[Archived] When will the next general election be called?

[philipl]

If referenda are irreversible, the resounding remain result in 1975 holds precedence over the pipsqueak leave in 2016. 

[Skiptonrover]

Go on nige have a good laugh you've earnt it.

[Al]

14 hours ago, philipl said:

If referenda are irreversible, the resounding remain result in 1975 holds precedence over the pipsqueak leave in 2016. 

That referendum was for a common market and certainly not for a united states of Europe. You are once more twisting the facts.

Edit - I'm trying not to post on here but that was so blatant I had to break my own rule.

[Baz]

15 hours ago, Bluebarley said:

Having taking time out to articulate a careful & considerate response to the post leaves me to agree with most points whilst being a staunch brexiteer if thats the tag! The only point I really don't agree with is the immigration policy, I do think that is a negative factor with people being deprived of job employment opportunities & a crumbling infrastructure which is clearly close to a breaking point with the demands that is being forced upon it.

This is / was a key reason for people supporting Brexit. I just don't see it personally. 

Even with the immigration we have seen, we have very high employment levels.

Infrastructure is down mainly to the government to plan accordingly, but a large amount of large-scale infrastructure projects (especially in the north) have had big inputs from the EU development funds.

Besides even under current laws we could, if we chose to, limit non-EU migration easier, and if we chose to enact the right to remove any EU citizen if they havent found work after 6 months, limit the EU migration too. Why do we choose not to? Simply because the benefits outway the costs.

Yes there will be some things that frustrate us with the EU, as there will be with ANY trade deal we strike, but you sometimes need to look at the overall deal and ask if there's a net benefit, to me that's an overwhelming yes. It's a massive leap of faith to just walk away from that to a POTENTIAL of a trade deal with the US, Australia etc when currently those countries provide only a small fraction of your income.

It's frankly laughable to me that people fell for Farages vision of some kind of a second British Empire, but many people have.

[Skiptonrover]

That's another in my keepnet. A slight majority decision has taken place we should be finding ways to embrace & assist brexit whether we agree with it or not, I think some people the other 48% or whatever are just determined to find obstacles & hinder brexit. If I voted brexit & remain won I'd just simply accept it. We know something clearly isn't working why not try something new. I don't understand why there's such a fear from certain people to do something different perhaps it could be better who knows until we do. Least worth a try.

[den]

It's for the leavers to embrace and assist Brexit. It's up to them to come up with the answers to many of the problems that are already apparent.  The brexit secretary is having a nightmare so far. I'm sure he's open to offers of help. He's not getting much is he. The Tories can't agree on anything, neither can Labour. There's a reason for that - they know they can't deliver what the leave campaigners promised the UK electorate. They said this was going to be easy.

until then, it's going to take a hell of a lot to get the remainers backing any of this shambles. They'll continue to oppose brexit because they simply don't believe in it. - Just as Farage said he wouldn't accept a close remain vote, nor will the remainers.

 

[jim mk2]

41 minutes ago, Bluebarley said:

We know something clearly isn't working why not try something new. 

What wasn't working ? The EU has brought 40 years of prosperity to this country and 75 years of peace in Europe. 

[jim mk2]

19 hours ago, Bluebarley said:

Other countries have managed without too many problems. 

No other country has left the EU before. 

[Skiptonrover]

7 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

No other country has left the EU before. 

Countries which hadn't subscribed to the all shebang in the first place. I'm outnumbered here (hyena alert) I'm clearly the only brexiteer fighting the corner here. If you think the EU has brought prosperity & peace that's beyond any sensible counter comment it's a absurd & ludicrous the borders are open terrorism is rife, people just walk into the country unchecked threatening national security. Do I need to go on with what's wrong it would take all day as a gross understatement.

[jim mk2]

9 minutes ago, Bluebarley said:

Countries which hadn't subscribed to the all shebang in the first place. I'm outnumbered here (hyena alert) I'm clearly the only brexiteer fighting the corner here. If you think the EU has brought prosperity & peace that's beyond any sensible counter comment it's a absurd & ludicrous the borders are open terrorism is rife, people just walk into the country unchecked threatening national security. Do I need to go on with what's wrong it would take all day as a gross understatement.

Which countries ? If you're referring to Norway and Switzerland, they are not members of the EU but are still part of the single market but have to allow freedom of movement. 

The EU was born out of a Europe that had suffered 2 world world wars in 30 years. Since then it has brought peace to Europe. The rise of radical Islam and the threat of terrorism is a direct result of the decision of the US and UK to invade the Muslim Middle East countries 20 years and has nothing to do with the EU. 

[Baz]

3 hours ago, Bluebarley said:

That's another in my keepnet. A slight majority decision has taken place we should be finding ways to embrace & assist brexit whether we agree with it or not, I think some people the other 48% or whatever are just determined to find obstacles & hinder brexit. If I voted brexit & remain won I'd just simply accept it. We know something clearly isn't working why not try something new. I don't understand why there's such a fear from certain people to do something different perhaps it could be better who knows until we do. Least worth a try.

Why should I quietly accept and support something that I believe is to the detriment of myself and my country? You think Farage would have accepted a 48/52 split in defeat? 

I'm sorry but that's just a way of telling people to shut up and not debate things. 

I no way am I saying because I voted remain that somehow I'm trying to hinder the process, I just think the impetus is on those who had such good plans they where certain of before the vote, to stand forward and enact them, because at this moment they are far away from doing that. What exactly is Boris doing, or Gove other than having a go at people for not being positive?

(I'm aware your a bit on your own in the debate on here, but its not personal.)

[Mike E]

2 hours ago, Bluebarley said:

Countries which hadn't subscribed to the all shebang in the first place. I'm outnumbered here (hyena alert) I'm clearly the only brexiteer fighting the corner here. If you think the EU has brought prosperity & peace that's beyond any sensible counter comment it's a absurd & ludicrous the borders are open terrorism is rife, people just walk into the country unchecked threatening national security. Do I need to go on with what's wrong it would take all day as a gross understatement.

Incorrect, our deal with the EU was tailored to allow us to check whomever we like, more so because we are an island with a natural sea border.

If it WAS the case that people walked through unchecked (clear BS from my own experience of returning from European holidays) then, because of the nature of our deal, your ire should be aimed at our Border Force and Government, not the EU.

[Skiptonrover]

It was more related to EU visas rather than holiday jaunts, I'm forever reading the paper about people committing crimes in there own countries then coming here (we discover that later not before). which suggests to me that we aren't too fussy about who comes here (providing you are from the EU) there must a very loose vetting policy or a complete lack of information security to security for these things to be happening. The countries I was referring to before were countries not even in the EU independent from Europe who manage without some complex system governing them everything is managed simply from 1 HQ. No red tape, minimum civil servants, accountability & traceability coexist seamlessly.

[Skiptonrover]

1 hour ago, Baz said:

Why should I quietly accept and support something that I believe is to the detriment of myself and my country? You think Farage would have accepted a 48/52 split in defeat? 

I'm sorry but that's just a way of telling people to shut up and not debate things. 

I no way am I saying because I voted remain that somehow I'm trying to hinder the process, I just think the impetus is on those who had such good plans they where certain of before the vote, to stand forward and enact them, because at this moment they are far away from doing that. What exactly is Boris doing, or Gove other than having a go at people for not being positive?

(I'm aware your a bit on your own in the debate on here, but its not personal.)

Gove will be more effective he's got his own crusade with what happened with his father & the fishing industry, I actually think Gove has all the right credentials to be a good PM. Like I said before we all had our say democracy has delivered a result decided by a slight majority we can all make it work or we can drag our feet. For the greater good I know which way I'd prefer to go about doing things.

[philipl]

http://www.scmp.com/business/global-economy/article/2101946/britains-economy-already-disasterbrexit-final-nail-coffin

The view from Hong Kong this morning.

[dave birch]

2 hours ago, philipl said:

http://www.scmp.com/business/global-economy/article/2101946/britains-economy-already-disasterbrexit-final-nail-coffin

The view from Hong Kong this morning.

philipl:

Cut and pasted from the article. This morning?

 

PUBLISHED : Monday, 10 July, 2017, 11:15am

UPDATED : Monday, 10 July, 2017, 10:39pm

 

Comments: 24 

 

 

I have no comment on the contents of the article, but the comments are interesting to read.

[Gav]

Jeremy Hunt today announces 21,000 new mental health posts by 2021, on the face of it very welcome indeed after cutting 6000 posts since 2010.

But I wonder if Jeremy realises that due to trainee nurse tuition fees coming in this September, pay caps and general Tory policy on NHS, the national health service has a recruitment crisis, we can't fill current positions Jeremy and you have no chance of meeting that target have you?

Where do they come up with such ludicrous ideas? they're supposed to be educated people?

Heads in the sand, Jim we need picture

 

[Baz]

For anyone who doubts we are London Centric...

[philipl]

22 hours ago, dave birch said:

philipl:

Cut and pasted from the article. This morning?

 

PUBLISHED : Monday, 10 July, 2017, 11:15am

UPDATED : Monday, 10 July, 2017, 10:39pm

 

Comments: 24 

 

 

I have no comment on the contents of the article, but the comments are interesting to read.

Indeed 11 support the article, 5 broadly neutral and 8 disagree.

[MCMC1875]

On 7/28/2017 at 10:05, Gav said:

Jimbo you're right about some commuter lines in the south, having done them myself for a year I can certainly sympathise with you.

But I have to say again, how can it be right that it takes between 2.5 and 3hrs to get to Sheffield from Blackburn by train? a trip of some 65 miles?

Leeds to Sheffield - 1hr? 30 miles away?

Blackburn to Ravenglass in west lakes - 3hrs - 80 miles?

Blackburn to Liverpool - 2hrs!!! 40 miles away?

Clitheroe to Manchester isn't a bad time just over an hour, but often 1/2 carriages full to bursting and £2200 for a season ticket......

Scandalous and the Tories have promised to electrify the lines and pulled the funding.

Thankfully they'll be out at the next election and lets see if Labour can do anything about it.

There was a perfectly good direct line from Blackburn via Ormskirk to Liverpool until British Rail closed a half mile stretch at Farington and Merseyrail severed the remaining line west of Farington at Ormskirk. There is a signal at Farington still showing the line branching off to Liverpool. Three detached houses have been built on the trackbed. Before that, this line had been the fastest route from Liverpool to Blackburn, Blackpool and Scotland. Ironically Dr Beeching had recommended saving this line for express services from Liverpool to Blackburn, Blackpool and Scotland.

To reinstate the service, the line would have to be reconnected at Ormskirk, the three houses would have to be bought at Farington and the missing section reinstated and Liverpool Exchange Station would have to be reopened.

[den]

Friend of mine taken to Royal Preston Hospital after collapsing at the wheel around 8 PM last night. He was put on a trolley in the corridor and was still on it this morning along with 5 others.

This is mid-summer A&E under the Tories. Where's the Daily Mail and the Express on this one?

So angry. ?

[Skiptonrover]

1 hour ago, den said:

Friend of mine taken to Royal Preston Hospital after collapsing at the wheel around 8 PM last night. He was put on a trolley in the corridor and was still on it this morning along with 5 others.

This is mid-summer A&E under the Tories. Where's the Daily Mail and the Express on this one?

So angry. ?

Hope your friend is OK, he's lucky he doesn't live in Wales.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4114944/Jeremy-Corbyn-blames-Tories-NHS-crisis-look-Labour-run-Wales.html

 

[den]

48 minutes ago, Bluebarley said:

Hope your friend is OK, he's lucky he doesn't live in Wales.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4114944/Jeremy-Corbyn-blames-Tories-NHS-crisis-look-Labour-run-Wales.html

 

Thanks. I haven't heard any more.

your link is for Wales mid winter. This is happening in England in midsummer under the Tory Govt. What will happen come winter time?

[jim mk2]

Radio 5 Live discussion today. Jacob Rees-Mogg is being mooted as a serious possible Tory leader when the Maybot inevitably gets kicked out by her party in the next 6 months.

Now much as I love this country, there are some red lines and the prospect of that ludicrous, unctious, reactionary, ultra right wing throwback to Victorian England in Downing Street would see me heading for the nearest airport. 

 

[Skiptonrover]

28 minutes ago, den said:

Thanks. I haven't heard any more.

your link is for Wales mid winter. This is happening in England in midsummer under the Tory Govt. What will happen come winter time?

Fail to see any seasonal correlation, summer brings it's own set of demands for the NHS with the heat I will admit though due to EU policy the service is under severe demand & increasingly so.