[Archived] Southend v Rovers

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Athlete said:

They'll go when they find another entity to use as a accounting tool in the corporation

That could be a long time seeing as they want a finger in every pie and are setting up stuff over here with other partners. We'll end up being the only non league club with an annual wage bill of 20 million, losing 15 mill per annum yet have a tiny squad of players on a grand pwk

[Butty]

27 minutes ago, Blue blood said:

Reading 4-4-2's season preview on the way back up from the wedding it was interesting to note that Southend are big scalp takers in the division. They convincingly beat a number of the teams at the top of the division last year and have a bit of a rep for it.

It doesn't excuse the performance but perhaps it's not as much of a surprise or disaster as first appears. Still gutted by the result but even Sheff Utd got done by them last season so perhaps not as terrible a result as my initial reaction (Southend for goodness sake).

Still plenty of games to go but obviously this has to be an exception rather than a regular occurrence.

I said on here it would be a very tough game going too Southend and that we couldn't have started with a much tougher away game. Still obviously thought we were going too go there and come back with something but I'm not overly surprised we got beat. As others have said the manner of performance should be the main worry but if there was ever a wake up call that we aren't going too walk this league yesterday was it. Move on from it and bounce back next weekend against Donny. A win away at Coventry on Tuesday would also do the job for us too give us a bit of momentum going into the weekend. Saying that, last season we comfortably beat Mansfield away in the cup then the Saturday that followed was the worst performance I've ever seen from a rovers side away at Wigan last season. We go again boys. 

[Shrimper]

Evening Rovers. 

Let me start by saying I think it's a travesty what's happened to your club. I've seen Rovers play 3 times at Ewood in the past (beating Arsenal 2-0, beating Newcastle 5-2 & beating Charlton 1-0, all circa 2002/3) & always had a soft spot for the club. I hope things can be restored one day, and you return to where you belong. 

Although I fully appreciate it was a bad day for you lot yesterday, you shouldn't be too disheartened. For what it's worth, I think you'll finish up in the play-off positions at least. The spell you's had after half time was very difficult to cope with, and a lot of teams in this league would have (and will) crumble under that pressure, and you's would have taken the 3 points. Personally I thought Elliott was your main danger man, and we were delighted to see him withdrawn. Bradley Dack is a @#/?, but on his day he'll run rings around this league. Also thought your boy Chapman looked lively, but the nerves got the better of him on a couple of occasions. If he can settle fast, he'll be a decent player at this level. Although I must admit, you're biggest downfall might well be Mowbray. He ain't cut out for this level. 

Nice to see some praise for our little old tin-pot club. We've invested well, and if we can keep our key players fit, we'll be there-or-there-abouts with you, come May. We had 4-5 of our key players missing from the starting XI yesterday aswell, so there's (hopefully) more to come from us. 

The main thing about this league is, anybody can beat anybody on their day. Form guides don't mean jack @#/? really. It's a tough league, but it's also a league where if you can string together 4/5/6 wins, you find yourself rocketing up the table. Teams are regularly swapping places, leapfrogging each other, and closing ground on one another. Oh, if you thought we were physical, then wait til you come up against the likes of Bury or Scunthorpe. 

And I can also confirm that the refs in this division aren't that good, and moaning about them after every game, will become second nature, regardless if you win or lose. Keep a special eye out for one certain individual called Trevor Kettle. He's well known to the more regular fans of the lower divisions, simply because, he only needs to ref you once, and you won't forget him. 

Good luck for the season.

[RevidgeBlue]

3 hours ago, Phil T said:

You've just completely proved my point by your own admission. Quality is king. It always has been and always will be. All of those players you mentioned were quality. They also happened to have fight and heart.

Aaron Mokoena. Not much quality, could barely kick the ball straight, but heart and fight. Appreciated, but never good enough for a top 6 team.

You said to give you 11 players with fitness and heart. That's no good if they're crap at football. Jason Lowe proves this. Always felt like one of the fittest players on the field. Did he have heart? I think he had more than most. Unfortunately, he was crap, so we all hated him. Your criteria of fitness and heart is nonsense.

It's going off topic a bit but I disagree completely about Lowe. Did he really have heart?  My main objection to him was not any perceived lack of technical quality but the fact that despite being naturally athletic he rarely if ever pressed the ball, got a toe or a tackle in, or harried the opposition.

I'd describe him as the opposite of a player with heart. He came across to me as a player who tried to coast through the game with the minimum of effort every week.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Shrimper said:

Evening Rovers. 

Let me start by saying I think it's a travesty what's happened to your club. I've seen Rovers play 3 times at Ewood in the past (beating Arsenal 2-0, beating Newcastle 5-2 & beating Charlton 1-0, all circa 2002/3) & always had a soft spot for the club. I hope things can be restored one day, and you return to where you belong. 

Although I fully appreciate it was a bad day for you lot yesterday, you shouldn't be too disheartened. For what it's worth, I think you'll finish up in the play-off positions at least. The spell you's had after half time was very difficult to cope with, and a lot of teams in this league would have (and will) crumble under that pressure, and you's would have taken the 3 points. Personally I thought Elliott was your main danger man, and we were delighted to see him withdrawn. Bradley Dack is a @#/?, but on his day he'll run rings around this league. Also thought your boy Chapman looked lively, but the nerves got the better of him on a couple of occasions. If he can settle fast, he'll be a decent player at this level. Although I must admit, you're biggest downfall might well be Mowbray. He ain't cut out for this level. 

Nice to see some praise for our little old tin-pot club. We've invested well, and if we can keep our key players fit, we'll be there-or-there-abouts with you, come May. We had 4-5 of our key players missing from the starting XI yesterday aswell, so there's (hopefully) more to come from us. 

The main thing about this league is, anybody can beat anybody on their day. Form guides don't mean jack @#/? really. It's a tough league, but it's also a league where if you can string together 4/5/6 wins, you find yourself rocketing up the table. Teams are regularly swapping places, leapfrogging each other, and closing ground on one another. Oh, if you thought we were physical, then wait til you come up against the likes of Bury or Scunthorpe. 

And I can also confirm that the refs in this division aren't that good, and moaning about them after every game, will become second nature, regardless if you win or lose. Keep a special eye out for one certain individual called Trevor Kettle. He's well known to the more regular fans of the lower divisions, simply because, he only needs to ref you once, and you won't forget him. 

Good luck for the season.

Good post. Thanks for the reasoned contribution to the Board.

What did you mean about Mowbray? Did you mean that in your view he's not even good enough for this level or that he's only cut out for managing at Championship level or above?

Cheers.

[USABlue]

20 hours ago, Mercer said:

 

I thought in Mowbray we had a decent manager who knows the game.  I also thought he'd made some decent signings for this level

Mercer, you are not the only one who was thinking that.  It has to be a big big concern why these players looked like they were neither fit nor mentally up for it.  Is Mowbary too complicated for this level of football, nagging in the back of all our minds is Coventry City.  Several of these players have already plied their trade at this level so it can't have been a.culture shock.  The new boy.Samuels has looked all along like Scott.Dann when he came, does not want to be here.

[USABlue]

18 hours ago, Biz said:

Honestly.. I'm fairly amazed by a few comments. I wanted us to hit the ground running but it's going to take a bit of time to gel the new lads.

Too many of our fans are living in a dream world, we might be favourites for the league but that doesn't mean we are going to win every game 5-0. Dissapointed to lose but I didn't think we'd win, Southend, Phil Brown, this is not some Sunday league outfit.

Comparing whittingham to danny murphy... Its like the other thread, I'd need a lobotomy to forget just how bad he was, and it would take a full season of offering absolute zilch to get even close to that Danny the Rat. 

Needing time to gel is no excuse for not putting the graft in.

[Athlete]

9 hours ago, Phil T said:

But it's got to hurt the owners. Does it?

I suspect it doesn't, despite that interesting info you have. Fan attendance is surely chicken feed for Venkys, nothing more.

If fans don't want to turn up in spite of Venkys, fair enough. Everyone has their reasons. I just don't think it affects Venkys in the way that people like to believe it does.

Unfortunately in the grand scheme of things they don't care if 30000 turn up or 3000.. As the club doesn't look like it's being used for its primary business which obviously is Football and football obviously isn't in venkys core product  line of their corporation.  Then who in the venkys hierarchy actually gives a flying  how the side does at Southend or Rochdale etc.. Bazzas pals possibly to cream some more off with players in and out 

[martonrover]

15 hours ago, gumboots said:

What if we lose though 

Then it would be very worrying!

[Mercer]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

It's going off topic a bit but I disagree completely about Lowe. Did he really have heart?  My main objection to him was not any perceived lack of technical quality but the fact that despite being naturally athletic he rarely if ever pressed the ball, got a toe or a tackle in, or harried the opposition.

I'd describe him as the opposite of a player with heart. He came across to me as a player who tried to coast through the game with the minimum of effort every week.

I think we are now seeing Lowe's true worth.  .

The season has started and he is still without a club.  I think this is down to a grossly over estimated view of his own ability and also personal greed.

This is a guy who must have cost Rovers £millions in terms of his wage and employment costs.  If he had an ounce of intelligence, he is almost certainly financially secure for life after his last Rovers' contract in particular.  My advice to Lowe, you got lucky lad, be thankful and get another club and accept the wages they are prepared to pay.  If it's 'only' £5,000 a week, it's more than 98% of every single football fan in the country earns - just GET REAL. 

[blueboy3333]

10 hours ago, J*B said:

Disagree entirely - I spoke to a current full time employee of the club and in their own words: "The club is only making 16k profit from a home game and Venky's are having the fund the gap". If you are doing NAPM to try and hit them in the pockets, it's working and they're not enjoying it. 

We're £120m in debt to them. They'll just add it on. Then sell someone else. Then sell Brockhall.

100% Rovers O% Venky's wasn't it?

[blueboy3333]

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/15456473._We_are_in_for_a_fight____Charlie_Mulgrew_gives_an_honest_assessment_as_Rovers_beaten_at_Southend_United/?ref=mac

“If we didn’t realise it, we do now, we’re in for a fight and we need to win the battle first this year...It was physical, it was battle,” Mulgrew said of life in League 1.

No excuses from now on from the players or the manager. They aren't in the Championship anymore. They're going to have to put a few tackles in in this league.

Useless preening ponces.

 

[Shrimper]

7 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Good post. Thanks for the reasoned contribution to the Board.

What did you mean about Mowbray? Did you mean that in your view he's not even good enough for this level or that he's only cut out for managing at Championship level or above?

Cheers.

Personally, I don't think he's good enough for this level, although It's hard to argue that he's good at any level really. Put it this way, I think the only time Mowbray doesnt struggle as a manager, is if he's in charge of a team like Barcelona, where the players can save him week-in, week-out

You see, this league isn't about fancy formations or new-age tactics. You need hard work, determination & a little bit of class. When Phil Brown took over at our place, he did the same as Mowbray, and tried to be too clever IMO. Half the time we'd lose games, due to Brown trying to outsmart the opposition. But as soon as he realised that it didn't have to be that complicated, and stripped it back to a 4-4-2, with a philosophy of pass & move, we started picking up momentum. See, there's plenty of teams in this league like Shrewsbury, Oldham or Walsall  who will visit your place with no intention of playing football. They'll put 11 men behind the ball, defend for their lives, whilst trying to nick a goal from a set-piece, or a counter attack. It's those type of games where Mowbray will especially struggle, much as we did when Brown first took over, because they believe they can out-wit the opposition, with some fancy tactic. 

But like I said, you only really need a few key ingredients to be successful in this league. Hard-work, determination & a little bit of class. You think teams like Burton got to the Championship, by clever tactics? 

Not being funny, but having 1 striker up top, rarely works in this league, unless they have pace to burn. Mowbray played the same style at Coventry, and that didn't work even though he had Adam Armstrong up front. Danny Graham might be a decent player, and I know a lot is expected of him at this level, but he didn't really look like he fancied a battle with Ferdidnand on Saturday. He needs to give his head a wobble, if he thinks centre-halves are going to let him have his way in this league. There are some real old fashioned bruisers in league one, who will kick him all over the pitch, week-in, week-out. 

 

 

 

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, USABlue said:

Needing time to gel is no excuse for not putting the graft in.

From what I've gleaned, we looked a bit disorganised, struggled with conditions and key players underperformed. Heads dropped at 2-0, got some reaction at half time but not enough.

Im afraid having the opinion that we might take a bit to get going with so many additions isn't making excuses for a lack of effort, and since you highlight that as the specific reason for our defeat - could you actually spell out why you thought we failed to put "the graft in"? 

 

[G Somerset Rover]

Mate sent me this (honest). Looks a bit like young Bradley...

http://dailym.ai/2vwlfRX

[arbitro]

5 minutes ago, Shrimper said:

Personally, I don't think he's good enough for this level, although It's hard to argue that he's good at any level really. Put it this way, I think the only time Mowbray doesnt struggle as a manager, is if he's in charge of a team like Barcelona, where the players can save him week-in, week-out

You see, this league isn't about fancy formations or new-age tactics. You need hard work, determination & a little bit of class. When Phil Brown took over at our place, he did the same as Mowbray, and tried to be too clever IMO. Half the time we'd lose games, due to Brown trying to outsmart the opposition. But as soon as he realised that it didn't have to be that complicated, and stripped it back to a 4-4-2, with a philosophy of pass & move, we started picking up momentum. See, there's plenty of teams in this league like Shrewsbury, Oldham or Walsall  who will visit your place with no intention of playing football. They'll put 11 men behind the ball, defend for their lives, whilst trying to nick a goal from a set-piece, or a counter attack. It's those type of games where Mowbray will especially struggle, much as we did when Brown first took over, because they believe they can out-wit the opposition, with some fancy tactic. 

But like I said, you only really need a few key ingredients to be successful in this league. Hard-work, determination & a little bit of class. You think teams like Burton got to the Championship, by clever tactics? 

Not being funny, but having 1 striker up top, rarely works in this league, unless they have pace to burn. Mowbray played the same style at Coventry, and that didn't work even though he had Adam Armstrong up front. Danny Graham might be a decent player, and I know a lot is expected of him at this level, but he didn't really look like he fancied a battle with Ferdidnand on Saturday. He needs to give his head a wobble, if he thinks centre-halves are going to let him have his way in this league. There are some real old fashioned bruisers in league one, who will kick him all over the pitch, week-in, week-out. 

 

 

 

Good points which have been echoed by lots of Rovers fans who saw the game. Mowbray needs to understand the points you have made particularly to his fancy but ineffective formations. I don't particularly like or rate Brown but he certainly out smarted our man on Saturday.

[arbitro]

Just now, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Mate sent me this (honest). Looks a bit too much like young Bradley...

http://dailym.ai/2vwlfRX

But he has a tight hamstring....................

[G Somerset Rover]

Just now, arbitro said:

But he has a tight hamstring....................

IF it's him then it looks like we've quickly filled the void left by Stokes.

[Shrimper]

11 hours ago, klc_2012 said:

Not so much the result as the manner of it. Every team can lose a game but it was a pretty shocking performance - first game of season after relegation i expected a bit of blood and thunder, hard pressing and a glimpse of some slick interplay. Not non league lump it and pub defending whilst looking less interested and less fit than the opponents.

I must admit, the one thing that shocked me about Rovers on Saturday, was their fitness. Apart from maybe Elliott, all of your lot seemed half a yard behind ours. We were quicker to tackles, quicker to close down, and quicker to loose balls.  

Being honest, we thought that Rovers would turn up & go for the jugular from kick-off, but after 10-15 minutes, it was clear that we could not only match you, but we could better you, and a lot of that was down to work-ethic & determination. It was almost as if Rovers were shocked that this little tin pot team, had the audacity to outwork them. I hope for your sakes, that the players haven't taken the talk of favourites, too literally. You have to earn the right in this league. It's that exact reason why Sheff Utd spent so many years here. They were tipped as favourites  on a yearly basis, and they were genuinely shocked when teams wouldn't roll over for them. They got it right eventually, as I'm sure Rovers will.  

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

Mate sent me this (honest). Looks a bit like young Bradley...

http://dailym.ai/2vwlfRX

Looks a bit like? Spitting image more like! 

[K-Hod]

Sounds a bit like Mowbray has a touch of the Arsene Wenger about him in that he expects if you turn up and play your game, you're entitled to win. Good job he's had all summer to make sure we get it right, isn't it? In any event, hopefully this is just a blip and we turn it around quickly.

There simply cannot be any excuse for being second best in terms of effort, attitude, application and being second to loose balls.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Those with long memories will recall that each time we got out of this league in the past we did it with hard work and the ability to grind out results. We'd football it when we got the chance but we could battle if needs be.

How many games did Howard Kendall's team win 1-0 ?

[Shrimper]

15 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Good points which have been echoed by lots of Rovers fans who saw the game. Mowbray needs to understand the points you have made particularly to his fancy but ineffective formations. I don't particularly like or rate Brown but he certainly out smarted our man on Saturday.

A lot of our fans didn't like, or want Brown at our club at first. And those concerns continued to for a long time, especially when we would throw points away, which was attributed to Brown's "tactics". 

But he eventually learned, and we've finished off better, every year since he's been in charge. 

I'd like to say Mowbray would/could follow the same path, but I wouldn't hold my breath on it. Time will tell I guess, but I wouldn't be surprised if he was gone before the season is out

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Shrimper said:

but I wouldn't be surprised if he was gone before the season is out

With Venky's in charge you can bet on it.

I share the same views as you on Mowbray. I think he's a football obsessive and far better human being that the likes of Coyle and Kean, but I also think he's naïve if he thinks the opposition are just going to let the likes of Whittingham stroke the ball round at their leisure, which seems to be his game-plan. I think he talks a great game and I think he believes every word, but I fear the reality will bear no resemblance.

Thanks for your post. & good luck for the season.

 

[Mercer]

45 minutes ago, Biz said:

From what I've gleaned, we looked a bit disorganised, struggled with conditions and key players underperformed. Heads dropped at 2-0, got some reaction at half time but not enough.

Im afraid having the opinion that we might take a bit to get going with so many additions isn't making excuses for a lack of effort, and since you highlight that as the specific reason for our defeat - could you actually spell out why you thought we failed to put "the graft in"? 

 

 

 

Those of us about in 1975 long remember the Plymouth promotion epic at Ewood in the old 3rd Division (the equivalent league we now play in).

Plymouth were our nearest rivals and I remember their fans arriving in tens of coaches well before 10.00 on the Saturday morning.

The atmosphere was electric as the game started. 

It couldn't have been worse.  We were 2-0 down after about 15 minutes and then Jim Furnell (later to run Rovers' youth set-up) saved a penalty from 'The Don' (Don Martin).

This lot today would have crumbled.

Not Gordon Lee's lads.  We went on to win 5-2 with a brace from Hickman (£10,000 signing from Grimsby) on debut.

That is the spirit, commitment and character we need in the club.  Sadly, it seems we are miles away.