[Archived] Transfers Part 3

[neophox]

Seems Rovers want £5m for Lenihan... also trying to get Bogle in. Also Lambert back in the frame...need backup for Graham.

[AAK]

1 hour ago, MGPensioner said:

With the release of the squad, we now know Nuttall was signed for the kids team so he must be discounted from the incomings.

Trading so far - 14 outgoing. 5 incoming. Net minus 9

On track for my long standing prediction of 16 out / 6 in.

If Nuttall does well, he could be promoted in January when we are forced to cash in on Danny Graham.

 

We have signed 6 players, if we are saying Nuttall is a youth signing - Whittingham, Smallwood, Dack, Gladwin, Caddis and Samuel - another keeper is signing so that's 7, Mowbray says 2 more on loans, that will be 9

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Why, have you seen much of him play? What be his main attributes and weaknesses? 

Not seen him play since Rovers' Academy some 10 years ago.

His track record is underwhelming to say the least and it seems he's been without a club for the last 12 months.  Just 130 'competitive' games in 9 years (since leaving Rovers), and in the back of beyond, says it all to me. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brent_Griffiths

 

 

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, MGPensioner said:

With the release of the squad, we now know Nuttall was signed for the kids team so he must be discounted from the incomings.

Trading so far - 14 outgoing. 5 incoming. Net minus 9

On track for my long standing prediction of 16 out / 6 in.

If Nuttall does well, he could be promoted in January when we are forced to cash in on Danny Graham.

 

Which of the 14 that have left were you disappointed about? Loans don't count as we didn't own them.

[Dunnfc]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Which of the 14 that have left were you disappointed about? Loans don't count as we didn't own them.

Loans don't count of course they do, it's basing it on headcount for a comparible basis of squad numbers. I don't remember five years ago depending on a large number of loanees but that's the way Cheston and Venkys want to go they appear to see some benefit in "leasing".

[Parsonblue]

22 minutes ago, meadows said:

Gladwin Smallwood Dack Caddis Whittingham & Samuel are all featured there - that's six. Plus Joe Nuttall. 

 

34 minutes ago, MGPensioner said:

It is anti Venkys to correct your statement.

Please name the 7 as I count 5

https://www.rovers.co.uk/teams/development-squad/profiles/

Only a 12 man development squad ? Bare bones (sponsored by KPMG)

 

I think meadows has shown seven - Nuttall can be included in the first team at anytime the manager choses - you don't need to list a squad as in the Premier League.

The profiles for the development squad haven't been updated as yet but I think you'll find that there were 17 on duty at Marine and 18 on duty at Ramsbottom.  Usually lads from the Under-18's step up as well - as they do at every club under the present system which is why Academy and Development fixtures are on different days.  

[Dreams of 1995]

There's use in the loan market. Watford got promoted with about 6 loan first team players. It's how you use the market that's important.

Being fobbed off with unfit, uninterested players isn't a good way to use the market. When you bring in hungry young lads like Gallagher you see the benefit - they want to secure the best possible contract they can at the end of the season.

[had.e.nuff]

46 minutes ago, AAK said:

We have signed 6 players, if we are saying Nuttall is a youth signing - Whittingham, Smallwood, Dack, Gladwin, Caddis and Samuel - another keeper is signing so that's 7, Mowbray says 2 more on loans, that will be 9

why do youth team players not count coming in but count in the numbers released.

[AAK]

Just now, had.e.nuff said:

why do youth team players not count coming in but count in the numbers released.

I am not saying they don't mate, it was just in reply to MG saying they aren't

[Eddie]

1 hour ago, neophox said:

Seems Rovers want £5m for Lenihan... also trying to get Bogle in. Also Lambert back in the frame...need backup for Graham.

If we could end up getting Bolge, a CB, a backup keeper, and hold on to the rest of our players I would be delighted with this window. 

[JHRover]

41 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

There's use in the loan market. Watford got promoted with about 6 loan first team players. It's how you use the market that's important.

Being fobbed off with unfit, uninterested players isn't a good way to use the market. When you bring in hungry young lads like Gallagher you see the benefit - they want to secure the best possible contract they can at the end of the season.

Watford played the loan market to perfection. The majority of that business was done on the Watford-Udinese-Granada triangle with all 3 clubs owned by the same man. It is a controversial yet effective 'model' that has been effective in getting all 3 of those clubs into their top divisions albeit at the price of a staggering turnover in players and coaches.

I don't think we have the structure, plan or nous to exploit the loan market like Watford have been able to do. 

In our case using the loan market usually takes the form of a cost cutting exercise waiting until the 11th hour and then taking whoever comes available at a knock down rate to avoid having to sign permanent players. Sometimes it works, Gallagher and arguably Emnes were worthwhile additions last season albeit didn't arrive until the season was well underway and substantial damage had already been done. Those loans that we got done early doors by way of younger lads from Premier League academies were a disaster.

In our current situation I would say that our squad of permanently contracted players is too small, and needs expanding before looking at the loan market, however I worry that the permanent/cash business is now done and the wait we are seeing now is because we are holding back until we can pick 2-3 up on loans late on. We have let 14 senior players depart and have recruited 6 senior players, so ultimately whatever opinions are on the abilities of those players there is a void of 8 senior professionals on what we had at our disposal last season.

The minute injuries and suspensions come I worry we will be crippled. We have little/no cover in several key areas - GK, CB, LB, CF - and that is a huge risk.

I hear what Mowbray is saying about wanting 4 more, lets hope those 4 arrive soon and nobody else departs.

[briansol]

1 hour ago, neophox said:

Seems Rovers want £5m for Lenihan... also trying to get Bogle in. Also Lambert back in the frame...need backup for Graham.

Any sources?

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, neophox said:

Seems Rovers want £5m for Lenihan... also trying to get Bogle in. Also Lambert back in the frame...need backup for Graham.

There was strong rumours a while back that Rovers had made Lambert a take it or leave it offer and he'd decided to wait to see if anything higher up came in but if not he'd be happy to take Rovers offer. That was swirling around from the Cardiff end so it maybe he's getting desperate.

I really hope we haven't been waiting around for him to make his mind up.

[JHRover]

59 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Which of the 14 that have left were you disappointed about? Loans don't count as we didn't own them.

It doesn't really matter whether the 14 to depart were dross or world beaters. Fact is that 14 have departed and therefore need replacing. Maybe it doesn't have to be 14 in, but I think more than the current 6 is required.

 

[Mike E]

IF we get Turnbull, Bogle, Lambert (just looking at the rumours mentioned) and a centre back, then I reckon our squad would give some top half championship clubs a run for their money!

I don't want to get too excited as I now work weekends and can't attend, nor do I want the crushing letdown of getting none of them and selling Mulgrew and Lenihan to hit me too hard.

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, JHRover said:

Watford played the loan market to perfection. The majority of that business was done on the Watford-Udinese-Granada triangle with all 3 clubs owned by the same man. It is a controversial yet effective 'model' that has been effective in getting all 3 of those clubs into their top divisions albeit at the price of a staggering turnover in players and coaches.

I don't think we have the structure, plan or nous to exploit the loan market like Watford have been able to do. 

In our case using the loan market usually takes the form of a cost cutting exercise waiting until the 11th hour and then taking whoever comes available at a knock down rate to avoid having to sign permanent players. Sometimes it works, Gallagher and arguably Emnes were worthwhile additions last season albeit didn't arrive until the season was well underway and substantial damage had already been done. Those loans that we got done early doors by way of younger lads from Premier League academies were a disaster.

In our current situation I would say that our squad of permanently contracted players is too small, and needs expanding before looking at the loan market, however I worry that the permanent/cash business is now done and the wait we are seeing now is because we are holding back until we can pick 2-3 up on loans late on. We have let 14 senior players depart and have recruited 6 senior players, so ultimately whatever opinions are on the abilities of those players there is a void of 8 senior professionals on what we had at our disposal last season.

The minute injuries and suspensions come I worry we will be crippled. We have little/no cover in several key areas - GK, CB, LB, CF - and that is a huge risk.

I hear what Mowbray is saying about wanting 4 more, lets hope those 4 arrive soon and nobody else departs.

Spot on, as per.

However you can operate shrewdly in the loan market outside of that model. Whereas we have resigned ourselves to picking up players without a fee attached, or on a relatively small % of wages. In football the phrase "you get what you pay for" might be losing meaning but certainly in terms of loan fees you are severely reducing your chances of getting a good player with the absence of fees. There are obviously anomalies to this.

Overall it comes down to the fact our recruitment process has, for years, been broken. It is possible to field a team capable of competition for a small outlay (see Preston) but we are signing all the wrong players. We are taking punts on players like Wes Brown or Gordon Greer and completely throwing our own under the bus. I'd have much rather we offered Mahoney an extra 7-8k a week than pay Wes Brown to sit on our bench and keep our physio table warm for Tommie Hoban. The people making the decisions at this club are completely inept, or if you ascribe to the 'conspiracy theories', incredibly talented at being rogues.

[Mike E]

2 minutes ago, briansol said:

Any sources?

Neophox is the source. I believe he and Kamy100 are journos.

There are others whose names I don't recall...

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, neophox said:

Seems Rovers want £5m for Lenihan... also trying to get Bogle in. Also Lambert back in the frame...need backup for Graham.

This can take two forms though.

1) That Venkys want to sell Lenihan for £5 million

2) That Lenihan isn't for sale and we are desperate to keep him but that a bid of £5 million+ would tempt us into selling him

If it is the 2nd option then I'd be confident Lenihan will be going nowhere, as I can't see anyone going to that level for him at this stage.

If it is the 1st option then expect a Gestede style pantomime to continue throughout August with repeated 'rumours' of Venkys demanding big money only to then suddenly reduce their asking price by a couple of million late on and the sale gets done in late August leaving us in a mess.

[tomphil]

1 minute ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Spot on, as per.

However you can operate shrewdly in the loan market outside of that model. Whereas we have resigned ourselves to picking up players without a fee attached, or on a relatively small % of wages. In football the phrase "you get what you pay for" might be losing meaning but certainly in terms of loan fees you are severely reducing your chances of getting a good player with the absence of fees. There are obviously anomalies to this.

Overall it comes down to the fact our recruitment process has, for years, been broken. It is possible to field a team capable of competition for a small outlay (see Preston) but we are signing all the wrong players. We are taking punts on players like Wes Brown or Gordon Greer and completely throwing our own under the bus. I'd have much rather we offered Mahoney an extra 7-8k a week than pay Wes Brown to sit on our bench and keep our physio table warm for Tommie Hoban. The people making the decisions at this club are completely inept, or if you ascribe to the 'conspiracy theories', incredibly talented at being rogues.

No surprise that I put most of that type of dealing down to those in the shadows and their assorted pals having too much influence and looking after their own interests first rather than putting the betterment of the team first.

The more desperate the club got the worse it was getting.

[briansol]

1 minute ago, Mike E said:

Neophox is the source. I believe he and Kamy100 are journos.

There are others whose names I don't recall...

If so, then at least indicate the quality of the sources. I can sit here in Norway and pass all Twitter rumours as inside info

[Eddie]

Neophox is usually pretty reliable. He won't just be spreading twitter rumours. 

There are a few posters on here who can be trusted without them having to name sources, doing so might even harm their ability to get information in the future. That doesn't mean that we will definitely sign the players they mention, but it means there is something to it. 

[Dunnfc]

Neophox to be fair is usually pretty reliable. Is that you in the picture Brian Sol?

[cesus]

Can't help think we are 3-4 short of what I would be happy with in terms of numbers a few days before the season. I take that from listening to Phil Brown on the radio on Sunday, he stated Southend had gone for quality over quantity and had 19 players first team ready and if struggling with injuries the youth team would be called in. 

According to the players squad numbers released yesterday we stand at 21 players. We aren't exactly league one battle hardened and even before a competitive ball has been kicked two of the usual suspects Evans and Mulgrew are carrying knocks and Conway is a doubt for Saturday. Graham will struggle to make it until the end of September without some breakdown, so I would say we are still worryingly short of numbers.

[Batman.]

29 minutes ago, Mike E said:

IF we get Turnbull, Bogle, Lambert (just looking at the rumours mentioned) and a centre back, then I reckon our squad would give some top half championship clubs a run for their money!

Sponsored 5km?

[gumboots]

35 minutes ago, Mike E said:

Neophox is the source. I believe he and Kamy100 are journos.

There are others whose names I don't recall...

unleaded was another, Mike. you have to take our word for it Brian that neophox is generally to be relied on to know what is being talked about even if it doesn't happen.