Harry Chapman

[Stuart]

6 hours ago, Ben Frost said:

From what I have heard (crucify me now, I'm sure it will happen ) this is the final throw of the dice. Behind closed doors has been done long ago. And it's Chapman who has lost the whole dressing room (not just the manager and senior players) because of his abysmal attitude to his colleagues and the club.

He's been thrown a lifeline in the meaningless games at the end of last season and now in these few games. 

Ball entirely in his court. Some promising signs imo, but he has broken bridges to repair. 

If he can't the best for everyone is he goes, but who would take him now? 

You talk with a lot of certainty about things, and clearly a Mowbray fan. Do you work for the club?

Chapman was a Mowbray pick. Loaned him in and tried to sign him on deadline day then failed and still went back in for him later - when we didn’t really need him. He has dug him out ever since. There are certain players who can do no right and get no credit from Mowbray (Nuttall and Tomlinson being two others). He brings them into the first team and drops them like stones if they make mistakes - even if they are in goal scoring form (like Nuttall was before he was dropped for Samuel). The player’s attitude changes when they realise nothing they do will be good enough for him. Then fans blame them! Mahoney left because of Coyle but he would have been treated similarly. Always young players. Meanwhile older players who don’t perform get a free pass - Bennett, Mulgrew (for a good while).

Dolan is going to have to be a worldie every game to get his chance. That’s if he can learn to ‘play the Mowbray way’. Not looking forward to Dolan having the excitement beaten out of him (as has happened with Travis). And all because we don’t buy quality defenders! Much easier to blame young players for not tracking back.

[tomphil]

9 hours ago, Exiled in Toronto said:

He picked Rothwell far more last season than I would’ve done, he being the prime exponent of a running player who gives the ball away.

Seems clear to me it’s the lack of tracking back that’s Mowbray’s issue with him - on full display again tonight.

But he doesn't like more than one at a time on there normally unless we are chasing it.  My point with Chappers is even if he'd hit the ground running when he came permanently i doubt he was ever going to be a permanent starter.

Perhaps Chappers should be this seasons project and we should see less of Rothwell who imo is a league 1 player. With Chapman you know there's end product to his work if he's having a good day.

[Wing Wizard Windy Miller]

1 hour ago, tomphil said:

But he doesn't like more than one at a time on there normally unless we are chasing it.  My point with Chappers is even if he'd hit the ground running when he came permanently i doubt he was ever going to be a permanent starter.

Perhaps Chappers should be this seasons project and we should see less of Rothwell who imo is a league 1 player. With Chapman you know there's end product to his work if he's having a good day.

Rothwell has all the physical attributes to be a real threat at this level. The fact that he's 25 and isn't tells me he never will be now.  I think JRC and Dolan should be ahead of him in terms of team selection.

I'm a fan of Chapman and thought he was a great prospect when he first arrived on loan.  For whatever reason, he hasn't improved though and is another whom has fallen down the pecking order.  

 

To the extent  where 12 months ago, I'd have rated both head and shoulders better than Brereton. Post lock down, he seems to have physically developed/added more to his game and for me looks more likely to impact games than Rothwell or Chapman.

 

Sadly, I'd be listening to offers for both those players. 

 

[roversfan99]

6 hours ago, Stuart said:

You talk with a lot of certainty about things, and clearly a Mowbray fan. Do you work for the club?

Chapman was a Mowbray pick. Loaned him in and tried to sign him on deadline day then failed and still went back in for him later - when we didn’t really need him. He has dug him out ever since. There are certain players who can do no right and get no credit from Mowbray (Nuttall and Tomlinson being two others). He brings them into the first team and drops them like stones if they make mistakes - even if they are in goal scoring form (like Nuttall was before he was dropped for Samuel). The player’s attitude changes when they realise nothing they do will be good enough for him. Then fans blame them! Mahoney left because of Coyle but he would have been treated similarly. Always young players. Meanwhile older players who don’t perform get a free pass - Bennett, Mulgrew (for a good while).

Dolan is going to have to be a worldie every game to get his chance. That’s if he can learn to ‘play the Mowbray way’. Not looking forward to Dolan having the excitement beaten out of him (as has happened with Travis). And all because we don’t buy quality defenders! Much easier to blame young players for not tracking back.

I criticise Mowbray plenty but I just dont understand this assertion that Travis has "had the excitement beaten out of him."

He broke through and Mowbray has never had him as anything other than a first team regular since, despite predictions to the contrary from many including myself, and he is very much an all action midfielder (not one who is particularly restricted either, indeed Evans is usually more disciplined than him) who is progressing nicely.

[Stuart]

19 minutes ago, roversfan99 said:

I criticise Mowbray plenty but I just dont understand this assertion that Travis has "had the excitement beaten out of him."

He broke through and Mowbray has never had him as anything other than a first team regular since, despite predictions to the contrary from many including myself, and he is very much an all action midfielder (not one who is particularly restricted either, indeed Evans is usually more disciplined than him) who is progressing nicely.

I’m sorry you don’t understand.

[Commondore]

13 hours ago, Stuart said:

You talk with a lot of certainty about things, and clearly a Mowbray fan. Do you work for the club?

Chapman was a Mowbray pick. Loaned him in and tried to sign him on deadline day then failed and still went back in for him later - when we didn’t really need him. He has dug him out ever since. There are certain players who can do no right and get no credit from Mowbray (Nuttall and Tomlinson being two others). He brings them into the first team and drops them like stones if they make mistakes - even if they are in goal scoring form (like Nuttall was before he was dropped for Samuel). The player’s attitude changes when they realise nothing they do will be good enough for him. Then fans blame them! Mahoney left because of Coyle but he would have been treated similarly. Always young players. Meanwhile older players who don’t perform get a free pass - Bennett, Mulgrew (for a good while).

 Dolan is going to have to be a worldie every game to get his chance. That’s if he can learn to ‘play the Mowbray way’. Not looking forward to Dolan having the excitement beaten out of him (as has happened with Travis). And all because we don’t buy quality defenders! Much easier to blame young players for not tracking back.

Nuttall scored a total of 2 goals for us, and then 4 in 40 for Blackpool last season. Let's not build him into some massive example of misused potential. 

[BlackburnEnd75]

8 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

I criticise Mowbray plenty but I just dont understand this assertion that Travis has "had the excitement beaten out of him."

He broke through and Mowbray has never had him as anything other than a first team regular since, despite predictions to the contrary from many including myself, and he is very much an all action midfielder (not one who is particularly restricted either, indeed Evans is usually more disciplined than him) who is progressing nicely.

Yeah I dont buy the Travis has had his wings clipped by mowbray  argument either. I thought he was excellent for most of last season and his goal away at Boro is proof to the contrary that he doesn't get forward as much. He does still have areas to work on, like the way he takes the ball with his back to goal, he needs to open his body up more.

 

[Stuart]

9 hours ago, Commondore said:

Nuttall scored a total of 2 goals for us, and then 4 in 40 for Blackpool last season. Let's not build him into some massive example of misused potential. 

I watched a lot of Nuttall so I feel like I’m entitled to my opinion. He served his time in the U23s but never got a proper chance after being dropped from the first team when in form, simply because Samuel was back. We all know Mowbray has favourites.

More than likely he spat his dummy out and that would have been that for Mowbray. I suspect a similar situation with Chapman.

Let’s just hope that Dolan isn’t marginalised and has his attacking game curtailed. The only way young players get into our team is through work ethic, any flair or attacking bias is seen as a weakness.

[m1st]

On 27/08/2020 at 06:41, Stuart said:

.....

Let’s just hope that Dolan isn’t marginalised and has his attacking game curtailed. The only way young players get into our team is through work ethic, any flair or attacking bias is seen as a weakness.

I agree 100% with this, Stuart. I've not seen anything of Dolan's performances but all that I've read about him makes him sound like one of the most exciting prospects that we've signed in goodness knows how long. Let's hope his flair and attitude are encouraged.

I bet Knobbers' fans must be sick.

Edited August 29, 2020 by m1st

[Admiral Nelsen]

12 minutes ago, m1st said:

I agree 100% with this, Stuart. I've not seen anything of Dolan's performances but all that I've read about him makes him sound like one of the most exciting prospects that we've signed in goodness knows how long. Let's hope his flair and attitude are encouraged.

I bet Knobbers' fans must be sick.

Was just saying exactly the same to my dad. No idea what sort of career the boy will have, and one thing which is definitely coming across (other than that the lad can play) is that he's bursting at the seams seems with enthusiasm. Great, but he won't be making his debut every week so you would imagine that we'll be seeing a fairer representation of his ability after abut 10-15 games rather than now.

Even so, if I was a PNE fan, I'd be frothing at the mouth about letting him leave to another Lancashire club after seeing his performances so far. 

[Tom]

Mowbray or Savio needs to get Chappers to smarten up, lad looks a mess!

[tomphil]

He looks like he's been in lockdown for 5 years that lad.

[Stuart]

10 hours ago, Tom said:

Mowbray or Savio needs to get Chappers to smarten up, lad looks a mess!

I just see yet another young player disillusioned by Mowbray. He must look over at Armstrong who was given so much faith by the manager during his earlier lean spell and who, let’s be honest, only got into real form after he was allowed the freedom only afforded to Dack - another happy accident (a la Travis). It seems Tony only has room for 1 ‘Arte’ outfield player and 9 ‘Labores’ - chiefly because he cannot sort out our defence.

Mowbray knew the kind of player Chapman was and bought him anyway. Now when he doesn’t (or can’t) conform to the manager’s archetypal up-and-down the pitch player template, the player gets pelters (from manager and fans - and in-house commentators*).

When you keep buying square pegs for round holes you will get players that can’t be changed. That’s on the manager. Better recruitment required.

* those same commentators who decried Chapman yesterday - every combo he had with other players was used to criticise him - didn’t even flinch when Brereton made yet another glaring miss. At least he didn’t fall over his own feet this time. Anyway the point is, some players get a free pass - even if you get in trouble with the law - maybe Mulgrew has a point...

[Parsonblue]

1 minute ago, Stuart said:

I just see yet another young player disillusioned by Mowbray. He must look over at Armstrong who was given so much faith by the manager during his earlier lean spell and who, let’s be honest, only got into real form after he was allowed the freedom only afforded to Dack - another happy accident (a la Travis). It seems Tony only has room for 1 ‘Arte’ outfield player and 9 ‘Labores’ - chiefly because he cannot sort out our defence.

Mowbray knew the kind of player Chapman was and bought him anyway. Now when he doesn’t (or can’t) conform to the manager’s archetypal up-and-down the pitch player template, the player gets pelters (from manager and fans - and in-house commentators*).

When you keep buying square pegs for round holes you will get players that can’t be changed. That’s on the manager. Better recruitment required.

* those same commentators who decried Chapman yesterday - every combo he had with other players was used to criticise him - didn’t even flinch when Brereton made yet another glaring miss. At least he didn’t fall over his own feet this time. Anyway the point is, some players get a free pass - even if you get in trouble with the law - maybe Mulgrew has a point...

In fairness I really don't think Chapman's lack of progress is down to Mowbray.  At the start of last season his performance levels for the Under-23s were dreadful for a young lad trying to make an impression.  Sadly, the impression he made was the sort that would not endear him to any manager. His attitude was in stark contrast to the likes of Smallwood or Graham when they turned out for the Under-23s and took a professional pride in their performance.  Ironically, his better games were often when he was playing a more central role.  I think it's his lack of workrate that has held him back when playing out wide.  Wide players have to get back and defend as its simply part of the role of being a winger today - indeed, has been for many years.  Sadly, Chapman doesn't seem to have the ability or will to do this.  Maybe the injuries have taken something from him but at the moment he looks a long way from a Championship player.

[Stuart]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

In fairness I really don't think Chapman's lack of progress is down to Mowbray.  At the start of last season his performance levels for the Under-23s were dreadful for a young lad trying to make an impression.  Sadly, the impression he made was the sort that would not endear him to any manager. His attitude was in stark contrast to the likes of Smallwood or Graham when they turned out for the Under-23s and took a professional pride in their performance.  Ironically, his better games were often when he was playing a more central role.  I think it's his lack of workrate that has held him back when playing out wide.  Wide players have to get back and defend as its simply part of the role of being a winger today - indeed, has been for many years.  Sadly, Chapman doesn't seem to have the ability or will to do this.  Maybe the injuries have taken something from him but at the moment he looks a long way from a Championship player.

He was here on loan and Mowbray went back and bought him. Whichever way you try to paint it, this is on Mowbray.

We should never have signed him - and certainly not after he had a 12 month holiday following the original deadline day debacle.

[Eddie]

It was a gamble. We decided that it was worth taking the chance on a player with obvious talents. Clearly the risks were his attitude and his injury problems and neither has improved. We can't slate Mowbray for that. I would encourage him to take similar risks in the future and one or two of them will pay off. 

[BlackburnEnd75]

With Chapman after the hamstring injuries he has had it was obvious his pace was going to be affected. They will have or should have watched his performances for Boro under 23's and must have noticed the change in pace. 

I'm not surprised that parsonblue said his best performances came in central areas fornthe under 23's as his touch is still there but he has lost the main feature to his game, the ability to run at people. 

If we had seen this beforehand then why did we sign him? Or did they think our guys could help get it back?

[tomphil]

I wouldn't encourage it all as before you know it you have 3 or 4 on your books like that just waiting for one to come good. Proven flawed approach for a club like us that often ends up in pay offs.

Lads fit and ready for action is the way to go like Dolan then at least you can get rid if they don't make it. Nursing others to the end of their contracts because no one will take them as they are is what holds us back.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

23 minutes ago, tomphil said:

I wouldn't encourage it all as before you know it you have 3 or 4 on your books like that just waiting for one to come good. Proven flawed approach for a club like us that often ends up in pay offs.

Lads fit and ready for action is the way to go like Dolan then at least you can get rid if they don't make it. Nursing others to the end of their contracts because no one will take them as they are is what holds us back.

I thought we had enough guys who aren't strangers to the treatment table without wanting to add to them. 

Regarding Dolan I'm delighted with what I've seen so far. However we shouldn't expect too much too soon. It's easier to run people ragged when you are fresh and they've been playing for an hour.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Tyrone Shoelaces

[JacknOry]

1 hour ago, Parsonblue said:

In fairness I really don't think Chapman's lack of progress is down to Mowbray.  At the start of last season his performance levels for the Under-23s were dreadful for a young lad trying to make an impression.  Sadly, the impression he made was the sort that would not endear him to any manager. His attitude was in stark contrast to the likes of Smallwood or Graham when they turned out for the Under-23s and took a professional pride in their performance.  Ironically, his better games were often when he was playing a more central role.  I think it's his lack of workrate that has held him back when playing out wide.  Wide players have to get back and defend as its simply part of the role of being a winger today - indeed, has been for many years.  Sadly, Chapman doesn't seem to have the ability or will to do this.  Maybe the injuries have taken something from him but at the moment he looks a long way from a Championship player.

Didnt Smallwood refuse to play for the u23s?

[Parsonblue]

25 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Didnt Smallwood refuse to play for the u23s?

He played several games for the Under-23s last season.  I think there were Lancashire Cup games when players were given the option at times if they felt they needed game time to improve their fitness levels.

[SBlue]

Chapman is LIGHTYEARS behind Armstrong @Stuart, that’s why he doesn’t get played.

 

Take out a few tricks and step overs from L1 and I really haven’t ever seen him be anything other than average at best.

 

Dolan showed him up big style.

[Stuart]

15 minutes ago, S8 & Blue said:

Chapman is LIGHTYEARS behind Armstrong @Stuart, that’s why he doesn’t get played.

Take out a few tricks and step overs from L1 and I really haven’t ever seen him be anything other than average at best.

Dolan showed him up big style.

Very interested to see which direction Dolan goes in.

Armstrong was protected by Mowbray and played game after game after game while out of form. He has grown. Not every player gets that luxury.

Chapman has been turned off but seems to be being given another chance - probably through necessity (see Mulgrew tweet). I think it will end the same way because of the player that Chapman is and the player Mowbray wants him to be.

Let’s see how Mowbray treats Dolan.

[SBlue]

3 minutes ago, Stuart said:

Very interested to see which direction Dolan goes in.

Armstrong was protected by Mowbray and played game after game after game while out of form. He has grown. Not every player gets that luxury.

Chapman has been turned off but seems to be being given another chance - probably through necessity (see Mulgrew tweet). I think it will end the same way because of the player that Chapman is and the player Mowbray wants him to be.

Let’s see how Mowbray treats Dolan.

Indeed.

If there’s one bench spot though or we are chasing a goal then I already know who I would be picking.

Chapman was a cheap crowd pleasing gamble, I just don’t see it paying off though and L1 will be the absolute height of his ability and career.

[Mattyblue]

I personally think he does have the ability. However, his attitude and general approach to himself and his fitness says he’ll be in the lower leagues (if playing football at all) sooner rather than later.