Championship 2017/18

[arbitro]

I watched the Bolton game yesterday and in the build up they listed a series of restrictions imposed on them due to their perilous financial state. The one that struck me is that they are only allowed to pay players up to £4.5k per week. I assume this applies to new signings and new contracts. They are not allowed to make season long loans and only have a 23 man squad.

Seems that fourth from bottom will be a success for our friends from Horwich.

[47er]

Anyone else notice the attendance figures for the Championship? Apart from Burton Albion, (and QPR) absolutely enormous.

Some big clubs down there now, (or is it up there?)

[JHRover]

54 minutes ago, 47er said:

Anyone else notice the attendance figures for the Championship? Apart from Burton Albion, (and QPR) absolutely enormous.

Some big clubs down there now, (or is it up there?)

Seems that there has been an influx of 'smaller' clubs to the Premier League in recent years.

In the 90s and 00s the Premier League featured the likes of Derby, Sheff Wed, Leeds, Forest etc. Even Rovers, as one of the 'smaller' clubs in there were still regularly getting 25,000+ crowds season after season. 

Now traditionally smaller, much less supported sides have managed to get into the Premier League and many survive in there, keeping the bigger clubs away from the top league. In years gone by their reputations and fanbases would have been a major advantage, but not any more. Swansea, Watford, Dingles, Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Stoke, West Brom - all sides who aren't part of the traditional 'big boys' elite. 

Obvious reason behind it is club 'size' and support is becoming less and less important in a world of sugardaddies and TV money. Another reason I get annoyed when people point to Rovers' crowds as a reason why we can't compete anymore when infact the number of people through the turnstiles is getting less important each season.

 

[47er]

4 hours ago, JHRover said:

Seems that there has been an influx of 'smaller' clubs to the Premier League in recent years.

In the 90s and 00s the Premier League featured the likes of Derby, Sheff Wed, Leeds, Forest etc. Even Rovers, as one of the 'smaller' clubs in there were still regularly getting 25,000+ crowds season after season. 

Now traditionally smaller, much less supported sides have managed to get into the Premier League and many survive in there, keeping the bigger clubs away from the top league. In years gone by their reputations and fanbases would have been a major advantage, but not any more. Swansea, Watford, Dingles, Huddersfield, Bournemouth, Stoke, West Brom - all sides who aren't part of the traditional 'big boys' elite. 

Obvious reason behind it is club 'size' and support is becoming less and less important in a world of sugardaddies and TV money. Another reason I get annoyed when people point to Rovers' crowds as a reason why we can't compete anymore when infact the number of people through the turnstiles is getting less important each season.

 

True,and I agree with everything you say but attendances in the Championship this weekend were nearer 30000 than 20. Thats unprecedented isn't it?

[north_ender]

On 05/08/2017 at 19:44, blueboy3333 said:

Twas ever thus. Terrible footballer, runs like he's crapped himself, but terrific finisher and movement in the box. At least that's how he was at Rovers. You happy with your new manager?

Still early days only one match in but the signs are promising. He says all the right things and we were decent in pre-season, then we played Sheffield Wednesday off the park on Saturday.

It seems to be on the deck a lot more and he seems a bit more intense/hard-working than Grayson, who did a good job but may have taken us as far as he could.

[tomphil]

14 hours ago, arbitro said:

I watched the Bolton game yesterday and in the build up they listed a series of restrictions imposed on them due to their perilous financial state. The one that struck me is that they are only allowed to pay players up to £4.5k per week. I assume this applies to new signings and new contracts. They are not allowed to make season long loans and only have a 23 man squad.

Seems that fourth from bottom will be a success for our friends from Horwich.

I seem to recall it was no more than 10k pwk for Rovers under our embargo. Is this because the ave wage in the champ is c10k pwk whilst it's c4.5k in league 1 or something ?

Our embargo did seem rather odd compared to others for some reason.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

On 5 August 2017 at 20:40, north_ender said:

Rhodes was absolute dross. Looks a terrible footballer who just has a knack of finding space and being able to finish, ask him to do anything else and he's useless.

First time I saw him play he was so slow I thought he was carrying an injury- he wasn't ! Very cool right foot finisher inside the penalty area. Doesn't panic and gives the ball just enough power. Very average header of the ball for a tall ish guy. Not a physical player in the slightest, rarely injured and very rarely troubles the officials. So plays plenty of games. Was he worth what we paid for him ? Err, no.

[MikeRovers]

1-Middlesbrough

2-Aston Villa

Play off winners- Wolves  

Relegation- Bolton, Burton, Millwall

[chaddyrovers]

Sky set to retain live Football League rights in £180m-a-year deal https://t.co/cVCwICVsgl

[blueboy3333]

On ‎05‎/‎08‎/‎2017 at 17:29, TAFKAP said:

Look at my avatar.

I feel like that sometimes too. Like tonight, for example.

[Stuart]

Bolton humbled by the mighty Hull last night.

It just shows how much damage is done by the drop to League One due a lack of owner investment and small fanbase.

If we are ever promoted out of this division it's going to be really difficult to compete even with the likes of Hull, Boro, West Brom, even Bumley.

What Venkys did was to drop us out of a lottery syndicate having already been given the winning numbers for a future mega jackpot, and our ugly cousin took our place - with our numbers!

Then they set about alienating the only other group of people who could help rebuild: the fans!

Our best 'hope' now long term is to be a yo-yo club between the Championship and League One and just wait for football to implode around us, while Venkys continue to fund their mistake by the least annual amount possible. With transfers netting themselves off.

For any normal big club in this situation (sneer away but I still feel that we have a pedigree that puts us in the top 40 teams in this country) they acclimatise and regroup, or see a change in ownership, and the fans get behind another upward push. Venkys still being here prevents us ever having a united fanbase. Almost every club which has turned a corner have done so through ownership change: Leeds, Forest, Man City, Portsmouth, Sheffield United. The two who haven't are Rovers and Coventry - and just look at us. Curiously Blackpool are the only exception to the trend and managed to gain promotion despite being eerily similar to Rovers - except that their owners are based here and do take an interest in the club.

[Claytons Left Boot]

See North End barely managed 11k in their home game v Reading last week. Beginning of season and all that. Some folk call Rovers fans fickle but that lot are something else. Still, only four 'majors' in their entire history, no notable games for decades, apart from their few play off non events, so I suppose the people from the town (I refuse to call it a city) with the lamb on its crest have become a bit bored with football.

[Claytons Left Boot]

52 minutes ago, Stuart said:

For any normal big club in this situation (sneer away but I still feel that we have a pedigree that puts us in the top 40 teams in this country)....

I think Stuart that we have a pedigree that puts us in the top 25 in the country at least. Can't just find the info but aren't we something like the 17th most successful English club of all time.

All clubs have their ups and downs over the years. We're on a downer at present but we'll bounce back as and when Venky's leave.

Folk think clubs like Forest, Wednesday, Sheffield United, Leeds (I ferkin hate them!) etc are big clubs. They aren't. They aren't small clubs by any means. They're just decent sized clubs that have the good fortune to be situated in large cities and, because of that, get decent crowds when they're doing well.

Based on :-

Founder members of Football League, Founder members of Premier League, Winners of 10 Majors, Years in European Competition, Size of Old Ewood, Size and Facilities of New Ewood, Facilities and Size of Brockhall, Record attendance 63k, Fan Base (albeit partly dormant/sleeping at present but will return)....

....we are at least in the top 25

 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_football_clubs_in_England_by_competitive_honours_won

Rovers ranked 12th most successful.No other town club comes close.

Blackburn Olympic make the list.....this town is steeped in Football history.Just makes our current dire situation even harder to bare.

Edited August 26, 2017 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[blueboy3333]

39 minutes ago, Claytons Left Boot said:

I think Stuart that we have a pedigree that puts us in the top 25 in the country at least. Can't just find the info but aren't we something like the 17th most successful English club of all time.

All clubs have their ups and downs over the years. We're on a downer at present but we'll bounce back as and when Venky's leave.

Folk think clubs like Forest, Wednesday, Sheffield United, Leeds (I ferkin hate them!) etc are big clubs. They aren't. They aren't small clubs by any means. They're just decent sized clubs that have the good fortune to be situated in large cities and, because of that, get decent crowds when they're doing well.

Based on :-

Founder members of Football League, Founder members of Premier League, Winners of 10 Majors, Years in European Competition, Size of Old Ewood, Size and Facilities of New Ewood, Facilities and Size of Brockhall, Record attendance 63k, Fan Base (albeit partly dormant/sleeping at present but will return)....

....we are at least in the top 25

 

By any definition Forest, Leeds and SW are 'big' clubs.

[Claytons Left Boot]

6 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

By any definition Forest, Leeds and SW are 'big' clubs.

Can't agree I'm afraid. Leeds has a population of 774k and if they get 30k on the odd occasion, the media ejaculate. Football, as far as their fans are concerned, only started in 1960 because, before that, no one had heard of them and they had won the square root of sod all. Sheffield Wednesday aren't too dissimilar. Forest won the European Cup twice in a very short period of time and they could be considered 'big' but other than a very good period of two decades, again haven't done too much for some considerable time. I'm not saying they are small, far from it, but certainly not in the league of Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, City etc. They're not big clubs, in my opinion, but they are housed in big cities.

[Stuart]

9 minutes ago, Claytons Left Boot said:

Can't agree I'm afraid. Leeds has a population of 774k and if they get 30k on the odd occasion, the media ejaculate. Football, as far as their fans are concerned, only started in 1960 because, before that, no one had heard of them and they had won the square root of sod all. Sheffield Wednesday aren't too dissimilar. Forest won the European Cup twice in a very short period of time and they could be considered 'big' but other than a very good period of two decades, again haven't done too much for some considerable time. I'm not saying they are small, far from it, but certainly not in the league of Man Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, City etc. They're not big clubs, in my opinion, but they are housed in big cities.

Chelsea a big club? Millwall with money.

[G Somerset Rover]

Steele dropped by Sunderland already.

[davulsukur]

Derby doing their best Rovers impression with some serious W@nkdog (credit Jal) defending

[bazza]

Leeds used to play in the city colours of blue and gold; lovely strip. They were known as "The Peacocks". Then Don Revie arrived on the scene and changed it to a Real Madrid style of all white. Up until then, the only league club to play in all white were Swansea Town.

Chelsea were a club that people in show business used to follow. They had respectable fans but were never as good as Arsenal and Spurs. Even West Ham and Charlton bettered them.

[jim mk2]

Barnsley might have hit the jackpot - an Chinese-American consortium is in talks to buy the club.

Interesting thing is the consortium is led to Bllly Beane of US baseball's "Moneyball" fame. 

[Stuart]

20 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Barnsley might have hit the jackpot - an Chinese-American consortium is in talks to buy the club.

Interesting thing is the consortium is led to Bllly Beane of US baseball's "Moneyball" fame. 

Billy Beane's Barnsley Baseball Bonanza

And Venkys still wouldn't sell.

[JHRover]

On 8/26/2017 at 11:52, blueboy3333 said:

By any definition Forest, Leeds and SW are 'big' clubs.

As far as my criteria go they aren't. They are 'bigger' than most in the Championship at the moment, have been big in the past, and could be big in the future. At this moment in time they aren't big. They're in the 2nd tier. 

Forest haven't even played in the top division this century, now 19 years and counting with several seasons in the third division;

Sheff Wed haven't been in the top division since about 2001 some 17 years and counting with several seasons in the third division;

Leeds haven't been in the top division since 2004 some 14 years and counting with several seasons in the third division.

Meanwhile clubs like Swansea, Brighton, Bournemouth, Watford, Palace, QPR, Fulham, Burnley, Rovers, Blackpool, Bolton, Wigan, Huddersfield and Stoke have done what they haven't been able to do.

Ignoring the League Cup which has more recently been won by ourselves, Swansea, Birmingham and Middlesbrough, none of those 3 clubs have won a major trophy in generations.

Big clubs compete at the top of the game for trophies, win trophies, play in Europe and are regulars in the top division. Therefore United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Everton and City. Not really any others at this moment in time. If Leeds go up, stay up, and start challenging those above for honours then they'll be big as they once were.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, JHRover said:

As far as my criteria go they aren't. They are 'bigger' than most in the Championship at the moment, have been big in the past, and could be big in the future. At this moment in time they aren't big. They're in the 2nd tier. 

Forest haven't even played in the top division this century, now 19 years and counting with several seasons in the third division;

Sheff Wed haven't been in the top division since about 2001 some 17 years and counting with several seasons in the third division;

Leeds haven't been in the top division since 2004 some 14 years and counting with several seasons in the third division.

Meanwhile clubs like Swansea, Brighton, Bournemouth, Watford, Palace, QPR, Fulham, Burnley, Rovers, Blackpool, Bolton, Wigan, Huddersfield and Stoke have done what they haven't been able to do.

Ignoring the League Cup which has more recently been won by ourselves, Swansea, Birmingham and Middlesbrough, none of those 3 clubs have won a major trophy in generations.

Big clubs compete at the top of the game for trophies, win trophies, play in Europe and are regulars in the top division. Therefore United, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea, Spurs, Everton and City. Not really any others at this moment in time. If Leeds go up, stay up, and start challenging those above for honours then they'll be big as they once were.

By your definition Leicester are bigger than Everton yet you fail to mention them. Liverpool haven't won the league for nearly 30 years, Everton longer. Playing in the top division on a regular basis doesn't make you a big club. Leeds will always be a bigger club than B'mouth even if B'mouth finish 10th in the top division for the next 20 years on the spin.

History, crowds, prestige, tradition,  trophies won, reputation, infrastructure etc all contribute to being a big club. Not just money and league position.

[Gav]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

By your definition Leicester are bigger than Everton yet you fail to mention them. Liverpool haven't won the league for nearly 30 years, Everton longer. Playing in the top division on a regular basis doesn't make you a big club. Leeds will always be a bigger club than B'mouth even if B'mouth finish 10th in the top division for the next 20 years on the spin.

History, crowds, prestige, tradition,  trophies won, reputation, infrastructure etc all contribute to being a big club. Not just money and league position.

I agree in principle with the last paragraph, but long after Leeds have bored everyone with talk about crowds, history and cups, little old Bournemouth will have bought and sold them 10 times over.

Times are changing, and you're now a big club if you have money and playing in the top league ensues that, that's the modern day criteria in my book.