[Archived] Scunthorpe United v ROVERS

[Gav]

6 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

I agree with Phil that this summer things have been done differently.  Losing Steele and Lowe has been no loss whilst retaining Mulgrew and Lenihan - against what many expected - has been a real position.  To think, there were some on here who said we wouldn't make a signing until those two were sold.  No one is pretending that all is right with the world, but at least we have made a move - be it ever so slight - in the right direction.  Life is far too short to be miserable all the time.

Things haven't been done differently at all, expectations have been dumbed down to such an extent that some fans think they have!

By all means enjoy the football, enjoy signing players and the new grounds, but let's not pretend anything has changed because it hasn't.

[Athlete]

11 minutes ago, Gav said:

Things haven't been done differently at all, expectations have been dumbed down to such an extent that some fans think they have!

By all means enjoy the football, enjoy signing players and the new grounds, but let's not pretend anything has changed because it hasn't.

This Gav about our fan base totally grates me they are pretending things have changed and now in my eyes are part of the problem at the club 

[JBiz]

15 minutes ago, Gav said:

Things haven't been done differently at all, expectations have been dumbed down to such an extent that some fans think they have!

Last summer we sold two key players and released a load to be replaced by 6 loans, 4 free transfers and Derick Williams for 250k. We also allowed a genuine manager to walk and replaced with a fraud.

This summer we've kept key players, replaced released and sold (12 in, 12 out) with a mixture of loans, frees and decent fees for league. We also kept the genuine manager by allowing some remit, without having to replace with Johnson/Dunn/Judan Ali..

 

Whilst I can quite happily agree with you that it's easier to make a statement in league 1 - there is a definite difference in those two summer breaks. 

[JBiz]

Just now, Athlete said:

This Gav about our fan base totally grates me they are pretending things have changed and now in my eyes are part of the problem at the club 

You thing fans are part of the problem? Have you seen the last couple of away followings? I don't think they're causing a problem personally, and I think our fanbase is the most United it has been in 5 years.

[Athlete]

Just now, Biz said:

You thing fans are part of the problem? Have you seen the last couple of away followings? I don't think they're causing a problem personally, and I think our fanbase is the most United it has been in 5 years.

A lot of fans yes there are quite a lot who seem to be in the venkys corner.. Complete utter fools in my eyes... Yes I was speaking to some at Scunthorpe.. They actually believe venkys are investing in the club.. Lol..

On the back of four wins against some poor opponents you'd think we were CL material.. They can't see we have no board structure whatsoever etc etc 

[JBiz]

Just now, Athlete said:

A lot of fans yes there are quite a lot who seem to be in the venkys corner.. Complete utter fools in my eyes... Yes I was speaking to some at Scunthorpe.. They actually believe venkys are investing in the club.. Lol..

On the back of four wins against some poor opponents you'd think we were CL material.. They can't see we have no board structure whatsoever etc etc 

They have invested over a hundred million in the club, don't forget that - whilst you're absolutely correct that they've allowed it to be run terribly.

They are absorbing a lot more debt this season to keep most of this squad together, when it was predicted they'd allow Tony to leave and sell off all playing assets.

Dont let emotion get in the way of the actual scenario - there's no reason to call fans fools either.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Biz said:

Last summer we sold two key players and released a load to be replaced by 6 loans, 4 free transfers and Derick Williams for 250k. We also allowed a genuine manager to walk and replaced with a fraud.

This summer we've kept key players, replaced released and sold (12 in, 12 out) with a mixture of loans, frees and decent fees for league. We also kept the genuine manager by allowing some remit, without having to replace with Johnson/Dunn/Judan Ali..

 

Whilst I can quite happily agree with you that it's easier to make a statement in league 1 - there is a definite difference in those two summer breaks. 

If Tony Mowbray was run over by the proverbial No 17 bus I wouldn't be too bent out of shape if we appointed Johnno. He's doing good stuff with the younger players.

In the long term with these owners we're stuffed,I know that. They'll never be able to redeem themselves in my eyes. Having said that for two hours this afternoon I'll put that to the back of my mind and I'll be glued to the TV watching for our scores.

I'm still boycotting the home games but I'll be trying to take in more away games this season.

[JBiz]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

If Tony Mowbray was run over by the proverbial No 17 bus I wouldn't be too bent out of shape if we appointed Johnno. He's doing good stuff with the younger players.

Same, I think he will make a good manager based on his results, I just listed three post season suggestions in the week leading up to TM staying on.

[Gav]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Last summer we sold two key players and released a load to be replaced by 6 loans, 4 free transfers and Derick Williams for 250k. We also allowed a genuine manager to walk and replaced with a fraud.

This summer we've kept key players, replaced released and sold (12 in, 12 out) with a mixture of loans, frees and decent fees for league. We also kept the genuine manager by allowing some remit, without having to replace with Johnson/Dunn/Judan Ali..

 

Whilst I can quite happily agree with you that it's easier to make a statement in league 1 - there is a definite difference in those two summer breaks. 

So we started the season in division 3, retained a manager who was under contract, let out of contract players leave and brought in an entire new team and you see that as a step in the right direction!

Dumbing down of the highest order Jbizzle.

 

[funny-old-game]

Just now, Biz said:

Same, I think he will make a good manager based on his results, I just listed three post season suggestions in the week leading up to TM staying on.

Please, how many good coaches have gone on to make/fail as true managers, very few.

Good managers are a certain breed that get the best out the players available.

Most if not all hire the best coaches available to them to do the day to day stuff and it's the manager that has extra quantity and knowhow to control all the different personalities within the squad that sets them apart from coaches wannabe managers.

K#@n (I feel sick thinking about him) had a good reputation as coach and look how that turned out.

[JBiz]

30 minutes ago, Gav said:

So we started the season in division 3, retained a manager who was under contract, let out of contract players leave and brought in an entire new team and you see that as a step in the right direction!

Dumbing down of the highest order Jbizzle.

 

Who said getting relegated was a step in the right direction?

[Athlete]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

They have invested over a hundred million in the club, don't forget that - whilst you're absolutely correct that they've allowed it to be run terribly.

They are absorbing a lot more debt this season to keep most of this squad together, when it was predicted they'd allow Tony to leave and sell off all playing assets.

Dont let emotion get in the way of the actual scenario - there's no reason to call fans fools either.

Ha ha... They've invested not a penny of their own cash 

If you think they've actually lost any of their personal cash on the club that's your belief not the truth 

[47er]

10 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

I agree with Phil that this summer things have been done differently.  Losing Steele and Lowe has been no loss whilst retaining Mulgrew and Lenihan - against what many expected - has been a real position.  To think, there were some on here who said we wouldn't make a signing until those two were sold.  No one is pretending that all is right with the world, but at least we have made a move - be it ever so slight - in the right direction.  Life is far too short to be miserable all the time.

The problem is you are happy so long as you get your 90minutes worth.

It wouldn't matter what division we were in or whatever the context

I could be happy whatever div we were in too,but only so long as the Raos were gone. that's the difference.

By the way, my general happiness does not depend on how Rovers are going. It's important but not by any means the totality.

 

 

 

[Gav]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Who said getting relegated was a step in the right direction?

You can't cherry pick Jbizzle.

We're doing all these wonderful revolutionary things such as retaining an under contract manager and letting out of contract players leave in the 3rd division, that's just a fact.

If you think things are on the up then great, but your expectations, like Parsons, have been well and truly dumbed down.

[JBiz]

7 minutes ago, Gav said:

You can't cherry pick Jbizzle.

We're doing all these wonderful revolutionary things such as retaining an under contract manager and letting out of contract players leave in the 3rd division, that's just a fact.

If you think things are on the up then great, but your expectations, like Parsons, have been well and truly dumbed down.

I never said wonderful or revolutionary, I merely pointed out the difference between two summers. 

I never mentioned expectations either, I just pointed out actual facts, no smoke and mirrors, no praise of the owners. It's so pitiful that people cannot discuss actual goings on anymore, because pointing out false predictions is apparently having expectations "dumbed down"

52 minutes ago, Athlete said:

Ha ha... They've invested not a penny of their own cash 

If you think they've actually lost any of their personal cash on the club that's your belief not the truth 

Oh so actual facts, reports, finance figure, published accounts and general decent source articles are "my belief" but your completely made up unfounded, zilch evidence theories about money coming from elsewhere is "truth"?

Give me a break. 

[Dreams of 1995]

2 hours ago, Biz said:

They have invested over a hundred million in the club, don't forget that - whilst you're absolutely correct that they've allowed it to be run terribly.

They are absorbing a lot more debt this season to keep most of this squad together, when it was predicted they'd allow Tony to leave and sell off all playing assets.

Dont let emotion get in the way of the actual scenario - there's no reason to call fans fools either.

I wouldn't call plugging losses through their own poor decisions, badly advised or not, 'investing'. I'd call it fulfilling their basic responsibilities. 

An 'investment' would have been providing a 5 million transfer budget last season to replace the 2 key players you sold to cover those losses created by your terrible decisions. Just saying.

[JBiz]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

I wouldn't call plugging losses through their own poor decisions, badly advised or not, 'investing'. I'd call it fulfilling their basic responsibilities. 

An 'investment' would have been providing a 5 million transfer budget last season to replace the 2 key players you sold to cover those losses created by your terrible decisions. Just saying.

Whether they've borrowed it, whether it's a result of bad decisions - its irrelevant, the owners are 100m+ in the hole through BRFC. I.e. They've spent their money.

If the discussion was "have they invested wisely", you'd have a point but I don't think that's ever been a question that needs answering. 

[Dreams of 1995]

Just now, Biz said:

Whether they've borrowed it, whether it's a result of bad decisions - its irrelevant, the owners are 100m+ in the hole through BRFC. I.e. They've spent their money.

If the discussion was "have they invested wisely", you'd have a point but I don't think that's ever been a question that needs answering. 

I didn't quite know the exact definition of investment so I googled it:

"The act of putting money, effort, time, etc into something to make a profit or get an advantage, or the money, effort, time, etc. used to do this"

They haven't put the money, effort or time into BRFC to make a profit or an advantage. They've simply fulfilled their basic ownership responsibilities by keeping the lights on and the club running. All their 'investment' happened during the Kean years and it was disastrous, some say criminal . No investment has happened since. They haven't invested a penny in over 4-5(?) years.

Again, paying the bills isn't investment. You should be careful to not try and lead other fans into believing it is - some may say you're being purposely disingenuous because you don't strike me as the kind of man to misunderstand the term investment.  

[Leonard Venkhater]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Who said getting relegated was a step in the right direction?

Steve Kean-immediately after that Wigan game. I nearly smashed the screen, when I saw it later!

[JBiz]

11 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

I didn't quite know the exact definition of investment so I googled it:

"The act of putting money, effort, time, etc into something to make a profit or get an advantage, or the money, effort, time, etc. used to do this"

They haven't put the money, effort or time into BRFC to make a profit or an advantage. They've simply fulfilled their basic ownership responsibilities by keeping the lights on and the club running. All their 'investment' happened during the Kean years and it was disastrous, some say criminal . No investment has happened since. They haven't invested a penny in over 4-5(?) years.

Again, paying the bills isn't investment. You should be careful to not try and lead other fans into believing it is - some may say you're being purposely disingenuous because you don't strike me as the kind of man to misunderstand the term investment.  

Utter condescension. Expenditure > turnover = someone "investing" the shortfall. 

 

8 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Steve Kean-immediately after that Wigan game. I nearly smashed the screen, when I saw it later!

He didn't say that, he said relegation is a step back to take a step forward, and I was just as angry.

[Gav]

30 minutes ago, Biz said:

I never said wonderful or revolutionary, I merely pointed out the difference between two summers. 

I never mentioned expectations either, I just pointed out actual facts, no smoke and mirrors, no praise of the owners. It's so pitiful that people cannot discuss actual goings on anymore, because pointing out false predictions is apparently having expectations "dumbed down"

 

You weighed into the debate by comparing the last 2 summers in support of progress having being made, but failed to mention our relegation?

No point throwing the toys out of the pram when you get pulled up Jbizzle.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

They haven't invested a penny in over 4-5(?) years.

 

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

"The act of putting money, effort, time, etc into something to make a profit or get an advantage

In order to gain an advantage this season they haven't cashed in on our playing assets which they could have done, and will continue to fund a playing staff that is probably the most expensive in this league. These expenses won't be covered by the gate receipts so money is being put into the club by the owners to keep things ticking over and give Mowbray a competitive advantage.

The real question is who will ultimately pay for all this, and for the other £100m+ hanging around the books of VLL, and that when they finally get bored who will be legally obliged to pick up the bill?

[JBiz]

2 minutes ago, Gav said:

You weighed into the debate by comparing the last 2 summers in support of progress having being made, but failed to mention our relegation?

No point throwing the toys out of the pram when you get pulled up Jbizzle.

Pulled up? Bunkum, it's just goal post moving. You said things haven't been done differently, I pointed out that certain things had been different this summer. 

Perhaps if they'd spent the Dack, Samuel et al money last summer, we wouldn't be league 1.

[tomphil]

The club has liquidized it's own assets for two years to survive because of reduced financial input from wherever it comes. Maybe that's balanced things out a bit for now because of stage payments for players sold coming in but there's every reason to suspect a similar scenario in a year or two to repeat the process regardless of where the team finds itself.

Don't forget their lack of investment or re-investment alongside the cheapo appointment of clownpants led to relegation to the 3rd tier for the first time in nearly 40 years. That's why it's vital we get up this season before the next liquidizing has to begin after this current crop has grown in value because when it has to be done it'll be done whether it means another drop or not.

 

[Dreams of 1995]

14 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

 

In order to gain an advantage this season they haven't cashed in on our playing assets which they could have done, and will continue to fund a playing staff that is probably the most expensive in this league. These expenses won't be covered by the gate receipts so money is being put into the club by the owners to keep things ticking over and give Mowbray a competitive advantage.

The real question is who will ultimately pay for all this, and for the other £100m+ hanging around the books of VLL, and that when they finally get bored who will be legally obliged to pick up the bill?

Looking at it like that you could say that this summer has seen investment, in a loose sense of the word. They've simply maintained the business model they had last year. However, due to the consistent down scaling over the past 6 years, that business model has took us into a position whereby we can be the big fish. They maintained the Premier League model for a season too and look what happened there.

When they took over this business it was a Premier League outfit with international footballers, brilliant coaching staff and an incredible executive team. Through their lack of investment that has been dumbed down to a point whereby simply maintaining a playing staff that got relegated from the 2nd tier is considered positive investment. Awful really.

21 minutes ago, Biz said:

Utter condescension. Expenditure > turnover = someone "investing" the shortfall. 

 

But that's not investment in the sense of the word at all. It's just fulfilling your obligations by plugging the shortfall or you'd be putting your business into liquidation, eventually. Positive investment would have kept us in the Championship last season - positive investment would see us challenging for promotion, like the other Championship clubs whose owners 'invest'.