[Archived] Has a date been agreed for supporters consultation meeting

[mhead]

Love him or loathe him....you have to read what SuhailSlayer says and agree with most of it.

We must not start getting used to being in League 1. We were vandalised to get there.

[Leonard Venkhater]

18 minutes ago, mhead said:

Love him or loathe him....you have to read what SuhailSlayer says and agree with most of it.

We must not start getting used to being in League 1. We were vandalised to get there.

I think his analysis is good.He is very clear.

Your last two sentences could be a strap line for a new campaign!

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, Suhail Slayer said:

The problem is that Tony "likeable" Mowbray has given an air of hope amongst supporters. Some would call it delusional but we will find out in due course.

Hope that he will get us back up this season in spite of the owners and nobody wanting yet another manager to come in.

Stability & Progress please. So the momentum and desire to fight has been temporarily replaced by the realisation we are in division 3 and we need to let Tony get on with the job and hope he walks the talk.

 

However, Tony admitted he won't be here at the end of the season if he fails to get us promoted.

Mike also said how they have managed to avoid a slash and burn approach for this season to try to keep the infrastructure & get us back up.

It is a one season gamble. Now or never. It needs to be allowed to play out.

Tony admitted the genius "Master plan" is to get to the PL so Sky can give Venkys their money back. Problem is it won't happen. It's about as pie in the sky as the Ronaldinho transfer.

 

Tony won't get us promoted.

Not that any of us want another manager merry go round but the alternative will be a few years of mid table stability in division 3 under TM.

That will be the worst case scenario. 

We have been here before ?! As we end up in division 4 the owners statement reads commitment to the club and getting us straight back up.... 

Oh well some new grounds to visit. Get behind the lads FFS. The past is the past. They were just badly advised.

 

Only 6 months ago the (then) Messiah, Paul Senior, was telling us all how we wouldn't go down. It was the gospel according to Paul when he went into the box and declared to a fan that "Ba will be done by Monday".

Then he was gone in a flash of smoke and mirrors leaving only the nasty wiff of bullsheet as a reminder he was ever real.

 

Now we have the (new) Messiah, Tony Mowbray, telling us how we are just waiting patiently in the peloton for the sprint finish and ready to "bounce through the Championship".

 

FOV

RTID

NAPM

Good analysis imo...

I am starting to see TM, as less of a Messiah and more of a pain control/ distraction technique. I nearly wrote sedative, but that would wrongly imply that he is boring.

The "problem" in this context is that it is hard not to want to listen to TM's enthusiasm and passion for the game.So it is a bit bit like giving us an ice cream....... during an earthquake!

 

[Dreams of 1995]

I find it odd that there's an argument against fans wanting 'someone to blame'. With any business when bad decisions are made the shareholders expect, nay demand, that someone is held accountable for the failure. The same can be said for a football club.

To argue that it's a silly vendetta of fans just seeking a 'victim' constantly is plain wrong and clearly a clutch at straws. Somebody has to be held accountable for last season aside from Owen Coyle. The truth of the matter is that the club had Neil Warnock lined up to take over and, at the 11th hour, somebody, somewhere decided that OC was the 'outstanding candidate'. We now sit here 12 months down the line with Cardiff at the top of the Championship and us mid-table in League 1.

Somebody has to be held accountable for that decision. If Vincent bloody Tan can get it right then why can't our illustrious owners? Mike Cheston's tale this year completely contradicts all of his media guff from last summer. Why is it considered such a bad thing to expect his job to be under scrutiny?

[mhead]

47 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I find it odd that there's an argument against fans wanting 'someone to blame'. With any business when bad decisions are made the shareholders expect, nay demand, that someone is held accountable for the failure. The same can be said for a football club.

To argue that it's a silly vendetta of fans just seeking a 'victim' constantly is plain wrong and clearly a clutch at straws. Somebody has to be held accountable for last season aside from Owen Coyle. The truth of the matter is that the club had Neil Warnock lined up to take over and, at the 11th hour, somebody, somewhere decided that OC was the 'outstanding candidate'. We now sit here 12 months down the line with Cardiff at the top of the Championship and us mid-table in League 1.

Somebody has to be held accountable for that decision. If Vincent bloody Tan can get it right then why can't our illustrious owners? Mike Cheston's tale this year completely contradicts all of his media guff from last summer. Why is it considered such a bad thing to expect his job to be under scrutiny?

100,000,000 +

[JHRover]

1 hour ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I find it odd that there's an argument against fans wanting 'someone to blame'. With any business when bad decisions are made the shareholders expect, nay demand, that someone is held accountable for the failure. The same can be said for a football club.

To argue that it's a silly vendetta of fans just seeking a 'victim' constantly is plain wrong and clearly a clutch at straws. Somebody has to be held accountable for last season aside from Owen Coyle. The truth of the matter is that the club had Neil Warnock lined up to take over and, at the 11th hour, somebody, somewhere decided that OC was the 'outstanding candidate'. We now sit here 12 months down the line with Cardiff at the top of the Championship and us mid-table in League 1.

Somebody has to be held accountable for that decision. If Vincent bloody Tan can get it right then why can't our illustrious owners? Mike Cheston's tale this year completely contradicts all of his media guff from last summer. Why is it considered such a bad thing to expect his job to be under scrutiny?

There seems to once again be a brush it all under the carpet attempt from the owners/club. Lets just pretend it never happened. In life you have to learn from past mistakes to ensure they don't happen again. I've seen no evidence that these owners are even aware of our newfound league status, or hold anyone responsible for it, or have learnt any lessons from it, which naturally leads to the expectation that it could quite easily repeat itself in the coming months/years. What's stopping another Coyle, or Kean, rocking up? Mowbray might be the flavour of the month with the owners but so was Bowyer until someone somewhere had a word and he was down the road. Who do they take advice off? Who is talking to them? Answers we don't know but I expect the same people who launched Coyle into the hotseat.

As we've seen in recent months they now seem to be throwing their weight behind Mowbray for the time being seemingly on the basis of one meeting with him in May/June. How long that lasts is anyone's guess. Kean got 2 years despite protests and relegation because they liked him, Bowyer got 2 years despite missing out on promotion because they liked him, so Mowbray might get the same even if we miss out.

I've nothing against Mowbray at all but what's the back up plan if he doesn't work out? Start from scratch again with a less capable manager with no support around him expected to sort everything out on his own?

I enjoyed listening to Mowbray's speech on Thursday, but a lot of his comments about the scouting structure etc. should already be in place and should remain in place regardless of who sits in the dugout. That is how you ensure continuity in the event you have to remove a manager and replace him when results aren't up to scratch. When you leave a manager to run the whole show the whole show needs rebuilding or altering when the manager departs.

[RoverCanada]

20 hours ago, mhead said:

I thought the clincher was when Steve Kean's Contract rewarded him for 2 relegations(750k for Champs to League 1)

I think you're referring to the 'loyalty bonus' component. Not sure of the terms of such clauses, but they're pretty typical if a manager has stuck around for 3 years+, or whatever it was. I presume (slash hope) that bonus would've been null if Kean had been dismissed with cause (i.e. terrible performance) should we have again been relegated (when that POS should've been fired after the first relegation, or before that... or never hired at all... gah)

I went through that purported contract a while back (I can dig up the post if you'd like), and Kean was always set to be paid more if he kept us in the Premier League. He certainly would've been a well compensated had he stuck it through the whole contract, but he was not actually incentivised to get relegated, at least going by what was in the contract relative to if he had kept us up.

(Not that I'm at all defending giving Kean a new contract in the first place, nor making him manager at all, but there was a willful misreading of that contract's alleged terms. It's not the smoking gun some hope it is. For that we'd need, say, tangible proof of his SEM links... which I'm not holding out hope for... Unless there's some document out there I haven't seen)

And my apologies for dragging up bad memories of that tosser...

[DE.]

Kean basically wrote his own contract so you can be assured he was onto a winner no matter what for as long as he was here.

Couldn't agree more with the sentiment that we shouldn't get used to being in League 1, but the same was said when we got relegated from the PL and soon enough the old "we're at our level" comments appeared and people eventually accepted finishing mid-table with a fleeting hope of the playoffs as good enough.

[philipl]

3 hours ago, DE. said:

Kean basically wrote his own contract so you can be assured he was onto a winner no matter what for as long as he was here.

Couldn't agree more with the sentiment that we shouldn't get used to being in League 1, but the same was said when we got relegated from the PL and soon enough the old "we're at our level" comments appeared and people eventually accepted finishing mid-table with a fleeting hope of the playoffs as good enough.

Kean had his own contract written for him and signed both sides for him...

[tomphil]

It was the double wages that was the most interesting thing on there, as for the bonuses he might not have been compensated better for taking us down but neither did it discourage such an act.

 

[Mike E]

Can't remember who said it on here, but it struck a chord with me:

The decision to appoint Owen Coyle led to our relegation to League One in the 2016/17 season, a league we haven't competed in since 1979/80.

Ergo, appointing Coyle is the single worst decision made at our club in 37 years (around a quarter of our whole history)!

SOMEONE must be held accountable for that.

[MCMC1875]

3 hours ago, Mike E said:

Can't remember who said it on here, but it struck a chord with me:

The decision to appoint Owen Coyle led to our relegation to League One in the 2016/17 season, a league we haven't competed in since 1979/80.

Ergo, appointing Coyle is the single worst decision made at our club in 37 years (around a quarter of our whole history)!

SOMEONE must be held accountable for that.

It was lraC.

[blueboy3333]

11 hours ago, mhead said:

Love him or loathe him....you have to read what SuhailSlayer says and agree with most of it.

We must not start getting used to being in League 1. We were vandalised to get there.

He said 'Tony won't get us promoted'. How does he know?

[Baz]

As much Im happy that Elliott Bennett is a good human, and a decent footballer, personally I'd like some response from the owners about the recent statements made on twitter by Nick Harris. 

Cheston isn't stupid enough to comment, and to be fair wasn't around at the time. Seeing as only the people still around are the owners, maybe they could confirm in writing to the fans if Nick Harris' statement 're Kentaro and Jerome Anderson are correct, or lies.

 

 

[Hasta]

On 10/10/2017 at 12:09, RoverCanada said:

 

I went through that purported contract a while back (I can dig up the post if you'd like), and Kean was always set to be paid more if he kept us in the Premier League. He certainly would've been a well compensated had he stuck it through the whole contract, but he was not actually incentivised to get relegated, at least going by what was in the contract relative to if he had kept us up.

(Not that I'm at all defending giving Kean a new contract in the first place, nor making him manager at all, but there was a willful misreading of that contract's alleged terms. It's not the smoking gun some hope it is. For that we'd need, say, tangible proof of his SEM links... which I'm not holding out hope for... Unless there's some document out there I haven't seen)

And my apologies for dragging up bad memories of that tosser...

 

The problem with Keans contract was that it meant that he could wheel out the old guard, bring in the likes of Myles and co. and not have to worry about relegation as it was incredibly well paid. We talk about players contracts having relegation clauses. Kean's had none. He was to be well rewarded over 4 years regardless of what happens. If he kept us in the Premier league was obscene.

Remember this was a rookie unknown. Would any Rovers board member at that time have agreed that contract? No. Did Venkys know anything about football? No.  So who prepared the contract and under FA rules for running clubs, was it legal for them to do so.?

Again this is off memory. Did the contract actually refer to the possibility of us being in League one? I recall that it did. Do you think Mark Hughes, Tony Pulis or Ronald Koeman have contracts which talk about league one.  It is almost like it needed to be in there because the course the club was about to take meant serious chance of relegation.

 

[blueboy3333]

7 hours ago, Baz said:

As much Im happy that Elliott Bennett is a good human, and a decent footballer, personally I'd like some response from the owners about the recent statements made on twitter by Nick Harris. 

Cheston isn't stupid enough to comment, and to be fair wasn't around at the time. Seeing as only the people still around are the owners, maybe they could confirm in writing to the fans if Nick Harris' statement 're Kentaro and Jerome Anderson are correct, or lies.

 

 

After all the years of protesting quite how the FA were not splashed all over the pages of the national papers for allowing one of their commercial partners to illegally run a football club under their (FA) jurisdiction is baffling. Harris has laid it all out there.

[Athlete]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

After all the years of protesting quite how the FA were not splashed all over the pages of the national papers for allowing one of their commercial partners to illegally run a football club under their (FA) jurisdiction is baffling. Harris has laid it all out there.

Yet still certain posters on here do not want to believe it and neither do some of our fan base... Get behind the lads, they were badly advised etc etc those fans annoy me as much as venkys and their co-horts 

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, Athlete said:

Yet still certain posters on here do not want to believe it and neither do some of our fan base... Get behind the lads, they were badly advised etc etc those fans annoy me as much as venkys and their co-horts 

Did you watch the video? The Nick Harris said the owners paid a company to find them a club, at the same time our old owners paid the same agency money to sell it. Using what Harris says, you can also see how the owners had been advised about leaving the sports agency to run the club... amongst other conflicts of interest!

So, I'd call that bad advice personally. I'd also call some fans annoying, but I wouldn't compare those I disagree with, with the people responsible for ruining our club.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Athlete said:

Yet still certain posters on here do not want to believe it and neither do some of our fan base... Get behind the lads, they were badly advised etc etc those fans annoy me as much as venkys and their co-horts 

I must annoy you then. I  'get behind the lads' but still realise that the club has been shafted. Somehow getting 'behind the lads' has become a pejorative.

What annoys me is the NAPM BS that has been unimaginatively nicked off Blackpool and which is totally irrelevant to what has gone on at Ewood. The owners are/were literally stealing money out of the club on the coast, that hasn't happened here. The opposite has happened. They've had to pump money in to cover their breathtaking incompetence and possible FA rule breaking re 3rd party ownership of clubs and players. That is conveniently ignored. As is the fact that the debt is theirs. What really makes me chuckle is the asset-stripping conspiracies by people who don't know what asset-stripping is. If it was asset-stripping Venky's would be long gone.

...and if anyone replies to this with 'venky-lover' then quite frankly you should have your brain removed as it's wasted on you.

[Athlete]

1 minute ago, Biz said:

Did you watch the video? The Nick Harris said the owners paid a company to find them a club, at the same time our old owners paid the same agency money to sell it. Using what Harris says, you can also see how the owners had been advised about leaving the sports agency to run the club... amongst other conflicts of interest!

So, I'd call that bad advice personally. I'd also call some fans annoying, but I wouldn't compare those I disagree with, with the people responsible for ruining our club.

Quelle surprise you'd pop up in their defense 

If you have ever worked in corporate business you'd know you don't take bad advice... Only if you are not bothered about a certain entity and use that entity for another purpose so to speak 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Athlete said:

If you have ever worked in corporate business you'd know you don't take bad advice

This totally ignores the fact that Venky's didn't have a clue they were receiving bad advice because they didn't know what they were getting in to, or anything about the 'product'. They trusted their 'advisers'. That was their first mistake.

[Athlete]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I must annoy you then. I  'get behind the lads' but still realise that the club has been shafted. Somehow getting 'behind the lads' has become a pejorative.

What annoys me is the NAPM BS that has been unimaginatively nicked off Blackpool and which is totally irrelevant to what has gone on at Ewood. The owners are/were literally stealing money out of the club on the coast, that hasn't happened here. The opposite has happened. They've had to pump money in to cover their breathtaking incompetence and possible FA rule breaking re 3rd party ownership of clubs and players. That is conveniently ignored. As is the fact that the debt is theirs. What really makes me chuckle is the asset-stripping conspiracies by people who don't know what asset-stripping is. If it was asset-stripping Venky's would be long gone.

...and if anyone replies to this with 'venky-lover' then quite frankly you should have your brain removed as it's wasted on you.

They are loading the club with debt not pumping money in... How many players have been sold for massive profits under Venkys tenure.. I never mentioned napm or asset stripping.. So decipher for yourself why have venkys got the club because if it was in any other walk of life they'd have walked away awhile ago.. Oh it maybe for the love of the blue and white halves.. As for getting the behind the lads the fans have always done..  oh wait a minute where as that got us ??? 

[Athlete]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

This totally ignores the fact that Venky's didn't have a clue they were receiving bad advice because they didn't know what they were getting in to, or anything about the 'product'. They trusted their 'advisers'. That was their first mistake.

The point I'm making is where they actually bothered.. If you make a mistake at corporate level you don't carry on making those mistakes unless it does not matter or it's irrelevant for what you've actually got the vehicle for 

But let's not forget that the Phil Jones transfer fee virtually paid for what was given for the club in the first place... But the purchase price went on the debt 

[JBiz]

1 minute ago, Athlete said:

They are loading the club with debt not pumping money in... 

How does that work when 95% of the debt is money the club owes to their company/family?

 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Athlete said:

They are loading the club with debt not pumping money in... How many players have been sold for massive profits under Venkys tenure.. I never mentioned napm or asset stripping.. So decipher for yourself why have venkys got the club because if it was in any other walk of life they'd have walked away awhile ago.. Oh it maybe for the love of the blue and white halves.. As for getting the behind the lads the fans have always done..  oh wait a minute where as that got us ??? 

So Cheston was lying when he said the debt was owned by Venky's rather than Rovers? Unfortunately, when people had the chance to question him at the meeting on that stuff and get clarification on if the debt currently owned by Venky's could at any time be transferred on to the clubs books(did they?) they instead started banging on about Coyle instead.