Harry Chapman

[Ewood Ace]

The biggest mystery to me is why Mowbray signed Chapman in the first place. During his loan spell he spent the majority of the time on the bench and that was in League 1, between him going back to Boro and us buying him he barely played any football as he was injured most of the time. Finally he is a proper winger and Mowbray doesn't play with them.

[old darwen blue]

53 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

Some young players need a kick up the arse, professional football can be a brutal workplace, no one hands you anything on a plate and young players need to understand your only as good as your last game, forget what you've done in the past it counts for nothing

But I would add with regards to the senior players the above isn't the case as they have earned the respect of Mowbray as they have carved a career at the highest level of the sport, and he trust them, Bennett, Graham, Johnson, Downing etc have seen it all, and they maintain a level of performance due to their experiance

there is nothing Mowbray can say to these players that will phase them and he knows it, so why would he risk losing the dressing room by trying to teach old dogs new tricks, he would lose his job

But I recon If he feels any of the senior players are starting to let him down he will bomb them out of the club as quickly as possible

It's obvious his approach to young and older players is different and in my opinion is right

by digging out the young players he's looking for a response, it's up to the player to provide it or be left behind

Brilliant post. Not a thing wrong with that. 

48 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

I don't read it that way myself, although can understand that it could be interpreted like that.  Personally, I think he's merely pointing out that supporters will always blame the manager if a particularly player is not in the team who they think should be.  However, if that player is not performing - and Chapman certainly hasn't been - then the manager is quite right to point out that the player needs to up his game.  Mowbray is certainly not the first manager at Ewood to do so publicly.

I agree I think some are misreading the comment. 

35 minutes ago, SkipDonoghue said:

We don't know what has gone on previously with Chapman but from what we know he was injured while in Austria how seriously only the club know this, but it happened early in the trip which by all accounts was a tough pre season meaning from the off he's behind the rest of the squad, he's played for the 23s and done OK but OK won't get you in the 1st team, it looks to me that Mowbray has had a word with him in private and its not working, then he has been asked a question by a reporter and he has given an honest answer, he isn't slagging Chapman off he is looking for a response from the lad, the ball is now in Chapmans Court, starting with u23s game at Brighton tonight

Again fully agree. 

[RevidgeBlue]

3 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

Chapman has been very disappointing in pre-season and the early Under-23 games.  .  

Mowbray has been extremely disappointing with his performance during the transfer window in pre season and the early part of the season proper as well! Sadly we can't send him out on loan or to work with the kids.

How is Chapman meant to be fully motivated when he has been here since January and was initially sidelined due to some feeble excuses about him not being fit enough to play even though he was fit enough to play for Boro,  seven months on, is yet to be given an opportunity, and has now been consigned to the stiffs with the U23's?

Disgraceful attempt by Mowbray to deflect criticism off himself by chucking yet another young player under the bus in public.

He's showing himself to be a real nasty piece of work imo. That would be fine to a point f he were like Ferguson, even handed and tough with everyone but his favourites are clearly beyond any form of criticism whereas younger players are evidently fair game and expendable.

The sooner Mowbray's gone the better for me. Unfortunately we'll probably lose Chapman first with him never having even been given a chance here.

[HowieFive0]

As we are not privy to the day to day behind the scenes running at rovers we certainly don't know what attitude Chapman is displaying ..but lets put it this way if the lad was busting a gut in training etc etc then we certainly would nt have heard TMs comments we have today. So read that as you will...

Agree with SkipDonoghues comments above ..these young uns think they ve made it once they sign ..and are open to criticism and quite rightly so.

[MarkBRFC]

21 minutes ago, Ewood Ace said:

The biggest mystery to me is why Mowbray signed Chapman in the first place. During his loan spell he spent the majority of the time on the bench and that was in League 1, between him going back to Boro and us buying him he barely played any football as he was injured most of the time. Finally he is a proper winger and Mowbray doesn't play with them.

Really cheap deal for a player with obvious potential, good U23 games, few eye catching cup games and sub appearances, sell on for a small profit.

See Nuttall, Joe.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

Really cheap deal for a player with obvious potential, good U23 games, few eye catching cup games and sub appearances, sell on for a small profit.

See Nuttall, Joe.

I don't think that the signing of Chapman is at all comparable to the signing of Nuttall. 

[1864roverite]

18 minutes ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Mowbray has been extremely disappointing with his performance during the transfer window in pre season and the early part of the season proper as well! Sadly we can't send him out on loan or to work with the kids.

How is Chapman meant to be fully motivated when he has been here since January and was initially sidelined due to some feeble excuses about him not being fit enough to play even though he was fit enough to play for Boro,  seven months on, is yet to be given an opportunity, and has now been consigned to the stiffs with the U23's?

Disgraceful attempt by Mowbray to deflect criticism off himself by chucking yet another young player under the bus in public.

He's showing himself to be a real nasty piece of work imo. That would be fine to a point f he were like Ferguson, even handed and tough with everyone but his favourites are clearly beyond any form of criticism whereas younger players are evidently fair game and expendable.

The sooner Mowbray's gone the better for me. Unfortunately we'll probably lose Chapman first with him never having even been given a chance here.

sorry Simon, I totally have to disagree with you.Mowbray steadied the ship, and we have been on a progressive step ever since. Sure,some might disagree with the signings BUT we have a good young team and in this day and age some youngsters need a bloody good arse kicking to get their motivation right.

re Chapman, he was injured for the best part and didn't really paly much football after his operation. It is down tot he player to get himself beyond the fitness stage and make an impression to ensure he gets picked, a bit like Travis has done

[MarkBRFC]

Just now, Ewood Ace said:

I don't think that the signing of Chapman is at all comparable to the signing of Nuttall. 

Why?

Both young players with potential, signed for practically nothing, both will probably never be regular first team players with us, doubtful if they will ever play regularly at this level either, one already sold for a profit & Chapman will probably go the same way.

I expect him to go on loan in Jan and move on a permanent next summer. He will never be a regular here.

[Ewood Ace]

Just now, MarkBRFC said:

Why?

Both young players with potential, signed for practically nothing, both will probably never be regular first team players with us, doubtful if they will ever play regularly at this level either, one already sold for a profit & Chapman will probably go the same way.

I expect him to go on loan in Jan and move on a permanent next summer. He will never be a regular here.

Nuttall was signed on a free and he played most of his short career in Scottish League one, he was brought into the under 23's with the aim of developing him there. Chapman has already played a decent amount of football in League 1 and is an under 20 world cup winner, he's nearly 22 now and I highly doubt that he came here to develop in the under 23's .

Also Chapman was brought in for a fee and if he doesn't play much this season then he will and he does leave next summer as you suggest then we are unlikely to make much if any of a profit for a player who will by then have hardly played any football in 3 years.

 

[Parsonblue]

4 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Mowbray has been extremely disappointing with his performance during the transfer window in pre season and the early part of the season proper as well! Sadly we can't send him out on loan or to work with the kids.

How is Chapman meant to be fully motivated when he has been here since January and was initially sidelined due to some feeble excuses about him not being fit enough to play even though he was fit enough to play for Boro,  seven months on, is yet to be given an opportunity, and has now been consigned to the stiffs with the U23's?

Disgraceful attempt by Mowbray to deflect criticism off himself by chucking yet another young player under the bus in public.

He's showing himself to be a real nasty piece of work imo. That would be fine to a point f he were like Ferguson, even handed and tough with everyone but his favourites are clearly beyond any form of criticism whereas younger players are evidently fair game and expendable.

The sooner Mowbray's gone the better for me. Unfortunately we'll probably lose Chapman first with him never having even been given a chance here.

Perhaps if Chapman upped his game in the Under-23's and made it impossible for the manager to leave him out then I might agree with you.  At the moment the likes of Jack Vale and Stefan Mols have shown far more hunger in these games than a very indifferent Chapman.  Clearly he is not doing it in training or he would be in and around the squad.  Not everything can be blamed on the manager.  Chapman is a professional and should be able to motivate himself to fight for a first team place.

[Maji]

Perhaps he's indifferent as he was fed a load of twaddle when he signed?  There's far more to selection in football than form or training performance. We both know this.  If he'd been given a chance and flopped then OK but he hasn't and TM said he was for the 1st team.

The lad has something and could be a useful sub from what I have seen of him.  

[rovers11]

I don't see anything wrong with what Mowbray has said to the press about Chapman. The fans have a right to know why he's not playing Chapman and he's been honest and done that. Clearly he's spoke to Chapman directly so those quotes will come as no surprise to him.

Reading between the lines, TM does not think Chapman is showing the passion, energy or desire to be in the squad at the moment. A fully firing Chapman is probably our most talented winger, but TM has shown he will prefer players who give 100%, such as Bennett, over more talented players who do not have the same drive and motivation. You can't blame him for that as that's what our upward trajectory has been built on since TM arrived.

[Ossydave]

Just scored, again, for the u23 team. Isn't that 2 games in a row now? Struggling to see what hes done THAT wrong.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Ossydave

[chaddyrovers]

I appreciated Mowbray telling the fans exactly why Chapman isn't playing. If Chapman isn't playing well enough and showing the passion, desire and work rate in game and training than quite rightly he shouldn't be playing for the 1st team. We have seen that if you play well for under 23's you can break into the 1st team squad like Buckley, JRC. So it is down to Chapman to show this. We have seen the comments the posts of people who attend the under 23's games and they have said he hasn't performance well enough 

[DE.]

Just now, Ossydave said:

Just scored, again, for the u23 team. Isn't that 2 games in a row now? Struggling to see what hes done THAT wrong.

Much like Rothwell I fear it's just a case of his face doesn't fit. I hope I'm proven wrong on that, but Travis went into a very long exile after falling foul of Mowbray with his red card back in the L1 season, so it could be a while before we see Chapman in the first team, if at all. 

[Ossydave]

Incidentally Samuel has banged 2 in as well and just gone close to a hat trick....

[chaddyrovers]

3 minutes ago, DE. said:

Much like Rothwell I fear it's just a case of his face doesn't fit. I hope I'm proven wrong on that, but Travis went into a very long exile after falling foul of Mowbray with his red card back in the L1 season, so it could be a while before we see Chapman in the first team, if at all. 

Rothwell face doesnt fit? Really? 

Travis learnt and develop plus his under 23's performances keep him knocking on the door. He got his chance and prove himself. Now 1st choice and undropable

[BRFC4EVA]

Chapman has just got his second. And sounded like heavily involved in other goals too. If you trail through the twitter feed of all the u23 games Chapham generally is close to everything that is good, whether that be scoring, assisting or creating dangerous opportunities. 

Granted I'm not seeing him live, just going off what I can see on Twitter and match reports.

Edited August 30, 2019 by BRFC4EVA

[Exiled in Toronto]

The combination of a paper that has a page to fill every night about Rovers and a manager who doesn’t seem to edit his inner voice too much results in and endless supply of things to get upset about if one pays much attention to it.

Personally, I don’t because, throughout his reign, there has been no tangible fallout from it. How many players we like have left because of it? How many wantaway stories do we read about? There was a lot of angst about Travis being sent to the salt mines after his Pompey sending off but I think he is twice the player now. 

None of us, me included, have any idea what’s involved in managing a squad of professional players who all think they should be in the team, whereas Mowbray has spent his entire working life in that environment. I’d be very surprised if many of them put more store in what gets printed in a tinpot local rag read by John Claret et al than what gets said in the workplace day in, day out.

The case against him would be strengthened if Nyambe, Rothwell and Chapman had torn it up in their allotted minutes this season, and if he wasn’t always picking Travis and bringing Buckley on.

[DE.]

26 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Rothwell face doesnt fit? Really? 

Travis learnt and develop plus his under 23's performances keep him knocking on the door. He got his chance and prove himself. Now 1st choice and undropable

Travis was going to be loaned out until Smallwood was suspended at the end of 2018. That's a fact, Mowbray said as much. Travis thankfully impressed enough to make the position his, but if not for that suspension he would likely have ended up in League 1 for the next six months and who knows where he'd be in the pecking order now? Obviously no point stressing over hypotheticals but Travis' inclusion was not part of Mowbray's plans - it was something that happened due to circumstances and credit goes to Travis for stepping up when he had his opportunity.

Rothwell did the same at the end of last season, but unfortunately he was back on the bench for game one this season, which we duly lost. Still no goals from open play in the league but Rothwell remains on the bench, except for one match against Fulham which for some appears to be enough to decide he deserves to be a bench warmer for the foreseeable, forgetting how he invigorated our team at the end of last season and was a pivotal figure in rescuing us from an alarming slump. There was no justifiable reason, imo, for him to be relegated to backup again this season. Granted there are things going on in training, etc, that I'm not seeing, so maybe there's something else going on. Even so, I believe he deserves more of a chance than he's getting at the moment. 

[Exiled in Toronto]

Just now, DE. said:

Travis was going to be loaned out until Smallwood was suspended at the end of 2018. That's a fact, Mowbray said as much. Travis thankfully impressed enough to make the position his, but if not for that suspension he would likely have ended up in League 1 for the next six months and who knows where he'd be in the pecking order now? Obviously no point stressing over hypotheticals but Travis' inclusion was not part of Mowbray's plans - it was something that happened due to circumstances and credit goes to Travis for stepping up when he had his opportunity.

Rothwell did the same at the end of last season, but unfortunately he was back on the bench for game one this season, which we duly lost. Still no goals from open play in the league but Rothwell remains on the bench, except for one match against Fulham which for some appears to be enough to decide he deserves to be a bench warmer for the foreseeable, forgetting how he invigorated our team at the end of last season and was a pivotal figure in rescuing us from an alarming slump. There was no justifiable reason, imo, for him to be relegated to backup again this season. Granted there are things going on in training, etc, that I'm not seeing, so maybe there's something else going on. Even so, I believe he deserves more of a chance than he's getting at the moment. 

I was led to believe by dozens of posts in another thread that these were “dead rubber games” that counted for absolutely nothing....

[Stuart]

“Rubbish that Chapman”. “Just not interested”.

 

[Ossydave]

So the kick up the backside did the trick then

[DE.]

Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

I was led to believe by dozens of posts in another thread that these were “dead rubber games” that counted for absolutely nothing....

Technically correct, but you can't deny the impact Rothwell had in those games. Nor can it be denied that our attacking unit hasn't been firing on anything close to all cylinders so far this season. Our recent victories have come on the back of improved defensive performance rather than attacking performance. If we keep getting good results then OK, fine, but there's a chance we'll eventually lose Rothwell who will surely want more game time elsewhere. We'll then potentially be left with only strikers to play in the wide positions along with an aging Downing. 

I really hope Rothwell gets significantly more game time to show what he can do. If he fails to impress after that then fair enough. He's one of our biggest potential stars and it would be a huge shame if he left because we wouldn't give him an opportunity to prove himself. 

Edited August 30, 2019 by DE.

[Blue blood]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Much like Rothwell I fear it's just a case of his face doesn't fit. I hope I'm proven wrong on that, but Travis went into a very long exile after falling foul of Mowbray with his red card back in the L1 season, so it could be a while before we see Chapman in the first team, if at all. 

See this is the thing. If it was one young player who the manager criticised and told to up their game, or the manager treated all players similarly, then there wouldn't be any issue, or so many posts. Probably a "hope that causes a reaction / gives him the kick up the backside that is needed" type response. 

However 1) it is only young players who are singled out - regardless of form. Haven't seen Mulgrew, Evans, Smallwood and Bennett singled out for some atrocious performances which given some of their consistent inadequacy must be hard for the young players to take, when they are slated in similar, or in some cases, for less poor performances. That's bound to annoy anyone. How would anyone in any job feel when their mistakes are criticised in public, but their senior colleagues make more mistakes yet nothing is said? it can't help team spirit. 

2) How is it working out? Nayambe and Raya singled out, and one has left and one is dropped. Rothwell singled out and he's not in the team despite some positive performances at the end of last season. If the tactic was working, unfair and unethical (imo) as it is you'd see the benefit, but the calling out of these players isn't really working whatsoever. So it's not only bad for team morale it's pretty ineffective. 

Personally I think Chapman would rate as a good impact sub, bringing him on for the last 15-20 mins and watching him cause havoc against tired legs. We don't really have a player like him in the squad so it's a shame we're not utilising him. Strangest of all is that TM has worked with him and knows what he is like, and I can't  see a massive character change in 12/18 months so it's an odd signing if TM doesn't rate him either talent or attitude wise.