[Archived] Rochdale Away

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, 4000Holes said:

Thanks for that Tyrone.  The only thing I would say is that at last we have the nucleus of a promising team bearing in mind that they are still all relative strangers.  From your posts, I think you probably played at a reasonable level and if you think back to that time, it was always difficult at the start of new seasons when a couple of new lads came into the team as it took time to understand their strengths and weaknesses?  At Rovers we are starting with a virtual new team and it will take time to gell (13 new players ?).  

For that reason, don't be too harsh on Antonsonn.  The jury is still out but once everything settles, it may end up ok?

We will have big disappointments this season for reasons above but I would expect them to become fewer as time goes on and as players begin to understand their colleagues.

I think one or two posters are being a bit harsh on Antonsson anyway as I thought he played quite well yesterday.

If anything I thought he did well and Samuel (who I've been really impressed with to date) had one of his quieter afternoons since he's been here.

My main reservation about Antonsson now having seen he appears to have a bit of ability is he still looks physically very slight.

[gumboots]

Nice that my grandson saw a win in his first ever Rovers game. Need to make him forget that his daddy and other grandparents are Clarets

[Hasta]

19 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

So those who were slating Downing and Antonsson without having seen them play, where are you all now? Interested to hear your views. 

 

 

18 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

 

Good to spend the afternoon in the Company of 3000 + positive fans only wanting to see the side do well and prepared to judge what went on on its merits rather than the negative "we'll never do anything while Venky's are here' diatribe which pervades this messagebosrd.

 

Just gone back to look at the reaction after the final whistle on here. No negativity and yet within minutes you two are prodding at other fans looking for a reaction. Then when the thread obviously gets derailed off topic, people complain that, after a win, some people are never happy. I'm not sure if it's deliberate trolling or not tbh.

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Hasta said:

 

Just gone back to look at the reaction after the final whistle on here. No negativity and yet within minutes you two are prodding at other fans looking for a reaction. Then when the thread obviously gets derailed off topic, people complain that, after a win, some people are never happy. I'm not sure if it's deliberate trolling or not tbh.

 

The negative moaners disappear when the subjects of their ire perform well. They don't put their hands up and say they were wrong, they just move onto a new target/victim.

Our questions and comments are completely legitimate 

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

3 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

Looks like a good do.

Good to see and will probably increase in numbers if we continue to improve.Wigan away could see us take 5k.

Feels good when matters are going well for a change!

[gumboots]

I dont think theres anyone here who actually wants any rovers players to do badly. Some query new players coming in. They always have, even if players are known so obviously they will all the more when players are almost unknowns. I dont go to matches and have to admit to being deloghted with yesterday's win and will be dancing in the street if we get promoted even if i still have no clue who most of the players are

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Hasta said:

 

Just gone back to look at the reaction after the final whistle on here. No negativity and yet within minutes you two are prodding at other fans looking for a reaction. Then when the thread obviously gets derailed off topic, people complain that, after a win, some people are never happy. I'm not sure if it's deliberate trolling or not tbh.

 

Trolling? Give over.

Whereas its not trolling to come on here and trot out the usual "We'll never get anywhere until Venky's leave." line every time we lose a game and /or the manager has got the tactics or formation completely wrong or individual players have failed to perform on the day I suppose.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

1 hour ago, 4000Holes said:

Thanks for that Tyrone.  The only thing I would say is that at last we have the nucleus of a promising team bearing in mind that they are still all relative strangers.  From your posts, I think you probably played at a reasonable level and if you think back to that time, it was always difficult at the start of new seasons when a couple of new lads came into the team as it took time to understand their strengths and weaknesses?  At Rovers we are starting with a virtual new team and it will take time to gell (13 new players ?).  

For that reason, don't be too harsh on Antonsonn.  The jury is still out but once everything settles, it may end up ok?

We will have big disappointments this season for reasons above but I would expect them to become fewer as time goes on and as players begin to understand their colleagues.

I agree we are a team in the making at the moment. We looked more together defensively in the second half once Ward and Downing got to know each other and sorted out who was going for what. We also had a better shape second half when we got Evans and Bennett onto the ball more. What bothered me more than anything was our ability to play each other into trouble especially in the first half. We were getting caught in possession in dangerous areas. Our off the ball running and showing for a pass in our own half needs to improve. 

 

[jim mk2]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Can't agree with you at all about Jack Walker jim, every bit of success we've had over the last 25 years or so is down to him as well as the fabulous facilities at Brockhall and the new Ewood.

Cant even blame the family for legally trying to minimise their tax liabilities. Id probably do the same if I was that rich. The only point I was trying to make is that Im not sure they'd be wanting to throw much of the increased revenues our way if they were still in charge as it was a situation foisted upon them and they've no real interest in football.

No one would dispute the success Jack Walker helped to bring us - but that's not the point.

Everyone - especially the wealthy - should pay their taxes. And moving abroad to avoid paying taxes is immoral, greedy and selfish. 

 

[arbitro]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Trolling? Give over.

Whereas its not trolling to come on here and trot out the usual "We'll never get anywhere until Venky's leave." line every time we lose a game and /or the manager has got the tactics or formation completely wrong or individual players have failed to perform on the day I suppose.

I really don't understand how constructively criticising can be "trolling". Whilst the win was enjoyable and the most important thing there were several things I witnessed that can be improved and I'm certain that's how Mowbray and his staff will view it too. And in the first two league games I (and many others) felt Mowbray came up short with his tactics so why should he not be criticised.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, jim mk2 said:

No one would dispute the success Jack Walker helped to bring us - but that's not the point.

Everyone - especially the wealthy - should pay their taxes. And moving abroad to avoid paying taxes is immoral, greedy and selfish. 

 

They're not avoiding paying taxes altogether, they're legally reducing the amount they are required to pay in tax. They still contribute massive amounts in tax even at a reduced rate.

[scotchrover]

Looking ahead to Tuesday night, does anyone know how many we've sold? 

[Gone to seed]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

They're not avoiding paying taxes altogether, they're legally reducing the amount they are required to pay in tax. They still contribute massive amounts in tax even at a reduced rate.

Unfortunately neither you nor anyone else other than the individuals and their advisors can have the faintest idea about the reality of this.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, gumboots said:

I dont think theres anyone here who actually wants any rovers players to do badly. Some query new players coming in. They always have, even if players are known so obviously they will all the more when players are almost unknowns. I dont go to matches and have to admit to being deloghted with yesterday's win and will be dancing in the street if we get promoted even if i still have no clue who most of the players are

I'm the same, I always want our players to shine. I'd love to see the new guy from Leeds become the next Matt Jansen. Having said that I have eyes that see and what I saw yesterday wasn't good. He lost out in every physical challenge and he didn't win many foot races. He didn't seem up to the physicality of football at this level. He's quite slight in build but I've seen other players with a similar physique hold their own. He just didn't manage to impose himself on the game.

In the second half he had a real good headed chance on the corner of the 6 yard box were he headed the ball straight at the goalie. I thought he should have done better there. Same with the cross that flew across the goal, natural goalscorers manage to get something on chances like that.

On the plus side he worked hard off the ball and did his share of pressing. He made the goal look easier than it was by using the toe of his boot instead of a side foot, that made it hard for the goalie to anticipate the direction of the shot. That was the action of a natural striker. From where I was sat down the other end it looked to be a tap in but seeing it again on TV it needed scoring.

I suppose I'd start Dack with Samuel on Tuesday night and see if he can improve things.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, arbitro said:

I really don't understand how constructively criticising can be "trolling". Whilst the win was enjoyable and the most important thing there were several things I witnessed that can be improved and I'm certain that's how Mowbray and his staff will view it too. And in the first two league games I (and many others) felt Mowbray came up short with his tactics so why should he not be criticised.

I wasn't talking about the performance, I criticised aspects of it myself and still think we have a lot of room and scope for improvement.

Obviously no - one could come on here and complain too much after a 3-0 win, but im sure certain people will be on here like a shot moaning about the owners next time we lose even though the result and performance on the day is entirely down to the manager and the players once they cross the white line.

[islander200]

43 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

The negative moaners disappear when the subjects of their ire perform well. They don't put their hands up and say they were wrong, they just move onto a new target/victim.

Our questions and comments are completely legitimate 

Bigdogg it was one match bit early to be saying that Downing and Antonnson have proved the doubters wrong.So your question wasn't legitimate at all.

And like I said the fans who questioned the signings want to see the players in question do well.I don't get why you think we can't question the signing of a centre half who was an Mk dons reserve and a striker who hardly played for Leeds and has done nothing in the English game.

Also you criticize fans who question signings without seeing them play yet you said on the deadline thread "it would be unreal if we sign Harper on a permanent deal" yet you had never seen him play

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, islander200 said:

Bigdogg it was one match bit early to be saying that Downing and Antonnson have proved the doubters wrong.So your question wasn't legitimate at all.

And like I said the fans who questioned the signings want to see the players in question do well.I don't get why you think we can't question the signing of a centre half who was an Mk dons reserve and a striker who hardly played for Leeds and has done nothing in the English game.

Also you criticize fans who question signings without seeing them play yet you said on the deadline thread "it would be unreal if we sign Harper on a permanent deal" yet you had never seen him play

 

Signing a 17 year old who made his Premier league debut the week before on a permanent would be a brilliant signing. 

[islander200]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Signing a 17 year old who made his Premier league debut the week before on a permanent would be a brilliant signing. 

In that case signing a defender who can't make the starting 11 for mk dons a team expected to finish well Below us is a bad signing going off your logic.

Like I said Harper making his premier debut could have been Pulis making a point to the money men at West Brom that signings needed to be brought in.If he was up to playing premier league football he wouldn't have been sent out on loan would he?And they most certainly would have been tieing him down to a longer deal than two years

[RevidgeBlue]

BDS does make a fair point. Our old mate Shrimper the Southend fan was hounded off the board for being too positive for many and daring to suggest we had players most teams in the division would kill for.

Then the West Brom (?) fan who came on here trying to make a reasonable point about one of the young lads we'd signed on loan was met with sarcasm amongst all the abuse flying around about the 3 signings in general.

[islander200]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

BDS does make a fair point. Our old mate Shrimper the Southend fan was hounded off the board for being too positive for many and daring to suggest we had players most teams in the division would kill for.

Then the West Brom (?) fan who came on here trying to make a reasonable point about one of the young lads we'd signed on loan was met with sarcasm amongst all the abuse flying around about the 3 signings in general.

He came on the board the minute the match finished and was trying to act all high and mighty about being proven right on the back of one game against a poor Rochdale side.

Like I said any genuine Rovers fan will hope the new signings do well.But nobody can massage over the facts,Downing couldn't break into the Mk dons side,Antonnson has done nothing in the English game and Harper is a 17 year old kid with a few minutes senior experience behind him and we have our own talented youngsters that are contracted to the club.

Do you expect fans to accept every signing made and to say they are brilliant?

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, islander200 said:

 

Do you expect fans to accept every signing made and to say they are brilliant?

Judge them on how they play in blue and white shirt? 

Some players like Smallwood, Antonsson, Samuel, Hart, Harper, Chapman we signed I know very little about so can only judge them in a Blue and White shirt. 

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, islander200 said:

Do you expect fans to accept every signing made and to say they are brilliant?

No I dont EXPECT it. Over many years it's become obvious that football fans in general have a habit of writing players off before they've seen them kick a ball. I've probably been guilty of it myself at times.

This trait seems to be amplified here recently by people who have painted themselves into a corner regarding the owners refusing to accept that anything positive could ever happen under Venky's tenure or maybe being scared we might even have a bit of success at some point.

You'd HOPE that even if fans had reservations about players signed they'd keep an open mind on them until they'd seen them play a few times. Probably never happen though.

[islander200]

1 minute ago, chaddyrovers said:

Judge them on how they play in blue and white shirt? 

Some players like Smallwood, Antonsson, Samuel, Hart, Harper, Chapman we signed I know very little about so can only judge them in a Blue and White shirt. 

And I will be judging them in a blue and white shirt and hope they do well.But nobody can say yet that they where good signings

 

[den9112]

I have watched every game Antonsson as played, he is lightweight but he looks to me the sort of player who likes to work around the edge of the penalty area, feeding of balls played in to him  

He did have an opportunity yesterday were  he was hanging on the edge of the box, and received the ball, he should have shot and put the ball in the bottom corner of the net ,instead he passed the ball to a team mate  , were a natural striker would have been selfish and took the shot, these wrong decisions are normal when he is playing with new team mates ,club as in my opinion he just wants to please his mates , but he would need to change that if he wants to get some good form going, after all he is the striker and someone needs to tell him he can shoot on sight ...Just my opinion on the guy at this early part of the season ,,,,

[blueboy3333]

5 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

This trait seems to be amplified here recently by people who have painted themselves into a corner regarding the owners refusing to accept that anything positive could ever happen under Venky's tenure or maybe being scared we might even have a bit of success at some point.

Fair point, but that's only 2 or 3 posters. If BDS was referring to those posters in his original post then fair enough, if he was aiming it at anyone who has ever made a knee-jerk post after seeing a player for the first time then he has no place following football or reading MB's. Anyway, there should always be a 24 hour moratorium on  'I told you so' posts when we have just won a game. In fact it should be a forum rule