[Archived] Rovers v Burnley

[Mercer]

Just now, Sparks Rover said:

Really? What impressed you about his performance? , I watch him and it gives me hope that my lad can still make a living in the game.  Sorry mate, he is a shocking player.

Spot on.  I've seen Sunday league players at Pleasington look more likely.  He was anonymous and abysmal and Allonson wasn't too far behind.  Shocking signings.

[Speedie Dived]

Nothing unexpected last night, we are a bad football side, they are a good one and Mowbray totally got that wrong.

The most disappointing aspect was the idiots that ran on and attacked their players. We laughed for years how that scrote ran on and looked up to Nelson and Reid, we are now on their level.

The other aspect to consider, our own players will have wanted to defend the Burnley lads, and more or less kill any competitive edge. Well done lads, made us all look pathetic.

[Dreams of 1995]

For me yesterday was an even bigger smack in the teeth because of the opponent we were facing. Had we crashed out of the mickey mouse cup in round 2 against a Premier league side other than the unwashed I wouldn't have even blinked. I couldn't care less about the trophy. However, this was more than that. This was a game against our fierce rivals. This is a game that every player, manager & coach of either club should be looking forward too and aiming to win at all costs. Tony Mowbray didn't do that and, for me, it is a huge roll of the dice. If he fails to get a result against MK Dons after resting our first team players then serious questions should be asked over his judgement.

Let me be frank here, I am not in any way saying we should, or could, have gone out there with a first 11 and beat Burnley. They are a Premier league team, although they really aren't that good at all. Though what they were is well drilled and disciplined - something I couldn't say for ourselves. The game plan of pumping it to Gladwin didn't work. For me he was one of our worst players, along with Feeney, Whittingham and whoever that bloke from Leeds is. Gladwin failed to win any crucial headers, and when he did they didn't find a Rovers player or any meaningful place. Second to that the one time he broke and found himself 1 on 1 against a defender he took a U-turn, ran into a corner and back heeled it against him as if winning a throw in helped us. Very poor piece of play. He certainly isn't good enough.

Then we talk about our wingers. Chapman showed glimpses of quality, and indeed our best phases of play came from his direct running. He didn't show this often enough though and, for whatever reason, chose silly long diagonal balls instead. These improved when he had tenacious Conway running onto them. In the first half he was aiming for Liam Feeney or the ever disappointing Marcus Antonsonn and it was quite clear neither had the tenacity, willpower or skill to chase the ball and use it.

Liam Feeney had another shocker. One thing that has always impressed me about Feeney is his ability to cross. Other than that he is an average League 1/2 player on his best day. Yesterday he showed very little willingness. What I will say though is that TM clearly got his team to overload our left hand side and, subsequently, Feeney was largely invisible for the first 30-35 minutes. When he was brought off Conway provided far more than him and I felt vindicated in my harsh criticism of him at half time.

Whittingham was invisible. Nothing else needs to be said about him.

Williams is nothing short of a liability. He can't tackle, he gives the ball away, he panics in possession. There was more than one occasion where he ran the ball into a 50-50 and lost out. That shows me his legs aren't strong enough or he simply doesn't want it enough. He should have been flying into tackles and making the Prem boys know they were here to have a battle and not just walk out of any 50-50's with ease.

Everybody on these boards knows my opinion of Elliot Ward. For the second goal he was marking grass. Granted Gladwin let his player simply drift across him, pick the ball up and rifle it in all too easily. In fact, it was at that moment I decided if I was manager he'd never get another start, but you have to look at the experienced Elliot Ward to see that ball, close down the space and block off the opportunity. He did none of them - simply stood there, watched as the ball went in and then turned to Mulgrew shrugging. Quite what Charlie makes of this man I don't know but if I had the ability of CM and forced to play alongside this buffoon I'd be infuriated.

Now onto Anton-never. I say that because he never brought a ball down, never made a good pass, never won a header, never made a good first touch, never chased a ball meaningfully, never showed any passion and was never in the right position at the right time. In fact, I am pretty certain for our disallowed goal, it was him who scuffed the shot into Samuel's path. If that ball had fallen to any other player you'd have expected them to put their laces through it and hit the back of the net. Correct me I'm wrong on this.

When Conway, Bennett and Samuel were brought on the game changed. You could see we had something going forward. Samuel brought down the first long ball pumped to him, something that other lad couldn't do if he was still trying now. Having Bennett on the pitch seemed to unleash Chapman. I think a front three of Chapman, Conway, Bennett or Dack is the winning formula with either Graham or Samuel up top. Neither Gladwin, Feeney or Antonsonn would get a start under me again.

Overall Tony Mowbray has a lot to answer for. He put out a weak team when we needed some fight. He's let us down, he's let himself down and he's let the club down. Moreover, the players he chose let all of the above down and their manager. He gave them a chance and they showed neither the ability or the willpower to take it. They should be ashamed.

Thanks to David Raya and Mulgrew. Without you two lads the score could have gone into a cricket score. This team without Charlie Mulgrew is nothing short of abysmal. If Tony doesn't see this, notice our defensive frailties and make some additions then he's a fool.

A win against MK is the minimum we expect on Saturday. Anything less and you've dug your own grave; this will not be forgotten.

[gazsimm]

Men against boys and it won't change until the venkys clear off. It's going to get worse!!

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

For me yesterday was an even bigger smack in the teeth because of the opponent we were facing. Had we crashed out of the mickey mouse cup in round 2 against a Premier league side other than the unwashed I wouldn't have even blinked. I couldn't care less about the trophy. However, this was more than that. This was a game against our fierce rivals. This is a game that every player, manager & coach of either club should be looking forward too and aiming to win at all costs. Tony Mowbray didn't do that and, for me, it is a huge roll of the dice. If he fails to get a result against MK Dons after resting our first team players then serious questions should be asked over his judgement.

Let me be frank here, I am not in any way saying we should, or could, have gone out there with a first 11 and beat Burnley. They are a Premier league team, although they really aren't that good at all. Though what they were is well drilled and disciplined - something I couldn't say for ourselves. The game plan of pumping it to Gladwin didn't work. For me he was one of our worst players, along with Feeney, Whittingham and whoever that bloke from Leeds is. Gladwin failed to win any crucial headers, and when he did they didn't find a Rovers player or any meaningful place. Second to that the one time he broke and found himself 1 on 1 against a defender he took a U-turn, ran into a corner and back heeled it against him as if winning a throw in helped us. Very poor piece of play. He certainly isn't good enough.

Then we talk about our wingers. Chapman showed glimpses of quality, and indeed our best phases of play came from his direct running. He didn't show this often enough though and, for whatever reason, chose silly long diagonal balls instead. These improved when he had tenacious Conway running onto them. In the first half he was aiming for Liam Feeney or the ever disappointing Marcus Antonsonn and it was quite clear neither had the tenacity, willpower or skill to chase the ball and use it.

Liam Feeney had another shocker. One thing that has always impressed me about Feeney is his ability to cross. Other than that he is an average League 1/2 player on his best day. Yesterday he showed very little willingness. What I will say though is that TM clearly got his team to overload our left hand side and, subsequently, Feeney was largely invisible for the first 30-35 minutes. When he was brought off Conway provided far more than him and I felt vindicated in my harsh criticism of him at half time.

Whittingham was invisible. Nothing else needs to be said about him.

Williams is nothing short of a liability. He can't tackle, he gives the ball away, he panics in possession. There was more than one occasion where he ran the ball into a 50-50 and lost out. That shows me his legs aren't strong enough or he simply doesn't want it enough. He should have been flying into tackles and making the Prem boys know they were here to have a battle and not just walk out of any 50-50's with ease.

Everybody on these boards knows my opinion of Elliot Ward. For the second goal he was marking grass. Granted Gladwin let his player simply drift across him, pick the ball up and rifle it in all too easily. In fact, it was at that moment I decided if I was manager he'd never get another start, but you have to look at the experienced Elliot Ward to see that ball, close down the space and block off the opportunity. He did none of them - simply stood there, watched as the ball went in and then turned to Mulgrew shrugging. Quite what Charlie makes of this man I don't know but if I had the ability of CM and forced to play alongside this buffoon I'd be infuriated.

Now onto Anton-never. I say that because he never brought a ball down, never made a good pass, never won a header, never made a good first touch, never chased a ball meaningfully, never showed any passion and was never in the right position at the right time. In fact, I am pretty certain for our disallowed goal, it was him who scuffed the shot into Samuel's path. If that ball had fallen to any other player you'd have expected them to put their laces through it and hit the back of the net. Correct me I'm wrong on this.

When Conway, Bennett and Samuel were brought on the game changed. You could see we had something going forward. Samuel brought down the first long ball pumped to him, something that other lad couldn't do if he was still trying now. Having Bennett on the pitch seemed to unleash Chapman. I think a front three of Chapman, Conway, Bennett or Dack is the winning formula with either Graham or Samuel up top. Neither Gladwin, Feeney or Antonsonn would get a start under me again.

Overall Tony Mowbray has a lot to answer for. He put out a weak team when we needed some fight. He's let us down, he's let himself down and he's let the club down. Moreover, the players he chose let all of the above down and their manager. He gave them a chance and they showed neither the ability or the willpower to take it. They should be ashamed.

Thanks to David Raya and Mulgrew. Without you two lads the score could have gone into a cricket score. This team without Charlie Mulgrew is nothing short of abysmal. If Tony doesn't see this, notice our defensive frailties and make some additions then he's a fool.

A win against MK is the minimum we expect on Saturday. Anything less and you've dug your own grave; this will not be forgotten.

You need to email that to Mowbray. Excellent post.

[chaddyrovers]

Dreams of 1985, it was Conway shot that hit Samuel on the way in to the goal. 

On Antonsson, he work hard, a few decent touches, he chase back to tackle a couple of times, playing long ball to him was pointless as he doesnt have the strength for that type of game. If we are sometimes going to play that sort of game bring in a target man like James Hanson. 

 

[Torgeir]

Harry Chapman deserves a start against MK Dons and Samuel is a certain starter as well. The pace of those two alone will cause problems to any team, that was evident last night. In Smallwood, Conway and Bennett we have hard working players, but our defense is worrying - we're crying out for more options there.

[RV Blue]

After the team he picked last night, the MK Dons game now has to be win or get sacked doesn't it? Mowbray has put his Rovers career on the line as far as I'm concerned. Win it and we might be able to forgive him for picking that side last night, lose and what he did is unforgivable.

[Torgeir]

Just now, RV Blue said:

After the team he picked last night, the MK Dons game now has to be win or get sacked doesn't it? Mowbray has put his Rovers career on the line as far as I'm concerned. Win it and we might be able to forgive him for picking that side last night, lose and what he did is unforgivable.

We're two divisions apart and played in a cup that we wouldn't have a cat's chance in hell of winning that competition anyway. I think it was good to give our second striker (as it stands, Graham has looked grossly out of sorts) a run-out, and Chapman and Gladwin as well. Chapman proved he should get more gametime, Gladwin underlined that he should be warming the bench a while longer.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

9 hours ago, blackburnforever said:

second half not that much in it

Really? Burnley were playing at an absolute canter second half...and came a lot closer to scoring yet how many shots did we have?

I was at Bradford and we played ok.  The only players we have that makes one up top work are Samuel and Dack.  If neither start, you have to go with 2 up.  

Last night had no where near the committment of the Bradford game.  

From what I have seen, the two players who are pivotal to our season are Evans and Dack. 

We need to address the LB position, CB position and another CM or give some of the kids game time.  We also need to ship the Swedish lad back to Leeds and try for another striker.

[Gav]

16 minutes ago, gazsimm said:

Men against boys and it won't change until the venkys clear off. It's going to get worse!!

Absolutely

It seems that the wider fan base are finally starting to realise that we're actually a very poor 3rd division outfit with very poor players and an average manager.

That said posters on here seem shocked at last nights display, shocked at the performance, shocked at the lack of fight? you all need to wake up and accept whats gone on here, changing managers and players doesn't work when the owners are a set of ****s and as Gaz rightly points out above this doesn't get any better until the rats sod off.

 

[JHRover]

Just now, RV Blue said:

After the team he picked last night, the MK Dons game now has to be win or get sacked doesn't it?

With these owners I suspect the only way changes will occur to management are if people resign. Mowbray is an honourable man, so if the fans really get on his back then he will probably walk but that will only happen once promotion has disappeared.

As I said at the start of the season there really can't be any excuses for Mowbray. He's had everything his way this summer and whilst the villains remain (Venkys, Pasha, Cheston) there can't really be any excuse for the bizarre tactics, selections and performances we've witnessed so far this season.

He needs to up his game and quickly because we're looking short at present.

 

[RV Blue]

Just now, Torgeir said:

We're two divisions apart and played in a cup that we wouldn't have a cat's chance in hell of winning that competition anyway. I think it was good to give our second striker (as it stands, Graham has looked grossly out of sorts) a run-out, and Chapman and Gladwin as well. Chapman proved he should get more gametime, Gladwin underlined that he should be warming the bench a while longer.

The team he picked was never capable of even challenging Burnley. Gladwin and Whittingham are both pansies who are in no way suited to a scrap. Antonsson never got a sniff against two 6ft4 centre halves. He picked a poor team because he was more concerned with the MK Dons game, which is forgivable if we win it.

[Speedie's Gonna Get Ya]

44 minutes ago, Hasta said:

I keep reading "well we were playing Burnley". We don't keep passing the ball to their men, tonking it out of play and mis-controlling it so that it goes for a throw in because we are playing a Premier League team. We do that because the players simply aren't very good.

Starting off positive, we know that aside from the defence we can field a better team than that thankfully.

I like Samuel. 3 goals in 3 starts and last night he challenged and won for headers, the ball stuck a little, was direct and tried to bring other people into play.

Conway is one of the few people with a serious football brain we have. He knows when to turn round and play it back or when to keep trying to go forward. There is intention rather than aimlessness in his forward passing and he doest give the ball away as much as the rest of them.

Chris Wood's finishing was so bad it was funny.

Aside from that it was diabolical. Someone said the Doncaster game was worse. In that game we knocked the ball around, had possession but couldn't do anything with it. Then let them score with 3 mistakes. In this game we got destroyed all over the pitch and couldn't do many of the basics right.

Raya is never going to be a top class keeper. Good shot stopper but a little too small - and goals like those last night a decent keeper would have done better on. He's not awful but he's probably plying his trade at the right level.

Williams got player of the year last year didn't he. That says how bad we must have been.

Caddis just kept letting people run in behind. Smallwood started well but deteriorated second half. To be fair in the first half he probably tired himself out doing the work of others. 

Do you know Ben Gladwin is 25 years old and has only made 70 league start in his career? I think last night you saw why.

A lot of this season now rests on Samuel showing the promise he has done so far,  and Dack living up to the hype.

Are we in danger of doing the players a slight did-service; when you play against better and well organised teams (two leagues above) this places you under more pressure on the ball in general, speed of thought/reaction times that frankly the players aren't used to in the same way.

As others have said, we had L1 players playing PL players. If we'd witnessed a complete lack of commitment from them I would have been disappointed and frustrated. Reality is I reckon most of us knew all of the above before the game and hoped we might cause an upset.

[arbitro]

9 minutes ago, Speedie's Gonna Get Ya said:

Are we in danger of doing the players a slight did-service; when you play against better and well organised teams (two leagues above) this places you under more pressure on the ball in general, speed of thought/reaction times that frankly the players aren't used to in the same way.

As others have said, we had L1 players playing PL players. If we'd witnessed a complete lack of commitment from them I would have been disappointed and frustrated. Reality is I reckon most of us knew all of the above before the game and hoped we might cause an upset.

But to give yourself the best chance of winning surely you have to play your strongest team. Accrington and Lincoln both did last season and we saw them win.

[RV Blue]

4 minutes ago, JHRover said:

With these owners I suspect the only way changes will occur to management are if people resign. Mowbray is an honourable man, so if the fans really get on his back then he will probably walk but that will only happen once promotion has disappeared.

As I said at the start of the season there really can't be any excuses for Mowbray. He's had everything his way this summer and whilst the villains remain (Venkys, Pasha, Cheston) there can't really be any excuse for the bizarre tactics, selections and performances we've witnessed so far this season.

He needs to up his game and quickly because we're looking short at present.

 

Agreed. He basically runs the club at the minute so he'll probably have to sack himself. He's not a w@nker like Coyle or Kean and won't hang on for dear life, but he'll only go once there is no chance of it working out, as his reputation will be absolutely shot if he fails here.

[Speedie Dived]

1 minute ago, Gav said:

Absolutely

It seems that the wider fan base are finally starting to realise that we're actually a very poor 3rd division outfit with very poor players and an average manager.

That said posters on here seem shocked at last nights display, shocked at the performance, shocked at the lack of fight? you all need to wake up and accept whats gone on here, changing managers and players doesn't work when the owners are a set of ****s and as Gaz rightly points out above this doesn't get any better until the rats sod off.

 

Sadly a lot dont and are still getting the "what did you expect last night" , "two divisions above" non sense.

Some on here would be cheer leading if we started the season in the conference.

[JBiz]

Imagine how embarrassing it must be to see your team play in a proper stadium but two leagues below...

Mark my words, give it 5 years and they'll be back on the bones of their arse complaining about how the directors sponged them!

Dyche can really polish a turd, but the minute he walks, the minute that lot sink like a stone. Remember lads - despite all our success, we never played them 2 divisions below us. 

[JBiz]

Oh and be glad we don't call premiership survival "success". They don't even know what a European trip feels like!

[FGS5635]

There is a lot of anger that just bubbles under the surface at rovers games these days and its understandable after everything the club has been through. But it doesnt take much for it to surface and the crowd and the players just crumble with it at the 1st sign of something bad. After quite a good start for the 1st 15mins burnley had their 1st few attacks after that and the moaning and groaning starts and you can feel it sink. Then you can see the players lose a bit of confidence and some go into their shell.

We wont get anywhere until this improves and ewood becomes a fortress somewhat, which brings a chicken and the egg scenario. Do the players need to play well to help the fans or do the fans need to improve to help the players. Its going to be a slow process really that requires us stacking good performances/results back to back to back in this league and improve the mood of the fans and the confidence of the players.

Last night was different, although a big ask against a team 2 div's above us now we had a chance to grab a big chunk of credit back with fans in 1 game. With a load of stay away fans returning it was a chance to entice some back and try and improve the genral mood and get some feel good factor back. With all that in mind, to not play your strongest side 4 games into the season is mind blowingly retarded. I just cant get my head round it. We aint a top 6 premier league side that knows they may reach the later stages of everything and play 60 games a season. We prob wont get past another round. Sadly this was our cup final and we didnt take it seriously.

In our financial situation the potential big draw in the next round is massive also. A trip to old trafford would net us more than we paid for Dack, which was huge money for us really.

Massive chance missed and a real lack of understanding of what this club needs. Tony is a good egg and I want him to suceed, but he got is so so wrong last night.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Fans shouldn't forget that their goals cost 23 million last night. Brady 13million and Cork 10 million 

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

7 hours ago, grizfoot said:

I honestly don't think it was down to a lack of commitment, just a lot of the players playing tonight simply not good enough in comparison to the level of the opposition. Found it a bit baffling Burnley took their foot off the gas in that second half when they could have really put us to the sword like West Ham did a few seasons back. 

Player watch: Raya, good shot-stopper needs to work on aspects of game. Whittingham, Gladwin and Antonsson all looked poor. Smallwood is a battler, Chapman and Samuel both lively. Feeney is still naff, Williams seems to be getting worse, Caddis is a trier but limited, Mulgrew is still a class above.

Going forward I feel like our full-back problem is such that if we can get away with playing three at the back, and having Evans & Smallwood shielding them. It may very well be the way forward. For me these are clearly the best eleven players we have at moment, although I wouldn't be too quick to write off Graham but it does seem like he's been frozen out at the moment.

--------------------- Raya -------------

--- Nyambe -- Lenihan --- Mulgrew

 --------Smallwood ---- Evans ----

Bennett --------------------------- Conway

 ---------- Dack -------- Chapman ----

----------------- Samuel -----------------

Pretty much agree there.  But I would rather stick with a back 4.  

                             Raya

Nyambe       Lenihan    Mulgrew   Doyle

                  Evans     Smallwood

    Bennett            Dack                Chapman

                             Samuel

That formation  could easily be changed to 4 4 2 with Graham coming on.   Perhaps start  Chapman in the Dack role and Conway out wide as an alternative.

To me, they are our strongest players.  Play them where they will be effective!

 

 

 

 

 

  

[Mike E]

Slept on it and I've decided that last night's result (while painful) was in reality just 'expected'.

Eg: If we'd lost 2-0 to Stoke or West Brom I'd feel ok.

It was a useful exercise, really, as it confirms who SHOULD start vs MK Dons. Unsure about injuries but if possible:

                            Raya

  Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Doyle

Bennett Smallwood Evans Chapman

                             Dack

                           Samuel

Great minds, WWWM!

[47er]

8 minutes ago, Biz said:

Imagine how embarrassing it must be to see your team play in a proper stadium but two leagues below...

Mark my words, give it 5 years and they'll be back on the bones of their arse complaining about how the directors sponged them!

Dyche can really polish a turd, but the minute he walks, the minute that lot sink like a stone. Remember lads - despite all our success, we never played them 2 divisions below us. 

How embarrassing is it to have a stadium like our's and be in the Third Division?

Preposterous to talk about THEIR potential problems.

WE are the ones with the negatives. While Burnley might be complaining about all sorts in five years time we might not even exist. Doesn't that occur to you?

Nothing that happens to Burnley in the future remotely compares to having Venkys as owners now.

[Gav]

18 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Fans shouldn't forget that their goals cost 23 million last night. Brady 13million and Cork 10 million 

It could be argued our lack of goals cost a whopping £150m!