[Archived] Wimbledon

[FGS5635]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Plus, Graham isn't actually that good in the air...or as a target man 

Thats a bit harsh on Graham imo. He leads the line quite well at times.

He uses his experience well, he is very good at positioning himself or giving a little nudge at the right time to win balls pumped forward to him.

He also has a good knack for laying it off well and finding a rovers player.

He is far to good for this level. Its upto to TM to motivate him and find a way to get the best out of him.

Ideally players would motivate themselves, but this is the modern day footballer

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, FGS5635 said:

Thats a bit harsh on Graham imo. He leads the line quite well at times.

He uses his experience well, he is very good at positioning himself or giving a little nudge at the right time to win balls pumped forward to him.

He also has a good knack for laying it off well and finding a rovers player.

He is far to good for this level. Its upto to TM to motivate him and find a way to get the best out of him.

Ideally players would motivate themselves, but this is the modern day footballer

He does ya, but he needs a partner if we are going to be playing hoofball up to him. He can't out muscle and outsmart 2 big physical lumps by himself. 

Ironically he would probably do well up against Mulgrew and Ward...which tells its own story. 

[Mattyblue]

Graham should be embarassed that he is now on the bench in the third division, the guy has more than enough ability for the Championship. But does he care enough? Watching him lark about on the pitch at half times, I'd say not...

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, FGS5635 said:

Thats a bit harsh on Graham imo. He leads the line quite well at times.

He uses his experience well, he is very good at positioning himself or giving a little nudge at the right time to win balls pumped forward to him.

He also has a good knack for laying it off well and finding a rovers player.

He is far to good for this level. Its upto to TM to motivate him and find a way to get the best out of him.

Ideally players would motivate themselves, but this is the modern day footballer

You might argue Mulgrew is far too good for this level but Graham? Not too sure about that at all. Think he has to actually show something in this Division before we can start throwing statements like that about.

His pay packet is too certainly good for this division. Whether the player himself is we'll have to wait and see.

[FGS5635]

1 minute ago, RevidgeBlue said:

You might argue Mulgrew is far too good for this level but Graham? Not too sure about that at all. Think he has to actually show something in this Division before we can start throwing statements like that about.

His pay packet is too certainly good for this division. Whether the player himself is we'll have to wait and see.

I think we saw enough from him in the past to know he is above this level. Hard to say he has shown nothing at this level, when he hasnt played.

We can guess at the reasons why he hasnt played. Its possibly half his attitude and half TM trying to move him on as one of the few assets we have that could possibly command a fee.

Plus his wages are to big for this level.

Either way he is here at least until January and is to good to sit on the bench.

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, FGS5635 said:

I think we saw enough from him in the past to know he is above this level. Hard to say he has shown nothing at this level, when he hasnt played.

We can guess at the reasons why he hasnt played. Its possibly half his attitude and half TM trying to move him on as one of the few assets we have that could possibly command a fee.

Plus his wages are to big for this level.

Either way he is here at least until January and is to good to sit on the bench.

He might have been above this level when he first came but we've not seen much from him in nearly 18 months now.

[FGS5635]

13 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

He does ya, but he needs a partner if we are going to be playing hoofball up to him. He can't out muscle and outsmart 2 big physical lumps by himself. 

Ironically he would probably do well up against Mulgrew and Ward...which tells its own story. 

I think the next couple of game will reveal a lot about where we are going.

I dont believe TM had any intention of playing 442 or 4411. I think it worked one game when his hand was forced a bit and he kinda didnt have the bravery of credit in the bank to stick to his beliefs.

I think he will revert back to his inital plans now after that defeat. I wouldnt be suprised if its 3 at the back in the next game

[FGS5635]

I always try not to have knee jerk early reactions to players. But antonsson just doesnt look good enough for me. I'd rather even a sub par Graham up front with samuel than him.

Maybe Antonsson comes good, but I dont see it being any time soon. He gets knocked off the ball with ridiculous ease. I dont see that as a quick fix

[K-Hod]

Sorry, but It's plain wrong to say we've not seen much from Graham in 18 months now.

He score 7 in 18 in his initial loan spell, then he scored 13 in 30 league games last season (top scorer?)  and that was under Owen Coyle!

Granted he's moved less than a sloth this season and on the whole he's looked sluggish and poor, but he's certainly the most talented of our strikers if his head is in the game. I'd say that's down to him mostly, but also to Mowbray.

[islander200]

5 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

He might have been above this level when he first came but we've not seen much from him in nearly 18 months now.

He scored 12 league goals last season in a crap side.I agree with you that we have seen a downturn in his performance levels since when he first joined but a fully fit and motivated Danny Graham is a much superior player than Antonnson. It makes me laugh when fans champion Antonnson when at the end of the day he is a Leeds player ,Danny Graham is contracted to the club.If Graham got a decent run of games I'd definitely back him to contribute a lot more than Antonnson 

[FGS5635]

I know its easy to think that with the money these guys get paid, they would run through brick walls, but life doesnt work like that. Football certainly doesnt work like that anymore.

Your modern manager lives and dies by his ability to motivate these overpaid players. The succeful ones find ways to do it, the others soon find themselves out of work

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, K-Hod said:

Sorry, but It's plain wrong to say we've not seen much from Graham in 18 months now.

He score 7 in 18 in his initial loan spell, then he scored 13 in 30 league games last season (top scorer?)  and that was under Owen Coyle!

Granted he's moved less than a sloth this season and on the whole he's looked sluggish and poor, but he's certainly the most talented of our strikers if his head is in the game. I'd say that's down to him mostly, but also to Mowbray.

He was sluggish and poor last season as well. Never turned up until sometime during November and whilst he somehow managed 12 or13 goals his overall contribution was very poor and he never appeared properly fit all season.

Without wanting to turn this into a Rhodes v Graham debate people used to criticise Rhodes all round play whilst he was weighing in with nearly twice as many goals.

If Graham comes off the bench two or three consecutive times and scores then maybe he might have an argument for forcing himself into the starting line up if the others arent scoring. Until then.......

[islander200]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

He was sluggish and poor last season as well. Never turned up until sometime during November and whilst he somehow managed 12 or13 goals his overall contribution was very poor and he never appeared properly fit all season.

Without wanting to turn this into a Rhodes v Graham debate people used to criticise Rhodes all round play whilst he was weighing in with nearly twice as many goals.

If Graham comes off the bench two or three consecutive times and scores then maybe he might have an argument for forcing himself into the starting line up if the others arent scoring. Until then.......

And Antonsson is leading the line brilliantly I suppose? 

[tomphil]

7 minutes ago, islander200 said:

He scored 12 league goals last season in a crap side.I agree with you that we have seen a downturn in his performance levels since when he first joined but a fully fit and motivated Danny Graham is a much superior player than Antonnson. It makes me laugh when fans champion Antonnson when at the end of the day he is a Leeds player ,Danny Graham is contracted to the club.If Graham got a decent run of games I'd definitely back him to contribute a lot more than Antonnson 

Pretty much think he's being sidelined though and they want rid sooner or later. Plenty stuff flying around that Rovers were offering him to every championship going but wages and fitness issues resulted in no proper bites.

[FGS5635]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

He was sluggish and poor last season as well. Never turned up until sometime during November and whilst he somehow managed 12 or13 goals his overall contribution was very poor and he never appeared properly fit all season.

Without wanting to turn this into a Rhodes v Graham debate people used to criticise Rhodes all round play whilst he was weighing in with nearly twice as many goals.

If Graham comes off the bench two or three consecutive times and scores then maybe he might have an argument for forcing himself into the starting line up if the others arent scoring. Until then.......

Some fair points. But every player seemed un-fit and un motivated last season. Id say Coyle takes a huge hit for that.

Granted Graham could have his own pride in his work and do extra himself, but there we have it.

[islander200]

Just now, tomphil said:

Pretty much think he's being sidelined though and they want rid sooner or later. Plenty stuff flying around that Rovers were offering him to every championship going but wages and fitness issues resulted in no proper bites.

But he is still here at least until January so he should be used.I have no belief in Antonnson, I don't care if he scored two goals, in the matches iv watched him he has looked extremely poor.If Graham isn't going to be started I'd rather see Dack playing behind Samuel. 

[FGS5635]

Graham certainly looked pumped up when he came on on sat. Was trying to fire the crowd up also a couple of times.

He needs a run of games now imo and either a shoulder around him or a rocket up his arse from TM  depending on the character of the man.

 

[JBiz]

18 minutes ago, FGS5635 said:

I always try not to have knee jerk early reactions to players. But antonsson just doesnt look good enough for me. I'd rather even a sub par Graham up front with samuel than him.

Maybe Antonsson comes good, but I dont see it being any time soon. He gets knocked off the ball with ridiculous ease. I dont see that as a quick fix

I think Antonsson possesses a few things that go unnoticed, which would press me to call him quite useful in a long season. Don't get me wrong, he's shown himself to be a bit of a soft touch in relation to the standard ultra-beef defenders in this league, his passing has been appalling at times and he probably should've scored/set up a few more chances so far.

That being said, I think;

1. He's fairly quick

2. He's relatively strong and good in the air for his size.

3. His workrate is excellent, he covers a lot of ground and makes a lot of runs.  

4. He's able with both feet, I've tried to pin him down as left footed but it's hard to tell when he uses both in such ways.

One strange thing I see from our fans though, Samuel has been just as bad, worse or at least showed similar issues in a few games, notably poor passing and finishing against AFCW and certainly didn't show the necessary work rate for me in that game.... yet no criticism?

I think we've got a good group of forwards that'll need rotating throughout the 46 games. Out of all of them, I've been most let down by Graham - who seems completely out of his depth at times. I actually thought he did ok against AFCW but tbh I expect more from him than the others.

[FGS5635]

The human brain is a funny thing. I think we all often see what we want to see depending on what we want to happen.

I have thought Graham should have played every game from the start of the season. No doubt that weighs slightly on my judgement of Antonsson and likewise others who share different views.

Graham is proven though in english football at standards above our current plight. For me if he is firing, our chances of promotion are way greater

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, tomphil said:

Pretty much think he's being sidelined though and they want rid sooner or later. Plenty stuff flying around that Rovers were offering him to every championship going but wages and fitness issues resulted in no proper bites.

Not sure how you can say he's being sidelined. He was obviously TM's original first choice and started in the opening 2 games against Southend and Doncaster but was abysmal hence him being dropped.

[islander200]

Just now, RevidgeBlue said:

Not sure how you can say he's being sidelined. He was obviously TM's original first choice and started in the opening 2 games against Southend and Doncaster but was abysmal hence him being dropped.

Antonnson hadn't signed and Samuel had just joined and wasn't available for the Southend game.If I remember correctly nobody in blue and white came out with credit from those two matches,the defeats weren't down to Danny Graham starting.

[tomphil]

8 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Not sure how you can say he's being sidelined. He was obviously TM's original first choice and started in the opening 2 games against Southend and Doncaster but was abysmal hence him being dropped.

Transfer window was still open, shop window maybe although his lack of application can be argued either way I suppose.

[tomphil]

18 minutes ago, islander200 said:

But he is still here at least until January so he should be used.I have no belief in Antonnson, I don't care if he scored two goals, in the matches iv watched him he has looked extremely poor.If Graham isn't going to be started I'd rather see Dack playing behind Samuel. 

I reckon the thinking behind Antonnson is his closing down from the front work along with Samuel in the 442 that's been successful away but it's run out of legs a bit at home now so they need to come up with something a bit different but doesn't leave the back line exposed when they lose the ball in the opponents half.

[FGS5635]

I think you need a bit of arrongance to get out of this league.

A manager that thinks I dont care what your strengths are, we are going to play like this...you try and stop us.

Doesnt let the opposition influence his tactics or team selection.

[Boaty]

                   Raya

Caddis lenihan mulgrew Williams

  Whittingham Smallwood evans

            Dack.      Chapman

                    Samuel