[Archived] Rovers v Burnley

[Pedro]

35 minutes ago, longsiders1882 said:

Morning all.

One shining light for you must be Mulgrew - I though he was excellent in the second half (hard to see in the first half down the other end).

On the fans on the pitch - never been one to condemn a whole set of supporters because a few people can't handle their drink/drug combination and behave like d**ks. I don't know how you stop them - but a quicker reaction from the stewards and police next time would be nice.

Anyway enjoy the rest of your season, hope we don't get you in the FA Cup!

To be fair, ANY reaction from the stewards or police would've been nice. They were absolutely pathetic in that situation, purely focussed in having all of their numbers in the Darwen End/Riverside corner.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, MGPensioner said:

We are in a downward transition :-

because we are in a lower divison than last season

because our net trading is negative - less players than last season

because we have lower quality players than last season

because we have significantly less money (TV money being the big example)

because we have had to reduce our costs on both the playing and support staff parts of the business

because we still await the full effects of the KPMG report highlighting what will need to be done to cope with the above

because the Rao family and their merry hench men are still around.

Do we have lower quality players though? That is most definitely up for debate 

[K-Hod]

3 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

no I was talking to a friend about the shocking defending for Cork's goal

no goal post change. Mowbray's target is promotion.

I talking if we change manager and the new manager wants to change the current squad to his own type of squad

I agree with Antonsson point totally.

3 at the back? I don't dislike the formation but you want to play 3-5-2 formation then the squad need to set for that formation. it isn't. set up for 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 formations

don't agree with that Burnley are the worst PL team to come to Ewood Park in Years. that match day squad cost nearly 50 mil or so. Dyche has built a PL squad there that will stay up this season and been around 13th/14th in the league.

I want promotion this season so for me, the league is most important. But some of players performances yesterday were poor and simply not good enough and hardly forcing themselves into the 1st 11 either.

My first point was related to if we change manager after giving Mowbray a summer to bring in his own players then any new manager might want to change the playing squad to his own type of squad resulting in promotion not being achieved to next season.

the fanbase is there if we were winning more and playing good football then I'm sure they will be more fans in the ground. Fanbase is there just look at Liverpool and Man Utd cup game proves this

we didn't let 15 players go as 6 players were loan players. so hardly count tbh

 Mowbray has made 9 signings and some look good like Samuel, Smallwood, Dack but Gladwin, Caddis and Whittingham look of the pace.

Re the bit in bold, are you sure?? If they played games, of course they bloody well count!

[JHRover]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

no I was talking to a friend about the shocking defending for Cork's goal

no goal post change. Mowbray's target is promotion.

I talking if we change manager and the new manager wants to change the current squad to his own type of squad

I agree with Antonsson point totally.

3 at the back? I don't dislike the formation but you want to play 3-5-2 formation then the squad need to set for that formation. it isn't. set up for 4-4-2 or 4-2-3-1 formations

don't agree with that Burnley are the worst PL team to come to Ewood Park in Years. that match day squad cost nearly 50 mil or so. Dyche has built a PL squad there that will stay up this season and been around 13th/14th in the league.

I want promotion this season so for me, the league is most important. But some of players performances yesterday were poor and simply not good enough and hardly forcing themselves into the 1st 11 either.

My first point was related to if we change manager after giving Mowbray a summer to bring in his own players then any new manager might want to change the playing squad to his own type of squad resulting in promotion not being achieved to next season.

the fanbase is there if we were winning more and playing good football then I'm sure they will be more fans in the ground. Fanbase is there just look at Liverpool and Man Utd cup game proves this

we didn't let 15 players go as 6 players were loan players. so hardly count tbh

 Mowbray has made 9 signings and some look good like Samuel, Smallwood, Dack but Gladwin, Caddis and Whittingham look of the pace.

You can't not count loan departures but then count loan arrivals as new signings.

If only 9 departures were permanent players then only 7 of those who have come in count as new signings.

[Stuart]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

For me yesterday was an even bigger smack in the teeth because of the opponent we were facing. Had we crashed out of the mickey mouse cup in round 2 against a Premier league side other than the unwashed I wouldn't have even blinked. I couldn't care less about the trophy. However, this was more than that. This was a game against our fierce rivals. This is a game that every player, manager & coach of either club should be looking forward too and aiming to win at all costs. Tony Mowbray didn't do that and, for me, it is a huge roll of the dice. If he fails to get a result against MK Dons after resting our first team players then serious questions should be asked over his judgement.

Let me be frank here, I am not in any way saying we should, or could, have gone out there with a first 11 and beat Burnley. They are a Premier league team, although they really aren't that good at all. Though what they were is well drilled and disciplined - something I couldn't say for ourselves. The game plan of pumping it to Gladwin didn't work. For me he was one of our worst players, along with Feeney, Whittingham and whoever that bloke from Leeds is. Gladwin failed to win any crucial headers, and when he did they didn't find a Rovers player or any meaningful place. Second to that the one time he broke and found himself 1 on 1 against a defender he took a U-turn, ran into a corner and back heeled it against him as if winning a throw in helped us. Very poor piece of play. He certainly isn't good enough.

Then we talk about our wingers. Chapman showed glimpses of quality, and indeed our best phases of play came from his direct running. He didn't show this often enough though and, for whatever reason, chose silly long diagonal balls instead. These improved when he had tenacious Conway running onto them. In the first half he was aiming for Liam Feeney or the ever disappointing Marcus Antonsonn and it was quite clear neither had the tenacity, willpower or skill to chase the ball and use it.

Liam Feeney had another shocker. One thing that has always impressed me about Feeney is his ability to cross. Other than that he is an average League 1/2 player on his best day. Yesterday he showed very little willingness. What I will say though is that TM clearly got his team to overload our left hand side and, subsequently, Feeney was largely invisible for the first 30-35 minutes. When he was brought off Conway provided far more than him and I felt vindicated in my harsh criticism of him at half time.

Whittingham was invisible. Nothing else needs to be said about him.

Williams is nothing short of a liability. He can't tackle, he gives the ball away, he panics in possession. There was more than one occasion where he ran the ball into a 50-50 and lost out. That shows me his legs aren't strong enough or he simply doesn't want it enough. He should have been flying into tackles and making the Prem boys know they were here to have a battle and not just walk out of any 50-50's with ease.

Everybody on these boards knows my opinion of Elliot Ward. For the second goal he was marking grass. Granted Gladwin let his player simply drift across him, pick the ball up and rifle it in all too easily. In fact, it was at that moment I decided if I was manager he'd never get another start, but you have to look at the experienced Elliot Ward to see that ball, close down the space and block off the opportunity. He did none of them - simply stood there, watched as the ball went in and then turned to Mulgrew shrugging. Quite what Charlie makes of this man I don't know but if I had the ability of CM and forced to play alongside this buffoon I'd be infuriated.

Now onto Anton-never. I say that because he never brought a ball down, never made a good pass, never won a header, never made a good first touch, never chased a ball meaningfully, never showed any passion and was never in the right position at the right time. In fact, I am pretty certain for our disallowed goal, it was him who scuffed the shot into Samuel's path. If that ball had fallen to any other player you'd have expected them to put their laces through it and hit the back of the net. Correct me I'm wrong on this.

When Conway, Bennett and Samuel were brought on the game changed. You could see we had something going forward. Samuel brought down the first long ball pumped to him, something that other lad couldn't do if he was still trying now. Having Bennett on the pitch seemed to unleash Chapman. I think a front three of Chapman, Conway, Bennett or Dack is the winning formula with either Graham or Samuel up top. Neither Gladwin, Feeney or Antonsonn would get a start under me again.

Overall Tony Mowbray has a lot to answer for. He put out a weak team when we needed some fight. He's let us down, he's let himself down and he's let the club down. Moreover, the players he chose let all of the above down and their manager. He gave them a chance and they showed neither the ability or the willpower to take it. They should be ashamed.

Thanks to David Raya and Mulgrew. Without you two lads the score could have gone into a cricket score. This team without Charlie Mulgrew is nothing short of abysmal. If Tony doesn't see this, notice our defensive frailties and make some additions then he's a fool.

A win against MK is the minimum we expect on Saturday. Anything less and you've dug your own grave; this will not be forgotten.

Again, this is rating players' performances against opponents that they were not bought to compete against!

I'm as hurt as anyone to have to watch 'that lot' overtake us and look like staying there for years to come but I'm much more interested in how our players perform (and deliver) against League One opponents.

For me, Mowbray got it wrong because he neither picked a full strength team, nor did he blood the youngsters. He just went for a halfway house, re-shuffled, worst-of-both-worlds team, and made us look badly organised, and inferior in every way. He made it worse by bringing on substitutes that - if he really cared about the result - he should have started, or - if he didn't care - should have left out. Ok Doyle got a look in but what exactly do the youth have to do to be included? Chapman will now almost certainly block Tomlinson's progress and Antonsson will block Nuttall's. As we don't seem to like loaning out players (Wharton bring an exception but even he is well out of contention) we will no doubt be sat here in 18 months, 2 years time vilifying the next "greedy, mercenary, unambitious" young lad who won't sign a new contract.

An opportunity missed last night by Mowbray on many fronts but if he gets us to the play-offs I'll happily let him crow about he is the expert. Right now, 1 win in his last 13 League One matches, and bringing in loanees instead of blooding youth says otherwise.

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, AAK said:

In the Fa Cup game one of their lot squared up to Steven Reid.

A few years ago there one of their lot bolted almost the length of the pitch right down the middle unchallenged towards the Rovers end. Mind you he was stark naked, looked like a mutant and must've covered himself in oil judging by the wrestle it took to get him off.

Something always happens in and around these games and always has except ironically the FA cup replay at Ewood where everyone made their own way, tickets where 20 quid and the segregation was less meaning about 28k on.

What's that they say about the more you treat people like idiots the more likely they are to behave that way

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, K-Hod said:

Re the bit in bold, are you sure?? If they played games, of course they bloody well count!

But we didnt let them go, it cos the deal ended. Is the same thing?

 

[cn174]

21 minutes ago, Pedro said:

To be fair, ANY reaction from the stewards or police would've been nice. They were absolutely pathetic in that situation, purely focussed in having all of their numbers in the Darwen End/Riverside corner.

Good job the St John's Ambulance and the paramedics were a bit more alert! Only ones who decided to do something about it. 

[Parsonblue]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

Oh and be glad we don't call premiership survival "success". They don't even know what a European trip feels like!

In fairness Biz, Burnley were in playing European competitions about 30 years before we did.

[Peteb2014]

10 minutes ago, cn174 said:

Good job the St John's Ambulance and the paramedics were a bit more alert! Only ones who decided to do something about it. 

The clubs policy is that if somebody makes it on the pitch that the St Johns who act as stretcher bearers are the ones who are supposed to go on the pitch after them as they are wearing football boots so have better footing on the pitch than a steward wearing shoes never understood it myself surely as part of the role of being a steward is to deal with that sort of thing

[Husky]

37 minutes ago, Pedro said:

To be fair, ANY reaction from the stewards or police would've been nice. They were absolutely pathetic in that situation, purely focussed in having all of their numbers in the Darwen End/Riverside corner.

Money well spent.

Probably too busy on social media - as that's where policing seems to happen these days, nationwide.

[Manchester Blue]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Were you asleep or drunk ?

I didn't see it either I was watching the flares and stuff from the Darwen end, I'm genuinely not sure of the point you're making.  

[NinjaTattoo]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Fans shouldn't forget that their goals cost 23 million last night. Brady 13million and Cork 10 million 

I dont buy that argument one bit,  those 2 players will play the rest of the season and if they( the team ) stay up and do half decent will earn the club 90+ million its investing in long term.

Something at Rovers havent done since these chicken farmer crooks have done since 'buying us. I use that word loosely. 

The score result last night wasnt a shock at all at 5/4 they we a stone cold cert but its the manner we lost... ZERO SHOTS on target if a manager and players cant get motivated to play our arch enemy in our own backyard then its pathetic we've been light years away from the likes of Man Utd Chelsea City etc but all those teams in the past knew they had to dig deep and grind a result out  , last 7 yrs teams come here and win at a canter.

Its all been a steady decline for the last 7yrs and its not going to get any better till they ( crooks) have fled but last night was embarrassing.

If TM doesnt get his @#/? together before Dec I can see him leaving this circus either by sack or out of sheer frustration from the top to the bottom.

I know that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys but ffs id not pay anyone at the club in washers.

[Sparks Rover]

1 hour ago, islander200 said:

.Sticking with Antonsson up front on his own for 65 minutes was baffling,Mowbray watches this guy in training everyday yet chooses to play him up front on his own

I'd run rings around our defenders, so I can well.imagine Antonsson looks like Messi in training with no pressure 

[K-Hod]

40 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

But we didnt let them go, it cos the deal ended. Is the same thing?

 

They were at the club and now they aren't, so either way they needed to be replaced. Like the out of contract players.......

[Pedro]

31 minutes ago, Peteb2014 said:

The clubs policy is that if somebody makes it on the pitch that the St Johns who act as stretcher bearers are the ones who are supposed to go on the pitch after them as they are wearing football boots so have better footing on the pitch than a steward wearing shoes never understood it myself surely as part of the role of being a steward is to deal with that sort of thing

Wow, that's idiotic. One day someone is going to go on the pitch and stab an opposing player. They need taking down as soon as possible. I've heard the idiots from yesterday have both been charged. Something along the lines of One for assaulting a player and police officer, one a steward and both for unlawfully entering the field of play. For a moment of being a Billy big balls and having a cute little hug with each other, at least one will now get sent down, if they work possibly get fired for gross misconduct but luckily for them, they'll get banned for 5years and won't have to sit through any more of the Venky years...every cloud.

[Hasta]

4 hours ago, Speedie's Gonna Get Ya said:

Are we in danger of doing the players a slight did-service; when you play against better and well organised teams (two leagues above) this places you under more pressure on the ball in general, speed of thought/reaction times that frankly the players aren't used to in the same way.

As others have said, we had L1 players playing PL players. If we'd witnessed a complete lack of commitment from them I would have been disappointed and frustrated. Reality is I reckon most of us knew all of the above before the game and hoped we might cause an upset.

I get what you are saying, but we kept hoofing it out of play and mis-controlling it under no pressure. The players are simply poor.

That's not to take away from Burnley's quality as they did a very professional premier-league job on us. Just don't let their quality show up how technically poor and lacking in football intelligence the likes of Gladwin, Feeney and co are.  Does anybody STILL believe we have the best squad in league one?

 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

53 minutes ago, NinjaTattoo said:

I dont buy that argument one bit,  those 2 players will play the rest of the season and if they( the team ) stay up and do half decent will earn the club 90+ million its investing in long term.

Something at Rovers havent done since these chicken farmer crooks have done since 'buying us. I use that word loosely. 

The score result last night wasnt a shock at all at 5/4 they we a stone cold cert but its the manner we lost... ZERO SHOTS on target if a manager and players cant get motivated to play our arch enemy in our own backyard then its pathetic we've been light years away from the likes of Man Utd Chelsea City etc but all those teams in the past knew they had to dig deep and grind a result out  , last 7 yrs teams come here and win at a canter.

Its all been a steady decline for the last 7yrs and its not going to get any better till they ( crooks) have fled but last night was embarrassing.

If TM doesnt get his @#/? together before Dec I can see him leaving this circus either by sack or out of sheer frustration from the top to the bottom.

I know that if you pay peanuts you get monkeys but ffs id not pay anyone at the club in washers.

You don't buy the argument that them being able to sign 2 players for 23million doesn't give them an advantage? Am, ok. Teams and players can have all the passion in the world, but quality counts. Same as when we were top dogs and lording it over them 

How do you think Robbie Brady would get on in league 1?

[roverstdt]

I saw the game last night and I think there is a gulf between fans expectation and reality. What I witnessed last night was a hardworking Rovers team that were outthought, out played, and who were better organised. Is this suppose to be a surprise? No, not at all. Time have changed and Burnley have become a stable strong premier league club that people look up to, just like we were during our time in the PL. 

I am not angry at Mowbray either for fielding a weakened side against them. Were we ever going to the Cup? No, our priority has to, has to, has to be the league and that can only come by sacrificing a few matches here and there. Even the matches the mean the most to us such as Burnley. It was a good game for Raya who will build up his confidence with a few fine saves, same for Chapman and Smallwood. Now we move on to the weekend where we have the Franchise coming to us (A team i despise even more than Burnley having been raised in an AFC Wimbledon family). Now is the time to make it count. If we go away with a win it was a good gamble by Mowbray. If we lose or draw, there is only so long the honeymoon period will last. 

 

[Hasta]

3 minutes ago, Hasta said:

I get what you are saying, but we kept hoofing it out of play and mis-controlling it under no pressure. The players are simply poor.

That's not to take away from Burnley's quality as they did a very professional premier-league job on us. Just don't let their quality show up how technically poor and lacking in football intelligence the likes of Gladwin, Feeney and co are.  Does anybody STILL believe we have the best squad in league one?

 

 

Just to add, every loose ball seemed to go to, or was picked up by, a Burnley player. That's not luck. That's positioning and formation.

I used to comment on that every time we played Man Utd that it always seemed to break to them. They just read the game better.

 

[Hasta]

Just now, roverstdt said:

I saw the game last night and I think there is a gulf between fans expectation and reality. What I witnessed last night was a hardworking Rovers team that were outthought, out played, and who were better organised. Is this suppose to be a surprise? No, not at all. Time have changed and Burnley have become a stable strong premier league club that people look up to, just like we were during our time in the PL. 

 

Again, does the fact we kept miscontrolling balls under no pressure worry you? That it bounced off us and ran out of play or to one of their players?  Should we accept this because we were playing a Premier League team

Or does the fact we were playing long balls either out of play or directly to their players with no-one near them not worry you?

Surely we can 'expect' that the players can do the basics?

[JHRover]

One occasion in the 2nd half when one of our CBs played a predictable ball back to Raya. Raya then expected plenty of time to launch it forward but one of the dingles (can't remember which) decided he was going to bust a gut to chase the ball down and pressurise Raya. Lo and behold Raya panicked and ended up booting the ball into the dugout. All because of our obsession with sending it back to the keeper and even a dingle eventually worked out that it might be a good idea to chase those back-passes down and see if an error could be forced.

When was the last time anyone from Rovers was seen demonically chasing down a backpass/loose ball and forcing the opposition into an error/giving it away?

[davulsukur]

2 hours ago, rog of the rovers said:

The stewarding was very bad, the idiot had the freedom of the pitch for a good 30 seconds or so before anyone else ran on.

It sounds pedantic, but he could have been carrying a knife, a lifetime ban and heavy fine should be the least of his punishment.

 

As to the game, it unfortunately, played out as you'd expect.

A rebuilding, mid table, League One side were completely outclassed by a solid, well run, mid table Premier League side.

 

Lots of obvious negatives, but trying to look for some ''positives'' - Chapman looks like he has something to offer, Samuel put himself about nicely up top, looked more solid when Bennett and Conway came on, Mulgrew is a still with us, and clearly a good player for a League One team.

Move on.......Hopefully next time we meet, we'll be on an upward trajectory!

 

It's not pedantic, it's realistic.

Events that happen all the time show what lengths people will go to when they are driven by something or another.

Makes us look like what we are, amateurs at every single level.

[Peteb2014]

31 minutes ago, Pedro said:

Wow, that's idiotic. One day someone is going to go on the pitch and stab an opposing player. They need taking down as soon as possible. I've heard the idiots from yesterday have both been charged. Something along the lines of One for assaulting a player and police officer, one a steward and both for unlawfully entering the field of play. For a moment of being a Billy big balls and having a cute little hug with each other, at least one will now get sent down, if they work possibly get fired for gross misconduct but luckily for them, they'll get banned for 5years and won't have to sit through any more of the Venky years...every cloud.

The guy who "allegedly" attacked the players and hit the steward went on for a £50 bet as it is his 30th birthday.  Sorry mate you have just cost yourself a lot more than the £50 you have won

[RV Blue]

5 minutes ago, JHRover said:

One occasion in the 2nd half when one of our CBs played a predictable ball back to Raya. Raya then expected plenty of time to launch it forward but one of the dingles (can't remember which) decided he was going to bust a gut to chase the ball down and pressurise Raya. Lo and behold Raya panicked and ended up booting the ball into the dugout. All because of our obsession with sending it back to the keeper and even a dingle eventually worked out that it might be a good idea to chase those back-passes down and see if an error could be forced.

When was the last time anyone from Rovers was seen demonically chasing down a backpass/loose ball and forcing the opposition into an error/giving it away?

That wasn't Raya's fault, Ward's pass was completely under hit.