[Archived] Southend v Rovers

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Mercer said:

 

 

Those of us about in 1975 long remember the Plymouth promotion epic at Ewood in the old 3rd Division (the equivalent league we now play in).

Plymouth were our nearest rivals and I remember their fans arriving in tens of coaches well before 10.00 on the Saturday morning.

The atmosphere was electric as the game started. 

It couldn't have been worse.  We were 2-0 down after about 15 minutes and then Jim Furnell (later to run Rovers' youth set-up) saved a penalty from 'The Don' (Don Martin).

This lot today would have crumbled.

Not Gordon Lee's lads.  We went on to win 5-2 with a brace from Hickman (£10,000 signing from Grimsby) on debut.

That is the spirit, commitment and character we need in the club.  Sadly, it seems we are miles away.

Didn't somebody ( Metcalfe ? ) score a bizarre own goal for them in that game. Bob Saxton who managed Rovers later on played for Plymouth that day as did Paul Mariner who went on to bigger and better things with England. They'd another handy lad playing up front called Billy Rafferty.  I'd heard the big clubs were watching Mariner but I thought Rafferty was a better bet for the big time. 

Going back to the game - we just ran them into the ground in the second half. They couldn't live with our work rate and energy. 

Then you look at last Saturday's game !

 

[JBiz]

Just now, Mercer said:

 

 

Those of us about in 1975 long remember the Plymouth promotion epic at Ewood.

Plymouth were our nearest rivals and I remember their fans arriving in tens of coaches well before 10.00 on the Saturday morning.

The atmosphere was electric as the game started. 

It couldn't have been worse.  We were 2-0 down after about 15 minutes and then Jim Furnell (later to run Rovers' youth set-up) saved a penalty from 'The Don' (Don Martin).

This lot today would have crumbled.

Not Gordon Lee's lads.  We went on to win 5-2 with a brace from Hickman (£10,000 signing from Grimsby) on debut.

That is the spirit, commitment and character we need in the club.  Sadly, it seems we are miles away.

It's not going to happen over night, after 1 game in a new season or looking at the big picture long term, after 1 pre season of "investment" and rebuilding work.

This current ownership just isn't conducive to the example you brought up (a well meaning but skint Rovers of the past). The current setup doesn't force every ounce of value, it allows a culture of mistakes, decline, sacking managers and losing the best players without the ability to replace.

I have as many doubts in Mowbrays ability to organise us consistently as anyone, but I have no doubts in his rationale for the job and his motivation as a "football man". It is quite pitiful that it's got to that stage, but we've had questionable characters constantly under this lot. 

Big picture for me though is, it's extremely early days in 2017/18 - and whether it's hope or stupidity, I do expect the team to start playing more like a "team" with time. Dack, Gladwin, Samuel and Chapman are all potentially great additions at this level.

Someone said defeat could be a blessing in disguise, I hope that's the case because I'll never feel confident when confronted with the prospect of throwing the "Venky Dice" once more. Snake eyes central. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, Shrimper said:

Personally, I don't think he's good enough for this level, although It's hard to argue that he's good at any level really. Put it this way, I think the only time Mowbray doesnt struggle as a manager, is if he's in charge of a team like Barcelona, where the players can save him week-in, week-out

You see, this league isn't about fancy formations or new-age tactics. You need hard work, determination & a little bit of class. When Phil Brown took over at our place, he did the same as Mowbray, and tried to be too clever IMO. Half the time we'd lose games, due to Brown trying to outsmart the opposition. But as soon as he realised that it didn't have to be that complicated, and stripped it back to a 4-4-2, with a philosophy of pass & move, we started picking up momentum. See, there's plenty of teams in this league like Shrewsbury, Oldham or Walsall  who will visit your place with no intention of playing football. They'll put 11 men behind the ball, defend for their lives, whilst trying to nick a goal from a set-piece, or a counter attack. It's those type of games where Mowbray will especially struggle, much as we did when Brown first took over, because they believe they can out-wit the opposition, with some fancy tactic. 

But like I said, you only really need a few key ingredients to be successful in this league. Hard-work, determination & a little bit of class. You think teams like Burton got to the Championship, by clever tactics? 

Not being funny, but having 1 striker up top, rarely works in this league, unless they have pace to burn. Mowbray played the same style at Coventry, and that didn't work even though he had Adam Armstrong up front. Danny Graham might be a decent player, and I know a lot is expected of him at this level, but he didn't really look like he fancied a battle with Ferdidnand on Saturday. He needs to give his head a wobble, if he thinks centre-halves are going to let him have his way in this league. There are some real old fashioned bruisers in league one, who will kick him all over the pitch, week-in, week-out. 

 

 

 

Good post. My thoughts exactly about 4-4-2. We have the players to beat teams if we play them at their own game. No fancy stuff!

[tomphil]

51 minutes ago, Gavlar Somerset Rover! said:

IF it's him then it looks like we've quickly filled the void left by Stokes.

Probably still lives down that way so just up to his regular Saturday night antics no doubt, might explain why his mind didn't appear to be on the game Saturday though, 

[tomphil]

9 hours ago, Shrimper said:

Evening Rovers. 

Let me start by saying I think it's a travesty what's happened to your club. I've seen Rovers play 3 times at Ewood in the past (beating Arsenal 2-0, beating Newcastle 5-2 & beating Charlton 1-0, all circa 2002/3) & always had a soft spot for the club. I hope things can be restored one day, and you return to where you belong. 

Although I fully appreciate it was a bad day for you lot yesterday, you shouldn't be too disheartened. For what it's worth, I think you'll finish up in the play-off positions at least. The spell you's had after half time was very difficult to cope with, and a lot of teams in this league would have (and will) crumble under that pressure, and you's would have taken the 3 points. Personally I thought Elliott was your main danger man, and we were delighted to see him withdrawn. Bradley Dack is a @#/?, but on his day he'll run rings around this league. Also thought your boy Chapman looked lively, but the nerves got the better of him on a couple of occasions. If he can settle fast, he'll be a decent player at this level. Although I must admit, you're biggest downfall might well be Mowbray. He ain't cut out for this level. 

Nice to see some praise for our little old tin-pot club. We've invested well, and if we can keep our key players fit, we'll be there-or-there-abouts with you, come May. We had 4-5 of our key players missing from the starting XI yesterday aswell, so there's (hopefully) more to come from us. 

The main thing about this league is, anybody can beat anybody on their day. Form guides don't mean jack @#/? really. It's a tough league, but it's also a league where if you can string together 4/5/6 wins, you find yourself rocketing up the table. Teams are regularly swapping places, leapfrogging each other, and closing ground on one another. Oh, if you thought we were physical, then wait til you come up against the likes of Bury or Scunthorpe. 

And I can also confirm that the refs in this division aren't that good, and moaning about them after every game, will become second nature, regardless if you win or lose. Keep a special eye out for one certain individual called Trevor Kettle. He's well known to the more regular fans of the lower divisions, simply because, he only needs to ref you once, and you won't forget him. 

Good luck for the season.

I don't think any Rovers fan on here saw Southend as anything other than a solid little club until we had a read of your forums which then sparked a bit of tinpot outrage

[Bigdoggsteel]

In some positive news, the quotes from Mulgrew in the LT would suggest that he is staying for the fight

[Mercer]

4 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Didn't somebody ( Metcalfe ? ) score a bizarre own goal for them in that game. Bob Saxton who managed Rovers later on played for Plymouth that day as did Paul Mariner who went on to bigger and better things with England. They'd another handy lad playing up front called Billy Rafferty.  I'd heard the big clubs were watching Mariner but I thought Rafferty was a better bet for the big time. 

Going back to the game - we just ran them into the ground in the second half. They couldn't live with our work rate and energy. 

Then you look at last Saturday's game !

 

Was the own goal not a rare mistake by 'Sir Roger'?

I remember Rafferty - was a real handful.  Think he got a shot of the 'big time' at Newcastle and maybe Villa but he didn't cut it - a step too far.  Finished with more clubs than Rory Mcllroy.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

In some positive news, the quotes from Mulgrew in the LT would suggest that he is staying for the fight

I normally work on the assumption that modern players say one thing then do the exactly the opposite. Therefore my conclusion is he'll be off ASAP.

[blueboy3333]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

In some positive news, the quotes from Mulgrew in the LT would suggest that he is staying for the fight

He might be staying, but if reports of him jumping out of tackles and squealing like a little piggy are true he certainly won't be fighting.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Mercer said:

Was the own goal not a rare mistake by 'Sir Roger'?

I remember Rafferty - was a real handful.  Think he got a shot of the 'big time' at Newcastle and maybe Villa but he didn't cut it - a step too far.  Finished with more clubs than Rory Mcllroy.

In my minds eye I can see Metcalfe " passing " the ball back into the top corner of our goal after a Plymouth corner. Not really a goalkeeping error.

Rafferty had all that Mariner had with added skill on the ball. He did do the rounds after Plymouth. I remember seeing him playing with Blackpool I think.

[oldjamfan1]

5 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

In my minds eye I can see Metcalfe " passing " the ball back into the top corner of our goal after a Plymouth corner. Not really a goalkeeping error.

Rafferty had all that Mariner had with added skill on the ball. He did do the rounds after Plymouth. I remember seeing him playing with Blackpool I think.

I think that Mecky OG was against Newcastle at St James Park

 

This one 

 

[arbitro]

22 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Was the own goal not a rare mistake by 'Sir Roger'?

I remember Rafferty - was a real handful.  Think he got a shot of the 'big time' at Newcastle and maybe Villa but he didn't cut it - a step too far.  Finished with more clubs than Rory Mcllroy.

I recall Paul Marriner, Bobby Saxton and perhaps Jim Furnell in the Plymouth side that day too.

[Gav]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

 

This lot today would have crumbled.

Not Gordon Lee's lads.  We went on to win 5-2 with a brace from Hickman (£10,000 signing from Grimsby) on debut.

That is the spirit, commitment and character we need in the club.  Sadly, it seems we are miles away.

I understand what you're saying mercer and you do make a valid point, but how many teams these days have that kind of spirit, commitment and charterer? 

The game these days is devoid of such attributes in my opinion.

I noticed we touched on Jason Lowe on the last page, mate who went on Saturday and hated Lowe said to me:

"Never thought i'd say this, but we missed Lowe pressing the ball, hurrying the opposition, they had time to read the paper in the first half"

Ps - Just seen the goals from Saturday, embarrassing..... 

[DE.]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/15456473._We_are_in_for_a_fight____Charlie_Mulgrew_gives_an_honest_assessment_as_Rovers_beaten_at_Southend_United/?ref=mac

“If we didn’t realise it, we do now, we’re in for a fight and we need to win the battle first this year...It was physical, it was battle,” Mulgrew said of life in League 1.

No excuses from now on from the players or the manager. They aren't in the Championship anymore. They're going to have to put a few tackles in in this league.

Useless preening ponces.

I find this quote kind of astonishing. How could any of the players not realise League 1 was going to be a physical battle? This should have been drummed into them from the very start of pre-season. Granted, the players should have known what to expect without being told, but significant amounts of time should have been spent on prepping the players for this type of football. Saturday worryingly suggests we haven't put much if any emphasis on the physical side of the game in this league. If so we're in for a long and miserable season of being repeatedly bullied off the pitch. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, oldjamfan1 said:

I think that Mecky OG was against Newcastle at St James Park

 

This one 

 

I could be totally wrong but how I remember the own goal was a Plymouth corner at the Darwen End was cleared out to Metcalfe who was standing towards the corner of the penalty area. He very calmly first timed a side footed volley back towards our goal. Unfortunately the ball went straight into the near top corner of our goal.

I was standing on the Riverside about half way up the terrace half way between our goal and the half way line so I had a perfect view of the incident.

 

Of course I could have eaten too much cheese last night and dreamt the lot !

[JHRover]

I'm afraid sob stories about the nature of this league aren't acceptable. If it is significantly 'more physical' than the Championship then that is no excuse for poor results.

This manager and his assistant know this division having been in it for 18 months with Coventry City very recently. Of the players signed this summer Dack, Gladwin, Caddis and Chapman all know the division having played in it recently.

Of the starting 11 on Saturday 7 of them played regularly in the Championship together last season and 3 of them have had the whole of pre-season to settle in and prepare (Whittingham, Smallwood and Dack). The only one I can begin to excuse is Samuel as he arrived quite recently and hasn't featured much in the friendlies.

So I don't really want to hear tales of needing time to settle or get used to Mowbray or playing together. The majority of the squad played together regularly all last season, the manager has been here for nearly 6 months and those signed were supposedly done so early doors so they could settle in over the summer and hit the ground running fully aware of what they were up against.

Yes its early doors and I understand that other clubs in the past have got off to slow starts and still got promoted but on the evidence of what I watched on Saturday there is a lot of hard work to do.

[G Somerset Rover]

16 minutes ago, DE. said:

I find this quote kind of astonishing. How could any of the players not realise League 1 was going to be a physical battle? This should have been drummed into them from the very start of pre-season. Granted, the players should have known what to expect without being told, but significant amounts of time should have been spent on prepping the players for this type of football. Saturday worryingly suggests we haven't put much if any emphasis on the physical side of the game in this league. If so we're in for a long and miserable season of being repeatedly bullied off the pitch. 

A fair few of them have even won promotion from the league, so as you say, quite an astonishing comment unless he's talking about his own personal experience. Either way, it's about time the lads grew some pairs.

[Shrimper]

41 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Good post. My thoughts exactly about 4-4-2. We have the players to beat teams if we play them at their own game. No fancy stuff!

Undoubtedly. Most of us rational shrimpers thought exactly that, prior to 3pm on Saturday. Now, If only Mowbray can work that out, I guarentee you will be a force in this division. 

[jim mk2]

31 minutes ago, Gav said:

I understand what you're saying mercer and you do make a valid point, but how many teams these days have that kind of spirit, commitment and charterer? 

The game these days is devoid of such attributes in my opinion.

I noticed we touched on Jason Lowe on the last page, mate who went on Saturday and hated Lose said to me:

"Never thought i'd say this, but we missed Lowe pressing the ball, hurrying the opposition, they had time to read the paper in the first half"

Ps - Just seen the goals from Saturday, embarrassing..... 

 

Lowe's been replaced by a player who's not as good as him but the fans are happy because their bete noire has gone.

Make sense of that one. 

Southend result was entirely predictable and a wake up to those who think we'll walk this league. 

[DE.]

I'm absolutely confident Lowe would have had 0% impact on Saturday's result if he had been playing. We needed a character out there who could take a game by the scruff of the neck and hand out a few bollockings to players who looked like they'd rather be anywhere else. Lowe isn't that person.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

49 minutes ago, DE. said:

I find this quote kind of astonishing. How could any of the players not realise League 1 was going to be a physical battle? This should have been drummed into them from the very start of pre-season. Granted, the players should have known what to expect without being told, but significant amounts of time should have been spent on prepping the players for this type of football. Saturday worryingly suggests we haven't put much if any emphasis on the physical side of the game in this league. If so we're in for a long and miserable season of being repeatedly bullied off the pitch. 

It simply points to our players having the wrong mentality...it's what I fear the most when every  team in this league will raise their game against us.

I was convinced Mowbrey was the man to install the right mentality into his players...I'm standing by that(fingers crossed).

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Unfortunately this feels like when we first got relegated from the Premiership - on paper a good squad, but not necessarily suited to life in a lower league.

After one match, no matter how inept - not going to throw toys out of pram just yet.

Hopefully it will highlight where we need to improve - from the sounds of it, we need an old fashioned centre half suited to this league - and I would suggest either a forward with pace or a battering ram to hold the ball up.

Didn't see the match - but if Danny Graham got the service he received last season - not surprised he had a poor match. Play it on the ground and he has half a chance - and is excellent at getting his body to protect the ball - keep lumping it up to him in the air and he will be useless.

 

[lraC]

18 hours ago, dallydally said:

Mulgrew saying the players are gutted and need to learn the lessons. Spot on Charlie!!  ?

When the players, start to be as gutted as the fans, we may start to move in the right direction. We have all been reading and posting on this site all weekend, as we are gutted that we have lost out first game at this level, for many a year. I am so gutted at what's happening at the club, that I wake up in the middle of the night and it's immediately on my mind. Much as I try, I can't help myself loving the club, despite the owners, despite the people who have come and gone with their dollop of wedge from the club and is some cases are still here.  Oh how I wish that we could get people in at the club, who are genuinely gutted, when things go wrong, instead of providing soundbites.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

2 minutes ago, SIMON GARNERS 194 said:

It simply points to our players having the wrong mentality...it's what I fear the most when every  team in this league will raise their game against us.

I was convinced Mowbrey was the man to install the right mentality into his players...I'm standing by that(fingers crossed).

Its a tough one for any team that has been relegated - trying to build up confidence in a team used to losing, but also trying to keep it realistic about the scale of the task.

 

[lraC]

2 hours ago, Mercer said:

 

 

Those of us about in 1975 long remember the Plymouth promotion epic at Ewood in the old 3rd Division (the equivalent league we now play in).

Plymouth were our nearest rivals and I remember their fans arriving in tens of coaches well before 10.00 on the Saturday morning.

The atmosphere was electric as the game started. 

It couldn't have been worse.  We were 2-0 down after about 15 minutes and then Jim Furnell (later to run Rovers' youth set-up) saved a penalty from 'The Don' (Don Martin).

This lot today would have crumbled.

Not Gordon Lee's lads.  We went on to win 5-2 with a brace from Hickman (£10,000 signing from Grimsby) on debut.

That is the spirit, commitment and character we need in the club.  Sadly, it seems we are miles away.

I was 10 at the time, and can say hand on heart, I have never witnessed a game as good in my life. It didn't matter a jot that it was the third division, we were simply fantastic that day. The Fact that the Darwen ends was simply swamped in the green of Plymouth, a lot of who had arrived by special train at 8.00am and smashed to town to bits, made it even sweeter. It was days like that, as a youngster, that made me love the club as I do, as those were the days that made you proud to be a Rover.