Matchday Programme

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, HowieFive0 said:

I wouldnt think they make anything on the actual sale of the programmes but will make money on the adverts that are placed in it.

In the Championship we only produced 3000 programmes per match. Will be even less now.

When I was working I dealt with a few different printers for labels and forms and the biggest cost was in setting the printing presses up. I always got a better price for buying larger quantities i.e. £100 for 1000 and £50 for every 1000 after that. I would expect the Rovers programmes to be the same otherwise somebody isn't doing their job properly.

[HowieFive0]

50 minutes ago, arbitro said:

When I was working I dealt with a few different printers for labels and forms and the biggest cost was in setting the printing presses up. I always got a better price for buying larger quantities i.e. £100 for 1000 and £50 for every 1000 after that. I would expect the Rovers programmes to be the same otherwise somebody isn't doing their job properly.

The biggest cost is the price of paper.Printing presses are ready to rock n roll whatever the job put on them.

[J*B]

5 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Not everybody uses apps J*B.  I believe some clubs do offer it as an app as well as a paper copy for the 'traditionalists' - a polite term for old gits like me. Ultimately, the product is garbage no matter how it is delivered.

I do realise that, but an app would offer much more interactive reading at a fraction of the price. Its the way the world is going and unfortunately is a case of get on board or stay at the station. Eventually it will happen and I see no reason why it shouldn't happen now. A subscription service at say £1 per home game for all programmes or £2.50 one off download - brilliant, read it on the way in, pre match, half time, full time, whenever you want. It would also reduce the pressure on the writer as you could include content e.g. interviews, training ground footage. Its really simple stuff, but unfortunately as a club we seem to be happy to be left behind. See 'Radio Rovers' which could have been retained for hardly any cost and made accessible via an App also. Make it a subscription service and start bringing money in for once. 

[JHRover]

32 minutes ago, J*B said:

I do realise that, but an app would offer much more interactive reading at a fraction of the price. Its the way the world is going and unfortunately is a case of get on board or stay at the station. Eventually it will happen and I see no reason why it shouldn't happen now. A subscription service at say £1 per home game for all programmes or £2.50 one off download - brilliant, read it on the way in, pre match, half time, full time, whenever you want. It would also reduce the pressure on the writer as you could include content e.g. interviews, training ground footage. Its really simple stuff, but unfortunately as a club we seem to be happy to be left behind. See 'Radio Rovers' which could have been retained for hardly any cost and made accessible via an App also. Make it a subscription service and start bringing money in for once. 

Whether to offer an interactive service is another issue. To begin with we need to get our house in order and offer a programme that is worth buying/reading. The current 'effort' is the culmination of years of a couldn't care less attitude whereby even the basic things of matchday such as the programme and entertainment are falling well short of what should be expected.

Until there is acceptance at management level that the existing programme and content is frankly an embarrassment for a club of this size then efforts to transfer it to digital format will be a waste. Nobody bar those who collect or have a habit of buying programmes will part with £3 every game to read that rubbish.

I understand that these days of internet, twitter etc. that a matchday programme no longer offers the breaking news and inside track on club activity as it might have done 20 years ago but it doesn't excuse a complete lack of effort or imagination. I suspect the individual who has been handed this responsibility isn't really up to the job but like with other things at the club its a make do and mend patch-up job rather than going out and finding someone to do the job who will actually be good at it.

I've always seen the matchday programme as an opportunity to showcase the club. It is the one thing away supporters will buy and take home with them to read through and learn about this club. I therefore would like to see a professional effort where supporters of other clubs are impressed with the standards we offer. There are clubs I have visited over the years and I buy their programmes and some are packed from front to back with interesting information contained in a smart, professional design. At least we've moved on from the cartoon days where the programme looked like a 'Match' magazine but the content has dropped instead. Visiting supporters will get arguably the worst value for money product in the league, vastly inferior to those seen at most League Two clubs. As our customer base is multiple times larger than clubs in this league I refuse to accept that it cannot be done if the club want it to.

It also irritates me when I see our honours as 1x Premier League title and 2x First Division title. It should be 3x Premier League/First Division.

Edited September 18, 2017 by JHRover

[J*B]

1 minute ago, meadows said:

You can do all these things and retain a fine, award-winning programme. There's a great example 15 miles up the M65 at Burnley. 

 

You can't do the interactive content e.g. visual interviews, training ground footage, simulations of tactics, replays of previous games, old footage in any programme at all. It has to be interactive and used alongside a phone. People read less and less, its the wrong way to go.

Blackpool have just released a new programme which uses QR codes to bring up footage but that relies on immediate internet signal, something that isn't always accessible at Ewood. To get around this you release it in a similar way as a Podcast, downloading the programme every Saturday morning whilst connected to WiFi.

I would bet, with any sort of decent technical nouse; The total amount of programmes sold would grow, the production costs would be lower and the profit would be higher.

[J*B]

1 minute ago, JHRover said:

Whether to offer an interactive service is another issue. To begin with we need to get our house in order and offer a programme that is worth buying/reading. The current 'effort' is the culmination of years of a couldn't care less attitude whereby even the basic things of matchday such as the programme and entertainment are falling well short of what should be expected.

Until there is acceptance at management level that the existing programme and content is frankly an embarrassment for a club of this size then efforts to transfer it to digital format will be a waste. Nobody bar those who collect or have a habit of buying programmes will part with £3 every game to read that rubbish.

I understand that these days of internet, twitter etc. that a matchday programme no longer offers the breaking news and inside track on club activity as it might have done 20 years ago but it doesn't excuse a complete lack of effort or imagination. I suspect the individual who has been handed this responsibility isn't really up to the job but like with other things at the club its a make do and mend patch-up job rather than going out and finding someone to do the job who will actually be good at it.

I've always seen the matchday programme as an opportunity to showcase the club. It is the one thing away supporters will buy and take home with them to read through and learn about this club. I therefore would like to see a professional effort where supporters of other clubs are impressed with the standards we offer. There are clubs I have visited over the years and I buy their programmes and some are packed from front to back with interesting information contained in a smart, professional design. At least we've moved on from the cartoon days where the programme looked like a 'Match' magazine but the content has dropped instead. Visiting supporters will get arguably the worst value for money product in the league, vastly inferior to those seen at most League Two clubs. As our customer base is multiple times larger than clubs in this league I refuse to accept that it cannot be done if the club want it to.

It also irritates me when I see our honours as 1x Premier League title and 2x First Division title. It should be 3x Premier League/First Division.

I disagree with 'couldn't care less attitude' as I know its not the case, I know the marketing people at Ewood and know they'd love to create a brilliant programme, but budget cuts are all over the place and things like programmes are first to go, especially when readership is so low. It wouldn't surprise me if for your average league game the programmes actually make a loss, so of course its going to get cuts - which is in turn going to reduce the quality (whether thats physically or in content). 

All it takes is the club to hire someone (that costs) or trust the existing marketing team to create something different and modern. Theres money to be made for anyone who can execute a brilliantly interactive digital download programme... or should I say convince Pasha that its worth doing. 

[JHRover]

7 minutes ago, J*B said:

I disagree with 'couldn't care less attitude' as I know its not the case, I know the marketing people at Ewood and know they'd love to create a brilliant programme, but budget cuts are all over the place and things like programmes are first to go, especially when readership is so low. It wouldn't surprise me if for your average league game the programmes actually make a loss, so of course its going to get cuts - which is in turn going to reduce the quality (whether thats physically or in content). 

All it takes is the club to hire someone (that costs) or trust the existing marketing team to create something different and modern. Theres money to be made for anyone who can execute a brilliantly interactive digital download programme... or should I say convince Pasha that its worth doing. 

My point is how/why are budget cuts affecting production of a quality programme when Rochdale etc. are able to do it perfectly well on much lower revenues? Each programme sold must make the club some money, so surely it is in the club's interest to sell more by offering a better product?

If our programme is a loss maker then is it the case that all league club programmes are a loss maker? If not then what are they doing differently to us?

All it takes is to pay someone who is retired/semi retired with an interest in Rovers/football who can spend the fortnight between games compiling some interesting facts and typing up some interviews, ringing opposition fans for their views etc. Everyone else manages it apart from the lazy club who treat such things as an irritant. The 'reports' on recent games are a joke. I could do better over my lunch break.

Edited September 18, 2017 by JHRover

[Parsonblue]

1 hour ago, J*B said:

I do realise that, but an app would offer much more interactive reading at a fraction of the price. Its the way the world is going and unfortunately is a case of get on board or stay at the station. Eventually it will happen and I see no reason why it shouldn't happen now. A subscription service at say £1 per home game for all programmes or £2.50 one off download - brilliant, read it on the way in, pre match, half time, full time, whenever you want. It would also reduce the pressure on the writer as you could include content e.g. interviews, training ground footage. Its really simple stuff, but unfortunately as a club we seem to be happy to be left behind. See 'Radio Rovers' which could have been retained for hardly any cost and made accessible via an App also. Make it a subscription service and start bringing money in for once. 

Interviews and training ground footage are already available via ifollow which we already pay for.  There are many folk who buy the programme but don't use apps and so you would cut off a large section of your prospective buyers.  Whilst some clubs offer a choice, no club has done away with their paper programme so clearly there is a demand for a decent product.  Like Jim, I have a couple of Kindles which are now unused in the garage as nothing beats reading an actual book.

[J*B]

20 minutes ago, meadows said:

A bit like the old "vinyl is dead" argument.  

Try getting a download signed by two old guys 50 years after they played in the cup final  or pulling a download from an old box and instantly being transported back to 1969 or 1987 by the smell & feel of it

 

I reckon for every signature a player must do.. 10(?) selfies? I understand there is a generation that wants vinyl and books but the reality is in 10 years they'll all be non existent, IMO, because time moves on. As will autographs. 

 

12 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

Interviews and training ground footage are already available via ifollow which we already pay for.  There are many folk who buy the programme but don't use apps and so you would cut off a large section of your prospective buyers.  Whilst some clubs offer a choice, no club has done away with their paper programme so clearly there is a demand for a decent product.  Like Jim, I have a couple of Kindles which are now unused in the garage as nothing beats reading an actual book.

I appreciate theres people that buy the programme and don't use apps. What i'm trying to explain is that in the very close future, unfortunately, you won't have any other option but to use apps - even if you preferred the paper copy. 

Edited September 18, 2017 by J*B

[Parsonblue]

Just now, J*B said:

I reckon for every signature a player must do.. 10(?) selfies? I understand there is a generation that wants vinyl and books but the reality is in 10 years they'll all be non existent, IMO, because time moves on.

 

I appreciate theres people that buy the programme and don't use apps. What i'm trying to explain is that in the very close future, unfortunately, you won't have any other option but to use apps - even if you preferred the paper copy. 

People were saying something similar in the 1990's when computers were being poured out in huge numbers in schools.  We were told that within a decade nobody would be reading an actual book.  Last time I looked Waterstones seemed to have reduced the area given over to electronic books and was doing a thriving business in the old fashioned, proper books.  I know you are right in the long run but I suspect it will be another generation before the change is complete.  At the moment ifollow would seem to be the platform for the type of content material that you describe - it has the interviews, training ground stuff and match highlights.

[Mattyblue]

Technology isn't devouring everything equally, so how soon is in the 'very close future'?

Apps are seeing off banks from the high street, but physical book sales are booming again. I noticed on my holidays this year just how few kindles were being used - they were everywhere 5 years ago.

 

[Parsonblue]

I must admit I refuse to use the self-service tills in shops or machines in banks.  I want some human interaction in whatever transaction I'm doing.  As Meadows so eloquently put it above - machines cannot replace everything or replace human interaction.  However, with regard to the programme an app isn't going to improve the quality of the content - that comes down to individuals wanting to produce a quality product which seems absent at Ewood but not at the likes of Rochdale or Scunthorpe.  The last Bury programme I looked at read like a small novel such was the depth of the content. 

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I got a programme for my grandson at Rochdale. I only had flick through it at half time but I thought it was absolutely excellent. Somebody had gone to a lot of trouble to produce that.

[mhead]

The Rovers Programme is no longer bought by those opposed to the Owners, so like the atmosphere quality has steadily declined.

Maybe 4000holes should have a monthly Journal and include satirical pieces on games and encouraging items on Under 23s and CheckaTrade Cup.

[Dreams of 1995]

21 hours ago, meadows said:

Agree. The very thought of a thousand people walking along or sitting staring at a "programme app" dissecting tactics (Who the hell needs that?) is a slightly disturbing  dystopian vision 

Part of what I enjoy is the human contact of walking into the shop every home game getting my programme from Barbara & Jim in the office and saying hi. Buying my Rovers Return ticket from the same friendly bloke. Waiting in reception with Parson or whoever for a teamsheet and saying hello to the girls behind the counter.

I can probably get every single last item of Info and statistic in the Sky Sports Yearbook from my phone but I don't want to, I want the physical thing to cherish, save and collect. I want it to pick up at the side of my PC if I'm writing a piece and need a stat even though I can get the same info flicking between screens 

You can get the time off your phone but it hasn't stopped people buying watches and clicks or stopped them looking at them 

People like stuff, things, mementoes, that's why they get prints of their selfies & that's why they'll far easier get them out in an an album or box in 25 years time rather than fart about on iCloud or old SIM cards to look at them

 

  

1. To you. Not to the younger generation of football fans it's not. Children brought up in the digital age yearn for interaction like this. All of my nephews are the same - they follow every player on twitter; they sit for hours on FIFA and the older few sit for hours on football manager. Take a look at the rise in debate shows surrounding football, whether that's Carra and Neville on Monday nights or the later shows on Sky Sports. It's an arrogant, rather pretentious, view that you'd consider something like this "disturbing". I'm sure half of those youngsters wouldn't consider trawling through pages of who sponsors what match ball, or chronologically filing old programs entertaining. They have all of that at their finger tips and can access it in a much more efficient way than you could, despite your overwhelming ability to make yourself sound like the fount of all knowledge

2. Again, people like you. My nephew has been to countless gigs and whenever I see him he has albums upon albums all digitally stored - ordered by date and event name that he can easily access with a simply ctrl + F and a keyword. What would have probably took 10 minutes to find the photo album, a few minutes finding which album had which photos, now takes him seconds to open the cloud, find the album and pass over to me to scroll through in high definition.

You don't even realise how awfully pretentious you sound. Ridiculing the way in which younger generations prefer to interact with their clubs/heroes. We are all happy that you get such joyful nostalgia when you smell the 1967 programme from a Tuesday night game vs Accy. However that shouldn't be a reason to not attempt to try and digitalise something in order to appeal to the younger generation; especially when that younger generation is being driven away from clubs like us to the bigger clubs which, coincidentally, engage with fans on social media much more than we do.

You can still get a photo of your hero signed if you wish - so why would a digital program with interactive features be such a 'disturbing' thing for you? Because it appeals to somebody else and not yourself? How disturbing that others may think or act in a different way to our Blue Eyed Boy.

[Parsonblue]

None of the above alters the fact that the content is appalling no matter how it is delivered.  I think you'll find that any number of people agree with what Meadows is saying.  Ultimately, there is no reason why the club can't deliver both methods - some clubs do although no club has done away with the 'traditional' programme and obviously there is a reason for that - they are still popular.  The gripe with the Rovers programme is the poor content and quality.

[Dreams of 1995]

2 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

None of the above alters the fact that the content is appalling no matter how it is delivered.  I think you'll find that any number of people agree with what Meadows is saying.  Ultimately, there is no reason why the club can't deliver both methods - some clubs do although no club has done away with the 'traditional' programme and obviously there is a reason for that - they are still popular.  The gripe with the Rovers programme is the poor content and quality.

I'm not in disagreement with you about that. The content is shocking and has been for some time. Ultimately that needs to change - both in paperback traditional match day programs and the online content. I took umbrage with how instantly dismissed it was by meadows because he disagreed with it - it's a recurring theme in his content that anything he disagrees with is talked down on with disdain, whether it be disturbing, performed by the feeble-minded, joyless wasp suckers or other perverse adjective he throws in to his pretentious little rants.

It further alienates younger supporters if we refuse to acknowledge there needs to be an interactive, social-media friendly way in which we deliver match day programmes simply because he likes the smell of a piece of paper from the 60s. I just wanted to highlight how silly his points were - the fact he prefers, and finds easier, the old ways doesn't mean the younger generation will.

Just now, meadows said:

I'm not oblivious to the likes and dislikes of young football fans Dreams I have 2 myself age 13 and 23 living at home. 

Then surely you have seen yourself the benefits of the digital age - that children brought up in this digital age can utilise electronic devices far easier than those born before it ever will. An online match day program would be perfect for people of those age, and I can almost guarantee they wouldn't find people reading programs on their phones 'disturbing' in the slightest.

 

[mhead]

I would like a team-sheet for the Checkatrade, even a one pager.

Is that dystopian....

[K-Hod]

Technology doesn't care about what used to be better, it usually advances for the better to make things easier for us. Whether people prefer the physical version or not matters little, it will be obsolete before long. 

[K-Hod]

Yeah, but how many fans do Man United have??

[Parsonblue]

2 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Technology doesn't care about what used to be better, it usually advances for the better to make things easier for us. Whether people prefer the physical version or not matters little, it will be obsolete before long. 

Interesting point K-Hod.  The doc gave me a prescription today but instead of the paper version he sent it electronically straight to my chemist.  I said to him that it seemed like a very efficient service.  "Don't bet on it" was the reply.   Sure enough, I went to the chemist and when I asked for the prescription I was told to come back tomorrow - the computer was down.  So much for technology!

[Parsonblue]

Just now, K-Hod said:

Yeah, but how many fans do Man United have??

Many of the programmes that United produce are sold straight to dealers all around the country who then sell to avid programme collectors.  There is still a huge demand for the 'traditional' programme and, of course, vintage programmes - pre-1950 - can fetch hundreds of pounds and in some cases thousands.  Rovers programmes from  the forties often sell for a few hundred quid each.  Somehow can't see anyone paying that for an app.

[J*B]

1 hour ago, meadows said:

If any of you can recommend me a brand of plasters which actually stick since manufacturing methods have gotten so great I'd be pleased to hear about it!!

It doesn't matter, people keep buying them and they're cheaper to produce now. 

With regards to Parsons point about the content being the same whether it's print or digital, this is entirely the point! The content wouldn't be at all the same because it would reduce the need for journalistic input, just fill it with video, interviews and interactive content. 'Pick your starting 11' with live graphics showing the team which the majority of fans are picking, message from the manager, behind the scenes at brockhall - none of this brilliantly interactive content is possible with words and still images, yet all really basic stuff for an app based programme.

I think myself, Dreams and K-Hod will have to respectfully disagree with yourself and Parson on this one - but it will be interesting to see how it pans out. 

[Parsonblue]

54 minutes ago, J*B said:

It doesn't matter, people keep buying them and they're cheaper to produce now. 

With regards to Parsons point about the content being the same whether it's print or digital, this is entirely the point! The content wouldn't be at all the same because it would reduce the need for journalistic input, just fill it with video, interviews and interactive content. 'Pick your starting 11' with live graphics showing the team which the majority of fans are picking, message from the manager, behind the scenes at brockhall - none of this brilliantly interactive content is possible with words and still images, yet all really basic stuff for an app based programme.

I think myself, Dreams and K-Hod will have to respectfully disagree with yourself and Parson on this one - but it will be interesting to see how it pans out. 

But they already do that with ifollow J*B.  That is filled with video content at £45 for a season.

[JHRover]

At the end of the day the current product is abysmal. I believe that is because Rovers have chosen to neglect this particular area of the operation and prefer to churn out a programme as cheaply and quickly as possible with scant regard for the quality of the product.

We can debate all day whether the club should move towards a digital future. I believe in a mid=way point whereby a quality programme is produced and sold in paper form as it always has been but a scanned version is available to download and save to your computer if you prefer. I could scan all the programmes so far into the scanner at work in 30 minutes and email it out as an attachment to a mailing list if people want it that way. Its not difficult if there's the will to do it.

Every week clubs up and down the country prove that it is perfectly viable to produce a comprehensive, quality matchday programme and charge £3 for it and can make it work. The only reason Rovers don't is because they can't be bothered. 

Anyone spot a pattern emerging here? That's right, we've only one director, he's got enough on his plate to worry about a programme that he probably never reads, and so it falls between the cracks whilst the show rolls on with the minimum done to produce one. Same applies to the matchday 'entertainment' with the same old music played over and over again at a volume so low I struggle to hear what it actually is. It hardly lends itself to building up an atmosphere pre kick off. Some poor soul not able to do the job has probably had the programme job thrown upon him a few weeks before the season began because they suddenly realised nobody else was around to do it. 

Shoddy operation. Normally a commercial or communications director would hold such responsibility and employ/delegate the programme job to someone capable with requirements attached as to content and quality. This being the same club that pleads poverty yet treats a potential income stream with such disdain!