Harry Chapman

[Adam C]

5 hours ago, Pedro said:

I don't think I am 'reaching' in the slightest. Mowbray failed to keep us up and succeeded to get us promoted. Since, he has overseen two of the worst runs of results during my 30+ years of supporting the the team. I can't think of another manager afforded that amount of time to get it right. His big money signing has so far failed miserably, his other is currently the world's largest makeshift right midfielder, he has taken an age to invest (temporarily) in the feeble defence, he is stunting the development of Nyambe by persisting with an out of position Bennett and consistently tinkers with a line up that then needs to throw square pegs in round holes after 60mins. Add to this, he is the steward of a side that with annoying regularity ships 2 or more goals and surrenders leads (more than any Rovers side I can remember). In fact, until typing this, I didn't realise just how annoyed with him I am ? We could and should do much better and the likes of other experienced men like Warnock, Houghton, Allardyce, Pardew would get much better results and a greatly reduced goals against column with these same players.

You’re ignoring everything that’s gone well and focussing on the negatives. It’s frustrating being a rovers fan when you consider what we used to have and where we are now, but in my opinion we’re doing well considering the turmoil that’s been wrought by the Venkys. It’s easy to say that x manager would do better. Maybe TM will leave or get sacked and you’ll get your wish but I think we’d struggle to attract a decent manager of his calibre, never mind succeed under any of those you mention. 

[Adam C]

4 hours ago, Hasta said:

 

Dack was already League One player of the year. He took his chance with a better side when he came here, but most people are saying he's regressing, not coming on leaps and bounds. Nyambe can't get in the side over a struggling midfielder and 3 weeks ago we were hoping for an upgrade over any of the centre halves including Lenehan. 24 year old Rothwell isn't getting game time and Chapman hasn't  been sighted since he returned. 

The only one on your list I'd say has come on over the last 18 months is Travis who has proved to be a gem, which people who watched the Under 23's had been telling us for a while but we persisted with Evans and Smallwood for far to long before we gave the lad a chance.

 

How is Dack regressing? He was our best player last season, in the championship! He scored today! Lenihan has been immense for us. You can dislike Mowbray all you want but at least give credit where it is due. I agree it would be nice to see rothwell get more game time and brereton justify his crazy transfer fee but I can also see where Tony is succeeding and doing his best for our club. 

[rigger]

Just now, The Hypnotic said:

How is Dack regressing? He was our best player last season, in the championship! He scored today! Lenihan has been immense for us. You can dislike Mowbray all you want but at least give credit where it is due. I agree it would be nice to see rothwell get more game time and brereton justify his crazy transfer fee but I can also see where Tony is succeeding and doing his best for our club. 

The problem is his best is not good enough 

[Pedro]

1 hour ago, The Hypnotic said:

You’re ignoring everything that’s gone well and focussing on the negatives. It’s frustrating being a rovers fan when you consider what we used to have and where we are now, but in my opinion we’re doing well considering the turmoil that’s been wrought by the Venkys. It’s easy to say that x manager would do better. Maybe TM will leave or get sacked and you’ll get your wish but I think we’d struggle to attract a decent manager of his calibre, never mind succeed under any of those you mention. 

I am being very realistic and saying it as it is.  I'm not the only one who sees it this way too. I have been very supportive and sympathetic to Mowbray in the past but it is too often a case of same shit, different day. If you prefer to excuse the constant failings and abide the same old Groundhog Day performances and mistakes, that is your absolutely your right. For me, I'm sick of it and there are plenty of better options out there. If you genuinely feel that experienced managers would rather be unemployed and twiddle their thumbs than earn millions at Rovers and manage some exciting and talented players, that too is fine - but I strongly disagree. It is a fact that we turned Warnock down, he went on to get Cardiff promoted the following season.  Plenty of decent managers would love to take us on, it is an urban myth that they wouldn't.

 

[old darwen blue]

9 hours ago, The Hypnotic said:

I think you’re reaching here Pedro. Mowbray’s successes far outweigh his failures at all levels of his tenure here. It sometimes seems like folk have given up on him and distort the facts to make it seem like he’s damaging the club when for me he’s the best thing to happen to us post Venkys. 

I’ll just be glad if TM can get the best out of our promising young players. So far he’s brought travis and Dack on leaps and bounds, Nyambe was excellent for a spell last season, and Lenihan is now a mainstay at the back. If he can bring Chapman, JRC and Rothwell through we’ll have a very promising young squad. 

 

2 hours ago, The Hypnotic said:

You’re ignoring everything that’s gone well and focussing on the negatives. It’s frustrating being a rovers fan when you consider what we used to have and where we are now, but in my opinion we’re doing well considering the turmoil that’s been wrought by the Venkys. It’s easy to say that x manager would do better. Maybe TM will leave or get sacked and you’ll get your wish but I think we’d struggle to attract a decent manager of his calibre, never mind succeed under any of those you mention. 

 

1 hour ago, The Hypnotic said:

How is Dack regressing? He was our best player last season, in the championship! He scored today! Lenihan has been immense for us. You can dislike Mowbray all you want but at least give credit where it is due. I agree it would be nice to see rothwell get more game time and brereton justify his crazy transfer fee but I can also see where Tony is succeeding and doing his best for our club. 

Three likes on the trot, you speak a lot of sense with regard to us.  

[Hasta]

11 hours ago, The Hypnotic said:

How is Dack regressing? He was our best player last season, in the championship! He scored today! Lenihan has been immense for us. You can dislike Mowbray all you want but at least give credit where it is due. I agree it would be nice to see rothwell get more game time and brereton justify his crazy transfer fee but I can also see where Tony is succeeding and doing his best for our club. 

There's too many people here who's views are extremely one side or the other. No middle ground.  You presume I dislike Mowbray because I dont feel we have developed our young players, but I have not once called for him to leave over the last 18 months. Like in all pub discussions, I'll pick up on viewpoints I don't agree with and give my opinion. I actually like the guy. For example, I don't think it was a 'gimme' that we should have got out of league one, and ultimately a mid-table finish was a decent return last season. What was frustrating last season is that we threw points away which we shouldn't have done (Leeds etc..). This season I expected up to kick on for the top 6 but have been  disappointed we haven't addressed the the centre half problem, nor have we seemingly increased our firepower going forward. That's my opinion, but I can criticise the manager without wanting him hung ,drawn and quartered. To shove me in the 'disliking Mowbray' bracket is ridiculous.

However I feel he has given too many chances to the league one team and has not given certain players the opportunities they need to prove themselves (see Rothwell, Chapman), whilst others have been given more chances despite not looking up to it to justify their arrival (see Brereton, Gally may fall in this category if he persists out wide whilst we create little).

Dack was massively influencial in league one but, as I said after the Oldham game, with regards to controlling games he's looking a bit of a flat track bully. When we play inferior teams he dominates but when teams are on his 'level'. he can go missing for long spells. Fortunately he's got a goal poachers instinct so, like yesterday, he gets in the right positions and will score goals. I'd have him in my starting XI every week but, as I said, some people are saying he should have been cashed in on. Most people think he doesnt look as good as he did 12 months ago when making his Championhsip debut. For me to say regressing might have been harsh but for you to say he has come on 'leaps and bounds' under Mowbray is simply not true.

As for Lenihan, he's the same player who got us relegated. Good lad, tries hard, championship defender, not great in the air. A lot of those goals we conceded in the air last year, which Mulgrew has taken the can for, where also down to Lenihan as well (see 2 goals conceded V Charlton on the opening day. He's certainly not been immense for us. Our defensive record last year tells you this.

Edited September 1, 2019 by Hasta

[Darwen Rover 007]

Still absolutely no idea why Chapman is not in Mowbrays plans! 

[JacknOry]

2 hours ago, Darwen Rover 007 said:

Still absolutely no idea why Chapman is not in Mowbrays plans! 

The two goals he got for the u23s were superb. 

[BRFC4EVA]

Chapman nominated for PL2 player of the month in August. Obviously having a shocking time down there and needs to buck his ideas up..?

[Tom]

I’m starting to think we’ve seen the last of him here sadly, if you could have double the amount of subs he’d probably still struggle to make mowbrays bench at the moment.

With Holtby coming in and Samuel near a return I don’t think he’s likely to get near the bench anytime soon 

[MarkBRFC]

I said at the start of the season that he was miles away from our matchday squad, and like you say he seems to be slipping further behind every week.

I'd say he is behind Dack, Holtby, Armstrong, Downing, Rothwell, Buckley, probably Samuel and the way Mowbray has been talking him up this week, Butterworth at the moment.

[rigger]

3 minutes ago, MarkBRFC said:

I said at the start of the season that he was miles away from our matchday squad, and like you say he seems to be slipping further behind every week.

I'd say he is behind Dack, Holtby, Armstrong, Downing, Rothwell, Buckley, probably Samuel and the way Mowbray has been talking him up this week, Butterworth at the moment.

That is a good sign for the team, which is my priority.

[MarkBRFC]

Without a doubt.

I think we must have been able to secure the Chapman deal really cheap, with the intention of making a small profit on him at some point, I just can't see that he was bought here to be a regular in the side, Mowbray didn't fancy him in league one to start games, so he wasn't all of a sudden going to throw him in the side a level higher.

Ironically I think if he had stayed at Middlesbrough that Woodgate would have given him more first team opportunities than he will get here, he must be absolutely kicking himself for signing for another under 23 side. 

Edited September 27, 2019 by MarkBRFC

[Eddie]

I don't understand this debate. 

Chapman's career has been derailed (saying derailed to a player who never established himself is already kind) by injuries. 

He has joined us permanently with the first focus being on making sure that he is fully fit and able to have a sustained period of availability. Good for him that he's managed to string a good month together, but there's no point giving him gametime only for him to break down in his second game. 

After proving that he can play for a sustained period of time, he then has to prove that he is good enough to be ahead of certain players. 

I am sure that he gets this. I am sure that the squad gets this. 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Eddie

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

It's starting to look like he was signed to appease his fan club.

[Eddie]

Just now, Tyrone Shoelaces said:

It's starting to look like he was signed to appease his fan club.

Or we thought it was worth taking a punt on a player who has struggled with injuries, but are being cautious with his development? 

[bluebruce]

7 hours ago, MarkBRFC said:

I said at the start of the season that he was miles away from our matchday squad, and like you say he seems to be slipping further behind every week.

I'd say he is behind Dack, Holtby, Armstrong, Downing, Rothwell, Buckley, probably Samuel and the way Mowbray has been talking him up this week, Butterworth at the moment.

And Gallagher and Brereton.

[old darwen blue]

12 hours ago, Eddie said:

Or we thought it was worth taking a punt on a player who has struggled with injuries, but are being cautious with his development? 

I think that this my be the case. Don't want him breaking down again do we, or are the conspiracy theories better?

[Wegerleswiggle]

If we aren't going to play Harry anytime this season then I would send him out to Germany on loan. He is the type of player they are trying to bring into their football. He would learn so much and develop other sides to his game.

I would love to see him start every week for Rovers but obviously TM doesn't trust him yet. Shame!! 

[jim mk2]

Now then, that was one of my few live sightings of Chapman yesterday .... and I can't say I was impressed, one of the few downsides on an otherwise excellent day.

Watching him going through his paces with the other substitutes at half time, he definitely had an "attitude", a cocky player who obviously rates himself and sees himself as special. Now that's fine when you can back it up with performances on the pitch, but Chapman did nothing in his cameo appearance to justify it. His one attempt at taking on the full back was a clumsy shove of the ball past the defender and foot race that he easily lost.

What have I missed ?

[joey_big_nose]

Only contribution of note was one cracking defensive tackle. Apart from that totally anonymous.

Hard to see what future he has with us.

 

[Exiled in Toronto]

16 minutes ago, jim mk2 said:

Now then, that was one of my few live sightings of Chapman yesterday .... and I can't say I was impressed, one of the few downsides on an otherwise excellent day.

Watching him going through his paces with the other substitutes at half time, he definitely had an "attitude", a cocky player who obviously rates himself and sees himself as special. Now that's fine when you can back it up with performances on the pitch, but Chapman did nothing in his cameo appearance to justify it. His one attempt at taking on the full back was a clumsy shove of the ball past the defender and foot race that he easily lost.

What have I missed ?

Nothing. I thought yesterday was just like his other few cameos this year: no greater pace that a typical fullback and no tricks.

[roversfan99]

Was dissapointed by his predictability when running at the defender but his defensive willingness was there which surprised me. If he got 2 starts back to back at some point as did Rankin Costello I would suspect that he would have more involvement.

[Hasta]

Brereton showed nothing thing for 18 months. Long way for Harry to go to match that yet.

[BlackburnEnd75]

1 hour ago, jim mk2 said:

Now then, that was one of my few live sightings of Chapman yesterday .... and I can't say I was impressed, one of the few downsides on an otherwise excellent day.

Watching him going through his paces with the other substitutes at half time, he definitely had an "attitude", a cocky player who obviously rates himself and sees himself as special. Now that's fine when you can back it up with performances on the pitch, but Chapman did nothing in his cameo appearance to justify it. His one attempt at taking on the full back was a clumsy shove of the ball past the defender and foot race that he easily lost.

What have I missed ?

It's a real shame. The injuries look to have taken away his burst of pace. He was so exciting to watch in our league 1 season albeit briefly. That player would make an impact of the bench in the championship I'm sure of it.

Losing his pace alone means the end of his career ambitions, limits how effective he can be, add into that accusations of a bad attitude and he isnt going to cut it at this level. I'd love to be wrong.

It was a punt of a signing basically not based on logic but on mowbrays and the fans emotional connection to him.