[Archived] Joe Nuttall

[JBiz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

How far would this " substantial drop off in form " have to go. As far as I can see they're scraping the bottom of the barrel at the moment. This kid will fancy his chances and his confidence will be high.

Apart from ability confidence is the next important ingredient in a player.

I remember watching Ian Rush at the height of his powers. He was lurking on the left hand edge of the penalty area close to the byline when a long cross came over from the right wing. He instantly volleyed the ball back left footed  past the goalie into the far top corner ! Not many players would have attempted that shot, they would have brought the ball down and looked for support. That was the shot of a player with massive confidence.

I saw him get a very similar chance when he came back from his ill fated spell in Italy and he just controlled the ball and passed it into midfield. His confidence had been shaken.

I use an anology at work about confidence being like a house of cards, takes time to build up and seconds to dismantle. Matt Jansen is a good example for us, albeit an injury on a scooter and long layoff changed him as a player.

[Skiptonrover]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

How far would this " substantial drop off in form " have to go. As far as I can see they're scraping the bottom of the barrel at the moment. This kid will fancy his chances and his confidence will be high.

Apart from ability confidence is the next important ingredient in a player.

I remember watching Ian Rush at the height of his powers. He was lurking on the left hand edge of the penalty area close to the byline when a long cross came over from the right wing. He instantly volleyed the ball back left footed  past the goalie into the far top corner ! Not many players would have attempted that shot, they would have brought the ball down and looked for support. That was the shot of a player with massive confidence.

I saw him get a very similar chance when he came back from his ill fated spell in Italy and he just controlled the ball and passed it into midfield. His confidence had been shaken.

Ok then you might be right there is certainly a good argument for a JN inclusion it's true you never know, if it did go t1ts up who's job is on the line & would JN ever recover if he failed to deliver. It's a risky experiment I can see why TM is exercising caution.

[islander200]

Just now, Bluebarley said:

Ok then you might be right there is certainly a good argument for a JN inclusion it's true you never know, if it did go t1ts up who's job is on the line & would JN ever recover if he failed to deliver. It's a risky experiment I can see why TM is exercising caution.

For me its simple,the other night we Needed a goal to get three points,with 15 minutes to go would you rather an in form striker who would be bursting a gut to make an impression to come on,or Gladwin who has done nothing of note since he joined and looks completely shot of confidence.You can only find out If someone is ready by including them and giving them game time.I don't think anyone is advocating for Nuttall to start but his goalscoring record and form at the moment suggests he is most definitely worthy of a place on the bench considering our other strikers are not in any sort of form.

[arbitro]

Although it helps it's not entirely about goals. Anybody who has seen us lately will know that the movement of our strikers hasn't been too good. I have read a few (and agree with them) that on several occasions our best passer of the ball has looked to play in the channels or in behind and in front of him were players expecting a ball into feet with their backs to goal. Nuttall would give us something we haven't really got in our current strike force.

[Doaksie]

5 minutes ago, Bluebarley said:

if it did go t1ts up who's job is on the line & would JN ever recover if he failed to deliver. It's a risky experiment I can see why TM is exercising caution.

To be brutally honest, if he never recovered from this 'traumatic' experience of playing poorly, then what odds - he leaves at the end of the season. We move on. Our first team is the priority, not Joe Nuttall's career. If he never gets a chance he could potentially leave at the end of the season anyway - with the desire for some more meaningful game time elsewhere.

Mowbray's recent comments leave me wondering why we ever even bothered signing Nuttall. Him and his agent are probably wondering the same thing. I can't see how he's not currently worth a shot over Gladwin on the bench. Mowbray is too 'safe', and that safety will only lead to a nice comfortable little mid-table finish

[Tom]

18 minutes ago, Biz said:

I use an anology at work about confidence being like a house of cards, takes time to build up and seconds to dismantle. Matt Jansen is a good example for us, albeit an injury on a scooter and long layoff changed him as a player.

Matt Jansen is a terrible example, pretty sure it was much more than a lack of confidence

[RV Blue]

Why does he think that 17 year old Harper  deserves a chance but 20 year old Nuttall doesn't? Something doesn't add up. Both are untested at this level but Nuttall has more first team experience than Harper.

[Dreams of 1995]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

You just did. Lads made less than 5 league substitute appearances and he's "wrote himself off". Whilst someone's mates opinion might put some gloss on your point, Id prefer to give him the chance with my own eyes.

I like how you dismissed Jason Lowe, but then made the point about playing homegrown players with an "affiliation". I call that a contradiction :-) 

It's not a contradiction at all ":-)" - how smarmy can one man be?

What it was is a response to your rating of Harper, a lad I'm 100% positive you've seen less than 5 times, as better than Nuttall simply because he's "fancied" (...........HA). Harper has done a sum total of 0 for Rovers whereas Nuttall has shown himself to perform consistently in a Rovers shirt. Incomparable for which one we should prefer.

It was saying that Jason Lowe was himself 'fancied' and look what happened there. However, I am still glad that Lowe got his chance and we didn't sign some nobody from a lesser academy than ours to give him a go. Ultimately Lowe gave us a lot of years of service and filled a gap in our squad that otherwise we couldn't have filled. It wasn't his fault he was a poor footballer.

In terms of Gladwin you may not want to judge him on his 5 performances but even his performances elsewhere over the past 2 years has shown he isn't even an average footballer.

 

[the original david brent]

8 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

Why does he think that 17 year old Harper  deserves a chance but 20 year old Nuttall doesn't? Something doesn't add up. Both are untested at this level but Nuttall has more first team experience than Harper.

To further back your point 17 year old loanee Harper was thrown into the deep end, namely starting away at a tough team in Scunthorpe after being with the club a couple of weeks.

Yet Mowbray refuses to put 20 year old Nuttall on a 7 Man bench, even at home to a team bottom of the league. Plus he is a permanent signing and has been with us a few months.

i agree something is amiss. 

[Dreams of 1995]

2 minutes ago, david brent said:

To further back your point 17 year old loanee Harper was thrown into the deep end, namely starting away at a tough team in Scunthorpe after being with the club a couple of weeks.

Yet Mowbray refuses to put 20 year old Nuttall on a 7 Man bench, even at home to a team bottom of the league. Plus he is a permanent signing and has been with us a few months.

i agree something is amiss. 

But David, Harper is "fancied". Of course he's better than any other midfielder we have, both in our first team squad and our own academy.

As for Nuttal...giving a lad who has scored 12 goals in 8 games a go? You need reevaluate what you know about youth football. You could completely kill his career. Nonsense talk. Why play someone unproven who has done nothing at this level? Ignore Harper, he's fancied.......ignore Nyambe, ignore Chapman.........@#/?

Let's just stick with Graham & Samuel & Antonsson, they aren't doing anything wrong are they? Or right for that matter 

STOP SAYING TONY IS WRONG.

CONSPIRACY THEORY NUT JOB BACK THE LADS FFS

[roverandout]

Seem to remember a raw 17 year old witb hardly any first team experience setting the 2004 euro championships alight

[JBiz]

2 hours ago, Tom said:

Matt Jansen is a terrible example, pretty sure it was much more than a lack of confidence

Do you think a head injury might've impacted his confidence to head a ball, make a 50/50, and the 12 months out may have taken him out of his stride? It's not comparable to losing confidence because of poor performance, but it's certainly a good example of a Rovers striker who looked a complete shadow of himself without the spring in his step, that the previous two seasons had given him.

[JBiz]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

It's not a contradiction at all ":-)" - how smarmy can one man be?

What it was is a response to your rating of Harper, a lad I'm 100% positive you've seen less than 5 times, as better than Nuttall simply because he's "fancied" (...........HA). Harper has done a sum total of 0 for Rovers whereas Nuttall has shown himself to perform consistently in a Rovers shirt. Incomparable for which one we should prefer.

It was saying that Jason Lowe was himself 'fancied' and look what happened there. However, I am still glad that Lowe got his chance and we didn't sign some nobody from a lesser academy than ours to give him a go. Ultimately Lowe gave us a lot of years of service and filled a gap in our squad that otherwise we couldn't have filled. It wasn't his fault he was a poor footballer.

In terms of Gladwin you may not want to judge him on his 5 performances but even his performances elsewhere over the past 2 years has shown he isn't even an average footballer.

 

I could be more smarmy if you want? 

You make a good point on Harper - I've not seen him enough to make judgement. I couldn't judge his selection as pointless, or "dodgy" without any basis. 

As for Gladwin - you can rush into this summary if you want, but I'm prepared to give the lad a bit more rope personally. Much like Antonsson, who had been pretty much written off prior to having a level of impact.

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

But David, Harper is "fancied". Of course he's better than any other midfielder we have, both in our first team squad and our own academy.

As for Nuttal...giving a lad who has scored 12 goals in 8 games a go? You need reevaluate what you know about youth football. You could completely kill his career. Nonsense talk. Why play someone unproven who has done nothing at this level? Ignore Harper, he's fancied.......ignore Nyambe, ignore Chapman.........@#/?

Let's just stick with Graham & Samuel & Antonsson, they aren't doing anything wrong are they? Or right for that matter 

STOP SAYING TONY IS WRONG.

CONSPIRACY THEORY NUT JOB BACK THE LADS FFS

And you have the audacity to call me smarmy! Passive aggressive nonsense that just highlights you and others inability to accept different view points.

[Mercer]

35 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Seem to remember a raw 17 year old witb hardly any first team experience setting the 2004 euro championships alight

Anyone remember Norman Whiteside becoming the youngest player then ever to appear in the World Cup in Spain in 1982 after only just turning 17 years of age !  After the World Cup, he started the season leading United's attack !

I think Mowbray is so sickening and galling.  His attitude to our young players is, IMV, beyond the pale.  Sooner we get rid of the idiot, the better.

[Oldgregg86]

You could argue a 20 year old in the form of his life not playing could harm his career

[Dreams of 1995]

30 minutes ago, Biz said:

I could be more smarmy if you want? 

You make a good point on Harper - I've not seen him enough to make judgement. I couldn't judge his selection as pointless, or "dodgy" without any basis. 

As for Gladwin - you can rush into this summary if you want, but I'm prepared to give the lad a bit more rope personally. Much like Antonsson, who had been pretty much written off prior to having a level of impact.

I don't think I've ever said Harper's selection or signing is "dodgy" but it certainly is pointless when you consider the other players available to us.

Antonsson flatters to deceive. He has done virtually nothing except them goals. Really, really odd how you just write off Nuttall's goals as just "bagging a few" yet completely ignore all of Antonsson's faults and consider his 3 goals a 'level of impact'. In truth Antonsson has been a detriment to the team, he's not good enough and, if scoring goals is all you consider when valuating a player, you could argue that Nuttall is the better of the two. You can only score against what's put in front of you.

Rushing into a judgement for Gladwin would have been to do so without ever seeing him play. You could formulate an opinion on the signing based on his past stats/opinions of the other teams he's played against. It's when you couple those opinions with physical proof of his ability, ie: watching him play, that you can then pass judgement. I've seen him play 4 times now and each time he's played he's been really, really bad. He was terrible vs Burnley and that's something I'll never forget: a 6 foot + guy didn't win one header against 30+ year old, 5 foot 9 Phil Bardsley. WOW.

28 minutes ago, Biz said:

And you have the audacity to call me smarmy! Passive aggressive nonsense that just highlights you and others inability to accept different view points.

I wouldn't say it was smarmy at all. Mocking yes, smarmy no. Smarmy would be little weird smiley faces after incorrectly accusing someone of contradiction. I certainly don't deny anyones rights to have a different view point but on more than one occasion you seem to disagree with the poster purely because of who posts it. There are certainly cases whereby some posters defend certain views when there isn't any logical reason to do so.

For the record I wholly disagree with the betting syndicate opinion. I agree wholeheartedly with the "illegal not stupid" quote of another poster a few days ago.

However, unlike you, I don't bring it up every time tomphil says something I disagree with because, unlike you, I'd rather argue the topic and not the person.

 

[JBiz]

5 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I don't think I've ever said Harper's selection or signing is "dodgy" but it certainly is pointless when you consider the other players available to us.

Antonsson flatters to deceive. He has done virtually nothing except them goals. Really, really odd how you just write off Nuttall's goals as just "bagging a few" yet completely ignore all of Antonsson's faults and consider his 3 goals a 'level of impact'. In truth Antonsson has been a detriment to the team, he's not good enough and, if scoring goals is all you consider when valuating a player, you could argue that Nuttall is the better of the two. You can only score against what's put in front of you.

Rushing into a judgement for Gladwin would have been to do so without ever seeing him play. You could formulate an opinion on the signing based on his past stats/opinions of the other teams he's played against. It's when you couple those opinions with physical proof of his ability, ie: watching him play, that you can then pass judgement. I've seen him play 4 times now and each time he's played he's been really, really bad. He was terrible vs Burnley and that's something I'll never forget: a 6 foot + guy didn't win one header against 30+ year old, 5 foot 9 Phil Bardsley. WOW.

I wouldn't say it was smarmy at all. Mocking yes, smarmy no. Smarmy would be little weird smiley faces after incorrectly accusing someone of contradiction. I certainly don't deny anyones rights to have a different view point but on more than one occasion you seem to disagree with the poster purely because of who posts it. There are certainly cases whereby some posters defend certain views when there isn't any logical reason to do so.

For the record I wholly disagree with the betting syndicate opinion. I agree wholeheartedly with the "illegal not stupid" quote of another poster a few days ago.

However, unlike you, I don't bring it up every time tomphil says something I disagree with because, unlike you, I'd rather argue the topic and not the person.

 

Pointless by your opinion - whilst completely irrelevant to the Joe Nuttall scenario, it still is only YOUR opinion, and I certainly can't blame the manager for seeking out favours from old clubs (WBA for Harper and Boro for Chapman) higher level loans to support a squad dropping 12 players over the summer. Especially a young one (probably on cheap loan wages/fee) who can play several positions. Especially since he has already said he had hardly any time to prepare and hardly any real transfer advice from the club he could work with. If you've got an issue with that, this is not the thread, there is already a plethora of TM threads to utilise for that discussion.

Nuttall's goals ARE IN THE RESERVES. How difficult is it to understand this, against other u23 defences and youth teams that don't have the luxuries we have at that level. How many teams he has bagged against, have a category 1 academy to support their backup ranks? Antonsson, who (thanks meadows for the analogy) often looks not that bad, but not that good! In flashes he's looked the part, but at times his final ball, pass or shot has been poor. He has therefore had a "level of impact", why this needs explaining is beyond me. Do I want/expect more from him? Again, a different debate.

Gladwin...He was terrible against Burnley... I think that probably sums up why less than 5 games is enough to completely write a professional footballer off. Again, keep repeating yourself, and I will keep repeating myself, the judgement is out on Gladwin, and until he is given a full crack at the whip, I won't be taken the easy route and simply writing him off.

You replied suggesting I couldn't be any more "smarmy" - that is the definition of replying to the poster and not the content, so don't give me the "holier than thou" crap. You waxed on about JL as if it made any sense, but it was a contradiction from my point of view - deal with that opinion or simply do not post it if you cannot accept that some responses might not come from the same perspective. The quoted post was also the first post to move the topic away from the discussion and onto a the posters or a personality clash - ergo you instigated this nonsense, and then went on to compound it by bringing up issues between myself and other posters. Tomphil is big and ugly enough to take the joshing, just like I am. If you look back - the "Melania Trump" quip was a reply to a one line dismissive post that had a similar tongue in cheek element.

I tire of this. I really do. There is a simple thing to understand here - I cannot fathom the furore about a young strikers lack of inclusion, when we've got ample choices in front of him. I felt as if we may have seen more points, we might've seen more risks with kids. What is so bloody hard to accept about that?

[Stuart]

4 hours ago, klc_2012 said:

The reason would be to have him on "extended trial" with the obvious clauses about making first team squad, first sub appearance and first start. As of today a normal club would upgrade his contract, pay whats stipulated and give him his chance. Sadly we have already spent money allocated to the first team (imo) probably in the belief that Nuttall wouldn't make such a dramatic impact but rather with a view to next year (calender or season depending on sales in January)

Very plausible.

[arbitro]

10 minutes ago, Biz said:

Pointless by your opinion - whilst completely irrelevant to the Joe Nuttall scenario, it still is only YOUR opinion, and I certainly can't blame the manager for seeking out favours from old clubs (WBA for Harper and Boro for Chapman) higher level loans to support a squad dropping 12 players over the summer. Especially a young one (probably on cheap loan wages/fee) who can play several positions. Especially since he has already said he had hardly any time to prepare and hardly any real transfer advice from the club he could work with. If you've got an issue with that, this is not the thread, there is already a plethora of TM threads to utilise for that discussion.

Nuttall's goals ARE IN THE RESERVES. How difficult is it to understand this, against other u23 defences and youth teams that don't have the luxuries we have at that level. How many teams he has bagged against, have a category 1 academy to support their backup ranks? Antonsson, who (thanks meadows for the analogy) often looks not that bad, but not that good! In flashes he's looked the part, but at times his final ball, pass or shot has been poor. He has therefore had a "level of impact", why this needs explaining is beyond me. Do I want/expect more from him? Again, a different debate.

Gladwin...He was terrible against Burnley... I think that probably sums up why less than 5 games is enough to completely write a professional footballer off. Again, keep repeating yourself, and I will keep repeating myself, the judgement is out on Gladwin, and until he is given a full crack at the whip, I won't be taken the easy route and simply writing him off.

You replied suggesting I couldn't be any more "smarmy" - that is the definition of replying to the poster and not the content, so don't give me the "holier than thou" crap. You waxed on about JL as if it made any sense, but it was a contradiction from my point of view - deal with that opinion or simply do not post it if you cannot accept that some responses might not come from the same perspective. The quoted post was also the first post to move the topic away from the discussion and onto a the posters or a personality clash - ergo you instigated this nonsense, and then went on to compound it by bringing up issues between myself and other posters. Tomphil is big and ugly enough to take the joshing, just like I am. If you look back - the "Melania Trump" quip was a reply to a one line dismissive post that had a similar tongue in cheek element.

I tire of this. I really do. There is a simple thing to understand here - I cannot fathom the furore about a young strikers lack of inclusion, when we've got ample choices in front of him. I felt as if we may have seen more points, we might've seen more risks with kids. What is so bloody hard to accept about that?

Are you saying Nuttall needs longer in the under 23's? If so how long before he gets a chance if he carries on with his current strike rate? If we lose two strikers to injury or suspension then he would have to include him in the squad and potentially play him. No issues with age or lack of experience then I imagine.

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, arbitro said:

Are you saying Nuttall needs longer in the under 23's? If so how long before he gets a chance if he carries on with his current strike rate? If we lose two strikers to injury or suspension then he would have to include him in the squad and potentially play him. No issues with age or lack of experience then I imagine.

No choice then. I also think we will see him sooner than later if the current crop carry on misfiring.

[Gav]

1 hour ago, Mercer said:

Anyone remember Norman Whiteside becoming the youngest player then ever to appear in the World Cup in Spain in 1982 after only just turning 17 years of age !  After the World Cup, he started the season leading United's attack !

I think Mowbray is so sickening and galling.  His attitude to our young players is, IMV, beyond the pale.  Sooner we get rid of the idiot, the better.

Really Mercer? is that really you?

You think he's sickening and galling because he's so far refused to play a young lad that plays for a 3rd division under 23's dev team 

Have a word with yourself, you should know better.

 

[Stuart]

Forget all the straw man arguments, a guy with THIS record is keeping Nuttall off the Rovers bench... “How difficult is it to understand this?”   

[RV Blue]

Just now, Stuart said:

Forget all the straw man arguments, a guy with THIS record is keeping Nuttall off the Rovers bench... “How difficult is it to understand this?”   

Non-league journey man for 4 years of his career ?

[Skiptonrover]

Looks to me 4 yrs more experience at a current higher level or roundabouts the same, the goal stats are nothing to shout about apart from ST. Not sure if this is supposed to help joes case