[Archived] Has a date been agreed for supporters consultation meeting

[mhead]

Send Biz a booklet Lennie!

I thought the clincher was when Steve Kean's Contract rewarded him for 2 relegations(750k for Champs to League 1)

And Colin confirmed that we were the Club that was out of control(or was that the judge at Berg's law-suit or both episodes?)

So much evidence and so little time.

[JBiz]

Just now, mhead said:

Send Biz a booklet Lennie!I

What on? 

[mhead]

Just now, Biz said:

What on? 

Rest your case Lennie

[JBiz]

Just now, mhead said:

Rest your case Lennie

Rather than playing games, just say what you're on about. 

 

[AllRoverAsia]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

Didn't help much, since it's still completely missing the point.

You've every reason to believe it to be unfounded optimism but there is a big difference between misplaced hope, and making things up. 

I know you know this, but I know you'd rather carry on churning out arguments (like many people here) because of a stubbornness or persona agenda with those responsible for the content. 

I think it says a lot about you, if you'd rather tolerate "I think he's been dropped because of his agent" without a semblance of evidence, as opposed to "our target is promotion"..

Unless I'm forcibly removed from the website, which might be the choice of a few people, I'll never stop pointing out this troublemaking nonsense. Like it or lump it. 

Meanwhile, and to quote "bore off".

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 minute ago, Biz said:

What on? 

I guess he means "100,000,000 Holes -How well do you know the story of Blackburn Rovers since Venky's takeover in 2010?" You have probably seen it. 

Anyway, it is a little summary of all the "goings on" with sources, references and quotes etc. It was produced by an anonymous well wisher, who left it on a pen drive for the EWMC meeting. People raised a collection in order to re-print and distribute for free. There are still some left in The Fox and I have a few in my cupboard.

Obviously, more "events" have happened since...

I can source a copy, if you haven't seen it.

[JBiz]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

I guess he means "100,000,000 Holes -How well do you know the story of Blackburn Rovers since Venky's takeover in 2010?" You have probably seen it. 

Anyway, it is a little summary of all the "goings on" with sources, references and quotes etc. It was produced by an anonymous well wisher, who left it on a pen drive for the EWMC meeting. People raised a collection in order to re-print and distribute for free. There are still some left in The Fox and I have a few in my cupboard.

Obviously, more "events" have happened since...

I can source a copy, if you haven't seen it.

I am well aware of most of the rumours and/or public knowledge of the last 7 years. I am pretty sure I have a digital copy of that fanzine, if not I remember reading it.

I think the wires have been crossed here. ARA made reference to an optimistic quote attributed to TM as being fantasy (in reference to my criticism in another thread of JAL and his "musings") I pointed out the difference between made up rumours and optimism. He continued to fan the flames and you joined in.

At no point have I ever defended any of those decisions, my overall theory for them taking place differs from others (I fall in the camp of thinking the billionaires are somewhat victims, although not worthy of any pity because of their own pride, ignorance and sheer stupidity) but you and Mhead must be mistaken if you think that I am not aware and/or in denial about the absolute negligence the owners have brought.

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

2 minutes ago, Biz said:

I am well aware of most of the rumours and/or public knowledge of the last 7 years. I am pretty sure I have a digital copy of that fanzine, if not I remember reading it.

I think the wires have been crossed here. ARA made reference to an optimistic quote attributed to TM as being fantasy (in reference to my criticism in another thread of JAL and his "musings") I pointed out the difference between made up rumours and optimism. He continued to fan the flames and you joined in.

At no point have I ever defended any of those decisions, my overall theory for them taking place differs from others (I fall in the camp of thinking the billionaires are somewhat victims, although not worthy of any pity because of their own pride, ignorance and sheer stupidity) but you and Mhead must be mistaken if you think that I am not aware and/or in denial about the absolute negligence the owners have brought.

 

I made no assumption of your awareness. I was merely responding to your request to clarify.

[JBiz]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

I made no assumption of your awareness. I was merely responding to your request to clarify.

No worries. It seemed irrelevant to mention it @mhead

[Boz]

What's with this 'victim' nonsense?

Surely the point of these meetings is to share with customers or stakeholders information appertaining to events that have occurred and perhaps may occur in the future. With a degree of accountability too, which if ultimately this is the shareholders, then it's they who keep shooting themselves in the foot.

Pointless for MC or TM to pontificate about the appointment of Coyle, it requires the shadow director (who by the sounds of it was responsible for listening to 'advise') or his appointed trustees to come out and hold their hands up and admit to such a poor decision? They've no intention of doing so about this, nor many of their other plentiful decision disasters and neither have their lakies, so with respect to learning from mistakes it will be repeated ad infinitum, definition of insanity anyone? 

Feel free to go to a TM Q&A session, very enjoyable, but let's not confuse this with a Supporters' Consultation Meeting. 

[Leonard Venkhater]

10 minutes ago, Boz said:

What's with this 'victim' nonsense?

Surely the point of these meetings is to share with customers or stakeholders information appertaining to events that have occurred and perhaps may occur in the future. With a degree of accountability too, which if ultimately this is the shareholders, then it's they who keep shooting themselves in the foot.

Pointless for MC or TM to pontificate about the appointment of Coyle, it requires the shadow director (who by the sounds of it was responsible for listening to 'advise') or his appointed trustees to come out and hold their hands up and admit to such a poor decision? They've no intention of doing so about this, nor many of their other plentiful decision disasters and neither have their lakies, so with respect to learning from mistakes it will be repeated ad infinitum, definition of insanity anyone? 

Feel free to go to a TM Q&A session, very enjoyable, but let's not confuse this with a Supporters' Consultation Meeting. 

This was a crucial,concerning( farcical) decision that led directly to the club's demotion. In the Suppporters' Consultation Meeting  there was a total refusal to engage with questions around this decision.

How can this be acceptable?

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, AllRoverAsia said:

You need therapy.

Meanwhile, and to quote "bore off".

Everyone makes everything up according to him.

This is the guy who said the same about Wharton re his contract situation then when it was pointed out by one or two close to the club posters on here that his contract situation DID appear to be an issue he then turned around and said the player himself was making it up to save face because he wasn't being picked !!!

You have a choice, bang your head on his wall of denial constantly or hit ignore, I did, you'll feel cleansed

[lraC]

6 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

This was a crucial,concerning( farcical) decision that led directly to the club's demotion. In the Suppporters' Consultation Meeting  there was a total refusal to engage with questions around this decision.

How can this be acceptable?

It could be argued that this decision was the worst decision made in almost 40 years, as it brought us to the third tier for the first time, since that period. Given that Cheston refused to answer the question, in a meeting that was called a supporters consultation meeting, perhaps the title of the future meetings needs to be changed. How about, a meeting, were the club, will refuse to answer the most important qurstions. Hoe they can get away with this is beyond me and perhaps we should all badger the club to answer this most relevant of questions.

Has anyone brought this to the attention of the wider media?

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, tomphil said:

Everyone makes everything up according to him.

This is the guy who said the same about Wharton re his contract situation then when it was pointed out by one or two close to the club posters on here that his contract situation DID appear to be an issue he then turned around and said the player himself was making it up to save face because he wasn't being picked !!!

You have a choice, bang your head on his wall of denial constantly or hit ignore, I did, you'll feel cleansed

The same Wharton who'd been ignored this season because of his contract? The same lad who then goes and signs a new contract? Come on Phil, if you're using an example why not try and explain why the ownership would purposely drag a club down two divisions, since you've spent enough time surmising it.

For someone who purports to be ignoring my posts, you don't half spend a lot of time telling posters why. 

[MCMC1875]

1 hour ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

I guess he means "100,000,000 Holes -How well do you know the story of Blackburn Rovers since Venky's takeover in 2010?" You have probably seen it. 

Anyway, it is a little summary of all the "goings on" with sources, references and quotes etc. It was produced by an anonymous well wisher, who left it on a pen drive for the EWMC meeting. People raised a collection in order to re-print and distribute for free. There are still some left in The Fox and I have a few in my cupboard.

Obviously, more "events" have happened since...

I can source a copy, if you haven't seen it.

http://venkysout.com/100000000-holes/

[lraC]

I have pasted below, a statement from the EFL website, relating to it's member clubs consulting with it's supporters and what is expected of the club. Perhaps, if enough of us E Mail the EFL to point out our dissatisfaction, something, will be done about it. The E Mail address is [email protected]

 

The EFL is committed to regular consultation with supporters and stakeholders within the game.

We are at the heart of progressive debate and engaging with all our stakeholders is key to positively develop our competitions as a whole. We are also committed to enhancing the consultative reach of our members among their fanbases and local communities, though effective supporter dialogue and EFL Trust projects.

In June 2016, following the Government’s Expert Working Group on Supporter Ownership & Engagement (EWG), in which the EFL played an active role, clubs introduced new regulations requiring clubs to engage with their supporters in a structured and regular manner.  Clubs are required to meet with a representative group of supporters at least twice a season to discuss significant issues relating to the club.  The framework for each club’s specific consultation strategy is to be documented within its customer charter.  For its part, the EFL will meet with the supporter organisations at a national level and club groups on an ad hoc basis whenever needed.

The EFL continues to foster a good working relationship with other footballing bodies which include the Football Association, the Premier League, the National League, the Professional Footballers Association, the League Managers Association and the European Professional Football Leagues. The EFL also consults at national level with the Football Supporters' Federation, Supporters Direct and Level Playing Field (formerly the National Association of Disabled Supporters), contributing to discussion and responding to issues in order to improve supporters’ experience and enjoyment of the game.

The EFL also has representation on the Kick it Out Professional Game Guidance Group and continues to develop ways to consult with other football bodies and Government in line with key issues that affect the game.

Supporter Liaison

The EFL and its clubs set out commitments to supporters within the Supporter Liaison Officer and Supporter Engagement regulations. EFL regulations require clubs to appoint a Supporter Liaison Officer (SLO). Their role is principally to ensure proper and constructive discourse between a club and its supporters. Working with both Supporters Direct and the Football Supporters’ Federation, the EFL provides guidance and support for all member clubs and their SLOs, to encourage greater consultation and engagement with all stakeholders across the game.

 

[Hasta]

6 hours ago, Biz said:

 

Secondly, when taking that into account - the culpability and/or blame falls directly at the feet off the owners. Their lackadaisical approach is the top and bottom of our problems. Ofcourse we could have discussions all day long about the difference Coyle made, or the knock on of having 7 managers in 5 years, the impact of 10+ million in pay offs, contract releases and the selling off key players to pay bills. The "guilty parties" are the Raos and their incessant need to run the club personally with "advice" and without the experience, are you seriously expecting them to sack themselves? Is that the Q we should be asking? Or, lets suggest they choose to axe all coaching staff and management.. do you expect their process to bring the right replacements in? It's not acceptance, or ignorance, it's called being realistic.

This is the scenario. I have respect for those who chose to disengage completely, and I can understand why. I have no respect for those who wish to criticise those who still wish to engage though. For all the past ridiculous decisions, mistakes and downright criminal mismanagement, the actual future, ergo the decisions made NOW, that impact that, are more important that who advised them to hire Coyle.

 

 

 

 

But how are you going to find out about the decisions made NOW and their impact because you already admit the Rao's and their advisors are calling the shots and at fault?  Tony can say he may want new bodies in during January. Tony can say he expects to be sacked should we not get promotion. It's irrelevant because he has no idea what the Rao's , or whoever they entrust to make key decisions, will do.

Whatever Cheston says is completely irrelevant because it is now proven that what he said before the Coyle interview process, and what he said after it, was not true because it was nothing to do with him. "All done in Pune, not my fault Guv".  

People think the meetings are a good idea because they give fans a chance to hear what the manager says and ask a few questions. It's like a fans forum meeting with the manager but made public. That's fine but they might as well rebrand it as "An evening with Tony Mowbray" and throw some free spud pie in.

However in order to "discuss significant issues with the club", as the guidelines from the EFL state, they are pointless because the two people facing the questions can't answer them.

[Baz]

15 minutes ago, Hasta said:

But how are you going to find out about the decisions made NOW and their impact because you already admit the Rao's and their advisors are calling the shots and at fault?  Tony can say he may want new bodies in during January. Tony can say he expects to be sacked should we not get promotion. It's irrelevant because he has no idea what the Rao's , or whoever they entrust to make key decisions, will do.

Whatever Cheston says is completely irrelevant because it is now proven that what he said before the Coyle interview process, and what he said after it, was not true because it was nothing to do with him. "All done in Pune, not my fault Guv".  

People think the meetings are a good idea because they give fans a chance to hear what the manager says and ask a few questions. It's like a fans forum meeting with the manager but made public. That's fine but they might as well rebrand it as "An evening with Tony Mowbray" and throw some free spud pie in.

However in order to "discuss significant issues with the club", as the guidelines from the EFL state, they are pointless because the two people facing the questions can't answer them.

I understand why people want to know why and by who Coyle was chosen.

I understand why people want to discuss management structure, plans etc with the club.

However as the EFL aren't even forcing the club to minute the meeting, it's just another tick-box exercise for the club, and we are allowing this to happen. The owners are pretty consistent in keeping things under wraps, and will only put up a front man who cant answer the questions. If people aren't happy about what happened they need to complain to the EFL and the sports minister, and media if need be. If Cheston isn't able to answer a question, then the answer should be requested in writing from the club, with the authorities notified if this doesn't happen. 

[JBiz]

29 minutes ago, Hasta said:

But how are you going to find out about the decisions made NOW and their impact because you already admit the Rao's and their advisors are calling the shots and at fault?  Tony can say he may want new bodies in during January. Tony can say he expects to be sacked should we not get promotion. It's irrelevant because he has no idea what the Rao's , or whoever they entrust to make key decisions, will do.

Whatever Cheston says is completely irrelevant because it is now proven that what he said before the Coyle interview process, and what he said after it, was not true because it was nothing to do with him. "All done in Pune, not my fault Guv".  

People think the meetings are a good idea because they give fans a chance to hear what the manager says and ask a few questions. It's like a fans forum meeting with the manager but made public. That's fine but they might as well rebrand it as "An evening with Tony Mowbray" and throw some free spud pie in.

However in order to "discuss significant issues with the club", as the guidelines from the EFL state, they are pointless because the two people facing the questions can't answer them.

I agree that this could and should (by rules) be improved, whether it be by getting someone from the family in the room or something akin to what Baz said, whereby putting a set of questions forward to be answered.

Even in current format, it's a sight better than it was previously, even if there is still a way to go. Engaging with it and feeding issues back to the EFL is positive imo.

[darrenrover]

It strikes me many are still going round in circles. What's the point? We have all hypothesised what's gone on and are probably bang on the money and it stinks.

We've waited 7 years for someone somewhere to spill the beans and as time goes by, I guess it becomes less likely that anyone will.

Why as supporters are we still intent on knocking spots off one another?

It's not a case of just moving on, I can't do that either but FFS, let's get back to what we were, whether we are sh1t or not.

WE Are The Rovers!

[47er]

7 hours ago, Biz said:

Great content.

unlike 'bore off'.

[glen9mullan]

I went to the first meeting against my better judgement and have declined to attend either since.

I have no appetite to become a statistic in a tick box exercise.

Why we are still entertaining a jester court, with no power, no ideas, no clues and in most cases know less about our club than you or I is beyond me?

Facts are my only interest and the only facts that matters at present is we are in league 1, whilst at any minute could have the rug pulled by absent owners.

Anything within Ewood is irrelevant, There are child minders with more power or influence.

As supporters we have gone backwards rapidly, lost any momentum or desire to fight, whilst those responsible have either ridden off into the sunset, or are sleeping easily knowing the stakes have never been more in their favour than they are today.

[Athlete]

5 hours ago, glen9mullan said:

I went to the first meeting against my better judgement and have declined to attend either since.

I have no appetite to become a statistic in a tick box exercise.

Why we are still entertaining a jester court, with no power, no ideas, no clues and in most cases know less about our club than you or I is beyond me?

Facts are my only interest and the only facts that matters at present is we are in league 1, whilst at any minute could have the rug pulled by absent owners.

Anything within Ewood is irrelevant, There are child minders with more power or influence.

As supporters we have gone backwards rapidly, lost any momentum or desire to fight, whilst those responsible have either ridden off into the sunset, or are sleeping easily knowing the stakes have never been more in their favour than they are today.

Well said Glenn... Yet some on here don't seem to get the facts nor do they want to believe them 

[philipl]

Biz, not rumours, hard fact.

If you want to go into the rumours, even you would be left aghast.

I would still encourage the fans to attend these consultations- it forces the owners and local representatives at least to think through answers to the fans' concerns.

 

[JBiz]

51 minutes ago, philipl said:

Biz, not rumours, hard fact.

If you want to go into the rumours, even you would be left aghast.

I would still encourage the fans to attend these consultations- it forces the owners and local representatives at least to think through answers to the fans' concerns.

 

 

16 hours ago, Biz said:

I am well aware of most of the rumours and/or public knowledge of the last 7 years.

As for the meetings, I agree - despite some calling it a waste of time, I think it is worthwhile.