[Archived] Transfers Part 3

[lraC]

4 minutes ago, arbitro said:

That was some save but in my opinion it was bettered by a Roger Jones save from Les Bradd (I think) at Notts County in 1974. The crowd I was with all compared it to the Gordon Banks save against Brazil in 1970.

Another top keeper we had in the old Third Division was Jim Arnold who was bought by Howard Kendall from non league Stafford Rangers. Unfortunately for us he followed Kendall to Everton where he enjoyed a successful career in the First Division.

I don't remember the Jones save you refer to, but he was one hell of a keeper. I remember Jim Arnold too, who was also superb. I think he was number two to Southall, who the also signed around the same time and I don't recall him doing much after he left Ewood. I had the pleasure of meeting Jim a couple of times and he was a nice bloke.

[Bigdoggsteel]

13 minutes ago, windymiller7 said:

If this doesn't say everything I don't know what does. Just check out the best action shot that the Sunderland Echo could find of Steele in action - no other comment necessary:

http://www.sunderlandecho.com/sport/football/sunderland-afc/sunderland-target-jason-steele-but-blackburn-rovers-boss-warns-they-don-t-have-to-sell-key-players-1-8668276

Be worse if the text under the picture said "Steele in his natural habitat" 

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

We have 5 players who can play there. So you reckon we need 6? 

Yes. We need one that has experience and isn't in love with the physio table. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Yes. We need one that has experience and isn't in love with the physio table. 

If we trust a player so little to keep fit, I would sell them. 

Actually maybe we could target someone who plays centre half and can slot in the backs also. May be handy.

Actually even more handy would be a Dion Dublin or Chris Sutton type! 

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

If we trust a player so little to keep fit, I would sell them. 

Actually maybe we could target someone who plays centre half and can slot in the backs also. May be handy.

Actually even more handy would be a Dion Dublin or Chris Sutton type! 

Your little "lucky you aren't in charge of recruitment" jibe is perhaps a little unfair. Quite clearly you haven't thought this through.

I'm assuming the 5 you mean are Ward, Mulgrew, Lenihan, Wharton and Nyambe or Williams. Firstly, let's rule them last two out as they will be played in the full back role.

Then we move onto Elliot Ward: he has played 13 games for us in 2 seasons in the league. How can you now count on him to give us a full season?

Mulgrew, prior to last season, played 23 games in 2 years. Will you now trust him 100% to stay absolutely fit to cope with the extreme amount of games we are expected to play?

Wharton has had 2 apps for us. What makes you so certain he's ready to step up should one of the above get injured?

So out of all them it's only Lenihan that we can call experienced and dependable.

Now tell me we don't need a centre half. Let's remember this was the same back 4 ravaged with injuries last season and all we have done is add Paul Caddis to it (a player with a bad injury past...) whilst losing Henley, Greer & Brown from last year. You can't possibly come to the conclusion that the defence is all prepared and ready for the rigours of this league.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Your little "lucky you aren't in charge of recruitment" jibe is perhaps a little unfair. Quite clearly you haven't thought this through.

I'm assuming the 5 you mean are Ward, Mulgrew, Lenihan, Wharton and Nyambe or Williams. Firstly, let's rule them last two out as they will be played in the full back role.

Then we move onto Elliot Ward: he has played 13 games for us in 2 seasons in the league. How can you now count on him to give us a full season?

Mulgrew, prior to last season, played 23 games in 2 years. Will you now trust him 100% to stay absolutely fit to cope with the extreme amount of games we are expected to play?

Wharton has had 2 apps for us. What makes you so certain he's ready to step up should one of the above get injured?

So out of all them it's only Lenihan that we can call experienced and dependable.

Now tell me we don't need a centre half. Let's remember this was the same back 4 ravaged with injuries last season and all we have done is add Paul Caddis to it (a player with a bad injury past...) whilst losing Henley, Greer & Brown from last year. You can't possibly come to the conclusion that the defence is all prepared and ready for the rigours of this league.

 

So now you think we need 7 potential centre halves  

I wouldn't put it as a priority to be honest. I'd say we will get someone on loan near the end

[RoversClitheroe]

All we have to do is score more than the opposition. Defence is overrated.

[Dreams of 1995]

4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So now you think we need 7 potential centre halves  

I wouldn't put it as a priority to be honest. I'd say we will get someone on loan near the end

Which is why I said "or". Big emphasis on the or here BDS considering we've not seen Nyambe play there and we can be almost certain Williams will play left back for us. I was confused as to who your 5th man was hence the speculation there.

Yep. That'll do it mate. Let's not bother about plugging the gaping holes in our defence and fill them with panic loans towards the end of the market - we'll definitely get an experienced centre half on loan 4 days before the season starts. Whilst we are at it why don't we bring Brown back?

You are plain deluded if you think defence isn't a priority. What other position would you prioritise over it? Bare in mind we have Graham, Samuel and Nuttall signed up front; we've more than covered our midfield; our full back problem seems resolved with the addition of Caddis. Where on the pitch is a higher priority? 

[StaffordRover]

52 minutes ago, lraC said:

I don't remember the Jones save you refer to, but he was one hell of a keeper. I remember Jim Arnold too, who was also superb. I think he was number two to Southall, who the also signed around the same time and I don't recall him doing much after he left Ewood. I had the pleasure of meeting Jim a couple of times and he was a nice bloke.

I occasionally take my boy to see the Rangers and will ask about Jim Arnold as I believe he is still associated with the club. 

[Blueandwhitemike]

 

Didn't Nyambe play quite well at centre half in the cup game at Leeds last season.  It was a low key game but I remember thinking he did quite well and it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility for him to end up playing there.

I think you have to trust TM's judgment here and if he thinks Wharton is ready for league one (and if he's going to have a good future at the club then I would hope he would be) as he should have seen plenty of him in training and preseason.  TM also knows about that Ward and Mulgrew need managing and I presume he is happy with that.  I can see why this position isn't a priority.

I do however wonder if left back isn't a position we need to look at seriously.  As mentioned previously Williams can play centre half and in fact it may be his best position, I'm not sure how good Jack Doyle is, but if he isn't quite ready to possibly play quite a number of games then I think we need a left back/left wing back.

TM looks like he wants to play 3 at the back at least some of the time and I'm not sure left wing back is really we want to see Williams.  It might be prudent to get in a fast left sided player used to playing both roles before we get a centre back.  This would also free up Williams.

U-23 watchers, aren't there one or two promising centre halves in the team that might be ready to step up in an emergency a la Wharton last season or is it too soon to tell?

 

[Dreams of 1995]

1 minute ago, Blueandwhitemike said:

 

Didn't Nyambe play quite well at centre half in the cup game at Leeds last season.  It was a low key game but I remember thinking he did quite well and it wouldn't be outside the realms of possibility for him to end up playing there.

I think you have to trust TM's judgment here and if he thinks Wharton is ready for league one (and if he's going to have a good future at the club then I would hope he would be) as he should have seen plenty of him in training and preseason.  TM also knows about that Ward and Mulgrew need managing and I presume he is happy with that.  I can see why this position isn't a priority.

I do however wonder if left back isn't a position we need to look at seriously.  As mentioned previously Williams can play centre half and in fact it may be his best position, I'm not sure how good Jack Doyle is, but if he isn't quite ready to possibly play quite a number of games then I think we need a left back/left wing back.

TM looks like he wants to play 3 at the back at least some of the time and I'm not sure left wing back is really we want to see Williams.  It might be prudent to get in a fast left sided player used to playing both roles before we get a centre back.  This would also free up Williams.

U-23 watchers, aren't there one or two promising centre halves in the team that might be ready to step up in an emergency a la Wharton last season or is it too soon to tell?

 

 

But by the reasoning of 3 at the back you've then got 3 positions to fill from a pool of 6 players; 2 of which aren't natural centre halves, 2 of which have injury problems. You are once again in the predicament of having only Lenihan & Wharton to truly depend on.

I honestly don't see how an extra centre half isn't being considered priority now. I also agree with a back up left back but certainly both positions require an equal amount of attention. The only difference is you have Williams who is dependable there whereas at centre half we are relying on players that have, in the past, had long stints on the injury bench. The last thing we need is the window to close and have only Lenihan and Wharton as natural CBs with the possibility Nyambe and Williams might adapt to play there. 

[lraC]

10 minutes ago, StaffordRover said:

I occasionally take my boy to see the Rangers and will ask about Jim Arnold as I believe he is still associated with the club. 

If you do happen to come across him, thank him for what he did for the supporters club he was associated with. I was around 16 at the time and had a sneaky pint on the odd occasion in the Turners Arms on Bank Top Blackburn. Jim was in attendance at a couple of Rovers supporters meeting I was at there and always had the time to mick and help. Very happy memories those.

[Blueandwhitemike]

I was under the impression Williams had played more of his career at centre half than left back.  In an ideal world we could shift Ward and bring in someone more reliable but with his wage and current fitness status it might be hard to justify to the accountants getting another one in before one leaves.

[Dreams of 1995]

5 minutes ago, Blueandwhitemike said:

I was under the impression Williams had played more of his career at centre half than left back.  In an ideal world we could shift Ward and bring in someone more reliable but with his wage and current fitness status it might be hard to justify to the accountants getting another one in before one leaves.

I am only going from what I saw of DW last season. He got player of the year in that position and would assume TM would continue him there. He seemed quite comfortable going forward.

I don't think we will be able to shift Ward even if we wanted too. I truly and honestly believe our fundamental weakness will be our depth of our defence. If we keep Caddis/Nyambe at RB, Lenihan & Mulgrew at CB and Williams at LB we should have a solid back 4 but throw in 1 or 2 injuries into there and you are suddenly looking at an extremely shaky, inexperienced and unfit 4.

He has to improve here or we may face the consequences towards the busy Christmas period.

[tomphil]

44 minutes ago, RoversClitheroe said:

All we have to do is score more than the opposition. Defence is overrated.

Served us well last season that train of thought by clownpants

[Fraserkirky]

Nyambe and Williams can both play in a back three.

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Which is why I said "or". Big emphasis on the or here BDS considering we've not seen Nyambe play there and we can be almost certain Williams will play left back for us. I was confused as to who your 5th man was hence the speculation there.

Yep. That'll do it mate. Let's not bother about plugging the gaping holes in our defence and fill them with panic loans towards the end of the market - we'll definitely get an experienced centre half on loan 4 days before the season starts. Whilst we are at it why don't we bring Brown back?

You are plain deluded if you think defence isn't a priority. What other position would you prioritise over it? Bare in mind we have Graham, Samuel and Nuttall signed up front; we've more than covered our midfield; our full back problem seems resolved with the addition of Caddis. Where on the pitch is a higher priority? 

Why would an experienced centre half come here to be 4th or 5th choice? We are going to end up getting someone on loan akin to Hoban. How much would you be suggesting we spend on a 4th-5th choice centre half? We can't just sign 6-7 players for 2 positions "in case someone gets injured" You were saying the same a while back only it was "because Mulgrew and Lenihan might leave" Now it is because they might get injured. 

With just those 3 strikers, you reckon centre half is more of a priority?  I don't think I am the deluded one  

[philipl]

2 hours ago, arbitro said:

That was some save but in my opinion it was bettered by a Roger Jones save from Les Bradd (I think) at Notts County in 1974. The crowd I was with all compared it to the Gordon Banks save against Brazil in 1970.

Another top keeper we had in the old Third Division was Jim Arnold who was bought by Howard Kendall from non league Stafford Rangers. Unfortunately for us he followed Kendall to Everton where he enjoyed a successful career in the First Division.

I heard so much about that Roger Jones save at the time- was obviously absolutely brilliant.

Echo the shout out for Jim Arnold- he was magnificent in that incredible '79/80 season.

Best save I have seen at Ewood was actually by an ex-Rovers keeper then playing for Brighton- Graham Moseley. Brotherston corner missed by their defence met fully centre of the forehead powered downwards by Jim Craig from inside the middle of the six yard box and Moseley somehow caught it in his midriff diving about two foot off the ground. 

One of those rare times a football ground goes silent in disbelief for a couple of seconds.

Jim Craig was pretty useless but he made Grabbi look lucky. Not the fastest but I recall him breaking the offside trap running onto a perfectly weighted lofted ball only for it to drop onto the top of his shoulder and to the feet of the full back behind him. I thought he was going to burst into tears...

As for John Butcher- "Dracula" because he was afraid of crosses; did he ever catch one?

 

To current transfers, other than Steele going, I'd rather not lose any player Mowbray has earmarked to stay. The reason Championship clubs are after them is that they see the Championship quality we need to get up and stay up. Players in relegation haunted clubs look a different proposition from playing in promotion propositions so I wouldn't take too much notice from Coyle's unfit shambles.

 

[Dreams of 1995]

30 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Why would an experienced centre half come here to be 4th or 5th choice? We are going to end up getting someone on loan akin to Hoban. How much would you be suggesting we spend on a 4th-5th choice centre half? We can't just sign 6-7 players for 2 positions "in case someone gets injured" You were saying the same a while back only it was "because Mulgrew and Lenihan might leave" Now it is because they might get injured. 

With just those 3 strikers, you reckon centre half is more of a priority?  I don't think I am the deluded one  

I'm not suggesting we sign a 4th-5th choice centre half. I'm suggesting replacing the likes of Ward. I'm suggesting buying a first team player because rotation will be key; Mulgrew certainly won't sustain a 46 game season. You are the one assuming we'd signing someone there to be 5th choice - my last choice at CB is Nyambe.

I've always maintained that we need another centre half ESPECIALLY if Lenihan or Mulgrew leaves. You are welcome to trawl through my posts to check. The backup for Mulgrew and Lenihan simply won't suffice and Mulgrew's fitness levels won't allow him to play a full season + cups. You can easily add a defender with quality into this squad hence the presumed interest in that lad from Peterborough.

How on earth is 3 strikers + Costello + Gladwin not sufficient? You can more easily loan a striker than you can a quality, injury free centre half. You are harping on about filling a crucial role like CB with players that aren't experienced or comfortable but I think I'd rather have inexperience up front of the pitch than at the back. We've seen over the years the damage of having a poor defence, do you not learn any lessons?

Didn't Greer come here to be that choice anyway? Like there isn't a suitable centre half for this league that wouldn't come. What planet are you on?

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I'm not suggesting we sign a 4th-5th choice centre half. I'm suggesting replacing the likes of Ward. I'm suggesting buying a first team player because rotation will be key; Mulgrew certainly won't sustain a 46 game season. You are the one assuming we'd signing someone there to be 5th choice - my last choice at CB is Nyambe.

I've always maintained that we need another centre half ESPECIALLY if Lenihan or Mulgrew leaves. You are welcome to trawl through my posts to check. The backup for Mulgrew and Lenihan simply won't suffice and Mulgrew's fitness levels won't allow him to play a full season + cups. You can easily add a defender with quality into this squad hence the presumed interest in that lad from Peterborough.

How on earth is 3 strikers + Costello + Gladwin not sufficient? You can more easily loan a striker than you can a quality, injury free centre half. You are harping on about filling a crucial role like CB with players that aren't experienced or comfortable but I think I'd rather have inexperience up front of the pitch than at the back. We've seen over the years the damage of having a poor defence, do you not learn any lessons?

Didn't Greer come here to be that choice anyway? Like there isn't a suitable centre half for this league that wouldn't come. What planet are you on?

 

Lol at the first comment

On Greer, yes and he was terrible. 

You are including Nutall like he is a guaranteed thing. I bet you hadn't heard of him til we signed him AFTER he was released by Aberdeen. Gladwin isn't a striker. You're using your "may get injured" theory to say we need to sign a centre half ,when we have 6 players who can play there currently, but then tactically ignore the fact that Graham is as injury prone as anyone.

Luckily Mowbray has come out and said a striker is key and it isn't up to fans to decide who we should sign  

[bazza]

4 hours ago, J*B said:

This thread is tremendous. The first thing I do when we're linked with a player is look at their current clubs forums to see what opposition fans think. Imagine Sunderland fans logging into this! 

I was about to say the same.  FFS, folks, shut up about Steele until he's gone.

[Butty]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Lol at the first comment

On Greer, yes and he was terrible. 

You are including Nutall like he is a guaranteed thing. I bet you hadn't heard of him til we signed him AFTER he was released by Aberdeen. Gladwin isn't a striker. You're using your "may get injured" theory to say we need to sign a centre half ,when we have 6 players who can play there currently, but then tactically ignore the fact that Graham is as injury prone as anyone.

Luckily Mowbray has come out and said a striker is key and it isn't up to fans to decide who we should sign  

We do have numerous players who can play at centre half but the point Dreams of 1995 is making is that we need someone as good as Mulgrew and Lenihan for rotation/cover for what is a very long and gruelling season. It's okay having players who can play there but how many of those players would you trust to do a job when coming in for Mulgrew and Lenihan? Wharton hasn't played much first team football for us or in general other than a loan at Cambridge, Williams would do a job at centre back but who would fill in at left back for him? Ward has barely played since signing? And nyambe at centre back? F that. I think we could definitely do with another centre half BUT I agree with you on that we should be signing another striker first, Graham is never fully fit it seems and Samuel is the only other option as Nuttall certainly isn't a first teamer. Get another striker in then a centre half and that will hopefully conclude a good window for us. 

[Mike E]

Personally would like to sign a hard nut at cb in the Andy Todd mold. Only because we seem a bit soft at the back.

 

[Butty]

2 minutes ago, bazza said:

I was about to say the same.  FFS, folks, shut up about Steele until he's gone.

Well I guess he can kick the ball and get his hand to the ball occasionally, what more do they want for 500k? Absolute bargain 

[Blue blood]

I'm with the needing a defender on this one. Another striker would also be good but Mulgrew and Ward cannot be guaranteed to do a whole season and Nayambe and Williams will be needed at full back.

To me it goes to show the squad has quality but is horribly thin. A few injuries - which given some of our players is likely - and we're really struggling. I'd still take quality over quantity but another defender and striker are a must to make the squad feasibly competitive.