[Archived] Rochdale Away

[gumboots]

56 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

We may not get anywhere until Venky's leave but if they continue to act in an ostensibly normal manner like they did this summer by retaining and meeting Mowbray, discussing his plans with him and releasing the funds for the players he wanted for this level we just might.

When Neal and I'm sure many others like him say they'll never be happy until Venky's leave then that is an attitude I cant understand or even tolerate because by extension it means they'rll never be happy even if we start to do well and are presimably going to be even unhappier if  because of that the prospect of the owners leaving recedes.

So no apologies from me if I criticise that sort of attitude in general ifrom time to time if we continue to improve and people are still trying to find excuses to be miserable.

(Sorry reply to 47'er's post)

I wont be fully happy till venkys leave either but that doesnt mean i cant enjoy individual match wins or preferably a series of wins. Enjoyment of events and overall happiness arent the same thing. Weve all enjoyed meeting old friends and family members at a funeral but are still sad at the time

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, gumboots said:

I wont be fully happy till venkys leave either but that doesnt mean i cant enjoy individual match wins or preferably a series of wins. Enjoyment of events and overall happiness arent the same thing. Weve all enjoyed meeting old friends and family members at a funeral but are still sad at the time

Leaving a few short term results either way aside, what about if we enjoy some proper success like promotion or even hypothetically eventually promotion to the PL?

[Gav]

58 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

We may not get anywhere until Venky's leave but if they continue to act in an ostensibly normal manner like they did this summer by retaining and meeting Mowbray, discussing his plans with him and releasing the funds for the players he wanted for this level we just might.

When Neal and I'm sure many others like him say they'll never be happy until Venky's leave then that is an attitude I cant understand or even tolerate because by extension it means they'rll never be happy even if we start to do well and are presimably going to be even unhappier if  because of that the prospect of the owners leaving recedes.

So no apologies from me if I criticise that sort of attitude in general ifrom time to time if we continue to improve and people are still trying to find excuses to be miserable.

(Sorry reply to 47'er's post)

You can't tolerate or abide an attitude that says posters will never be happy until Venkys leave? Really?

We've discussed this on many occasions away from this site and I have no doubt you still harbour hopes that Venkys will 'come good' but come on Simon it's gone way beyond that now, the club, town and fans have been shafted, treated as arseholes by a series of Venky stooges, still are being, doesn't that anger you?

We'll probably never see our club in the big time again in our lifetime and I for one think that's absolutely criminal and completely avoidable if only the thick 3 had never graced our door.

It's good to win away at 3rd division Rochdale, but let's not loose site of the fact we're £150m in debt and owned by pondlife.

Venkys out! 

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, Gav said:

You can't tolerate or abide an attitude that says posters will never be happy until Venkys leave? Really?

We've discussed this on many occasions away from this site and I have no doubt you still harbour hopes that Venkys will 'come good' but come on Simon it's gone way beyond that now, the club, town and fans have been shafted, treated as arseholes by a series of Venky stooges, still are being, doesn't that anger you?

We'll probably never see our club in the big time again in our lifetime and I for one think that's absolutely criminal and completely avoidable if only the thick 3 had never graced our door.

It's good to win away at 3rd division Rochdale, but let's not loose site of the fact we're £150m in debt and owned by pondlife.

Venkys out! 

No Gav I cant tolerate an attitude whereby people are unhappy when we're doing well. And yes I know its far too premature to say that after a couple of wins we're "doing well" but that might continue. You never know!

[DE.]

30 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Leaving a few short term results either way aside, what about if we enjoy some proper success like promotion or even hypothetically eventually promotion to the PL?

Might as well ask what if we win the Champions League or sign Lionel Messi? It would require such a fundamental shift in attitude from Venky's to get there that it's pointless to ask such a thing even hypothetically. 

As it stands we're 10th in League 1. Best to leave hypotheticals about promotion or the Premier League until we've seen a little more football and I would suggest until after events in the January window come to a close.

[Gav]

20 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

No Gav I cant tolerate an attitude whereby people are unhappy when we're doing well. And yes I know its far too premature to say that after a couple of wins we're "doing well" but that might continue. You never know!

Even if we win the league at a canter, our prize - The Championship, with cr@p owners and £160m in debt.

So yes by all means enjoy the wins, but let's not pretend we're on the road to success under those rats because we're far from it.

[Sparks Rover]

26 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

No Gav I cant tolerate an attitude whereby people are unhappy when we're doing well. And yes I know its far too premature to say that after a couple of wins we're "doing well" but that might continue. You never know!

So, 10th or summat in L1 is doing well in your world is it.? If you went on saturday then, although it was a great day out, the opposition were no threat at all apart from the last 5 minutes when we decided to slow down.  When we are top then we are talking.

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 minutes ago, Gav said:

Even if we win the league at a canter, our prize - The Championship, with cr@p owners and £160m in debt.

So yes by all means enjoy the wins, but let's not pretend we're on the road to success under those rats because we're far from it.

I hate this attitude. Why do you even follow the club if you can't enjoy it when we are doing well? 

You strike me as someone who even if we got back to the Premiership, would still be bitter. 

[joey_big_nose]

1 minute ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I hate this attitude. Why do you even follow the club if you can't enjoy it when we are doing well? 

You strike me as someone who even if we got back to the Premiership, would still be bitter. 

I don't think that's bitterness. Its just a realistic appraisal of how Venkys are appalling owners and need to go. Nothing wrong with that.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, joey_big_nose said:

I don't think that's bitterness. Its just a realistic appraisal of how Venkys are appalling owners and need to go. Nothing wrong with that.

Not enjoying winning the league because of the owners is cutting your nose off to spite your face, I would call it bitterness. 

Obviously I am speaking about a hypothetical league win at the moment 

[joey_big_nose]

14 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Lol. 

To be fair imo MGP was brilliant for a number of seasons then inexplicably turned garbage more or less overnight and remained that way for his final 5 seasons or so at Ewood.

During that initial period when he was dropped Souness sent him off to the gym for a few months purely to work on building his strength up as I recall. 

He's one of those players that most weren't that keen on. Reminiscent of Rhodes in that he had aspects to his game that were very good, but his all round he wasn't quite the full package. 

[arbitro]

2 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I hate this attitude. Why do you even follow the club if you can't enjoy it when we are doing well? 

You strike me as someone who even if we got back to the Premiership, would still be bitter. 

I think you will find you would be in a minority if you weren't still bitter IF we ever got back in the PL. At the very best it will have been nigh on ten years of them during which we have been relegated twice, had near misses, have a debt that hangs around our necks like a millstone, has seen the local economy affected, lost around 12000 fans, redundancies etc, etc. So if you would be prepared to support them fine you do it. For local people who have suffered because of their sheer incompetence I don't believe they would be anything other than bitter.

[DE.]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Not enjoying winning the league because of the owners is cutting your nose off to spite your face, I would call it bitterness. 

Obviously I am speaking about a hypothetical league win at the moment 

I think most of us would enjoy winning the league, but still have very real concerns over the long term future of the club under these owners. Even if we do get promoted (and right now it's a big if) I'm absolutely sure we'd be right back into a relegation dogfight in the Championship again the following season, which is enough to somewhat dampen the excitement of promotion. 

I don't see how anybody can have total enjoyment knowing who our owners are and how many times they've sabotaged us in the past. I have a constant feeling of dread when it comes to Rovers. Even when things are going well I fear that around the corner is a stupid decision which will wreck our season. That is Venky's legacy so far and they have a long, long way to go to even come close to altering that perception. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, arbitro said:

I think you will find you would be in a minority if you weren't still bitter IF we ever got back in the PL. At the very best it will have been nigh on ten years of them during which we have been relegated twice, had near misses, have a debt that hangs around our necks like a millstone, has seen the local economy affected, lost around 12000 fans, redundancies etc, etc. So if you would be prepared to support them fine you do it. For local people who have suffered because of their sheer incompetence I don't believe they would be anything other than bitter.

I agree with what a lot of what you say.

However, If we got promoted to the Premiership, I believe you would be very surprised. 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, DE. said:

I think most of us would enjoy winning the league, but still have very real concerns over the long term future of the club under these owners. Even if we do get promoted (and right now it's a big if) I'm absolutely sure we'd be right back into a relegation dogfight in the Championship again the following season, which is enough to somewhat dampen the excitement of promotion. 

I don't see how anybody can have total enjoyment knowing who our owners are and how many times they've sabotaged us in the past. I have a constant feeling of dread when it comes to Rovers. Even when things are going well I fear that around the corner is a stupid decision which will wreck our season. That is Venky's legacy so far and they have a long, long way to go to even come close to altering that perception. 

Ya, but if you can't enjoy when the team are playing well, you really should relieve yourself of the stresses of following football. It isn't for you. 

[DE.]

5 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Ya, but if you can't enjoy when the team are playing well, you really should relieve yourself of the stresses of following football. It isn't for you. 

Fortunately I'm in a healthy enough position that I don't need anybody telling me what's best for my well being. Thanks for the concern though!

[Ozz]

5 hours ago, bob fleming said:

I thought it was a tremendous effort Ozz. Reminiscent of the Charlatans during their Wonderland phase. It sure silienced those anonymous dingles who were on the train. Possibly through fear, probably in horror. The train stop at burnley on the way back was hilarious.

Im still singing it now, throats killing me. 

[RevidgeBlue]

2 minutes ago, Gav said:

Even if we win the league at a canter, our prize - The Championship, with cr@p owners and £160m in debt.

Bloody Hell Gav. Bah, Humbug!

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, DE. said:

I think most of us would enjoy winning the league, but still have very real concerns over the long term future of the club under these owners. Even if we do get promoted (and right now it's a big if) I'm absolutely sure we'd be right back into a relegation dogfight in the Championship again the following season, which is enough to somewhat dampen the excitement of promotion. 

I don't see how anybody can have total enjoyment knowing who our owners are and how many times they've sabotaged us in the past. I have a constant feeling of dread when it comes to Rovers. Even when things are going well I fear that around the corner is a stupid decision which will wreck our season. That is Venky's legacy so far and they have a long, long way to go to even come close to altering that perception. 

Most of that is very fair comment. Im starting to think we should go up this season with this squad relative to the rest of the division. If we get that far then we would need to completely reassess. We're a reasonably big fish in a tiny pond at the moment but if we go up we'll we one of the smaller fish in the lake particularly if the stayaway fans stick to their principles. It would probably need  very substantial investment from the owners to even think about mounting another push for promotion.

As I keep saying you can only do one thing at once though and if we do enjoy any success this season Ill enjoy it as much as at any other time.

[tomphil]

6 hours ago, JacknOry said:

This board is hilarious at times but also boring. Can we not just enjoy a win without all the bickering whether you're on the positive or negative team?

Usually started by the over excited or head in the sands trying to put down or smear the realists but yeah enjoy a good win/day they don't come along often and before we know it we could be back down to earth with a bump.

Hopefully a decent result at Scunny, confidence is the key now and Mowbray must drill in that go and bust a gut to win evrry game mentality and not a return to the GB foot off the gas days after a good result or two every now and then.

Have to say though that having a muck and bullets player in the middle who actually puts tackles in and does get forward and find the net occasionally makes a massive difference to the whole team.

 

[JBiz]

2 hours ago, Sparks Rover said:

So, 10th or summat in L1 is doing well in your world is it.? If you went on saturday then, although it was a great day out, the opposition were no threat at all apart from the last 5 minutes when we decided to slow down.  When we are top then we are talking.

Do you think the Newcastle fans who likely did their own "NAPM" when relegated to league one under Mike Ashley are still staying away? 

Very different scenario to us, but there's nothing wrong with speculation on future outcomes similar to what they've now achieved - promotion back to the premier league.

I agree it's borderline ridiculous to consider it, but that's one reason why you won't catch me saying the unequivocal "venkys must leave" line, we don't know the future despite having a bloody good idea what's coming!

One thing that I feel ties future success and ultimately venkys together though- debt. We've often heard about their so called "pride"... perhaps they won't give up the club until they can realistically cover most debts and/or save some* face? Only way that's happening is a mid table premier league position, based on what they inherited, and the commercial side of it, bringing the tv money back.

So I guess it's a bit of a catch 22. Support from fans, either noise or money could really help us move upwards...(and eventually rid us of them) whereas NAPM or boycotting could push us further down, backwards and even further under the "venky carpet" (to be ignored and kept)...

 

edit - Newcastle never made third tier under Ashley, but other recent examples include Leicester, Southampton etc 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

37 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Most of that is very fair comment. Im starting to think we should go up this season with this squad relative to the rest of the division. If we get that far then we would need to completely reassess. We're a reasonably big fish in a tiny pond at the moment but if we go up we'll we one of the smaller fish in the lake particularly if the stayaway fans stick to their principles. It would probably need  very substantial investment from the owners to even think about mounting another push for promotion.

As I keep saying you can only do one thing at once though and if we do enjoy any success this season Ill enjoy it as much as at any other time.

I thought that when we last got promoted from the third division - and but for goal difference.

At the moment - just enjoying a few wins - after all the rubbish over the last few years - it is a welcome relief.

 

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Just now, K-Hod said:

I don't see what's unrealistic about assuming Venky's will make the same mistakes again though lad?

Using past behaviours to predict future behaviours eh?

TBH - nobody can predict what our owners will do next.

Just enjoy the relative peace and calm - we have a manager who was given some room to manoeuvre transfer wise post relegation  - and we managed to hold onto key players (and actually get some money for a keeper most would have given away). Amongst this - our owners stayed in the background and let the manager get on with it.

Will it stay that way - who knows - and that is the only thing you can predict about our owners - whatever you predict they will do, they often do the opposite.

 

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, Biz said:

Do you think the Newcastle fans who likely did their own "NAPM" when relegated to league one under Mike Ashley are still staying away?

Not sure Mike Ashley owned them in 1989, and I'm not sure it was called League One back then.

[JBiz]

Just now, Phil T said:

Not sure Mike Ashley owned them in 1989, and I'm not sure it was called League One back then.

Genuine mistake if they didn't. Man City, Norwich, Southampton.. there are a few that've been at this level and come back from it.