[Archived] Transfers Part 3

[DE.]

19 minutes ago, rhodie said:

I don`t think the quality of players we have at the moment for this league is the problem. I personally think the biggest problem we have is consistency, we keep on blowing hot then cold, it is the main reasons we are where we are.

Our first two league matches have been pretty consistent tbh.

[Bigdoggsteel]

6 minutes ago, roversoutsider said:

Would people take Todd Kane? Don't know what he's been up to recently but he could be a valuable acquisition on loan? Considering he can fill in at both fullback positions and would be a better wingback than what we have currently. Always struck me as a steady player when he previously played for us. Decent going forward too. 

He was on loan at a top Danish club for the past season. Rejoined a few weeks ago. Out of our reach 

[ruggles1995]

to summarise our squad of what we need, and do we have enough to get up -

Goalkeeper - Raya isnt experienced but he did look ok when filling in between the sticks last season, I think he was woth giving a shot as number when you think where we need to spend money, and we need to spend the money we do have wisely as its not a super bidget.

Full backs - They all seem pretty bang average at best, could do with a LB and maybe a decent RB

CBs - we play defensive midfielders by trade there.. I am also not lenihans biggest fan either, having said that hes prob better than any other shower we have. 2 CBS needed.

CMs - For me Mulgrew is our best footballer, I would almost build a side around him, make him our 'Pirlo' if you like. Smallword to be his dirty worker, and mulgrew to play and make things tick. (were covered in CMs, we have enough)

Wingers - conway should be fine at this level, bennet gives us pace, Chapman not seen him really, Whittingham could maybe be used in wide areas with his good deliveries, not pacey but could be used in certain games. I would prob of got in a recognised winger that can do the buisness

ST - Graham has aged but he also knows where the goal is, he needs the right service, he will not be chasing hopeless balls nor out sprinting strikers, he needs good deliveries and creativiy behind him. Dack good addition he will come good, needs to play in behind free role. Samuel, already bagged a couple may come good. Antonnson might be what we need also time will tell.

For me whats a definite is we need a RB, a LB, 2 CBs, another Winger, and maybe another Dack. If anything left over maybe look for an experienced keeper.

 

At the moment we are trying to carry a back four, we arent solid. Get that sorted and we may have enough going the other way. Atm I would go for 4-2-3-1:
Raya
?        ?               ?            ?
    smallwood Mulgrew
Conway    Dack        Bennet
                 Graham

[RoversClitheroe]

4 minutes ago, ruggles1995 said:

to summarise our squad of what we need, and do we have enough to get up -

Goalkeeper - Raya isnt experienced but he did look ok when filling in between the sticks last season, I think he was woth giving a shot as number when you think where we need to spend money, and we need to spend the money we do have wisely as its not a super bidget.

Full backs - They all seem pretty bang average at best, could do with a LB and maybe a decent RB

CBs - we play defensive midfielders by trade there.. I am also not lenihans biggest fan either, having said that hes prob better than any other shower we have. 2 CBS needed.

CMs - For me Mulgrew is our best footballer, I would almost build a side around him, make him our 'Pirlo' if you like. Smallword to be his dirty worker, and mulgrew to play and make things tick. (were covered in CMs, we have enough)

Wingers - conway should be fine at this level, bennet gives us pace, Chapman not seen him really, Whittingham could maybe be used in wide areas with his good deliveries, not pacey but could be used in certain games. I would prob of got in a recognised winger that can do the buisness

ST - Graham has aged but he also knows where the goal is, he needs the right service, he will not be chasing hopeless balls nor out sprinting strikers, he needs good deliveries and creativiy behind him. Dack good addition he will come good, needs to play in behind free role. Samuel, already bagged a couple may come good. Antonnson might be what we need also time will tell.

For me whats a definite is we need a RB, a LB, 2 CBs, another Winger, and maybe another Dack. If anything left over maybe look for an experienced keeper.

Another Dack? We have Gladwin too

[Blow-in]

13 hours ago, Bluebarley said:

I agree the last thing we need is any of that kind of caper at the moment knuckling down and grind out come later in spades. 

Edited that for you.

[JHRover]

18 minutes ago, ruggles1995 said:

to summarise our squad of what we need, and do we have enough to get up -

Goalkeeper - Raya isnt experienced but he did look ok when filling in between the sticks last season, I think he was woth giving a shot as number when you think where we need to spend money, and we need to spend the money we do have wisely as its not a super bidget.

Full backs - They all seem pretty bang average at best, could do with a LB and maybe a decent RB

CBs - we play defensive midfielders by trade there.. I am also not lenihans biggest fan either, having said that hes prob better than any other shower we have. 2 CBS needed.

CMs - For me Mulgrew is our best footballer, I would almost build a side around him, make him our 'Pirlo' if you like. Smallword to be his dirty worker, and mulgrew to play and make things tick. (were covered in CMs, we have enough)

Wingers - conway should be fine at this level, bennet gives us pace, Chapman not seen him really, Whittingham could maybe be used in wide areas with his good deliveries, not pacey but could be used in certain games. I would prob of got in a recognised winger that can do the buisness

ST - Graham has aged but he also knows where the goal is, he needs the right service, he will not be chasing hopeless balls nor out sprinting strikers, he needs good deliveries and creativiy behind him. Dack good addition he will come good, needs to play in behind free role. Samuel, already bagged a couple may come good. Antonnson might be what we need also time will tell.

For me whats a definite is we need a RB, a LB, 2 CBs, another Winger, and maybe another Dack. If anything left over maybe look for an experienced keeper.

 

At the moment we are trying to carry a back four, we arent solid. Get that sorted and we may have enough going the other way. Atm I would go for 4-2-3-1:
Raya
?        ?               ?            ?
    smallwood Mulgrew
Conway    Dack        Bennet
                 Graham

Too late for all that. The players have been signed. Rightly or wrongly the focus of recruitment hasn't included the defence. We've made our bed this summer by backing Mowbray to the hilt and now we have to lie in it. The money has been spent. The Steele cash boost helped pay off most of the money Venkys put in for Dack and Samuel so they didn't insist on someone else being sold. Now we're shopping in the loan department only, and we can't and shouldn't attempt to assemble a new defence from loan players at this stage in the day.

I did warn against this situation over the summer. Throwing everything behind Mowbray in the hope it would work out but if it didn't the whole thing will need rebuilding again. If things continue as they are we're going to very quickly reach a crisis situation with Mowbray under massive pressure but underpinning that a reluctance/fear to make a change because its 'his squad' and Venkys have 'backed him'. Build it up, knock it down, build it up for less, knock it down. On it goes whilst standards deteriorate and the money dries up.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

33 minutes ago, ruggles1995 said:

to summarise our squad of what we need, and do we have enough to get up -

Goalkeeper - Raya isnt experienced but he did look ok when filling in between the sticks last season, I think he was woth giving a shot as number when you think where we need to spend money, and we need to spend the money we do have wisely as its not a super bidget.

Full backs - They all seem pretty bang average at best, could do with a LB and maybe a decent RB

CBs - we play defensive midfielders by trade there.. I am also not lenihans biggest fan either, having said that hes prob better than any other shower we have. 2 CBS needed.

CMs - For me Mulgrew is our best footballer, I would almost build a side around him, make him our 'Pirlo' if you like. Smallword to be his dirty worker, and mulgrew to play and make things tick. (were covered in CMs, we have enough)

Wingers - conway should be fine at this level, bennet gives us pace, Chapman not seen him really, Whittingham could maybe be used in wide areas with his good deliveries, not pacey but could be used in certain games. I would prob of got in a recognised winger that can do the buisness

ST - Graham has aged but he also knows where the goal is, he needs the right service, he will not be chasing hopeless balls nor out sprinting strikers, he needs good deliveries and creativiy behind him. Dack good addition he will come good, needs to play in behind free role. Samuel, already bagged a couple may come good. Antonnson might be what we need also time will tell.

For me whats a definite is we need a RB, a LB, 2 CBs, another Winger, and maybe another Dack. If anything left over maybe look for an experienced keeper.

 

At the moment we are trying to carry a back four, we arent solid. Get that sorted and we may have enough going the other way. Atm I would go for 4-2-3-1:
Raya
?        ?               ?            ?
    smallwood Mulgrew
Conway    Dack        Bennet
                 Graham

So 6 more signings? I wouldn't get my hopes  up if I were you. We can't keep signing players. A lot out business is done, it's now a case of picking the right system and getting thise here in the right frame of mind. 

Mulgrew in midfield could be worth a shout, but as I mentioned in the other thread, I think he is too brittle to play a full game there these days. 

I think we need to sort the holding two midfielders out. I would put Lenihan with Smallwood. The last two games we were repeatedly left with two on two at the back. While Ward clearly had a stinker, the centre halves weren't done any favours by wandering centre midfielders. Smallwood needs support and another fighter in there. If we are playing 3 attacking midfielders in a 4-2-3-1, I don't think we need Whittingham at the moment. Smallwood and Lenihan scrap and win it, then play it up to our front 4. More than enough firepower there. It's our soft belly that is costing us at the moment 

 

[tomphil]

20 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Too late for all that. The players have been signed. Rightly or wrongly the focus of recruitment hasn't included the defence. We've made our bed this summer by backing Mowbray to the hilt and now we have to lie in it. The money has been spent. The Steele cash boost helped pay off most of the money Venkys put in for Dack and Samuel so they didn't insist on someone else being sold. Now we're shopping in the loan department only, and we can't and shouldn't attempt to assemble a new defence from loan players at this stage in the day.

I did warn against this situation over the summer. Throwing everything behind Mowbray in the hope it would work out but if it didn't the whole thing will need rebuilding again. If things continue as they are we're going to very quickly reach a crisis situation with Mowbray under massive pressure but underpinning that a reluctance/fear to make a change because its 'his squad' and Venkys have 'backed him'. Build it up, knock it down, build it up for less, knock it down. On it goes whilst standards deteriorate and the money dries up.

 

If Raya has the wobbles again in this game i'd have the other lad in for Burnley without a shadow of doubt. Looks a unit and what you want more than anything from your keeper is get the basics right, leave the show pony stuff to one side.

[DE.]

15 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think we need to sort the holding two midfielders out. I would put Lenihan with Smallwood. The last two games we were repeatedly left with two on two at the back. While Ward clearly had a stinker, the centre halves weren't done any favours by wandering centre midfielders. Smallwood needs support and another fighter in there. If we are playing 3 attacking midfielders in a 4-2-3-1, I don't think we need Whittingham at the moment. Smallwood and Lenihan scrap and win it, then play it up to our front 4. More than enough firepower there. It's our soft belly that is costing us at the moment 

 

Our team is a little top heavy at the moment so I'm not sure two holding midfielders is the way to go. We're so frail defensively that I'd rather we keep the opposition on the back foot than allow them to come at us by using defensive-minded tactics. As we've seen in the opening two games, it doesn't take much to carve through our backline. Two holding midfielders is not required to keep other teams at bay - we need to be pushing the opposition back, then aggressively defend when we lose the ball and try to win it back as soon as possible. If we defend as a team we can work without two CDM's - I actually think the presence of two holding midfielders causes the rest of the midfield to work less as they think the back line is already adequately covered. The entire team needs to play its part.

Unfortunately the first two games have not seen many of our players displaying the type of attitude necessary to implement the above. I hope I'm wrong and it's just early season jitters, but being handily outworked in our opening two matches does not bode well.

[Bigdoggsteel]

23 minutes ago, DE. said:

Our team is a little top heavy at the moment so I'm not sure two holding midfielders is the way to go. We're so frail defensively that I'd rather we keep the opposition on the back foot than allow them to come at us by using defensive-minded tactics. As we've seen in the opening two games, it doesn't take much to carve through our backline. Two holding midfielders is not required to keep other teams at bay - we need to be pushing the opposition back, then aggressively defend when we lose the ball and try to win it back as soon as possible. If we defend as a team we can work without two CDM's - I actually think the presence of two holding midfielders causes the rest of the midfield to work less as they think the back line is already adequately covered. The entire team needs to play its part.

Unfortunately the first two games have not seen many of our players displaying the type of attitude necessary to implement the above. I hope I'm wrong and it's just early season jitters, but being handily outworked in our opening two matches does not bode well.

Yes, we are top heavy, hence two defensive midfielders would give us more balance and  aggression in the area where we are weak. I take your point that the team needs to work harder and ideally pressure the opposition the second we lose the ball. At the moment we need to scrap and get some momentum going as our passing game isn't slick or direct enough. We need solidity and tacklers in there. 

If the players don't work as hard because we have two defensive midfielders playing, it comes back to your point about attitude. 

I think we have enough attacking quality in the side to allow us two defensive, battling and aggresive midfielders. Mowbray spoke before the season started about soldiers and artists, I prefer the term gods and dogs. Every successful team had its share of dogs. At the moment we have too many gods of  the worst kind. God's in their own minds only. We need to scrap some wins and then grow into the type of play you mention and I believe Mowbray wants to play. We have to earn the right, you do that by frightening teams and letting them know they will not have it easy. We are currently doing the exact opposite. That is because our attacking and passing game is not fluid enough yet. Let's out fight the opposition, the artistry will come in time. 

[DE.]

4 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Yes, we are top heavy, hence two defensive midfielders would give us more balance and  aggression in the area where we are weak. I take your point that the team needs to work harder and ideally pressure the opposition the second we lose the ball. At the moment we need to scrap and get some momentum going as our passing game isn't slick or direct enough. We need solidity and tacklers in there. 

If the players don't work as hard because we have two defensive midfielders playing, it comes back to your point about attitude. 

I think we have enough attacking quality in the side to allow us two defensive, battling and aggresive midfielders. Mowbray spoke before the season started about soldiers and artists, I prefer the term gods and dogs. Every successful team had its share of dogs. At the moment we have too many gods of  the worst kind. God's in their own minds only. We need to scrap some wins and then grow into the type of play you mention and I believe Mowbray wants to play. We have to earn the right, you do that by frightening teams and letting them know they will not have it easy. We are currently doing the exact opposite. That is because our attacking and passing game is not fluid enough yet. Let's out fight the opposition, the artistry will come in time. 

To be honest the focus on tactics overall detracts from the main problem - attitude. We've all brought it up, and that's where the problems lie. If the players have the right attitude and are up for the fight we won't need to worry much about pre-planned positions on the field. That should come naturally with confidence and ability. If we've got a team full of shirkers, lightweights and prima donnas then we're going to lose even if we have the perfect tactical masterplan.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Our team is a little top heavy at the moment so I'm not sure two holding midfielders is the way to go. We're so frail defensively that I'd rather we keep the opposition on the back foot than allow them to come at us by using defensive-minded tactics. As we've seen in the opening two games, it doesn't take much to carve through our backline. Two holding midfielders is not required to keep other teams at bay - we need to be pushing the opposition back, then aggressively defend when we lose the ball and try to win it back as soon as possible. If we defend as a team we can work without two CDM's - I actually think the presence of two holding midfielders causes the rest of the midfield to work less as they think the back line is already adequately covered. The entire team needs to play its part.

Unfortunately the first two games have not seen many of our players displaying the type of attitude necessary to implement the above. I hope I'm wrong and it's just early season jitters, but being handily outworked in our opening two matches does not bode well.

Two holding midfielders have blighted us ever since we got relegated and with the recruitment this time I thought they'd finally be moving on from that, as you say no real need for it now.  Donny weren't interested in attacking at Ewood until that chance, well put away, was gifted to them then they cranked it up and exposed everything.

When you spend the money they have on a player like Dack you'd think the team would be built to play to him and possibly around Whittingham but it's back to Evans and giving the ball back to him  constantly. That lad wouldn't pass the ball forwards or go anywhere himself even if he had a satnav strapped on his head !

[Bigdoggsteel]

22 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Two holding midfielders have blighted us ever since we got relegated and with the recruitment this time I thought they'd finally be moving on from that, as you say no real need for it now.  Donny weren't interested in attacking at Ewood until that chance, well put away, was gifted to them then they cranked it up and exposed everything.

When you spend the money they have on a player like Dack you'd think the team would be built to play to him and possibly around Whittingham but it's back to Evans and giving the ball back to him  constantly. That lad wouldn't pass the ball forwards or go anywhere himself even if he had a satnav strapped on his head !

Yes, but previously we were playing 2 defensive midfielders in a 4-4-2. In a 4-2-3-1 formation we are currently playing Whittingham is in no man's land.

Plus,  this league is different. The opposition have less quality, but they appear to work even harder to make up for this. We can afford to sacrifice an "artist" in Whittingham for an extra soldier in Lenihan. Our front four would still be, arguably, the best on the league. 

[Mike E]

I wonder how we'd fare playing close to a 60's system? Something like:

                     Raya

Nyambe Mulgrew Lenihan Williams

                Smallwood

Bennett Dack Gladwin Chapman

                   Samuel

Play almost as a 'free' attacking 5, with the defence simply defending, with support from Smallwood (if necessary, Bennett and Gladwin can add some muscle when on the back foot)?

I don't want to treat it as a 'formation' like 4141, but more about the personnel on the pitch and what they're good at. May necessitate playing Smallwood in defence, with Mulgrew in midfield, for example?

[roversfan99]

We do need a left back and a centre back, and maybe another defensive midfielder, but Mowbray needs to get the best of of the spine of experienced, proven players he has.

Mulgrew can't do everything on his own, he needs someone like Lenihan who is more physical beside him, in a settled back 4 that knows what its doing, thats well drilled and well protected. And with Lenihan out, we need a third centre back who can come in and do a similar job, Mulgrew and Lenihan looked good together last season, but Elliott Ward is not good enough any more.

Danny Graham is the only striker we have with a proven goal scoring record, if we don't get him scoring regularly this season we won't go up, yet in the first 2 games hes look as lacking in support, unfit and at times disinterested as he did under Coyle.

Whittingham has been written off by many on here based on his 2 performances, but at Southend he had literally no forward movement in front of him, and against Doncaster he was played stupidly out of position. Any team in the league would have taken him, but he isn't the most mobile of players, but its his brain and his left foot that sets him apart but you need movement and legs to compliment him, so Mowbray is leaving him out to dry at the moment in hos current tactics.

And Dack and Bennett are the main 2 who need to score probably double figures each from midfield, yet I don't remember either having a shot or looking remotely threatening.

We do need a new left back, and we do need another top end centre back to cover for the injury prone Mulgrew and Lenihan, but Mowbray needs to stop hiding behind excuses.

[ChrisPriceBaldSpot]

So is there actually any news of transfers? Any centre halves been seen coming or going? 

 

[neophox]

A leader and steady defender Tommy Elphick cant get a game at Villa. Try and get him in!

[neophox]

Tommy Hoban is

another one..

[J*B]

16 minutes ago, neophox said:

Tommy Hoban is

another one..

I hope not. Just done his ACL and out for 9 months. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, J*B said:

I hope not. Just done his ACL and out for 9 months. 

Jesus, rough luck. 

[Earlydoors]

Just need the players to find their voices and for the leaders to emerge.

 

It'll all come good...

[tomphil]

Is Hoban crocked again ?   Bad luck that lad has had all his career, shame.

[TBTF]

9 hours ago, rhodie said:

I don`t think the quality of players we have at the moment for this league is the problem. I personally think the biggest problem we have is consistency, we keep on blowing hot then cold, it is the main reasons we are where we are.

When did we blow hot?

[Gone to seed]

York city. Red hot on fire or, put another way, smoking our own exhaust.

[TBTF]

Just now, WIR Second Coming said:

York city. Red hot on fire or, put another way, smoking our own exhaust.

Ah yes of course , the pub team