[Archived] Has a date been agreed for supporters consultation meeting

[Neal]

On 2017-10-10 at 10:21, Dreams of 1995 said:

I find it odd that there's an argument against fans wanting 'someone to blame'. With any business when bad decisions are made the shareholders expect, nay demand, that someone is held accountable for the failure. The same can be said for a football club.

To argue that it's a silly vendetta of fans just seeking a 'victim' constantly is plain wrong and clearly a clutch at straws. Somebody has to be held accountable for last season aside from Owen Coyle. The truth of the matter is that the club had Neil Warnock lined up to take over and, at the 11th hour, somebody, somewhere decided that OC was the 'outstanding candidate'. We now sit here 12 months down the line with Cardiff at the top of the Championship and us mid-table in League 1.

Somebody has to be held accountable for that decision. If Vincent bloody Tan can get it right then why can't our illustrious owners? Mike Cheston's tale this year completely contradicts all of his media guff from last summer. Why is it considered such a bad thing to expect his job to be under scrutiny?

 

Yeah but mate... The past is the past, we were @#/? in the 80's, calling out Mike Cheston is bullying, don't fight for your club because protesting achieves nothing, we are where we are, they've invested, we're fighting for promotion (in league 1), everyone else just moans, there's no pleasing some people, as long as they keep quiet everything is fine, we need Venkys, the debt is just a fairy tale, just get another manager and make loan signings... We'll be in the prem in no time. 

[JBiz]

45 minutes ago, Neal said:

 

Yeah but mate... The past is the past, we were @#/? in the 80's, calling out Mike Cheston is bullying, don't fight for your club because protesting achieves nothing, we are where we are, they've invested, we're fighting for promotion (in league 1), everyone else just moans, there's no pleasing some people, as long as they keep quiet everything is fine, we need Venkys, the debt is just a fairy tale, just get another manager and make loan signings... We'll be in the prem in no time. 

It makes me wince reading such passive aggressive, banal sarcasm. If you generally think that those who might see things differently to you, think like the quotes above, then perhaps you should rethink your attitude towards other supporters of the club. You come across as someone who's expended all energy for moaning at the owners, thus would rather direct it at fans- who've never been culpable.

Nobody, and I repeat, nobody has ever suggested that the debt is a "fairy tale", nobody has ever suggested things are "just fine", I have respect for those who genuinely cannot face supporting the club in its current incarnation, with the lack of transparency and likely car crash round the corner. 

Why can't you have some respect for those who can?

Whether you like it or not, those still willing to press on and stick it out, will be around to help pick up the pieces, to fight for the club and to help it through the scenario that Vs end up leaving us in.

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

It makes me wince reading such passive aggressive, banal sarcasm. If you generally think that those who might see things differently to you, think like the quotes above, then perhaps you should rethink your attitude towards other supporters of the club. You come across as someone who's expended all energy for moaning at the owners, thus would rather direct it at fans- who've never been culpable.

Nobody, and I repeat, nobody has ever suggested that the debt is a "fairy tale", nobody has ever suggested things are "just fine", I have respect for those who genuinely cannot face supporting the club in its current incarnation, with the lack of transparency and likely car crash round the corner. 

Why can't you have some respect for those who can?

Whether you like it or not, those still willing to press on and stick it out, will be around to help pick up the pieces, to fight for the club and to help it through the scenario that Vs end up leaving us in.

 

My sense is that you and Neal merely represent different ends of the Rovers fans' spectrum.

I think people from both ends have regularly had a go at each other on this site and that doesn't exclude your good self.

But I do think there is something in your analysis that the hiding/absence/of the true culprits makes it more likely that supporters will vent their anger at one another.While supporter conflict can never be good for any club, I also lay that at Venky's door.

I do think we are being played for fools and taken for a ride by like the staged managed sham like the so called consultation meeting.Maybe, there are small-very small- gains like being able to ask the questions and have it as a matter of record that they are not being answered. However, we cannot avoid the fact that our very presence at such a meeting is giving legitimacy to the sham.

And yes, my own analysis is closer to Neal's than to your own. I confess to being frustrated at the apparent lack of fight in our fanbase in the face of such abuse of our much loved club.That is something that I have to try to manage, I guess

[JBiz]

1 hour ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

My sense is that you and Neal merely represent different ends of the Rovers fans' spectrum.

I think people from both ends have regularly had a go at each other on this site and that doesn't exclude your good self.

But I do think there is something in your analysis that the hiding/absence/of the true culprits makes it more likely that supporters will vent their anger at one another.While supporter conflict can never be good for any club, I also lay that at Venky's door.

I do think we are being played for fools and taken for a ride by like the staged managed sham like the so called consultation meeting.Maybe, there are small-very small- gains like being able to ask the questions and have it as a matter of record that they are not being answered. However, we cannot avoid the fact that our very presence at such a meeting is giving legitimacy to the sham.

And yes, my own analysis is closer to Neal's than to your own. I confess to being frustrated at the apparent lack of fight in our fanbase in the face of such abuse of our much loved club.That is something that I have to try to manage, I guess

Fully agree, and I can hold my hand up to admit that I can be especially critical of those who dress a lack of interest as "boycotting" only to return for a big match. I can be rightly criticised also for "taking umbridge" at  the perpetuation of unsubstantiated rumours, but that's just who I am. 

The point overall, it's not worth taking pot shots at each other, as I responded a week ago to you, we are on the same side. Some might be more willing to "move on" if there is such a thing, but empathy should go both ways. 

I have a tonne of respect for the time and effort that Neal and others have put into getting our message across, but that doesn't mean I won't point out where I think remarks are unnecessarily nasty towards fans, and just basically false.

[Dreams of 1995]

Isn't it strange how you consider Neal's remarks as being unnecessarily nasty but not the remarks by our favourite blogger.

I'm still searching out for these nasty remarks by Neal though. 

In summary:

"We were this bad in the *year here*" - has been said

"The past is past" - has been said, and is certainly true.

"Mike Cheston...bullying" - I'm sure it was parsonblue that said something along the lines of this so...has been said.

"protesting achieves nothing" - has been said.

"we are where we are" - is true.

"they've invested" - has been said, by you no less.

"we're fighting for promotion" - has been said.

"everyone moans" - has been said.

"there's no pleasing some" - has been said (see match day topics)

"we need Venkys" - has definitely been said.

"the debt is a fairy tale" - in reference to blueboy and his remarks that the debt is Venkys, and whilst it may come across as an 'occasional lack of tact' on Neal's behalf by claiming it was called a fairy tale, there is definitely substance to the argument that people believe the debt isn't as bad as it really is.

The just get another manager and make loan signings is definitely something I have seen on TheRovers page. Perhaps not reflective of this board.

Overall I don't see much of what Neal said as "nasty" but rather a crude summary of some thoughts expressed on fan boards. Quite like somebody else we know, perhaps, except Neal's is "nasty" and his is a "lack of tact".

 

 

[philipl]

Doyen knocked back in attempt at getting third party player ownership approved- http://www.maltatoday.com.mt/sports/football/81260/brussels_tells_maltabased_doyen_it_will_not_investigate_complaint_on_fifa_ban

Doyen is Kentaro level iffy- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doyen_Group

[JBiz]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Isn't it strange how you consider Neal's remarks as being unnecessarily nasty but not the remarks by our favourite blogger.

Overall I don't see much of what Neal said as "nasty" but rather a crude summary of some thoughts expressed on fan boards. Quite like somebody else we know, perhaps, except Neal's is "nasty" and his is a "lack of tact".

See, I might be completely wrong but you are basically pointing out the exact thing in a different source, from a different angle. 

Whilst the remarks above might not grate you because of perspective, and thus you can analyse and deconstruct them with explanation and justification, wouldn't it be just as easy for me to do the same to Meadows blogs because of perspective? 

There maybe differences in the level of "haranguing" between the two, but as Len clearly states - this is the result of venting towards each other due to the absence of real culprits. There is only one set of people fully culpable, and we all know their names.

What I would like to see is an end to it Dreams, and you can call me a hypocrite for not lambasting "The Blue Eyed Boy" in the same way, but you'd be calling yourself the same thing because of perspective.

[Leonard Venkhater]

8 minutes ago, Biz said:

Fully agree, and I can hold my hand up to admit that I can be especially critical of those who dress a lack of interest as "boycotting" only to return for a big match. I can be rightly criticised also for "taking umbridge" at  the perpetuation of unsubstantiated rumours, but that's just who I am. 

The point overall, it's not worth taking pot shots at each other, as I responded a week ago to you, we are on the same side. Some might be more willing to "move on" if there is such a thing, but empathy should go both ways. 

I have a tonne of respect for the time and effort that Neal and others have put into getting our message across, but that doesn't mean I won't point out where I think remarks are unnecessarily nasty towards fans, and just basically false.

Boycotting v lack of interest?

That is what worries me. Boycotting is such a dangerous strategy, as we all know what happens, once the match habit is broken.

Personally, my own boycott was done in a combination of powerless rage and a sense of NAPM. Of course, I still kicked every ball, listening to Radio Venky's (LOL).

My match habit is finally broken after over 40 years, but I pick my games. I do reserve that right because I won't get a season ticket and I need to stay engaged and what is the point of martyring myself? . However, rest assured I maintained the boycott for the Man Utd game and I was almost ashamed that more Rovers fans didn't boycott the Blackpool game in the previous round. I love to go away.

Like many Rovers fans, I am essentially conflicted. I dearly want Tony to get us promoted, but deep in my heart I know the that the Blackburn Rovers I have followed for most of my life is no more ...this is just a shell.

Meanwhile, I have fallen out of love with football culture and its strange mixture of self righteousness and corruption. You know where the F.A excels ..come down hard on the minor offences, and collude with the really heinous stuff. It stinks.

[JBiz]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

Boycotting v lack of interest?

That is what worries me. Boycotting is such a dangerous strategy, as we all know what happens, once the match habit is broken.

Personally, my own boycott was done in a combination of powerless rage and a sense of NAPM. Of course, I still kicked every ball, listening to Radio Venky's (LOL).

My match habit is finally broken after over 40 years, but I pick my games. I do reserve that right because I won't get a season ticket and I need to stay engaged and what is the point of martyring myself? . However, rest assured I maintained the boycott for the Man Utd game and I was almost ashamed that more Rovers fans didn't boycott the Blackpool game in the previous round. I love to go away.

Like many Rovers fans, I am essentially conflicted. I dearly want Tony to get us promoted, but deep in my heart I know the that the Blackburn Rovers I have followed for most of my life is no more ...this is just a shell.

Meanwhile, I have fallen out of love with football culture and its strange mixture of self righteousness and corruption. You know where the F.A excels ..come down hard on the minor offences, and collude with the really heinous stuff. It stinks.

The stuff that Phillpl posted about Doyen and the process of investment firms is the best example of why I agree on falling out with football culture entirely. It's just business and it's taken something away from the sense (at least for me) we got back in the early days.

Even up to the Big Sam "era" it still felt very much like old times for me, and it's not difficult to understand why everything since then has compounded this feeling towards the club and sport.

[Dreams of 1995]

On 13/10/2017 at 16:14, Biz said:

See, I might be completely wrong but you are basically pointing out the exact thing in a different source, from a different angle. 

Whilst the remarks above might not grate you because of perspective, and thus you can analyse and deconstruct them with explanation and justification, wouldn't it be just as easy for me to do the same to Meadows blogs because of perspective? 

There maybe differences in the level of "haranguing" between the two, but as Len clearly states - this is the result of venting towards each other due to the absence of real culprits. There is only one set of people fully culpable, and we all know their names.

What I would like to see is an end to it Dreams, and you can call me a hypocrite for not lambasting "The Blue Eyed Boy" in the same way, but you'd be calling yourself the same thing because of perspective.

That much is probably true. However, it was you yourself that said there was no such divide in the fan base in an earlier debate we've had. I think it's becoming more and more evident that there is.

The third sentence is definitely true. Their lack of presence is definitely a huge contribution to the division between fans.

I'd probably call up Neal the same way I'd call up anybody else if I truly believed what he said was offensive. Whilst I appreciate your argument about perspective I am still honestly trying to find what could be perceived as particularly nasty; it certainly didn't "grate" me as it may you but it definitely wasn't "nasty".

[47er]

6 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Like many Rovers fans, I am essentially conflicted. I dearly want Tony to get us promoted, but deep in my heart I know the that the Blackburn Rovers I have followed for most of my life is no more ...this is just a shell.

 

Sums it all up for me.

[Crimpshrine]

9 hours ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Boycotting v lack of interest?

Like many Rovers fans, I am essentially conflicted. I dearly want Tony to get us promoted, but deep in my heart I know the that the Blackburn Rovers I have followed for most of my life is no more ...this is just a shell.

'Conflicted' is exactly the right word.

I'm in my second season of boycotting and I get massive cold turkey whenever we play at home. I've started going to work on home match Saturdays to avoid the temptation of nipping down to Ewood at the last minute.  I still go to some away games so I don't think I'll lose the habit - depends if you can pay on the day.

Boycotting would work if everybody did it but obviously that will never happen. However, I feel it's the only option I have available to show some resistance to the people who have turned our club into the 'shell' that you accurately describe. Just a personal choice.

One day they will be gone and we will still be here. I'll be the first person through the turnstile and it will be the best feeling ever. Can't wait to get our Rovers back.

[MCMC1875]

8 hours ago, Crimpshrine said:

'Conflicted' is exactly the right word.

I'm in my second season of boycotting and I get massive cold turkey whenever we play at home. I've started going to work on home match Saturdays to avoid the temptation of nipping down to Ewood at the last minute.  I still go to some away games so I don't think I'll lose the habit - depends if you can pay on the day.

Boycotting would work if everybody did it but obviously that will never happen. However, I feel it's the only option I have available to show some resistance to the people who have turned our club into the 'shell' that you accurately describe. Just a personal choice.

One day they will be gone and we will still be here. I'll be the first person through the turnstile and it will be the best feeling ever. Can't wait to get our Rovers back.

Pay on the day at Wigan I hear. See you for a pint on Wallgate.

[Neal]

21 hours ago, Biz said:

It makes me wince reading such passive aggressive, banal sarcasm. If you generally think that those who might see things differently to you, think like the quotes above, then perhaps you should rethink your attitude towards other supporters of the club.

 

A few things, I have said i do have a certain amount of respect for those who still go and stomach it but one of the reasons (not the main reason) I don't go any longer is because of our own fans, I've explained this many times... Like Crimpshire, away days only if I must. 

I have been told to rethink my attitude towards our fans by many fans like yourself but whilst there remains no fight in them I'll keep saying how I feel, this isn't an attitude it's my general feelings and as abrasive as you might find them, I'm entitled to express them. 

Secondly these were indirect quotes from fans with opposing views to mine... So I don't think THINK they think like that... I KNOW they think like that. 

[JBiz]

4 minutes ago, Neal said:

 

A few things, I have said i do have a certain amount of respect for those who still go and stomach it but one of the reasons (not the main reason) I don't go any longer is because of our own fans, I've explained this many times... Like Crimpshire, away days only if I must. 

I have been told to rethink my attitude towards our fans by many fans like yourself but whilst there remains no fight in them I'll keep saying how I feel, this isn't an attitude it's my general feelings and as abrasive as you might find them, I'm entitled to express them. 

Secondly these were indirect quotes from fans with opposing views to mine... So I don't think THINK they think like that... I KNOW they think like that. 

Nonsense, there is not a single fan who believes the debt is a fairy tale. Find the quote and I'll gladly apologise.

You also don't have to explain NAPM, I'm well aware and understanding of the rationale for that. The problem I seemingly have with lots of your content is this incessant need to needle others for perhaps seeing things slightly differently! 

 

[Neal]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

The problem I seemingly have with lots of your content is this incessant need to needle others for perhaps seeing things slightly differently! 

 

Tough tutties.

[JBiz]

9 minutes ago, Neal said:

 

Tough tutties.

As long as you are prepared to be criticised for it, that's fine with me.

[blueboy3333]

2 hours ago, Neal said:

Secondly these were indirect quotes from fans with opposing views to mine... So I don't think THINK they think like that... I KNOW they think like that. 

You obviously don't KNOW everything because I've never said the debt was a 'fairy tale', nor has anyone else on here.

[Neal]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

As long as you are prepared to be criticised for it, that's fine with me.

Always have been.

[Neal]

1 hour ago, blueboy3333 said:

You obviously don't KNOW everything because I've never said the debt was a 'fairy tale', nor has anyone else on here.

 

This was a commentary about how many supporters act, going on pretending that changing manager and getting a few loan signings sets certain fans back to default and deflects the supporters concern about the big issues at our club.

[tomphil]

2 hours ago, Neal said:

 

This was a commentary about how many supporters act, going on pretending that changing manager and getting a few loan signings sets certain fans back to default and deflects the supporters concern about the big issues at our club.

Window dressing, blame deflection and attention diverting have been alive and thriving at Ewood all throughout Venkys & partners tenure I think any fan would have to be bananas not to see that although at times it is hard to sort the right intentions from the wrong ones, both might have been in equal measure imo.

We only have to look back to Paul Senoir for the most recent I think that was a blatant deflection tactic, no doubt he thought he was here to do a job but they'd no intention of letting him, stay up or down. The one constant besides the Vs & co in all this is that tool in the shadows on his cushy number, he won't want to lose that will he ?

He's the one who needs booting from this club asap.

 

[Leonard Venkhater]

14 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Its actually considered a run-on (and on and on) sentence that defies what good writing should be. Vocab great but if you cannot breathe by the end of a sentence, its not good.

Dylan can do it...and still have enough breath for a harmonica solo!

[J*B]

Thread cleaned up a little, some warning points handed out - let’s keep it on the supporters meeting please folks. If it’s going elsewhere either post on a relevant thread or make a new thread. 

[Athlete]

On 13/10/2017 at 12:54, Biz said:

It makes me wince reading such passive aggressive, banal sarcasm. If you generally think that those who might see things differently to you, think like the quotes above, then perhaps you should rethink your attitude towards other supporters of the club. You come across as someone who's expended all energy for moaning at the owners, thus would rather direct it at fans- who've never been culpable.

Nobody, and I repeat, nobody has ever suggested that the debt is a "fairy tale"

 

Unfortunately quite a few on here don't understand the debt.. It's massive the Boi or whoever won't go for Balaji they'll come for BRFC 

[Leonard Venkhater]

4 hours ago, J*B said:

Thread cleaned up a little, some warning points handed out - let’s keep it on the supporters meeting please folks. If it’s going elsewhere either post on a relevant thread or make a new thread. 

I know there are new volunteers etc, but this is a genuine question. If a post gets removed, does anyone explain why...or does it just er vanish?