[Archived] Joe Nuttall

[roversfan99]

30 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

I wasnt there. Thats why I asked how he played. 

Ive said plenty of times I not been impressed by Graham all season. Wasnt impressed by him on Tuesday. Spends far too much time playing the man then watching and playing the ball. 

Mowbray said Graham had played the best he had all season on Tuesday and looked sharper. Surely you dont disagree with him?

[JBiz]

30 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Strange post. We are talking about one player being given a chance (probably from the bench) to try and improve on our woeful goalscoring record. Where do you get '3 or 4'  from? And why include Lenihan who is fairly experienced now and can hardly be called green and is injured anyway?

 

I wouldn't call a 23 year old centreback with 50 or so starts to his name "experienced". I'd call him experienced compared to Wharton, Platt et al, but that's more along the same point BB. 

The others aren't seasoned players. As for coming in from the bench, there is some credence to this, but it links to what I said about being able to "relax" a bit. We've not had the luxury.

3/4 positions? So we either play 1 or 2 strikers and 2 wide men, so if Nuttall is specifically a central forward - theirs Graham, Samuel and Antonsson who would need to be dislodged. It's not that confusing is it? 

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, Kamy100 said:

I have seen him play 6 times this season.  He is a talent and no where near the finished article.  He would however bring something different to what we currently have and it is worth giving him a shot even if it means coming off the bench.  He is confident.

My issue is that why Mowbray put his comments across today, it will be very discouraging for the youngsters as there is already a perception that he doesn't trust youth.  He could have acknowledged that Nuttall has been doing well and simply said if he carries on this kind of form it would make it difficult not to give him a chance.  

I saw the likes of Duff and Jones a number of times before they made their 1st team debuts and many who watched such games, like you have said with Nuttall, thought they showed promise 'but were not ready for the 1st team'.  I have seen Nuttall only once.

Over the years, I've seen many players at that level and you have to have talent to have a real chance of breaking through.  Duff and Jones had raw talent, so does Nuttall.  Duff and Jones were very confident in their abilities, as is Nuttall.  That confidence gives you a hugely better chance of successfully making the step up.

There is only one way to find out.  You bang them in and see what happens.

We are not talking about PL here but League One.  Nuttall is 20, Jones and Duff were 17 and 18 respectively I think.  Rooney debuted at 16 for Everton.  Ray Wilkins debuted at 17 for Chelsea and was their captain at 18 !!!

I am not saying Nuttall is as talented or as prodigious as Jones, Duff, Rooney or Wilkins but for goodness sake, this is a 20 year old banging them in for fun at U23 level whose competition is in the shape of what I think are bang average (and that's being generous) performers like Gladwin, Antonnson, Samuel and a fading Graham, not players at the top of their game like Kane, Morata or Lukaku.

It's an absolute no brainer.

[islander200]

4 hours ago, klc_2012 said:

My money is on it being contractual. Pay rise plus extension if he makes the senior squad and even more if he plays.

What was the reason for signing him then?To improve the under23 team?He can't do much more to get a place on the bench.

It's down to Mowbray not having any faith in our youth and wanting to keep the senior dressing room on side.

Someone Said on here that Mowbray said at the fans meeting in the summer that he didn't think there was a need for a cat 1 academy in league 1 and the money needed to run it would be best spent on the senior team.

[chaddyrovers]

3 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Mowbray said Graham had played the best he had all season on Tuesday and looked sharper. Surely you dont disagree with him?

Havent I already told you my thougths on Graham and this season performances. 

[bigbrandjohn]

The only way to kick start our season is to have some Roy Of The Rovers stories on the pitch. He could be one. If you get into the habit of scoring it doesn’t leave you overnight. If nothing else it puts the cat among the pigeons and shows some of them up. The worst that happens is that he gains experience. Incremental anything never changes the World. Playing it safe is likely to condemn us to mid table obscurity in Division 3. 

[lraC]

Perhaps the manager has been watching some old TV clips and taken on board the comment. "You don't win anything with kids".

[AllRoverAsia]

4 hours ago, islander200 said:

What was the reason for signing him then?To improve the under23 team?He can't do much more to get a place on the bench.

It's down to Mowbray not having any faith in our youth and wanting to keep the senior dressing room on side.

Someone Said on here that Mowbray said at the fans meeting in the summer that he didn't think there was a need for a cat 1 academy in league 1 and the money needed to run it would be best spent on the senior team.

I recall the same. His views on Cat 1 are at odds with his immediate promotion aim and bigger picture bounce through the Championship.

He got burnt badly at Coventry having to play youth and I suspect he now fears it.

He is safe for now to carry on being Moggadon Man

[arbitro]

9 hours ago, Gav said:

If he's good enough he'll get a chance blueboy.

I bet you've never seen him play like the rest on this thread, which makes the calls for his selection a bit of a mockery wouldn't you say?

 

I'd never seen Phil Jones before his debut against Chelsea in the PL. And that applies to most young players who get a chance and grab it.

If he isn't ready now when will he be? Does he need to keep up his goals to games ratio for the rest of the season to prove himself to Mowbray (by which time he is out of contract). He might crash and burn but unless he gets a chance we will never know.

[Stuart]

14 hours ago, Tom said:

Didnt he only get a little while against Bury? Why would you use that as a reason to defend this nonsense 

What about Danny Graham vs Wimbledon, Plymouth and countless others, similar with Samuel.

Those guys aren't doing enough but just been told they won't come under pressure from a lad doing more than enough to warrant a chance.

What else can he do? 

He will always agree with the manager.

For me, Mowbray is being very stubborn. I still can’t believe that he brought on Gladwin to try to win a game (assuming he wasn’t protecting the point) but can’t find room for an in form striker. Although he is young, he has strength and bravery. He would have scored that chance at the end on Tuesday - no doubt.

Mowbray is making his own rope here. He had better get this one right.

[blueboy3333]

9 hours ago, Biz said:

Certainly agree on this one Gav. We've played 2 strikers or 3 upfront with two wide, and a number 10. We've got Graham, Antonsson and Samuel, Bennett, Chapman, Dack, Conway and Gladwin for a maximum of 3 or 4 positions.

Its probably apt to mention that we'd probably have seen more youngsters had the actual "Seniors" put us in a position to relax a little. It's a catch 22 scenario, if we struggle further by trying to bed in 3/4 more youngsters on top of the relatively green Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan, Chapman et al - the criticism would be rightly placed at the managers door, if he plays it safer but falls on his more experienced players who fail to produce, he still takes the blame.

Again, where did you get 3/4 from, we were only talking about NUttall?

8 hours ago, Biz said:

I wouldn't call a 23 year old centreback with 50 or so starts to his name "experienced". I'd call him experienced compared to Wharton, Platt et al, but that's more along the same point BB. 

The others aren't seasoned players. As for coming in from the bench, there is some credence to this, but it links to what I said about being able to "relax" a bit. We've not had the luxury.

3/4 positions? So we either play 1 or 2 strikers and 2 wide men, so if Nuttall is specifically a central forward - theirs Graham, Samuel and Antonsson who would need to be dislodged. It's not that confusing is it? 

It must be, you seem to think I'm calling for 3/4youngsters to be brought in when, for the 3rd time, I only mentioned Nuttall.

I think that chest infection may have turned into a fever

[blueboy3333]

7 hours ago, islander200 said:

It's down to Mowbray not having any faith in our youth and wanting to keep the senior dressing room on side.

Someone Said on here that Mowbray said at the fans meeting in the summer that he didn't think there was a need for a cat 1 academy in league 1 and the money needed to run it would be best spent on the senior team.

Bingo!

He also said a few weeks ago that he 'couldn't ignore Nuttall much longer' if he keeps banging them in. This week he's saying the he's not even thinking him as an option.

He'll probably come out this week and say Nuttall has 'personal problems' like he disgracefully did with Tomlinson.

[JBiz]

10 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Again, where did you get 3/4 from, we were only talking about NUttall?

It must be, you seem to think I'm calling for 3/4youngsters to be brought in when, for the 3rd time, I only mentioned Nuttall.

I think that chest infection may have turned into a fever

No, the point is that Doyle, Butterworth, Hardcastle Travis, Tomlinson, Wharton, Platt, et al have as many reasons as Nuttall does to justify some level of inclusion, at least from the bench.

Trying to push more into the first 18 on top of the likes of Lenihan, Raya, Nyambe and Chapman would spectacularly backfire in my opinion.

Its easy to say in hindsight "Nuttall would've bagged that chance that gladwin missed", but if you'd asked me before - I'd would've chosen Gladwin to come on out of the two.

This is based on Gladwins history of actually scoring goals, and playing against teams at this level - Nuttalls sum total of experience involves playing against u23's and on loan at Stranraer.

So, as you can see - I think the chatter around Nuttall being involved is down to some successful performances with u23s, as many of the others mentioned- however it's a big step, and we've plenty of options in front.

The stuff about contracts being the issue is laughable. 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

No, the point is that Doyle, Butterworth, Hardcastle Travis, Tomlinson, Wharton, Platt, et al have as many reasons as Nuttall does to justify some level of inclusion, at least from the bench.

No, the discussion is about us having a mis-firing strike force. Nuttall has been mentioned because he is banging them in at reserve level. The players highlighted have not been mentioned in this thread by anyone but you.  If you are just resorting to straw men there's no point in discussing it. It's as laughable as 'stuff about contracts'.

Gladwin isn't a striker. As he clearly showed.

[Tom]

Genuine question, how would a time come for Tony when Nuttall is not a risk?

Rashford is younger than him, he got a chance and took it with both hands at a much higher level. (Again not saying he's in his league but the comparison being to get proven you need a chance) 

We are league one; the league teams send their young lads to get tested, you can almost guarantee if the lad was scoring like this for Leeds reserves he'd end up on loan and playing in this league.

Bonkers.

[JBiz]

19 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

No, the discussion is about us having a mis-firing strike force. Nuttall has been mentioned because he is banging them in at reserve level. The players highlighted have not been mentioned in this thread by anyone but you.  If you are just resorting to straw men there's no point in discussing it. It's as laughable as 'stuff about contracts'.

Gladwin isn't a striker. As he clearly showed.

No BB, you just struggle to accept other opinions - Nuttall is 4th choice, and thus chances will be limited when we play 1 of up top. If we hadn't had to chase several games, I expect we'd see more youth.

It's a similar argument for why Tomlinson doesn't play, or Travis, or doyle etc. 

 

13 minutes ago, Tom said:

Genuine question, how would a time come for Tony when Nuttall is not a risk?

Rashford is younger than him, he got a chance and took it with both hands at a much higher level. (Again not saying he's in his league but the comparison being to get proven you need a chance) 

We are league one; the league teams send their young lads to get tested, you can almost guarantee if the lad was scoring like this for Leeds reserves he'd end up on loan and playing in this league.

Bonkers.

It's a @#/? or bust season Tom. The idea of relying on the youth team is bonkers.

[Tom]

I'm not saying we should rely on youth team players to get us promoted but the lad has earnt a spot on the bench to prove he is or isn't ready.

So if we are 3-0 up tomorrow with 30 minutes left would you not think he would be worth a run out?

The way Tony put it across was totally wrong, maybe he's trying to employ some kidology to keep him working for a place but I feel it was badly handled and could be very demotivating. 

 

[blueboy3333]

4 minutes ago, Biz said:

No BB, you just struggle to accept other opinions - Nuttall is 4th choice, and thus chances will be limited when we play 1 of up top. If we hadn't had to chase several games, I expect we'd see more youth.

It's a similar argument for why Tomlinson doesn't play, or Travis, or doyle etc. 

 

It's a @#/? or bust season Tom. The idea of relying on the youth team is bonkers.

Yours isn't an opinion, you are just making things up to argue against. Try to concentrate on Nuttall. If you don't rate him then fair enough but all anyone is saying on this thread is that he deserves a chance.

Nice straw man for Tom. Laughable.

[JBiz]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Yours isn't an opinion, you are just making things up to argue against. Try to concentrate on Nuttall. If you don't rate him then fair enough but all anyone is saying on this thread is that he deserves a chance.

Nice straw man for Tom. Laughable.

I must've imagined that we have Graham, Samuel and Antonsson then, and I must've imagined that another season in this division would be critical - apologies.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Tom said:

I'm not saying we should rely on youth team players to get us promoted but the lad has earnt a spot on the bench to prove he is or isn't ready.

So if we are 3-0 up tomorrow with 30 minutes left would you not think he would be worth a run out?

The way Tony put it across was totally wrong, maybe he's trying to employ some kidology to keep him working for a place but I feel it was badly handled and could be very demotivating. 

 

You're wasting your time with Biz. he can't accept a simple premise. He doesn't have a considered argument so he will just claim you want to rely on the 'youth team'.

 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

I must've imagined that we have Graham, Samuel and Antonsson then, and I must've imagined that another season in this division would be critical - apologies.

Finally we return to the discussion. And the argument is that THEY ARE NOT SCORING AND SO WHY NOT GIVE NUTTALL A CHANCE.

I look forward to you bringing Doyle into it again

[jw_]

Hells teeth !

If Nuttall can't get a game now he'll never get a game. He deserves a chance and it's no good anyone saying "oh yes he scores goals in the under 23's" because where else can he score them Mowbray won't let him.

The mob we have now have  proved they're not up to it so I say give Nuttall the chance to prove that he is, what is there to lose.

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Finally we return to the discussion. And the argument is that THEY ARE NOT SCORING AND SO WHY NOT GIVE NUTTALL A CHANCE.

I look forward to you bringing Doyle into it again

BB, it's an intertwined issue. No matter how much you deflect from it, Caddis has been criticised, why isn't Travis involved? Same with Williams and Doyle, Whittingham and Tomlinson, Ward and Platt.

We aren't in a scenario blessed with time. The likelihood hood is simple, if Nuttall comes on and misses that chance that Gladwin did, he and Mowbray are pilloried. 

[tomphil]

He should be on the bench ahead of a 17 year old loanee from West Brom surely ?

[47er]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

We are league one; the league teams send their young lads to get tested, you can almost guarantee if the lad was scoring like this for Leeds reserves he'd end up on loan and playing in this league.

Probably for us!