[Archived] Southend v Rovers

[JBiz]

Honestly.. I'm fairly amazed by a few comments. I wanted us to hit the ground running but it's going to take a bit of time to gel the new lads.

Too many of our fans are living in a dream world, we might be favourites for the league but that doesn't mean we are going to win every game 5-0. Dissapointed to lose but I didn't think we'd win, Southend, Phil Brown, this is not some Sunday league outfit.

Comparing whittingham to danny murphy... Its like the other thread, I'd need a lobotomy to forget just how bad he was, and it would take a full season of offering absolute zilch to get even close to that Danny the Rat. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

22 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Agree den, it's down to players and at the moment they seem to have believed all this nonsense about how they would walk this League.  Wasn't it Souness, when he was here, who said that during the first sixty minutes of a game you fight for the right to play your football over the last part of the game? Yesterday we seemed to have given up that fight after twenty minutes.

Souness was the man for the job at that time 

[Bigdoggsteel]

3 minutes ago, Biz said:

Honestly.. I'm fairly amazed by a few comments. I wanted us to hit the ground running but it's going to take a bit of time to gel the new lads.

Too many of our fans are living in a dream world, we might be favourites for the league but that doesn't mean we are going to win every game 5-0. Dissapointed to lose but I didn't think we'd win, Southend, Phil Brown, this is not some Sunday league outfit.

Comparing whittingham to danny murphy... Its like the other thread, I'd need a lobotomy to forget just how bad he was, and it would take a full season of offering absolute zilch to get even close to that Danny the Rat. 

It's the lack of fight that is concerning people and where this fight is going to come from within this bunch of players 

[Gav]

1 hour ago, den said:

Cant accept the league being "tough" as any kind of reason for struggling. If we're looking for "facts" - the standard of player in this league is far below the standard of player in a very poor championship. The quality of teams is also below the championship. The physicality of this league is no different than in any other league. Some folk seem to be trying to argue that this league is tougher than any other. It isn't. It's less so. 

Premiership to Championship was a massive wake up call for both fans and players alike, the two leagues are like chalk and cheese and we experienced that first hand, but you're right den, nothing much between Championship and league 1 in terms of 'toughness' its just a bit of quality thats lacking.

I'm sure you read some of the stuff being written on here about us walking this league and running away with things with as much contempt as I did, I laughed out loud at one stage, where do posters come up with this nonsense having not seen most of the new players even kick a ball?

We have a side full of league players that have hardly played together, we have a bit of quality in Mulgrew and in my opinion a decent but lazy striker in Danny Graham that needs to start earning his money or should be shipped out.

Its now down to TM to galvanized these players into a team, I like the manager, he deserves our support, but his record seems to indicate he'll struggle, I hope thats wrong.

Finally the elephant in the room, no not Danny Graham............we will never see any improvement or any significant progress until we get rid of the owners, the club is setup to fail and will continue to do so until they sod off back under the nearest rock.

 

 

[blueboy3333]

20 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Agree den, it's down to players and at the moment they seem to have believed all this nonsense about how they would walk this League.  Wasn't it Souness, when he was here, who said that during the first sixty minutes of a game you fight for the right to play your football over the last part of the game? Yesterday we seemed to have given up that fight after twenty minutes.

It's not totally down to the players. That system yesterday was set up to fail. It's going to be 4-4-2, in-yer-face, aggressive football in this league, especially away from home at the better teams. We were not set up to cope with that yesterday. What the hell was Samuel doing on the wing for a start? Has he played there pre=season? The soundbites coming out of Ewood also don't help. Talk of promotion, 'imposing' our football blah blah doesn't help. It's embarrassing and it's no wonder half our fans think we only have to turn up to win. You have to earn the right to play, you don't do that in interviews in pre-season.

And if the players have believed this nonsense then that again goes back to the manager. It is his job to make sure they ae mentally and physically prepared for what will be a very tough league, tough in different way to the Prem and the Championship.

You went yesterday Parson, can you honestly say Rovers were set-up to counter the strengths of the Southend side?

[JBiz]

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

It's the lack of fight that is concerning people and where this fight is going to come from within this bunch of players 

Lack of fight? We aren't talking about 5/6 games here- we are talking about 1! To be specifically, overly concerned at this point is a bit childish and reactionary.

If we are having the same problems after 5 games, I'll join you in the worrisome.

 

[Pedro]

One game in and the level of panic here is insane but also, predictable.  If this becomes our standard, then I totally get it but there have been wholesale changes in the summer so common sense should say that surely there must be time to let the players settle, let the league take shape and then if we aren't in the top two or three, then question the manager. I personally think that to suggest this after one game and think that Mowbray may not even see the month out is madness.  It isn't going to be our only loss this season and rightly so, there is a massive weight of expectation throughout our fan base (even a large portion of the pessimists secretly expect us to be really competitive - you can see with their reaction to the last two results ?) but we blatantly need to quickly develop or add more leadership, quality and fight to the squad or we'll get nothing but disappointment.  

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 minute ago, Biz said:

Lack of fight? We aren't talking about 5/6 games here- we are talking about 1! To be specifically, overly concerned at this point is a bit childish and reactionary.

If we are having the same problems after 5 games, I'll join you in the worrisome.

 

So where is the fight going to come from? I don't see any of our current bunch who will crunch into the opposition and fight for our right to play. Do you? 

I'm not panicking and I would give Mowbray time, but this needs to be addressed imo

[Batman.]

Just now, Pedro said:

One game in and the level of panic here is insane but also, predictable.  If this becomes our standard, then I totally get it but there have been wholesale changes in the summer so common sense should say that surely there must be time to let the players settle, let the league take shape and then if we aren't in the top two or three, then question the manager. I personally think that to suggest this after one game and think that Mowbray may not even see the month out is madness.  It isn't going to be our only loss this season and rightly so, there is a massive weight of expectation throughout our fan base (even a large portion of the pessimists secretly expect us to be really competitive - you can see with their reaction to the last two results ?) but we blatantly need to quickly develop or add more leadership, quality and fight to the squad or we'll get nothing but disappointment.  

The last two results were defeats to two @#/? teams whom we would have beaten with our third team 7 years ago.

We're @#/? .

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Biz said:

Honestly.. I'm fairly amazed by a few comments. I wanted us to hit the ground running but it's going to take a bit of time to gel the new lads.

Too many of our fans are living in a dream world, we might be favourites for the league but that doesn't mean we are going to win every game 5-0. Dissapointed to lose but I didn't think we'd win, Southend, Phil Brown, this is not some Sunday league outfit.

Comparing whittingham to danny murphy... Its like the other thread, I'd need a lobotomy to forget just how bad he was, and it would take a full season of offering absolute zilch to get even close to that Danny the Rat. 

It's not the losing, it's the manner of the losing that is concerning people. Nearly every team in this Division will adopt the same tactics against us that Southend used. You need players that have the mental and physical attributes to deal with it, I'm not sure we have them.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Gav said:

nothing much between Championship and league 1 in terms of 'toughness' its just a bit of quality thats lacking

Disagree there. League 1 is a totally different world. Saw the Bradford v Fleetwood games last season in the play-offs and Fleetwood just kicked them off the park. That wouldn't be tolerated in the Championship. There are a lot of very expensive players and high-profile managers in the Championship these days, and they are offered a different level of protection than in League 1.  

[Pedro]

Just now, Batman. said:

The last two results were defeats to two @#/? teams whom we would have beaten with our third team 7 years ago.

We're @#/? .

Holy cow Batman! It isn't 2010 anymore though and Chris Samba, Ryan Nelsen, Phil Jones, Yakubu, N'Zonzi, Salgado etc. aren't here to help. Unfortunately,  you are going to have to come to terms with that sometime and we have to get out of this mess with the dregs we have.

[JBiz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It's not the losing, it's the manner of the losing that is concerning people. Nearly every team in this Division will adopt the same tactics against us that Southend used. You need players that have the mental and physical attributes to deal with it, I'm not sure we have them.

I'd expect us to get better as we go along. A few mentioned the centre backs are an issue and need replacing... haven't we spent the summer threatening to lose our minds if they don't keep Charlie and Darragh?!?

 

[GreenRover]

I watched the extended highlights on the ifollow player and one thing that stuck was the Southend fans. They roared their team on from start to finish. That has to put a pep in your step. The Southend players worked so hard throughout. There gave up on nothing. Fortune up front ran all day. Credit to them. I have to say that we need a striker with energy. During that 10 mins of extended highlights, Danny Graham had one touch. He exemplifies that laid back attitude that Blackburn have had for so long. He drives me mad to watch. Graham would play better against bigger teams hence United in FA cup last season but will stroll around against lesser teams. Great man to get a few goals in pre season but where was he yesterday. Lacks energy and desire. Time to think about moving him on but as we have seen no one is interested as they know he is lazy. He frustrates me a lot. Give me Sam Gallagher any day. Graham really needs to up his game along with a few more before it is too late and we are stuck in mid table for the season. Disappointing result but need to move on and get a few wins and for the love of God have a home game so the crowd can get behind them. Feels like an eternity since they played in Ewood. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

7 minutes ago, Batman. said:

The last two results were defeats to two @#/? teams whom we would have beaten with our third team 7 years ago.

We're @#/? .

Don't count pre season friendlies... Weakens the facts. You could go a few games back and say we won 8-0. Can't pick and choose pre friendlies to suit your argument. The issue is we lost our first game of the season because we didn't look up to the battle and therefore couldn't win the right to play our game and utilise our, on paper anyway, more skillful and technical players 

[Gav]

8 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Disagree there. League 1 is a totally different world. Saw the Bradford v Fleetwood games last season in the play-offs and Fleetwood just kicked them off the park. That wouldn't be tolerated in the Championship. There are a lot of very expensive players and high-profile managers in the Championship these days, and they are offered a different level of protection than in League 1.  

Be interesting to see how this pans out blueboy, I don't see much difference tbh but I've not seen lots of league 1 football granted.

But like the players and managers on show in league 1, the standard of officiating will also be of lesser quality so maybe that has an impact.

[tomphil]

5 minutes ago, Biz said:

I'd expect us to get better as we go along. A few mentioned the centre backs are an issue and need replacing... haven't we spent the summer threatening to lose our minds if they don't keep Charlie and Darragh?!?

 

It needn't mean losing them we are looking to strengthen and improve so getting in a proper centre half to then pair with one of them is the way to go if TM could prise the funds out of the snakes.  Either could be moved forwards as both are converted mids and it really wouldn't do either any harm if they are on the bench unless they are doing their stuff, that applies to any player.

All down to the budget of course but i'm sure there is room to offski someone else to trade in a centre half.

[Sparks Rover]

I've been in football for a long time and, in reality with the league being 46 games, the best managers won't want their teams peeking until 6/7/8 or even upto 10 games into the season. 

Southend are one of the best teams in the league, sunny day, full house, big club coming to town...what motivation for the players. Plus they've lost their previous 2 seasons first few games.....it was 2-1, not a drubbing. Browny is a good manager, Mowbray not sure of his best team as yet......

 

Not worried. ....................Yet 

[GreenRover]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

I've been in football for a long time and, in reality with the league being 46 games, the best managers won't want their teams peeking until 6/7/8 or even upto 10 games into the season. 

Southend are one of the best teams in the league, sunny day, full house, big club coming to town...what motivation for the players. Plus they've lost their previous 2 seasons first few games.....it was 2-1, not a drubbing. Browny is a good manager, Mowbray not sure of his best team as yet......

 

Not worried. ....................Yet 

Ya bit of sense there. Hopefully will be a massive wake up call though. Some players need to start earning their money. 

[roverandout]

51 minutes ago, Biz said:

Lack of fight? We aren't talking about 5/6 games here- we are talking about 1! To be specifically, overly concerned at this point is a bit childish and reactionary.

If we are having the same problems after 5 games, I'll join you in the worrisome.

 

And you seem to have missed the point that this has been going on for ages. Its not just one, its previous seasons too. Do we pretend the last 7 years havent happened?

[blueboy3333]

12 minutes ago, Sparks Rover said:

I've been in football for a long time and, in reality with the league being 46 games, the best managers won't want their teams peeking until 6/7/8 or even upto 10 games into the season. 

I'd be very surprised if an manager was happy with a poor start to the season. We didn't win until  7 or 8 games into last season and we went down.

Mourinho used to win the league with Chelsea by starting like a house on fire and never letting up. Fergie admitted as much on more than one occasion.

No point 'peeking' after 10 games if you've lost the first nine.

In what capacity are you 'in' football?

[Bigdoggsteel]

35 minutes ago, tomphil said:

It needn't mean losing them we are looking to strengthen and improve so getting in a proper centre half to then pair with one of them is the way to go if TM could prise the funds out of the snakes.  Either could be moved forwards as both are converted mids and it really wouldn't do either any harm if they are on the bench unless they are doing their stuff, that applies to any player.

All down to the budget of course but i'm sure there is room to offski someone else to trade in a centre half.

I was thinking this actually. Lenihan and Mulgrew are converted midfielders. Would the two of them be better actually in midfield? We are lacking an imposing centre half, no doubt. Think Kevin Moran, Andy Todd, Samba. Will Lenihan ever play midfield again? Him and Smallwood would be two battlers in there. As for Mulgrew, he converted to centre half very late and  while cultured, there are plenty of fortunes in the league I would imagine. We need a rough scrapper, simple as that 

[JBiz]

4 minutes ago, roverandout said:

And you seem to have missed the point that this has been going on for ages. Its not just one, its previous seasons too. Do we pretend the last 7 years havent happened?

Oh @#/?, I forgot you aren't allowed to discuss anything at rovers in isolation of the ownership. Sorry, won't happen again.

 

[blueboy3333]

34 minutes ago, tomphil said:

It needn't mean losing them we are looking to strengthen and improve so getting in a proper centre half to then pair with one of them is the way to go if TM could prise the funds out of the snakes.  Either could be moved forwards as both are converted mids and it really wouldn't do either any harm if they are on the bench unless they are doing their stuff, that applies to any player.

All down to the budget of course but i'm sure there is room to offski someone else to trade in a centre half.

If we're going to offski anyone then I'd offski Evans and buy a centre-half. Mulgrew or Lenihan can then move into midfield. I'd actually be tempted to sign 2 combative experienced centre-halves and send Wharton out on loan.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

I was thinking this actually. Lenihan and Mulgrew are converted midfielders. Would the two of them be better actually in midfield? We are lacking an imposing centre half, no doubt. Think Kevin Moran, Andy Todd, Samba. Will Lenihan ever play midfield again? Him and Smallwood would be two battlers in there. As for Mulgrew, he converted to centre half very late and  while cultured, there are plenty of fortunes in the league I would imagine. We need a rough scrapper, simple as that 

We were a similar soft touch the last time we dropped down to this level. We also played like a team that was feeling sorry for itself. Then we signed an animal for the No 5 shirt and things changed. We stopped getting bullied all of a sudden.