[Archived] Scunthorpe United v ROVERS

[GreenRover]

1 hour ago, Speedie's Gonna Get Ya said:

What continues to impress (and I can't honestly remember when I last thought this) is I feel like I am watching a team that is in it TOGETHER; I include the fans in this and the connection that is now being formed between the players and supporters. Not seen that in ages and it's brilliant.

Whilst the players have to do the talking with their feet (and any other body part!) we mustn't under-estimate the contribution the away fans have made in our recent successes away from home. Definitely the 12th man! Let's bring that spirit to Ewood and who knows what just might unfold!

Great statement. ? So true. I feel that myself having watched the games. The support was fantastic. I hope this transfers over to Ewood and we can get a good crowd in to support the boys. The deserve it after that fantastic performance last night.

[Speedie's Gonna Get Ya]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

Could be you're right about his playing on the wing days are over. If either or Evans or Smallwood is out I'd expect Tomlinson to be given a chance.

One thing that has impressed me about Evans is how his defensive game has improved not just distribution. Now very quick to close opposing player down; does Whittingham have this in his locker? 

[JacknOry]

4 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Really don't understand why people are writing off Whittingham.

Most exciting of our summer signings, he played at Southend in which every single player played poorly, including Smallwood, Samuel, Bennett, Dack, Graham etc

Then he played an hour on the right wing in a ridicilious formation, and hasn't been seen since due to the form of Evans and Smallwood.

He will be needed again, yet for no reason really he has been painted as a Danny Murphy like figure.

I dont think he has been labeled as a Danny murphy tbh, just it has not worked out yet. I guess its just findinjg the right place for him but others are performing better. I did expect better if im honest and i do hope he proves to be an asset.

[Speedie's Gonna Get Ya]

5 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

I dont think he has been labeled as a Danny murphy tbh, just it has not worked out yet. I guess its just findinjg the right place for him but others are performing better. I did expect better if im honest and i do hope he proves to be an asset.

Plus he's yet to play properly in a side that is now starting to pull together and gelling. Probably makes a difference for a player of his mold. Having said all that Evans & Smallwood have been immense in last couple of games and should be kept a 'tinker free' zone unless they need resting to keep them fresh. Even then I'm not sure I'd put Whittingham in.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Speedie's Gonna Get Ya said:

One thing that has impressed me about Evans is how his defensive game has improved not just distribution. Now very quick to close opposing player down; does Whittingham have this in his locker? 

I wouldn't have thought so.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, JacknOry said:

I dont think he has been labeled as a Danny murphy tbh, just it has not worked out yet. I guess its just findinjg the right place for him but others are performing better. I did expect better if im honest and i do hope he proves to be an asset.

If TM doesn't think he's good enough to step in when Conway was injured I can't see a place for him in our current set up. Two busy wingers out wide and two grafters in central midfield  with two out and out strikers up front - who would you drop to give him a game ? 

I think he was bought with a view to playing in the temporarily discredited  3-5-2 system.

iI could see him being brought on in the sort of games were we're well on top but just can't open a team up and the game is slipping away. Chuck him on and see if he can find a killer ball from somewhere.

[JacknOry]

8 hours ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If TM doesn't think he's good enough to step in when Conway was injured I can't see a place for him in our current set up. Two busy wingers out wide and two grafters in central midfield  with two out and out strikers up front - who would you drop to give him a game ? 

I think he was bought with a view to playing in the temporarily discredited  3-5-2 system.

iI could see him being brought on in the sort of games were we're well on top but just can't open a team up and the game is slipping away. Chuck him on and see if he can find a killer ball from somewhere.

Agree that he was bought with the other formations in mind but now finds himself redundant in a 4-4-2 where Smallwood and Evans have literally earned themselves being one of the first names on the teamsheet. it would take Evans next injury for him to be given a chance. Problem is, I don't think he came here to sit on the bench, he could have stayed at Cardiff for that.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Agree that he was bought with the other formations in mind but now finds himself redundant in a 4-4-2 where Smallwood and Evans have literally earned themselves being one of the first names on the teamsheet. it would take Evans next injury for him to be given a chance. Problem is, I don't think he came here to sit on the bench, he could have stayed at Cardiff for that.

The thing is if either of Evans or Smallwood are injured I can't see Whittingham replacing them.  Grafting in central midfield isn't his game, he's more of a playmaker.

[OJRovers]

21 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The thing is if either of Evans or Smallwood are injured I can't see Whittingham replacing them.  Grafting in central midfield isn't his game, he's more of a playmaker.

Problem is that he's likely to be one of the top 5 highest paid players in the league.

At least TM has had the conviction to drop him, rather than continue to play him to justify the expense  ala Jason Lowe.

[Athlete]

Was at the game on Tuesday but also was at the game in Salzburg 11 years ago today.. So thanks very much Venkys.. So anyone thinking positively about the club in general really needs to give their head a shake 

[MarkBRFC]

10 hours ago, Speedie's Gonna Get Ya said:

One thing that has impressed me about Evans is how his defensive game has improved not just distribution. Now very quick to close opposing player down

That's not Evan's improving, that's the quality of the opposition decreasing, a lot.

I think if Evan's or Smallwood are out with Injury Whittingham is the first choice to fill in, just to justify the signing if nothing else.

[islander200]

15 minutes ago, Athlete said:

Was at the game on Tuesday but also was at the game in Salzburg 11 years ago today.. So thanks very much Venkys.. So anyone thinking positively about the club in general really needs to give their head a shake 

We can still enjoy the team winning Athlete.If anyone still backs Venkys after the last 7 years you won't convince them now so you don't need to keep repeating about Venkys we are all aware

[Athlete]

7 minutes ago, islander200 said:

We can still enjoy the team winning Athlete.If anyone still backs Venkys after the last 7 years you won't convince them now so you don't need to keep repeating about Venkys we are all aware

Unfortunately there are fans who still believe in venkys was actually speaking to some at Scunthorpe and no you're right I'm not going to convince them.. Pretty sad really 

[Mattyblue]

There are two sets of people that defend Venky's.

First set:

'Unless they write off the debt we'd be fecked without them now'. Not neccesarily 'supporting' them, but a bit of grisly realism.

The second set: 

'They've put in more money than Jack ever did', 'they were badly advisedTM' , 'the fans are as much to blame'. 

I'm afraid group two are beyond redemption.

 

[Athlete]

Just now, Mattyblue said:

There are two sets of people that defend Venky's.

First set:

'Unless they write off the debt we'd be fecked without them now'. Not neccesarily 'supporting' them, but a bit of grisly realism.

The second set: 

'They've put in more money than Jack ever did', 'they were badly advisedTM' , 'the fans are as much to blame'. 

I'm afraid group two are beyond redemption.

 

Both groups you mentioned Matty really are mad as hatters... 

Anyway winning away when in all honesty 1st half especially we weren't brilliant.. Keep that up and we may just be there abouts. 

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The thing is if either of Evans or Smallwood are injured I can't see Whittingham replacing them.  Grafting in central midfield isn't his game, he's more of a playmaker.

Smallwood might be able to do most of the legwork in that regard but you're right that ideally he would not be the best option there (hence why he is not being played). An issue I see is if TM starts tinkering again just to find a place for one of his 'bigger' signings. As some have mentioned, he will be one of the highest earners here now and he did say he came here as he wanted to play more games.

Additionally, the same could be said of Dack who was obviously bought for a different system and has not featured as much as he probably would have liked (at least not in his ideal position).

[Gav]

48 minutes ago, Athlete said:

Was at the game on Tuesday but also was at the game in Salzburg 11 years ago today.. So thanks very much Venkys.. So anyone thinking positively about the club in general really needs to give their head a shake 

For anyone that wasn't in Salzburg 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=86QtB-qioUg

[Parsonblue]

47 minutes ago, Athlete said:

Was at the game on Tuesday but also was at the game in Salzburg 11 years ago today.. So thanks very much Venkys.. So anyone thinking positively about the club in general really needs to give their head a shake 

At the end of the day you can't change the past.  The past is history.  I too, was in Salzburg but still enjoyed the game on Tuesday night at Scunthorpe.  I can't change what has gone but I can enjoy the present upturn in results and performances.  Ultimately, you can't live in the past.  You have to make the best of what you have today and hope for better in the future.  Our owners aren't going anywhere anytime soon so one can only hope that the slight upturn in decision making this summer continues.

[blueboy3333]

56 minutes ago, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

The thing is if either of Evans or Smallwood are injured I can't see Whittingham replacing them.  Grafting in central midfield isn't his game, he's more of a playmaker.

The Southend game appears to have been a huge wake-up call for Mowbray. I think that one game told him that Whittingham couldn't play in a two man central midfield, and especially not in a system that that leaves the flanks exposed. The 3-5-2 he played in the next game against Donny was cobbled together to give Whittingham a free role but to also provide cover for the defence. It failed spectacularly because we had nobody up front to get hold of the ball. I don't think Graham moved in that match. Whittingham cut a very frustrated figure against Donny. When he got the ball further forward it got took off him because he couldn't cope with being harried by the opposition, and when he received it deep where he's more comfortable and looked up to play a killer ball  he just saw Graham on the halfway line doing his hair. If Samuel had played in that match it might have been a lot different because at least he would have run in behind.

Mowbray would be a fool to change it now. He appears to have found the perfect formula to grind out results away from home. The only way I can see Whittingham getting a game is at home to a side who offer no threat going forward. Or if it all suddenly goes tits up. A shame really because I'd imagine an on-song  Whittinhgam is a delight to watch.

[blueboy3333]

43 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

That's not Evan's improving, that's the quality of the opposition decreasing, a lot

Evans is quality. He was a regular in the Hull team that got promoted to the Prem few years ago. He was brilliant when he first signed for us but injuries have ruined him for the last 2+ seasons. Like Mulgrew, Evans is a cut above this league on football ability and intelligence.

[rigger]

Slightly at a tangent, but how do I add a ground to my list of grounds visited, anyone?

[Gav]

15 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

There are two sets of people that defend Venky's.

First set:

'Unless they write off the debt we'd be fecked without them now'. Not neccesarily 'supporting' them, but a bit of grisly realism.

The second set: 

'They've put in more money than Jack ever did', 'they were badly advisedTM' , 'the fans are as much to blame'. 

I'm afraid group two are beyond redemption.

 

I had lunch (beer and a burger) a few days ago with an economist from a well respected university and he walked me though the Venky model, a model that's been used since time immemorial to asset strip businesses.

Loan upon loan upon loan, never actually putting their own hands in the pockets, and simply filtering the capital from Premiership money and play sales out, leaving £140m debt that will be slapped back on to the football club when they get around to signing the papers.

They're not keeping us afloat, they're ramping up the debt, and it's just a matter of when, not if, they dump the debt on the club having made millions on the back of it and ride off into the sunset.

This concept is beyond most fans comprehension, they just want to see a game of football and get away from the wife for an afternoon, nowt wrong with that either, but it's only a matter of time until this hits the fan and when it does? Who knows?

[blueboy3333]

18 minutes ago, Mattyblue said:

'They've put in more money than Jack ever did', 'they were badly advisedTM' , 'the fans are as much to blame'. 

I'm afraid group two are beyond redemption.

I believe they were badly advised by people who made a lot of money out of Rovers (there has never been any proof to the contrary, and all the leaked documents back this up to some extent) but I don't blame the fans or think Venky's have put in more money than Jack.

Maybe have a re-think on your pigeonholes.

 

[Mattyblue]

They may well have been badly advised blueboy, however the buck stops with them and they have done nothing to rectify their initial horrendous decisions.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Gav said:

Loan upon loan upon loan, never actually putting their own hands in the pockets

I thought the money was borrowed against their own assets?

1 minute ago, Gav said:

This concept is beyond most fans comprehension

Arrogant much?

2 minutes ago, Gav said:

I had lunch (beer and a burger) a few days ago with an economist from a well respected university

Did he/she predict the financial crash of 2008? Did his/her University? Is his/her University funded by financial institutions. Saying a University is 'well respected' is meaningless without context.