[Archived] Joe Nuttall

[47er]

9 minutes ago, Biz said:

BB, it's an intertwined issue. No matter how much you deflect from it, Caddis has been criticised, why isn't Travis involved? Same with Williams and Doyle, Whittingham and Tomlinson, Ward and Platt.

We aren't in a scenario blessed with time. The likelihood hood is simple, if Nuttall comes on and misses that chance that Gladwin did, he and Mowbray are pilloried. 

I think the focus is on Nuttall because he is scoring a lot of goals whereas those strikers chosen........

[RV Blue]

1 hour ago, Tom said:

Rashford is younger than him, he got a chance and took it with both hands at a much higher level. (Again not saying he's in his league but the comparison being to get proven you need a chance) 

Interestingly, Rashford scored 1 goal in 8 games at reserve level in the season that he got his chance in the Premier League... Nuttall has scored 12 in 8 so far and apparently doesn't deserve a chance in League 1. Really awful from Mowbray.

[JAL]

3 hours ago, Stuart said:

He will always agree with the manager.

For me, Mowbray is being very stubborn. I still can’t believe that he brought on Gladwin to try to win a game (assuming he wasn’t protecting the point) but can’t find room for an in form striker. Although he is young, he has strength and bravery. He would have scored that chance at the end on Tuesday - no doubt.

Mowbray is making his own rope here. He had better get this one right.

Why dont you just ask his agent how much he wants a week for the lad to play in first team ? Can Rovers afford it and is it good value ?

[JAL]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

No BB, you just struggle to accept other opinions - Nuttall is 4th choice, and thus chances will be limited when we play 1 of up top. If we hadn't had to chase several games, I expect we'd see more youth.

It's a similar argument for why Tomlinson doesn't play, or Travis, or doyle etc. 

 

It's a @#/? or bust season Tom. The idea of relying on the youth team is bonkers.

Rovers are bust !

[Dreams of 1995]

51 minutes ago, tomphil said:

He should be on the bench ahead of a 17 year old loanee from West Brom surely ?

NAIL ON HEAD.

If there is an argument to be had that Nuttall isn't 'ready' then why have we took this lad on? Because he has a single appearance in the Premier League? The same can be said for Harry Chapman. He's younger than Nuttall and has been given far more chances - look at how he has done. Nuttall deserves time off the bench, certainly more than Gladwin has done in his handful of awful appearances.

The argument for Gladwin coming on before Nuttall because he's "played at this level" is absolutely null and void if his experience at this level has been 1 half decent season followed by years of absolute dross. He's been nothing short of awful for Rovers. Give the lad a go.

[JBiz]

17 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

NAIL ON HEAD.

If there is an argument to be had that Nuttall isn't 'ready' then why have we took this lad on? Because he has a single appearance in the Premier League? The same can be said for Harry Chapman. He's younger than Nuttall and has been given far more chances - look at how he has done. Nuttall deserves time off the bench, certainly more than Gladwin has done in his handful of awful appearances.

The argument for Gladwin coming on before Nuttall because he's "played at this level" is absolutely null and void if his experience at this level has been 1 half decent season followed by years of absolute dross. He's been nothing short of awful for Rovers. Give the lad a go.

Couldn't disagree more, if you think that being "fancied" as a potential prem player in the very near future is the same as bagging a few goals in 3rd tier reserve league, you'd need to reavaluate your understanding of youth football.

Great to see us once again writing players off though, I mean we may as well pay off Gladwin already! 

[Oldgregg86]

This is a man's league , we need experience to get us up, no place for kids, 20 years old nuttall with first team experience in Scotland who is scoring for fun is not the answer. Evans is injured ? Is he ? Good job I signed 17 year old Harper to throw on then.

Just read back and point been made . My bad

[Dreams of 1995]

21 minutes ago, Biz said:

Couldn't disagree more, if you think that being "fancied" as a potential prem player in the very near future is the same as bagging a few goals in 3rd tier reserve league, you'd need to reavaluate your understanding of youth football.

Great to see us once again writing players off though, I mean we may as well pay off Gladwin already! 

I haven't wrote him off. He's done that. He got his big money move to QPR after his one good season with Swindon. This spectacularly failed and he ended bouncing around on loan for a few years before we picked him up. He couldn't hack it in the Championship with them and looked like a fish out of the water. I quote a QPR fan who is a close friend of mine: "We had a crop of bad players in those crazy few years but he topped the lot".

He even failed to impress on his subsequent loan moves from QPR. It's not about reevaluating any understanding, the proof is in the pudding. He didn't perform for them, he hasn't performed for us. Why would you not give this lad a chance before repeatedly making the same mistake with him?

Jason Lowe was "fancied as a potential prem player". A lot of players are "fancied" but I'd much rather give one of our own a go than throw a handful of substitute appearances to an unproven 17 year old with no loyalty or affiliation to us at all. I think it's you that needs to reevaluate your understanding of youth football - they'll never progress if they aren't given chances, so 20 minutes here, 30 minutes there isn't going to harm us or Nuttall's career. If anything it will add value to both parties. 

[tomphil]

19 minutes ago, Biz said:

Couldn't disagree more, if you think that being "fancied" as a potential prem player in the very near future is the same as bagging a few goals in 3rd tier reserve league, you'd need to reavaluate your understanding of youth football.

Great to see us once again writing players off though, I mean we may as well pay off Gladwin already! 

Fancied so much they've sent him on loan to the bench of a league 1 team ?

Ok then

[JBiz]

2 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I haven't wrote him off. He's done that. He got his big money move to QPR after his one good season with Swindon. This spectacularly failed and he ended bouncing around on loan for a few years before we picked him up. He couldn't hack it in the Championship with them and looked like a fish out of the water. I quote a QPR fan who is a close friend of mine: "We had a crop of bad players in those crazy few years but he topped the lot".

He even failed to impress on his subsequent loan moves from QPR. It's not about reevaluating any understanding, the proof is in the pudding. He didn't perform for them, he hasn't performed for us. Why would you not give this lad a chance before repeatedly making the same mistake with him?

Jason Lowe was "fancied as a potential prem player". A lot of players are "fancied" but I'd much rather give one of our own a go and throw a handful of substitute appearances to an unproven 17 year old with no loyalty or affiliation to us at all. I think it's you that needs to reevaluate your understanding of youth football - they'll never progress if they aren't given chances, so 20 minutes here, 30 minutes there isn't going to harm us or Nuttall's career. If anything it will add value to both parties. 

You just did. Lads made less than 5 league substitute appearances and he's "wrote himself off". Whilst someone's mates opinion might put some gloss on your point, Id prefer to give him the chance with my own eyes.

I like how you dismissed Jason Lowe, but then made the point about playing homegrown players with an "affiliation". I call that a contradiction :-) 

[JBiz]

3 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Fancied so much they've sent him on loan to the bench of a league 1 team ?

Ok then

Yea, where I imagine they expected him to get game time, and be involved in a cat 1 academy. It's not rocket science.

Arent you supposed to tell me that someone's pocket is being lined to take Harper and keep Nuttall out? Isn't that level of conspiracy your forte?

Was it you who started the "it's not really Melania Trump" theories? 

[tomphil]

Just now, Biz said:

Yea, where I imagine they expected him to get game time, and be involved in a cat 1 academy. It's not rocket science.

Arent you supposed to tell me that someone's pocket is being lined to take Harper and keep Nuttall out? Isn't that level of conspiracy your forte?

Was it you who started the "it's not really Melania Trump" theories? 

Is that you taking the thread off topic again for the umpteenth time because you've backed yourself into another corner ?

If i'm tinfoil you're Teflon, try anything to deflect attention from the arguments you start when you start floundering which is often

Anyway back on topic Joe Nuttal ( not the entire U23s ) should be worth a shout on the bench. TM tinkers & rotates in the first team so why not rotate him with Harper on the bench and have that option available.

[Roverthechimp]

11 hours ago, islander200 said:

What was the reason for signing him then?To improve the under23 team?He can't do much more to get a place on the bench.

It's down to Mowbray not having any faith in our youth and wanting to keep the senior dressing room on side.

Someone Said on here that Mowbray said at the fans meeting in the summer that he didn't think there was a need for a cat 1 academy in league 1 and the money needed to run it would be best spent on the senior team.

The reason would be to have him on "extended trial" with the obvious clauses about making first team squad, first sub appearance and first start. As of today a normal club would upgrade his contract, pay whats stipulated and give him his chance. Sadly we have already spent money allocated to the first team (imo) probably in the belief that Nuttall wouldn't make such a dramatic impact but rather with a view to next year (calender or season depending on sales in January)

[47er]

23 minutes ago, Biz said:

Yea, where I imagine they expected him to get game time, and be involved in a cat 1 academy. It's not rocket science.

Arent you supposed to tell me that someone's pocket is being lined to take Harper and keep Nuttall out? Isn't that level of conspiracy your forte?

Was it you who started the "it's not really Melania Trump" theories? 

Resorting to a personal attack again when faced with a much more plausible argument than your own. You sound a bit desperate this time.

I'll stick to my original theory. Based on Venkys' history, it'll be about money and contracts. No more money in the pot to give Nuttall a raise.

Agree with Jal on this one.

[islander200]

1 minute ago, klc_2012 said:

The reason would be to have him on "extended trial" with the obvious clauses about making first team squad, first sub appearance and first start. As of today a normal club would upgrade his contract, pay whats stipulated and give him his chance. Sadly we have already spent money allocated to the first team (imo) probably in the belief that Nuttall wouldn't make such a dramatic impact but rather with a view to next year (calender or season depending on sales in January)

Well then Mowbray is lieing to the fans then as only recently he claimed he hadn't spent up his budget.We also made a bid for that Heneghan which backs up what Mowbray was saying.In my opinion it has nothing to do with money,Mowbray just doesn't have the faith in bringing through our youth

[47er]

Just now, islander200 said:

Well then Mowbray is lieing to the fans then as only recently he claimed he hadn't spent up his budget.We also made a bid for that Heneghan which backs up what Mowbray was saying.In my opinion it has nothing to do with money,Mowbray just doesn't have the faith in bringing through our youth

Then he's not much use to us is he? what's the point of the Academy. To get them fed up so they move to another club for next to nothing?

[islander200]

Just now, 47er said:

Then he's not much use to us is he? what's the point of the Academy. To get them fed up so they move to another club for next to nothing?

I agree with you totally,you only have to read my previous posts to see that.The comments by Mowbray yesterday where ridiculous,they only served to demoralize our youth by basically saying they won't get a chance unless there is an injury crisis,and it lets our underperforming senior players rest easy that their places won't be under threat from our in form youth players

[JBiz]

Just now, tomphil said:

Is that you taking the thread off topic again for the umpteenth time because you've backed yourself into another corner ?

If i'm tinfoil you're Teflon, try anything to deflect attention from the arguments you start when you start floundering which is often

Anyway back on topic Joe Nuttal ( not the entire U23s ) should be worth a shout on the bench. TM tinkers & rotates in the first team so why not rotate him with Harper on the bench and have that option available.

I'd call relating everything to betting scandals and agent rumours; "grade A thread derailing", but that's just my perspective.

Backed myself into a corner? Because I believe that someone from the u23s isn't worth a punt just yet? It's called an opinion. 

The kind of opinion that doesn't rely on assumption about contracts, assumption about agent interference or any other factor that lacks any real basis.

 

[AggyBlue]

13 minutes ago, klc_2012 said:

As of today a normal club would upgrade his contract, pay whats stipulated and give him his chance. Sadly we have already spent money allocated to the first team (imo) probably in the belief that Nuttall wouldn't make such a dramatic impact but rather with a view to next year (calender or season depending on sales in January)

ToMo said at the last supporters meeting that he has money still left in the pot after the summer transfer window

[gumboots]

3 hours ago, Biz said:

No BB, you just struggle to accept other opinions - Nuttall is 4th choice, and thus chances will be limited when we play 1 of up top. If we hadn't had to chase several games, I expect we'd see more youth

Perhaps if we played a striker who was likely to score from a chance we wouldnt be chasing games

[Skiptonrover]

No way can you throw the lad in if he ain't ready it will destroy his confidence & confidence can't be regained easily. I think he will get his chance when he's good & ready or when Samuel, Graham, & antossen get injured or substantially drop off form. 

[JBiz]

Just now, gumboots said:

Perhaps if we played a striker who was likely to score from a chance we wouldnt be chasing games

See below. Nuttall is now in the "grass is greener" category because are others haven't fired on all cylinders.

Just now, Bluebarley said:

No way can you throw the lad in if he ain't ready it will destroy his confidence & confidence can't be regained easily. 

 

[AggyBlue]

The only true way to find out if he's 'ready' is to give him some time on the pitch

[Skiptonrover]

Just now, Biz said:

See below. Nuttall is now in the "grass is greener" category because are others haven't fired on all cylinders.

 

Just my opinion that TM sees him in training ect & has no obvious reason to exclude him if he believed he was ready he would be in like a shot. JN is not the answer right now.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Bluebarley said:

No way can you throw the lad in if he ain't ready it will destroy his confidence & confidence can't be regained easily. I think he will get his chance when he's good & ready or when Samuel, Graham, & antossen get injured or substantially drop off form. 

How far would this " substantial drop off in form " have to go. As far as I can see they're scraping the bottom of the barrel at the moment. This kid will fancy his chances and his confidence will be high.

Apart from ability confidence is the next important ingredient in a player.

I remember watching Ian Rush at the height of his powers. He was lurking on the left hand edge of the penalty area close to the byline when a long cross came over from the right wing. He instantly volleyed the ball back left footed  past the goalie into the far top corner ! Not many players would have attempted that shot, they would have brought the ball down and looked for support. That was the shot of a player with massive confidence.

I saw him get a very similar chance when he came back from his ill fated spell in Italy and he just controlled the ball and passed it into midfield. His confidence had been shaken.