[Archived] When will the next general election be called?

[Skiptonrover]

10 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

You seem to have fallen for the right wing propaganda yourself, Baz.  The 'centre ground' has shifted so far to the right as to make it meaningless. Michael Foot would see Corbyn as a neo-liberal.

Pushing political differences aside, he's not far out with the assessment, Corbyn has his hands tied to a certain degree well a large degree until the locksmith gets the keys cut to 10 Downing Street with JC initials etched.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I wouldn't say the right hated Blair, some of them admired him. They soon saw the way the wind was blowing and they'd nothing to fear under New Labour. Just a watered down version of the Thatcherite policies that have ultimately led us to where we are now.

The Labour vote crumbled under Blair's leadership, primarily because large numbers of  the foot soldiers of the party, the people who get out the vote at election times, walked away in disgust.

At least now the scales have fallen from most people's eyes regarding " austerity " and the agenda now is being moved away from the old discredited policies. The Labour Party is beginning to be the party of working people again and Socialism is not the dirty word Blair wanted it to be.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Anybody else watch that programme on TV last night regarding the Labour Party and the last election ? The way the right wing MP's changed horses was hilarious. I thought the Kinnocks ( dad and lad ) were going to cry when the results were announced. All their plans of making waves after the election down the drain. Kinnock the lad didn't come out of it well at all. A slippery, slimy creature who needs his wife to think for him. As for the woman MP who was surprised she got criticised for writing an article in " The Sun " , how stupid can you be ?

[Baz]

12 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Anybody else watch that programme on TV last night regarding the Labour Party and the last election ? The way the right wing MP's changed horses was hilarious. I thought the Kinnocks ( dad and lad ) were going to cry when the results were announced. All their plans of making waves after the election down the drain. Kinnock the lad didn't come out of it well at all. A slippery, slimy creature who needs his wife to think for him. As for the woman MP who was surprised she got criticised for writing an article in " The Sun " , how stupid can you be ?

Which station was it on?

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Baz said:

Which station was it on?

BBC -2 at 9.00 last night if I remember correctly.

[Baz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

BBC -2 at 9.00 last night if I remember correctly.

Ta, I'll see if it's on iplayer

[Mike E]

So now our Government believes animals are NOT sentient beings, essentially wiping out our animal cruelty prevention laws.

When the world has gone from Empires ruled by Emprerors, and we've gone from a Kingdom ruled by Kings, now we're just a Country ruled by...

[Biddy]

10 hours ago, Mike E said:

So now our Government believes animals are NOT sentient beings, essentially wiping out our animal cruelty prevention laws.

When the world has gone from Empires ruled by Emprerors, and we've gone from a Kingdom ruled by Kings, now we're just a Country ruled by...

Any context or link?  I think I must have missed something.

[Mike E]

2 minutes ago, Biddy said:

Any context or link?  I think I must have missed something.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-bill-latest-animal-sentience-cannot-feel-pain-emotion-vote-mps-agree-eu-withdrawal-bill-a8064676.html

My presumption is that if our Parliament (not Govt, that was an error in my last post) thinks animals can't feel pain, then it renders our animal cruelty laws redundant and unenforceable as most rely on the premise of 'causing suffering to an animal'.

Animals at the VERY least feel anger and fear (hence 'fight or flight') and any pet owners will tell you how awful it feels to hear that yelp when you accidentally trod on a tail or paw.

[ChrisyG]

4 minutes ago, Mike E said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-bill-latest-animal-sentience-cannot-feel-pain-emotion-vote-mps-agree-eu-withdrawal-bill-a8064676.html

My presumption is that if our Parliament (not Govt, that was an error in my last post) thinks animals can't feel pain, then it renders our animal cruelty laws redundant and unenforceable as most rely on the premise of 'causing suffering to an animal'.

Animals at the VERY least feel anger and fear (hence 'fight or flight') and any pet owners will tell you how awful it feels to hear that yelp when you accidentally trod on a tail or paw.

I doubt any MP belives animals don't feel pain. This is what Zac Goldsmith had to say on the subject.

[Al]

Sounds to me like a justification for halal slaughter. It's barbaric.

[Skiptonrover]

We should have 1 humane slaughtering method & 1 only as a law of the land, if people wish to practise alternative slaughtering methods in the name of religion they don't/shouldn't belong here in my book.

[Mike E]

3 hours ago, ChrisyG said:

I doubt any MP belives animals don't feel pain. This is what Zac Goldsmith had to say on the subject.

So why vote against including animal sentience in our own laws? At least use it to enhance the Animal Welfare Act.

[ChrisyG]

I’m not sure Mike, sorry. I would email your local MP and ask.

I do remember a tweet I saw around that time which I’ve managed to find. It’s from Henry Smith MP and may be relevant.

[Mike E]

15 hours ago, ChrisyG said:

I’m not sure Mike, sorry. I would email your local MP and ask.

I do remember a tweet I saw around that time which I’ve managed to find. It’s from Henry Smith MP and may be relevant.

Interesting find, thank you.

[Vinjay]

21 hours ago, Skiptonrover said:

We should have 1 humane slaughtering method & 1 only as a law of the land, if people wish to practise alternative slaughtering methods in the name of religion they don't/shouldn't belong here in my book.

I don't think you can ever put "humane" and "slaughtering method" in the same sentence lol.

[Skiptonrover]

As humane as possible I meant - instantly the way I'd like to go.

[Vinjay]

I know what you meant. Animal welfare is way down my list of priorities though I do believe slaughterhouses should use the quickest method or put them to sleep painlessly first. Still I can't call killing a perfectly healthy animal (unless its a dangerous dog or something) "humane" under any circumstances especially alongside words like slaughtering!

[Rover-the-Top]

On 22/11/2017 at 10:26, Mike E said:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-bill-latest-animal-sentience-cannot-feel-pain-emotion-vote-mps-agree-eu-withdrawal-bill-a8064676.html

My presumption is that if our Parliament (not Govt, that was an error in my last post) thinks animals can't feel pain, then it renders our animal cruelty laws redundant and unenforceable as most rely on the premise of 'causing suffering to an animal'.

Animals at the VERY least feel anger and fear (hence 'fight or flight') and any pet owners will tell you how awful it feels to hear that yelp when you accidentally trod on a tail or paw.

https://order-order.com/2017/11/23/viral-animal-sentience-fake-news-story-seen-by-2-million-people/

[Paul]

So all that austerity business has worked well. Great to see the Tories doing so much for the country. Between austerity and Brexit they’ve effectively killed us off for decades and generations to come - it isn’t suddenly going to get better in 2022.

Still what would you expect from a government and chancellor cynical enough to bribe its core voters and their children with a tax giveaway via stamp duty and disguise as helping people to get in to the housing market. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

30 minutes ago, Paul said:

So all that austerity business has worked well. Great to see the Tories doing so much for the country. Between austerity and Brexit they’ve effectively killed us off for decades and generations to come - it isn’t suddenly going to get better in 2022.

Still what would you expect from a government and chancellor cynical enough to bribe its core voters and their children with a tax giveaway via stamp duty and disguise as helping people to get in to the housing market. 

When this rabble and their Lib Dem chums got in after the 2010 election they couldn't wait to start cutting. Instead of just leaving things alone for a while  and allowing the economy to carry on getting back on an even keel it was cut, cut, cut. They've always railed against " The Socialist Ratchet " all my life and the crisis gave them the cover to start dismantling the welfare state. Now look at the position they've got us in ! History will regard this administration as the worst we've ever had and we've had some bad ones over the years.

Now we have Brexit on the horizon. 

It's like a person having flu and being advised to go and stand out in the rain !

[philipl]

This is as good an indicator that a General Election with a Labour Government is not too far away as you can get.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-24/u-k-labour-consults-57-billion-hedge-fund-shorting-pound

Labour will have a simple choice:

Remain in the single market/customs union/EU

or 

Their economic and social policy

 

They cannot afford both

[Paul]

10 hours ago, philipl said:

This is as good an indicator that a General Election with a Labour Government is not too far away as you can get.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-11-24/u-k-labour-consults-57-billion-hedge-fund-shorting-pound

Labour will have a simple choice:

Remain in the single market/customs union/EU

or 

Their economic and social policy

 

They cannot afford both

Philip could you expand on why Labour will have to chose? Are you suggesting the cost of remaining in the single market/EU/customs union is so high we cannot afford as a country to also enjoy decent economic and social policies? I would have thought there was a strong argument which says without the single market we cannot grow our economy to raise the taxes needed to fulfill the social and economic policies. 

On Question Time last Thursday Diane Abbot suggested Labour would borrow £50 billion to invest in infrastructure as current low interest rates would mean this borrowing could generate an 8/9% return. Personally I’d support such borrowing and even more.

I came to post here this evening to comment on Preston city centre. I rarely shop in town or city centres - not because I go out of town but because I’m not much of a consumer. I have most of what I need, I’ve spent £35 on clothing for example this year! (Socks for Christmas please!)

However I was in Preston today, ready to spend £100-150 on walking boots. The one shop I visited showed zero interest in me and didn’t have size 8 in stock - this is black Sunday!! I had understood Preston to be prospering relative to Blackburn and other local towns. Perhaps 50% of the city centre property looked tatty, people looked depressed and, frankly, poor, there must have been 30 apparently homeless people wrapped in sleeping bags etc. on Fishergate. 

If ever one needed to understand the terrible reality of Britain today Preston’s main shopping street just four weeks before Christmas showed it. There is no seasonal retail bonanza approaching.

This country needs a Labour administration prepared to borrow tens of billions to invest in every aspect of our infrastructure. Houses, schools, hospitals, roads, railways. Such investment really could kick start our economy generating the tax income needed to give the British citizen the standard of living we should aspire to.

I know it’s just one tiny example but it left me feeling very depressed. It seems to me without serious investment we are finished for decades to come, with or without Brexit. 

I’ll visit Outdoor Action in Blackburn tomorrow. That will be interesting. 

[Skiptonrover]

19 minutes ago, Paul said:

Philip could you expand on why Labour will have to chose? Are you suggesting the cost of remaining in the single market/EU/customs union is so high we cannot afford as a country to also enjoy decent economic and social policies? I would have thought there was a strong argument which says without the single market we cannot grow our economy to raise the taxes needed to fulfill the social and economic policies. 

On Question Time last Thursday Diane Abbot suggested Labour would borrow £50 billion to invest in infrastructure as current low interest rates would mean this borrowing could generate an 8/9% return. Personally I’d support such borrowing and even more.

I came to post here this evening to comment on Preston city centre. I rarely shop in town or city centres - not because I go out of town but because I’m not much of a consumer. I have most of what I need, I’ve spent £35 on clothing for example this year! (Socks for Christmas please!)

However I was in Preston today, ready to spend £100-150 on walking boots. The one shop I visited showed zero interest in me and didn’t have size 8 in stock - this is black Sunday!! I had understood Preston to be prospering relative to Blackburn and other local towns. Perhaps 50% of the city centre property looked tatty, people looked depressed and, frankly, poor, there must have been 30 apparently homeless people wrapped in sleeping bags etc. on Fishergate. 

If ever one needed to understand the terrible reality of Britain today Preston’s main shopping street just four weeks before Christmas showed it. There is no seasonal retail bonanza approaching.

This country needs a Labour administration prepared to borrow tens of billions to invest in every aspect of our infrastructure. Houses, schools, hospitals, roads, railways. Such investment really could kick start our economy generating the tax income needed to give the British citizen the standard of living we should aspire to.

I know it’s just one tiny example but it left me feeling very depressed. It seems to me without serious investment we are finished for decades to come, with or without Brexit. 

I’ll visit Outdoor Action in Blackburn tomorrow. That will be interesting. 

It's far too early for that kind of caper we are not even in December yet, wait till early-mid December the mood will change dramatically, (Black Friday/ extensions mostly online). Regarding the boots it's a healthy budget I recommend brasher hillmaster or meindl. The last thing we need to do is borrow more money if history hasn't taught anything it never will.

[jim mk2]

 

Borrowing to invest is good, borrowing to pay the bills is not good. After 7 years of unnecessary austerity, this country badly needs investment in its infrastructure and public services. Britain was broke and bankrupt in 1945 yet a Labour government with a vision for a better Britain with judicious spending laid down the foundations for the welfare state and a golden economic period. We need similar bold action now.