Championship 2017/18

[roversfan99]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Barnsley under this new owner have been only going one way, down. awful interview process. 

I explained that I didn't comment on Barnsley as I haven't seen them at all since heckingbottom left. so how is that Hypocritical when its the truth when Ive seen the Stoke games so I can comment better on that situation than a situation I haven't watch or follow. 

I don't understand why they went for Morais or who advise them to appoint him. strange 

Just on the sole argument that Lambert hasnt had enough time, you are insistent on that, very defiant, Morais has had 1 more game than him (and 2 more wins) yet you arent saying the same line, whys he not getting more time.

Not difficult to understand my point. Performances, interviews, being appointed in the first place, nothing to do with it, the point is solely on time in the job, and the argument "Lambert hasnt had enough time" not being applicable in an almost identical situation with Morais.

Not difficult to understand.

[chaddyrovers]

20 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Just on the sole argument that Lambert hasnt had enough time, you are insistent on that, very defiant, Morais has had 1 more game than him (and 2 more wins) yet you arent saying the same line, whys he not getting more time.

Not difficult to understand my point. Performances, interviews, being appointed in the first place, nothing to do with it, the point is solely on time in the job, and the argument "Lambert hasnt had enough time" not being applicable in an almost identical situation with Morais.

Not difficult to understand.

Morais has been sacked and I did say 15 games is no time at all. but the process Barnsley conducted for this last head coach position was strange. 

[islander200]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

15 games is no time at all, from what I read he had a clause in his contract that release him if they went down? sensible management from Barnsley but it sounds like they weren't that confident in him from the start

Although I do agree that manager's should be given time but sometimes it obvious a change is needed.Case in point is Pardew at West Brom, I bet the owners regret not giving him the sack earlier if they had they could well have stayed up this season

[roversfan99]

Just as a barometer, we can all agree that Pardew needed to go.

Pardew had 3 wins from 21, Lambert 1 from 14.

Pardew got 14 points from 21, Lambert has 10 from 14.

 

[arbitro]

8 hours ago, islander200 said:

Although I do agree that manager's should be given time but sometimes it obvious a change is needed.Case in point is Pardew at West Brom, I bet the owners regret not giving him the sack earlier if they had they could well have stayed up this season

One of the problems I find is that when a manager who is clearly struggling and gets the sack invariably clubs just pick up one of the jobbers like Pardew. I think if he had gone earlier they would probably have brought a new manager in from the merry-go-round. They only appointed Darren Moore because they thought they were going down and now they have a dilemma. Do they stick with him or bring in one of the desperado characters who generally have made a success of failure but have one biggie on their CV's.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, arbitro said:

One of the problems I find is that when a manager who is clearly struggling and gets the sack invariably clubs just pick up one of the jobbers like Pardew. I think if he had gone earlier they would probably have brought a new manager in from the merry-go-round. They only appointed Darren Moore because they thought they were going down and now they have a dilemma. Do they stick with him or bring in one of the desperado characters who generally have made a success of failure but have one biggie on their CV's.

I seen WBA linked with Michael Appleton, Brentford head coach Dean Smith and Bristol City Manager Lee Johnson. Are these desperado characters? 

[Mattyblue]

Chaddy has obviously seen something in the games that’s he’s watched during that 1 win in 14 that has convinced him Lambert can sort them out.

Fair enough, not sure their fans agree like...

Edited May 7, 2018 by Mattyblue

[JHRover]

The majority of people on here seem to think Lambert is a bad manager. If that's true then we should be celebrating Stoke announcing they are keeping him as we should have no problem finishing above them next season. West Brom are managerless and are going to have an overhaul in personnel. If Johnson, Appleton and Smith are the frontrunners then it seems they are going down the young British but only proven at lower level managers. Only Appleton with 4th division Oxford has won promotion from that group. 

The Championship is full of basket cases of which we were one, hopefully those days are over and we can have another successful summer window with reasonable investment. 

We can keep on bleating about parachute money for some clubs up there but there's plenty who don't have parachute money who have owners pumping money in - Forest, Wednesday, Derby etc. So there's nothing stopping Venkys from doing similar rather than hiding behind parachute money and FFP.

There's also plenty of skint clubs who survive - Bolton, Brentford, Ipswich - who between them have spent a pittance who we should be outspending if Venkys truly are giving Mowbray their 'full support'

Edited May 7, 2018 by JHRover

[Mattyblue]

Millwall have proven that you can make good stab at the Championship if you can harness that momentum.

Longer term Preston and Brentford are there and there abouts each year on 10,000 crowds.

[Butty]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

Chaddy has obviously seen something in the games that’s he’s watched during that 1 win in 14 for that has convinced him Lambert can sort them out.

Fair enough, not sure their fans agree like...

If you're starting Premier league games with Crouch and Diouf up top you're not winning many games. The core of that side is an aging one as well, interested too see how they get on with Lambert in the championship next season, that's if he keeps his job! 

[blueboy3333]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2018/may/07/cardiff-not-liked-neil-warnock-promotion-premier-league

Cardiff's 'outstanding candidate' has done a fine old job. it will be good to see him pissing off a few of the Prem managers.

[chaddyrovers]

59 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Chaddy has obviously seen something in the games that’s he’s watched during that 1 win in 14 that has convinced him Lambert can sort them out.

Fair enough, not sure their fans agree like...

I have see an improvement in tactical and fitness. Performances have been better but results have follow. far too many mistakes being made. 

I would some fans don't agree and I've seen some fans agreeing with me tho. just like people did when they question Mowbray after 11 games. 

57 minutes ago, JHRover said:

The majority of people on here seem to think Lambert is a bad manager. If that's true then we should be celebrating Stoke announcing they are keeping him as we should have no problem finishing above them next season. West Brom are managerless and are going to have an overhaul in personnel. If Johnson, Appleton and Smith are the frontrunners then it seems they are going down the young British but only proven at lower level managers. Only Appleton with 4th division Oxford has won promotion from that group. 

The Championship is full of basket cases of which we were one, hopefully those days are over and we can have another successful summer window with reasonable investment. 

We can keep on bleating about parachute money for some clubs up there but there's plenty who don't have parachute money who have owners pumping money in - Forest, Wednesday, Derby etc. So there's nothing stopping Venkys from doing similar rather than hiding behind parachute money and FFP.

There's also plenty of skint clubs who survive - Bolton, Brentford, Ipswich - who between them have spent a pittance who we should be outspending if Venkys truly are giving Mowbray their 'full support'

These 3 names have been linked with the WBA job in recent days. I've said previously I would go for Dean Smith as he knows the championship, worked in Director of football/head coach structure currently as that the structure WBA have. you can discuss the merits of that structure but I don't see the point in that cos that is Their current structure. 

I agree WBA need an overhaul in the squad over the summer just like Stoke do. 

53 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

Millwall have proven that you can make good stab at the Championship if you can harness that momentum.

Longer term Preston and Brentford are there and there abouts each year on 10,000 crowds.

You make a great point about Millwall 

52 minutes ago, Butty said:

If you're starting Premier league games with Crouch and Diouf up top you're not winning many games. The core of that side is an aging one as well, interested too see how they get on with Lambert in the championship next season, that's if he keeps his job! 

very true. I think its very interesting reading the Butland slamming the recruitment policy at Stoke

[roversfan99]

14 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I have see an improvement in tactical and fitness. Performances have been better but results have follow. far too many mistakes being made. 

I would some fans don't agree and I've seen some fans agreeing with me tho. just like people did when they question Mowbray after 11 games. 

These 3 names have been linked with the WBA job in recent days. I've said previously I would go for Dean Smith as he knows the championship, worked in Director of football/head coach structure currently as that the structure WBA have. you can discuss the merits of that structure but I don't see the point in that cos that is Their current structure. 

I agree WBA need an overhaul in the squad over the summer just like Stoke do. 

You make a great point about Millwall 

very true. I think its very interesting reading the Butland slamming the recruitment policy at Stoke

Tactics?

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-relegation-paul-lambert-1539336

Some perceive 4-4-2 as an attacking formation simply by dint of having an extra striker on the pitch, but that means little if you remove a creative player to make way for them, which is what Paul Lambert did.

Stoke started the game with purpose and at a high tempo, but were hamstrung by a system that rendered them utterly predictable. With a right back again on the left wing, robbing the side of balance and width, Palace quickly sussed out that Stoke’s only options were the overburdened Xherdan Shaqiri on the right or the head of Peter Crouch, and Roy Hodgson moved to choke off both options.

There were alternatives open to Lambert. He could’ve played 4-2-3-1 and moved Shaqiri back into the number 10 role where he has more freedom. He could also have found room for Stephen Ireland, a rare creator, who once again didn’t so much as leave the bench with the team desperate for a goal.

Instead, Lambert embraced the old definition of insanity, doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. His negative approach to winnable games is not the only factor in Stoke’s demise, but it is a factor nonetheless. He is not the man to lead this team in the Championship. He has to go.

Im quite amazed that you are promoting alternatives to Moore getting the job on the back of 3 wins and 2 draws in 5 games, showing an instant impact after inheriting a far more sorry state, whereas Lambert unequivocally deserves to stay on the back of 1 win in 14.

[chaddyrovers]

32 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

Tactics?

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-relegation-paul-lambert-1539336

Some perceive 4-4-2 as an attacking formation simply by dint of having an extra striker on the pitch, but that means little if you remove a creative player to make way for them, which is what Paul Lambert did.

Stoke started the game with purpose and at a high tempo, but were hamstrung by a system that rendered them utterly predictable. With a right back again on the left wing, robbing the side of balance and width, Palace quickly sussed out that Stoke’s only options were the overburdened Xherdan Shaqiri on the right or the head of Peter Crouch, and Roy Hodgson moved to choke off both options.

There were alternatives open to Lambert. He could’ve played 4-2-3-1 and moved Shaqiri back into the number 10 role where he has more freedom. He could also have found room for Stephen Ireland, a rare creator, who once again didn’t so much as leave the bench with the team desperate for a goal.

Instead, Lambert embraced the old definition of insanity, doing the same thing repeatedly and expecting different results. His negative approach to winnable games is not the only factor in Stoke’s demise, but it is a factor nonetheless. He is not the man to lead this team in the Championship. He has to go.

Im quite amazed that you are promoting alternatives to Moore getting the job on the back of 3 wins and 2 draws in 5 games, showing an instant impact after inheriting a far more sorry state, whereas Lambert unequivocally deserves to stay on the back of 1 win in 14.

I wouldn't have played 4-4-2 against Palace like Lambert did but played 4-3-3 formation with Adam, Ndaiye and Allen in centre midfield and Crouch up front with Shaqiri and Sohbi wide. 

Ireland? 

If you read the Butland article and him slamming the club recruitment policy it tells what been Stoke problems for the past 18 months/2 years. some of the signings have been poor to say the least. 

Promoting alternatives? I said who has been linked to the WBA job in the past few days/weeks and that's is all. stop stirring the pot

I said Moore has done a good job so far and He deserve the job if we going off results. depends what the WBA board policies on recruiting a new head coach and what they are looking. That's said I got Moore at 10/1 and now he is 10/11 on now. Also have Johnson aswell at 8/1. Just like Ive got Hurst for the Ipswich job at 8/1 now he odds on for the job/or close too.  

[FGS5635]

Lambert is like a lot of others, had success at 1 club and is milking the managerial merry go round for a long as he can on the back of that 1 good job.

[roversfan99]

15 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I wouldn't have played 4-4-2 against Palace like Lambert did but played 4-3-3 formation with Adam, Ndaiye and Allen in centre midfield and Crouch up front with Shaqiri and Sohbi wide. 

Ireland? 

If you read the Butland article and him slamming the club recruitment policy it tells what been Stoke problems for the past 18 months/2 years. some of the signings have been poor to say the least. 

Promoting alternatives? I said who has been linked to the WBA job in the past few days/weeks and that's is all. stop stirring the pot

I said Moore has done a good job so far and He deserve the job if we going off results. depends what the WBA board policies on recruiting a new head coach and what they are looking. That's said I got Moore at 10/1 and now he is 10/11 on now. Also have Johnson aswell at 8/1. Just like Ive got Hurst for the Ipswich job at 8/1 now he odds on for the job/or close too.  

So you are saying that his tactics have impressed you, yet you would play a totally different formation?

Im not saying the recruitment has been good, but that then brings you back to another point weve previously discussed, that Hughes did a poor job towards the end at Stoke and thus was very lucky to instantly stumble into another Premier League job!

That said, id rather have Hughes over Lambert any day.

I also think that Lambert got his priorities all wrong in January, signing a left back and a holding midfielder, as touched on in a different thread, we can all say "the players werent available," as we all know Lambert isnt hard pushed to hide behind excuses, his CV is littered with him shirking responsibility.

You're straying away from the main lack of accountability that you are putting on Lambert for what is a horrendous run of results under his watch, dress it up how you want, give me all the reasons you want, all the excuses, but hes been lucky to get the job, as @FGS5635 mentions hes been living off one good job for far too long, and his record since is, no matter how you dress it up, terrible.

[chaddyrovers]

1 hour ago, roversfan99 said:

So you are saying that his tactics have impressed you, yet you would play a totally different formation?

Im not saying the recruitment has been good, but that then brings you back to another point weve previously discussed, that Hughes did a poor job towards the end at Stoke and thus was very lucky to instantly stumble into another Premier League job!

That said, id rather have Hughes over Lambert any day.

I also think that Lambert got his priorities all wrong in January, signing a left back and a holding midfielder, as touched on in a different thread, we can all say "the players werent available," as we all know Lambert isnt hard pushed to hide behind excuses, his CV is littered with him shirking responsibility.

You're straying away from the main lack of accountability that you are putting on Lambert for what is a horrendous run of results under his watch, dress it up how you want, give me all the reasons you want, all the excuses, but hes been lucky to get the job, 

I said Stoke are better tactical now then they were under Hughes so saying making things up again roversfan99(which you like doing). 

Hughes did a great job for the 1st 3 seasons but his 4 and 5 seasons were poor. 

he signed a left back cos they only 1 left back so what happens if Pieters got injury. Stoke needed a defensive midfield so I can see why he was signed. Lambert got his priorities all wrong? If I was there I would have wanted a complete overhaul and that it will happened in the summer. The entire squad is all wrong. 

all the excuses? These are my opinions from all the games Ive watched which you haven't which you admitted before and lets not forgot my opinion was back up by the Stoke Chairman and he told the reasons why Lambert is staying. 

[JacknOry]

You two really need to get a room 

[Rover_Shaun]

Tan Out !

 

[FGS5635]

1 hour ago, chaddyrovers said:

I said Stoke are better tactical now then they were under Hughes so saying making things up again roversfan99(which you like doing). 

Hughes did a great job for the 1st 3 seasons but his 4 and 5 seasons were poor. 

he signed a left back cos they only 1 left back so what happens if Pieters got injury. Stoke needed a defensive midfield so I can see why he was signed. Lambert got his priorities all wrong? If I was there I would have wanted a complete overhaul and that it will happened in the summer. The entire squad is all wrong. 

all the excuses? These are my opinions from all the games Ive watched which you haven't which you admitted before and lets not forgot my opinion was back up by the Stoke Chairman and he told the reasons why Lambert is staying. 

You say stoke are better tactically under lambert, yet they had a better points per game ratio under hughes than under lambert.

1 win in 14 is pretty bad tactics no matter how you dress it up

[perthblue02]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

You two really need to get a room 

Can just picture the argument over the room number, room 352 or room 442

[Stuart]

28 minutes ago, FGS5635 said:

You say stoke are better tactically under lambert, yet they had a better points per game ratio under hughes than under lambert.

1 win in 14 is pretty bad tactics no matter how you dress it up

How many of the current players are Lambert’s?

(I don’t know by the way, genuine question).

[chaddyrovers]

Just now, Stuart said:

How many of the current players are Lambert’s?

(I don’t know by the way, genuine question).

2 Stuart. 

[FGS5635]

8 minutes ago, Stuart said:

How many of the current players are Lambert’s?

(I don’t know by the way, genuine question).

Not sure tbh, but if chaddy says 2 I don't doubt him. There are some really poor sides in that premier league. To muster 1 win in 14 with anybodys players is pretty poor imo

[chaddyrovers]

Stoke local paper why Lambert should be backed

https://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/stoke-city-paul-lambert-relegation-1540440

14 games before Lambert appointment, 31 goals concended since his appointment only 17 goals concended. So points to him sorting the defence out.

From the article

Those were the depths to which Stoke had sunk when Lambert received his hospital pass in January, too late to bring in his own signings, effectively consigning him to crisis management.

What Lambert has achieved is to root out the problem players helping to bring the team down and restore a resilience, a genuine spirit, which perhaps reached its zenith at Anfield nine days ago.

Where Lambert has unequivocally failed is to sharpen Stoke’s woefully blunt cutting edge in the final third.

But that failure is not entirely his, surely, after having his hands tied by Jese’s disgraceful absence, Saido Berahino’s inexcusable lack of professionalism and Mame Diouf’s honest failings in front of goal.

The paucity of Stoke’s attacking reserves was highlighted all too starkly against Crystal Palace on Saturday when he summoned Tyrese Campbell from the bench and basically asked a raw 18 year-old to save Stoke City Football Club from relegation.

Lambert deserves a second crack, surely, because he will hopefully kick off next season with at least half-a-dozen of his own players ready for frontline action, armed with the ability the current squad lacks and fortifying the character he has rediscovered during his four months at the bet365.

His proactive approach to signings will also minimise the failings of the club’s current process with a sit-at-home manager like Hughes around.

Edited May 7, 2018 by chaddyrovers