Harry Chapman

[AllRoverAsia]

43 minutes ago, BRFC4EVA said:

Chapman has just got his second. And sounded like heavily involved in other goals too. If you trail through the twitter feed of all the u23 games Chapham generally is close to everything that is good, whether that be scoring, assisting or creating dangerous opportunities. 

Granted I'm not seeing him live, just going off what I can see on Twitter and match reports.

I've just woke up and the first NewNow link I saw was that BHA showed this game live and for free via their website,

WTF do we not do that for U23 games?

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Ossydave said:

So the kick up the backside did the trick then

Yes, all down to Mowbray. No player involvement.

[DE.]

Just now, Blue blood said:

See this is the thing. If it was one young player who the manager criticised and told to up their game, or the manager treated all players similarly, then there wouldn't be any issue, or so many posts. Probably a "hope that causes a reaction / gives him the kick up the backside that is needed" type response. 

However 1) it is only young players who are singled out - regardless of form. Haven't seen Mulgrew, Evans, Smallwood and Bennett singled out for some atrocious performances which given some of their consistent inadequacy must be hard for the young players to take, when they are slated in similar, or in some cases, for less poor performances. That's bound to annoy anyone. How would anyone in any job feel when their mistakes are criticised in public, but their senior colleagues make more mistakes yet nothing is said? it can't help team spirit. 

2) How is it working out? Nayambe and Raya singled out, and one has left and one is dropped. Rothwell singled out and he's not in the team despite some positive performances at the end of last season. If the tactic was working, unfair and unethical (imo) as it is you'd see the benefit, but the calling out of these players isn't really working whatsoever. So it's not only bad for team morale it's pretty ineffective. 

Completely agree. It's an aspect of TM's management I 100% disagree with. With that said I wouldn't want him to single out any player in public, senior or otherwise. I prefer for that stuff to be done behind closed doors. 

Travis is thus far the only younger player to really push on under Mowbray. There's potential with the likes of Buckley getting appearances but otherwise our problem positions have been filled by older players, not younger ones. At RB we've seen Nyambe (21) demoted for Bennett (30). Rothwell (24) has had a potential place taken by Downing (35), as has Armstrong (22) to some degree, although Arma has had a couple of shots up top lately. Graham at 34, however, still seems to be the preferred option up top ahead of Gallagher (23) who plays wide, and Brereton (20) who barely plays at all. Raya has left and whilst his replacement is the same age he also isn't our player so it remains to be seen who ultimately ends up between the sticks. 

I'm not saying we should be throwing a bunch of younger players on at the expense of getting results, absolutely not, but whilst Mowbray has brought in a lot of younger players I'm yet to see any convincing proof he can or will integrate them effectively. I hope I'm wrong as the likes of Graham, Downing and Johnson in particular don't have that many years left in them so we need to be looking to the future in these positions rather than short-term solutions. Players like Rothwell and Nyambe aren't going to hang around forever waiting for opportunities - in particular Rothwell who at 24 has to be getting regular game time in the near future. He isn't a youngster anymore and can't be treated like one.  

[Exiled in Toronto]

Just now, Blue blood said:

See this is the thing. If it was one young player who the manager criticised and told to up their game, or the manager treated all players similarly, then there wouldn't be any issue, or so many posts. Probably a "hope that causes a reaction / gives him the kick up the backside that is needed" type response. 

However 1) it is only young players who are singled out - regardless of form. Haven't seen Mulgrew, Evans, Smallwood and Bennett singled out for some atrocious performances which given some of their consistent inadequacy must be hard for the young players to take, when they are slated in similar, or in some cases, for less poor performances. That's bound to annoy anyone. How would anyone in any job feel when their mistakes are criticised in public, but their senior colleagues make more mistakes yet nothing is said? it can't help team spirit. 

2) How is it working out? Nayambe and Raya singled out, and one has left and one is dropped. Rothwell singled out and he's not in the team despite some positive performances at the end of last season. If the tactic was working, unfair and unethical (imo) as it is you'd see the benefit, but the calling out of these players isn't really working whatsoever. So it's not only bad for team morale it's pretty ineffective. 

Personally I think Chapman would rate as a good impact sub, bringing him on for the last 15-20 mins and watching him cause havoc against tired legs. We don't really have a player like him in the squad so it's a shame we're not utilising him. Strangest of all is that TM has worked with him and knows what he is like, and I can't  see a massive character change in 12/18 months so it's an odd signing if TM doesn't rate him either talent or attitude wise. 

I suspect being shipped off to Wigan and the other two not getting a single minute of Championship action might just possibly be a result of their atrocious performances. They are no doubt all very happy that the manager didn’t mention them in his endless interviews.

[AllRoverAsia]

Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

I suspect being shipped off to Wigan and the other two not getting a single minute of Championship action might just possibly be a result of their atrocious performances. They are no doubt all very happy that the manager didn’t mention them in his endless interviews.

Happier more with their contracts, Mulgrew included. They must love Mowbray to bits.

Edited August 30, 2019 by AllRoverAsia

[Blue blood]

Just now, Exiled in Toronto said:

I suspect being shipped off to Wigan and the other two not getting a single minute of Championship action might just possibly be a result of their atrocious performances. They are no doubt all very happy that the manager didn’t mention them in his endless interviews.

I agree they're probably happy it wasn't mentioned and flagged up, I'm not sure it's great practice to go public with criticism - and if that's the case why do it to the youngsters? The issue is the inequality of it as the youngsters in question have also been shipped out or not playing. So firstly the issue is the doubling down on the youngsters - if Evans etc were treated in line with their performances, the youngsters got that and publically slated. The issue firstly is one of inequality. 

If I'm honest I also think that the standards used to drop the youngsters by and large were much harsher than the senior pros. Mulgrew, Smallwood and Bennett even now played worse for much longer before being dropped than Nayambe and Rothwell for example. (Raya is arguably the exception although that is partly due to a lack of back up keepers and imo he also showed lots of positives and promise as well as silly errors.) Senior players seem to have a lot more lattitude for errors than the young players. 

Fortunately there have been changes - positive changes - but they seem very slow in coming and for every positive there seems to be a step back as well. One of which, imo, is TM's handling of young players. 

 

[magicalmortensleftpeg]

20 minutes ago, DE. said:

Completely agree. It's an aspect of TM's management I 100% disagree with. With that said I wouldn't want him to single out any player in public, senior or otherwise. I prefer for that stuff to be done behind closed doors. 

Travis is thus far the only younger player to really push on under Mowbray. There's potential with the likes of Buckley getting appearances but otherwise our problem positions have been filled by older players, not younger ones. At RB we've seen Nyambe (21) demoted for Bennett (30). Rothwell (24) has had a potential place taken by Downing (35), as has Armstrong (22) to some degree, although Arma has had a couple of shots up top lately. Graham at 34, however, still seems to be the preferred option up top ahead of Gallagher (23) who plays wide, and Brereton (20) who barely plays at all. Raya has left and whilst his replacement is the same age he also isn't our player so it remains to be seen who ultimately ends up between the sticks. 

I'm not saying we should be throwing a bunch of younger players on at the expense of getting results, absolutely not, but whilst Mowbray has brought in a lot of younger players I'm yet to see any convincing proof he can or will integrate them effectively. I hope I'm wrong as the likes of Graham, Downing and Johnson in particular don't have that many years left in them so we need to be looking to the future in these positions rather than short-term solutions. Players like Rothwell and Nyambe aren't going to hang around forever waiting for opportunities - in particular Rothwell who at 24 has to be getting regular game time in the near future. He isn't a youngster anymore and can't be treated like one.  

Smallwood and Evans are now behind Travis. Mulgrew is warming the bench for Wigan. Surely that says more than any comments made in public..?

Rothwell is older than Armstrong and Armstrong gets picked most weeks so I don’t think it’s an age issue. Furthermore, on form alone I’d select Downing ahead of  Rothwell at present. Dack came in at 24 (23?) and has been a pivotal player for us.

I like Nyambe and his non selection, for me, is the main contentious issue when it comes to Mowbray’s tactics. 

 

[Adam C]

2 hours ago, Stuart said:

“Rubbish that Chapman”. “Just not interested”.

 

? surely this shows the value of some tough love from TM. Instant response from Chapman, good to see that our manager can motivate our fringe players with some constructive criticism.

[AllRoverAsia]

On 24/09/2017 at 16:38, blueboy3333 said:

The continued refusal to play him, especially at home, is criminal IMO. It's not like we are an effective attacking force blowing teams away without him. I'd wager half our goals this season have occurred because he's been on the pitch, his 'assists to minutes played' ratio must be the best in the country.

I also don't understand the supposed rationale for not playing him. At home we have hardly been under the cosh this season because teams come to Ewood to defend. Can we really afford to keep our most effective attacker on the bench because he may not protect possession or protect the full back etc?. Are we really that bad everywhere else on the pitch that we can't give a talented young lad the freedom to express himself and have a go at the opposition? If we played him from the start he might blow teams away by half-time and if not the oppo would be so scared of him they'd put 2 men on him and leave space elsewhere. He is a terrific talent who makes things happen.

And whether the oppo have 'tired legs' or not wouldn't make a blind bit of difference. Whether it's the 1st minute or the last Chapman is quicker than the lot of them.

Get him in the team from the start, not when it's too late. He's under pressure every time he comes on because we are normally losing.

 

This thread was started TWO YEARS ago by an excellent post, quoted above, by @blueboy3333 and we are still having the same conversations.

The only thing that's changed is that in the period Mowbray, after a long and hard courtship as admitted by Mowbray, signed Chapman on a permanent deal.

And now I see some of the Rovers faithful laying all blame for any apparent lack of development solely on the player using unfounded allegations.

Give your heads a wobble and get real.

[Ossydave]

5 hours ago, The Hypnotic said:

? surely this shows the value of some tough love from TM. Instant response from Chapman, good to see that our manager can motivate our fringe players with some constructive criticism.

Exactly.

Pretty sure this won't go unnoticed by Mowbray, he'll have him in the office Monday for a well done and keep it up chat I would have thought.

Must admit I'm a bit frustrated by the lack of involvement from Chapman because he was great last time round but that's literally all I can base opinion on so not in the best place to judge.

[Mattyblue]

Wasn’t he scoring and crediting goals for the U23s before Mowbray’s interview?

Largely because like Nuttall before him he doesn’t seem to find that level of football particularly challenging.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Mattyblue

[roversfan99]

9 hours ago, DE. said:

Travis was going to be loaned out until Smallwood was suspended at the end of 2018. That's a fact, Mowbray said as much. Travis thankfully impressed enough to make the position his, but if not for that suspension he would likely have ended up in League 1 for the next six months and who knows where he'd be in the pecking order now? Obviously no point stressing over hypotheticals but Travis' inclusion was not part of Mowbray's plans - it was something that happened due to circumstances and credit goes to Travis for stepping up when he had his opportunity.

Rothwell did the same at the end of last season, but unfortunately he was back on the bench for game one this season, which we duly lost. Still no goals from open play in the league but Rothwell remains on the bench, except for one match against Fulham which for some appears to be enough to decide he deserves to be a bench warmer for the foreseeable, forgetting how he invigorated our team at the end of last season and was a pivotal figure in rescuing us from an alarming slump. There was no justifiable reason, imo, for him to be relegated to backup again this season. Granted there are things going on in training, etc, that I'm not seeing, so maybe there's something else going on. Even so, I believe he deserves more of a chance than he's getting at the moment. 

Totally agree on Rothwell, there is no justified reasom for him starting the season on the bench. Also to a lesser extent would agree on Nyambe.

Think its unfair to blame him on Travis for hypothetical reasons, hes been a regular since he broke in.

[JBiz]

Just now, roversfan99 said:

Totally agree on Rothwell, there is no justified reasom for him starting the season on the bench. Also to a lesser extent would agree on Nyambe.

Think its unfair to blame him on Travis for hypothetical reasons, hes been a regular since he broke in.

Stewart Downing.

Elliott Bennett.

Two simple subjective, justifiable reasons why Rothwell/Nyambe haven’t started.

When they have, they’ve both looked average.

 

[JBiz]

7 hours ago, The Hypnotic said:

? surely this shows the value of some tough love from TM. Instant response from Chapman, good to see that our manager can motivate our fringe players with some constructive criticism.

If it gets a response, it’s the player - if it doesn’t, it’s the managers criticism. 

 

[JBiz]

8 hours ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

.

I like Nyambe and his non selection, for me, is the main contentious issue when it comes to Mowbray’s tactics. 

 

Im sticking to my guns with this one - Nyambe gets more a “wide centre half” every time I see him.

For 100 appearances in a rovers shirt, he is no more confident at passing or controlling with both feet than the first time I saw him.

We all know he’s fast, strong, brave, can tackle, can read games in moments like a proper defender - but if you’re playing possessive football that requires more technique, more adeptness at overlapping - he ain’t the guy, IMO. 

[Parsonblue]

10 hours ago, Stuart said:

“Rubbish that Chapman”. “Just not interested”

Having watched the game on Brighton TV, I thought Chapman did better than he had done all season.  Clearly Mowbray's message got through to him - just shows what a bit of "old fashioned management" can do.  Lets hope he can keep it up and get back in the squad.  Dominic Samuel did pretty well too which is another plus.

[Parsonblue]

Interesting that in the last couple of Under-23 games they have played Chapman in the Bradley Dack role, just behind the main striker.  This takes the pressure off him to constantly track back - presumably puts less stress on his hamstrings - and allows him to use his pace against central defenders.  It will be interesting to see if we continue with this or if it is just a short term measure to cover Jack Vale's absence due to injury.

[Stuart]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

Having watched the game on Brighton TV, I thought Chapman did better than he had done all season.  Clearly Mowbray's message got through to him - just shows what a bit of "old fashioned management" can do.  Lets hope he can keep it up and get back in the squad.  Dominic Samuel did pretty well too which is another plus.

When a player performs badly, it’s the player alone. When the player performs well, it’s the manager?

Let’s see if he gets a chance to play on the wing for the first team, or if a forward will take his place.

Just a shame we didn’t get that kind of reactionary performance in a first team game on the back of some old school man-management. All we have seen is him perform we at a level we know he is capable.

Still a long way to go before Mowbray can claim any credit with Chapman. Fortunately for Tony, if Harry doesn’t it will be entirely the player’s fault.

[Hasta]

Chapman is a game-changer who played well when coming on against Oldham.

I was dissapointed to see he didn't make the bench after that impressive cameo, 

He's surely got to be an option to sit on the bench as a wild card to throw on in the last 15 minutes of games if we need a goal. I can't believe, with the amount of subs allowed to be chosen from nowadays, he's being left out because we need the players on there to cover all options off the bench.

Edited August 31, 2019 by Hasta

[DE.]

10 hours ago, magicalmortensleftpeg said:

Smallwood and Evans are now behind Travis. Mulgrew is warming the bench for Wigan. Surely that says more than any comments made in public..?

Rothwell is older than Armstrong and Armstrong gets picked most weeks so I don’t think it’s an age issue. Furthermore, on form alone I’d select Downing ahead of  Rothwell at present. Dack came in at 24 (23?) and has been a pivotal player for us.

I like Nyambe and his non selection, for me, is the main contentious issue when it comes to Mowbray’s tactics. 

Mowbray's comments are less important than his actions. Smallwood is behind Travis but I think Evans is behind Johnson (which is also switching an older player for a younger player, albeit to a lesser extent and in this instance justified). 

Judging from the past few league games I think Mowbray's preference is Graham up top with Downing, Dack and Gallagher behind him, so I don't consider Armstrong a first teamer at the moment. He was last season but his favoured position was LW/LM, which has now been taken by Downing. No argument on Dack, although he's never had any competition for his place from an older player and it's well known he's a key player for us so dropping him is almost impossible with the way Mowbray plays. 

Honestly I'm not sure Nyambe is good enough, although his progression obviously isn't being helped by Bennett taking his place. Ideally I'd be looking at bringing in a new RB in January anyway, as imo it's one of our weakest points at present. I would not be surprised at all if Nyambe was gone by this time next year as I don't think Mowbray rates him and barring a long-term injury to Bennett I can't see him getting a solid run in the team. 

2 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

Totally agree on Rothwell, there is no justified reasom for him starting the season on the bench. Also to a lesser extent would agree on Nyambe.

Think its unfair to blame him on Travis for hypothetical reasons, hes been a regular since he broke in.

I'm not necessarily blaming Mowbray for Travis but I do think from the manager's perspective it was good fortune rather than good judgement which got Travis into the starting eleven on a permanent basis. Travis did his part in playing well when he got his chance, but the manager was ready to loan him out last January. 

https://www.clubcall.com/news/2019/01/03/travis-loan-an-option-for-mowbray/

Quote

The boss says that despite his age, Travis is not a player who is happy to bide his time on the bench and is open to loaning him out if he feels the move will benefit both the midfielder and the club.

‘I’ve had lots of conversations with Trav, and lots of conversations with maybe as many as about half a dozen managers who would like to take him on loan,’ he said.

Fortunately Travis had the ambition and drive to stay and push Smallwood out, but I don't think it's unfair to note that the manager was open to loaning him out so clearly didn't see him as a big part of his plans and was only convinced by Travis' excellent performances in January - which suggests that sometimes what's being seen on the training pitch isn't enough, sometimes a player needs to be put into proper matches to determine whether he's ready or not. 

[Pedro]

11 hours ago, The Hypnotic said:

? surely this shows the value of some tough love from TM. Instant response from Chapman, good to see that our manager can motivate our fringe players with some constructive criticism.

What's his issue with Rothwell as well then?  There is a connection with our pacey and dynamic wide men who can pull defences here there and everywhere but don't get a fair crack of the whip or dodge a public flogging-  I personally think the truth is, Mowbray had a hissyfit outburst through being sick of his judgement being questioned. His judgement has rightly been questioned throughout 2019; whether that be his continued selections of Mulgrew, Smallwood and Evans as a mundane pairing, the omission of Rothwell, the playing of a great number of players out of natural position and the whereabouts of Chapman.

I think Mowbray and his choices have been proven to be drastically wrong regarding all of the above and costly in terms of results (Chapman apart - at this moment in time as he isn't ever given opportunities). 

[Adam C]

2 hours ago, Pedro said:

What's his issue with Rothwell as well then?  There is a connection with our pacey and dynamic wide men who can pull defences here there and everywhere but don't get a fair crack of the whip or dodge a public flogging-  I personally think the truth is, Mowbray had a hissyfit outburst through being sick of his judgement being questioned. His judgement has rightly been questioned throughout 2019; whether that be his continued selections of Mulgrew, Smallwood and Evans as a mundane pairing, the omission of Rothwell, the playing of a great number of players out of natural position and the whereabouts of Chapman.

I think Mowbray and his choices have been proven to be drastically wrong regarding all of the above and costly in terms of results (Chapman apart - at this moment in time as he isn't ever given opportunities). 

I think you’re reaching here Pedro. Mowbray’s successes far outweigh his failures at all levels of his tenure here. It sometimes seems like folk have given up on him and distort the facts to make it seem like he’s damaging the club when for me he’s the best thing to happen to us post Venkys. 

I’ll just be glad if TM can get the best out of our promising young players. So far he’s brought travis and Dack on leaps and bounds, Nyambe was excellent for a spell last season, and Lenihan is now a mainstay at the back. If he can bring Chapman, JRC and Rothwell through we’ll have a very promising young squad. 

[Pedro]

34 minutes ago, The Hypnotic said:

I think you’re reaching here Pedro. Mowbray’s successes far outweigh his failures at all levels of his tenure here. It sometimes seems like folk have given up on him and distort the facts to make it seem like he’s damaging the club when for me he’s the best thing to happen to us post Venkys. 

I’ll just be glad if TM can get the best out of our promising young players. So far he’s brought travis and Dack on leaps and bounds, Nyambe was excellent for a spell last season, and Lenihan is now a mainstay at the back. If he can bring Chapman, JRC and Rothwell through we’ll have a very promising young squad. 

I don't think I am 'reaching' in the slightest. Mowbray failed to keep us up and succeeded to get us promoted. Since, he has overseen two of the worst runs of results during my 30+ years of supporting the the team. I can't think of another manager afforded that amount of time to get it right. His big money signing has so far failed miserably, his other is currently the world's largest makeshift right midfielder, he has taken an age to invest (temporarily) in the feeble defence, he is stunting the development of Nyambe by persisting with an out of position Bennett and consistently tinkers with a line up that then needs to throw square pegs in round holes after 60mins. Add to this, he is the steward of a side that with annoying regularity ships 2 or more goals and surrenders leads (more than any Rovers side I can remember). In fact, until typing this, I didn't realise just how annoyed with him I am ? We could and should do much better and the likes of other experienced men like Warnock, Houghton, Allardyce, Pardew would get much better results and a greatly reduced goals against column with these same players.

[darrenrover]

You can't help but think that there must be something sinister or an ulterior motive behind every bit of Rovers transfer activity. It's been that way for 9 years because little has made any sense.

[Hasta]

4 hours ago, The Hypnotic said:

I’ll just be glad if TM can get the best out of our promising young players. So far he’s brought travis and Dack on leaps and bounds, Nyambe was excellent for a spell last season, and Lenihan is now a mainstay at the back. If he can bring Chapman, JRC and Rothwell through we’ll have a very promising young squad. 

 

Dack was already League One player of the year. He took his chance with a better side when he came here, but most people are saying he's regressing, not coming on leaps and bounds. Nyambe can't get in the side over a struggling midfielder and 3 weeks ago we were hoping for an upgrade over any of the centre halves including Lenehan. 24 year old Rothwell isn't getting game time and Chapman hasn't  been sighted since he returned. 

The only one on your list I'd say has come on over the last 18 months is Travis who has proved to be a gem, which people who watched the Under 23's had been telling us for a while but we persisted with Evans and Smallwood for far to long before we gave the lad a chance.

 

Edited August 31, 2019 by Hasta