let's not start comparing a youth system that has given us Bale, Oxlade Chamberlain, Ward-Prowse etc with whether or not Antonsson is good enough for a step up

Jose Fonte , Jason Puncheon, Morgan Schneiderlein.....

[jim mk2]

26 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Andre Gray is a Championship player (he's done nothing in the PL), Jordan Rhodes didn't succeed in the PL, Gary Hooper is a former Celtic player so is actually going down a level and Gayle is prolific in the Championship and not in the PL. All of them (save Hooper) were prolific in the lower leagues because they were above that level in terms of talent. When they stepped up they weren't half as good.

Only decent examples would be Lambert and Vardy of players who "stepped up" but, again, they were constantly a league above what they are playing. I am saying that Antonsson is an average player in this league so he isn't going to be a good player in in a league above.

You said plenty of Premier League players have flopped in the Championship but have yet to name any.

 

Yes, there's no doubt that the current Rovers side, should we win promotion, will need a complete revamp if we are to survive let alone compete in the Championship.

I'd say there's at least 8 players in the team who are OK in the third division but would struggle at the higher level. 

[Dunnfc]

16 minutes ago, Biz said:

Burnley have nowhere near the squad or good players of the teams around them, yet they are there. You cannot compare the individual talent at their disposal with other teams. A lot of that comes down to management, but you try buying one of their players for cheap under the proviso they aren’t “premier league standard”.

 A “premier league player” but not simply someone who “played” or “plays” in the premier league? Other than Vardy, does it count if they cost 18m and 4 years ago played for Hinckley and Luton?

This argument that football has set, fixed levels of ability or only certain levels of “talent” is never going to result in an agreement with me Dreams. The “everybody else agrees with me” stuff isn’t going to make a difference either. 

Over promoting players certainly isn’t advisable, but a wafer thin squad built on loans is also quite a stupid idea, so to re-reiterate, my stance on Antonsson isn’t changing! 

Looking at Burnley:

Defour international for Belgium

Gudmonsson international for Iceland

Vokes international for Wales

Brady and Ward internationals for south Ireland

Heaton an England international 

They've some very good players brought into play a specific system due to their work ethic, personality and how they fit into how Dyche sets them up. Being a fancy dan like Xherdan Shaqiri who turns up once every few weeks is no good for Burnley.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

 

Yes, there's no doubt that the current Rovers side, should we win promotion, will need a complete revamp if we are to survive let alone compete in the Championship.

I'd say there's at least 8 players in the team who are OK in the third division but would struggle at the higher level. 

I don't buy that. You are under estimating team spirit and the unity of a team. Not many people would have Bournemouths squad as one that would hold its own in the Championship, yet it has.  Bristol City almost went down last season, now they are flying high in the league and in the league cup semis. 

Our squad is relativity young, and I believe they will only get stronger. Not saying we wont need additions if we go up, but you are way off the mark saying 8 players "are ok in the third division, but would struggle at a higher level". Who would you put in that category? 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Dunnfc said:

Looking at Burnley:

Defour international for Belgium

Gudmonsson international for Iceland

Vokes international for Wales

Brady and Ward internationals for south Ireland

Heaton an England international 

They've some very good players brought into play a specific system due to their work ethic, personality and how they fit into how Dyche sets them up. Being a fancy dan like Xherdan Shaqiri who turns up once every few weeks is no good for Burnley.

Where? 

[jim mk2]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I don't buy that. You are under estimating team spirit and the unity of a team. Not many people would have Bournemouths squad as one that would hold its own in the Championship, yet it has.  Bristol City almost went down last season, now they are flying high in the league and in the league cup semis. 

Our squad is relativity young, and I believe they will only get stronger. Not saying we wont need additions if we go up, but you are way off the mark saying 8 players "are ok in the third division, but would struggle at a higher level". Who would you put in that category? 

Raya, Nyambe, Downing, Williams, Bennett, Graham, Antonsson, Whittingham, Samuel, Conway. Either not good enough or too old. 

[Dunnfc]

28 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Raya, Nyambe, Downing, Williams, Bennett, Graham, Antonsson, Whittingham, Samuel, Conway. Either not good enough or too old. 

Agree bar Downing. 

[jim mk2]

4 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

Agree bar Downing. 

Spent his entire career scuffling in the lower leagues, mainly with Walsall. We've got him because he can't get in the MK Dons team. Don't get me wrong - he playing well at present and he may get better as he gets older (he's 26) but the chances are he'll struggle against top forwards at the higher level. 

[Dunnfc]

12 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Spent his entire career scuffling in the lower leagues, mainly with Walsall. We've got him because he can't get in the MK Dons team. Don't get me wrong - he playing well at present and he may get better as he gets older (he's 26) but the chances are he'll struggle against top forwards at the higher level. 

It's very much what I thought of him when he signed but I think he along with @Bigdoggsteel think he looks good at this level, certainly no Ooijer type but he's looking like a poor Nelsen version which given out predicament I'd take. 30 million is needed to get 10 players in next year which we need. Downings Positioning, heading is usually spot on and for me is bringing out the best of Mulgrew currently allowing Charlie to be more dictating and ball playing.

Steady Eddie type but he's very passionate about the team and celebrates every goal I'd like to see him work on his tackling. He's 26 just turned? Best facilities he's ever had I see no room as to why he can't bloom here. 

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Raya, Nyambe, Downing, Williams, Bennett, Graham, Antonsson, Whittingham, Samuel, Conway. Either not good enough or too old. 

A bit harsh on Raya, Williams, Bennett and possibly Samuel ( although if we do go up we deffo need a first choice striker) & Nyambe ( I thinks he's a good defender). The rest I agree with. I think Downing would get found out by a lot better strikers in the Championship. The goal against Brizzle where he turned got turned on the halfway line by the pacey forward who went on to score was a bit of an eye-opener.

[Guest]

I think we're getting well ahead of ourselves. Things are starting to look promising, but we aren't even in a comfortable promotion position, yet! Let's get out of this league, first, then we'll have plenty of time to argue about this over summer - IF we're promoted, that is.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

It's very much what I thought of him when he signed but I think he along with @Bigdoggsteel think he looks good at this level

Is he that South Ireland international?

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Raya, Nyambe, Downing, Williams, Bennett, Graham, Antonsson, Whittingham, Samuel, Conway. Either not good enough or too old. 

Conway would be squad player. 

Samuel is a talent and someone Mowbray can develop into a player good enough..

Raya is an excellent shot stopper. 

Bennett is good enough

Graham legs have gone. Dont give him a new deal. 

Downing is good enough as a 3rd choice and yes he hasnt played at championship level but need to be given a proper chance. 

Now for this transfer window we need a pacey winger, centre midfielder to replace Harper. 

[blueboy3333]

4 minutes ago, OnePhilT said:

I think we're getting well ahead of ourselves. Things are starting to look promising, but we aren't even in a comfortable promotion position, yet! Let's get out of this league, first, then we'll have plenty of time to argue about this over summer - IF we're promoted, that is.

killjoy

[philipl]

2 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

Antonsson is here on loan for the remainder of the season, so we don't have to make that judgement just yet.

Goalscorers are gold dust, though. If you score goals, you don't need to worry about the rest of it too much.

!00% agreed.

I am simply happy that the lad who looked a total liability when he started this season has now scored 8 goals and shown versatility in the forward roles he has been asked to play. He looks to be a very decent League One player but if he continues his improvement he might make a valuable Championship squad addition.

I am quietly happy if Watt is coming to us. He has shown in flashes he has that little bit of something extra about him wherever he has gone and Tony Mowbray appears to be the sort of boss who can turn a player's career around if the player is willing it to be turned around.

If you read histories of the Rovers, the club is full of cult heroes who arrived at Ewood under some sort of a cloud or had lost their way. At the very least he gives us a genuine wide forward option and much needed depth until Chapman is restored. And how many League 1 players have scored the winning goal against Barcelona in a Champions League game?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JqgABqp8Y38

 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Conway would be squad player. 

Samuel is a talent and someone Mowbray can develop into a player good enough..

Raya is an excellent shot stopper. 

Bennett is good enough

Graham legs have gone. Dont give him a new deal. 

Downing is good enough as a 3rd choice and yes he hasnt played at championship level but need to be given a proper chance. 

Now for this transfer window we need a pacey winger, centre midfielder to replace Harper. 

I don't think Conway will be good enough next season no matter what league we are in.

[RV Blue]

2 hours ago, jim mk2 said:

Raya, Nyambe, Downing, Williams, Bennett, Graham, Antonsson, Whittingham, Samuel, Conway. Either not good enough or too old. 

Oh dear, you are going to look a right tit in a couple of years (not that you don't already)

[RV Blue]

TWatt is big big mates with Graham, if he is coming in, he definitely won't be coming to replace Graham. I would assume that Graham (and possibly Mulgrew) would have played a huge part in getting Watt back if it happened. I'm not sure I would want him to be honest, he didn't exactly pull up any trees when he was last here.

[Dunnfc]

1 hour ago, OnePhilT said:

Is he that South Ireland international?

Well he's not Northern

[Bigdoggsteel]

45 minutes ago, Dunnfc said:

Well he's not Northern

Nobody has ever called the Republic "south Ireland" before,not even the biggest of morons. Can you actually comment on Ireland without saying something insulting or stupid? 

[chaddyrovers]

Maybe Tony Watt is just training at Rovers whilst his team isnt playing till 5th January?

[tomphil]

3 hours ago, OnePhilT said:

I think we're getting well ahead of ourselves. Things are starting to look promising, but we aren't even in a comfortable promotion position, yet! Let's get out of this league, first, then we'll have plenty of time to argue about this over summer - IF we're promoted, that is.

The familiar Rovers fan affliction, all over social media people now talking like we are up but lose ONE and it'll be sack everybody, Venkys out (last heard when ?) and the old 80's fave which I grew up listening to 'they don't want to bloody go up i'm telling thee' 

[JacknOry]

10 minutes ago, tomphil said:

The familiar Rovers fan affliction, all over social media people now talking like we are up but lose ONE and it'll be sack everybody, Venkys out (last heard when ?) and the old 80's fave which I grew up listening to 'they don't want to bloody go up i'm telling thee' 

Very true. 

But it could be said for football fans of any club.

However, in my opinion we are still below where we should be. Still below our Target. Yes a great run but we are still behind a team we finished above last season , spent more than and have a larger wage bill and had similar in going and outgoings. 

Fair play for TM and the team for this latest run. Keep it up and auto promotion is inevitable. I don't even care too much whether it's 1st of 2nd _ just get us up. 

[tomphil]

8 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Very true. 

But it could be said for football fans of any club.

However, in my opinion we are still below where we should be. Still below our Target. Yes a great run but we are still behind a team we finished above last season , spent more than and have a larger wage bill and had similar in going and outgoings. 

 Fair play for TM and the team for this latest run. Keep it up and auto promotion is inevitable. I don't even care too much whether it's 1st of 2nd _ just get us up. 

Couldn't agree more !

Only other thing i'll say is we will probably lose one soon but I don't think there is a need for an instant meltdown because every time we've lost there's been a good reaction. I do worry though about TMs so called form of losing it a bit in the 2nd half of seasons at former clubs according to various fans. That's why it's important we do get a bit more pace and creativity in the squad so when everyone is fit it genuinely does become too strong for most opposition to cope with, as it should be really.