Harry Chapman

[Mattyblue]

He’ll keep getting contracts in the game, because clubs will see the undoubted potential and will take a punt, but if he screwed his head on he could still have a real career. Not sure he will though.

[riverholmes]

Chapman has gone on loan to Burton until January. I suppose, but for a desperate injury  or relegation situation where Rovers need to overhaul the team or, perhaps, the advent of a new manager, mid-season, we have seen the last of him. If he does well, Burton or another club will extend it until the end of the season when his contract ends.

It is hard to make sense of why Mowbray chose to exercise the one year extension in Chapman's deal. He obviously doesn't rate him much, given that he's preferring 19/20 year old Premier League loans and, there seems minimal chance of recouping any sort of transfer fee. He'll walk on a free next year, with Rovers having expended on more wages and other fees. If he's exceptional for a few months, there's, I suppose, a small possibility of a January transfer fee but that seems a remote possibility.

Chapman's injury record isn't great and he was inconsistent, even during a really good loan spell, overall, at Shrewsbury where he scored 7 in 23, playing in a No.10 role and scoring some spectacular efforts. However, it looked as if Mowbray was prepared to give him a final chance at the club, invested in the contract extension, giving Chapman a chance to make some promising sub appearances as a winger and suddenly, he's out the door. 

Edit: A great signing for Burton, if he stays fit. With Lenihan, Carter and now Chapman, they pick well from Rovers for loan signings.

 

 

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by riverholmes

[dallydally]

Chapman isn't a Championship level footballer; no real loss

[K-Hod]

8 minutes ago, dallydally said:

Chapman isn't a Championship level footballer; no real loss

How can any of us know that, when we never get the chance to see him play in it?

[RTM08]

He looked really good against Forest but despite Tony's desperation to sign him it seems as though he's never been interested in actually playing him. Giving him a new contract just to ship him out straight away is kind of a scummy move imo. 

[arbitro]

10 hours ago, dallydally said:

Chapman isn't a Championship level footballer; no real loss

I don't disagree but why give the lad another year. This is Mowbray at his best, committing the club to money that could be spent elsewhere.

[tomphil]

Downing back last season when there was no need, 400k and a long contract to Pears, the Chapman saga.

There's a million quid down the tubes there for no good reasons at all. Then some wonder how money gets wasted here and why a lot of us think Mowbray is taking the piss.

[perthblue02]

11 hours ago, arbitro said:

I don't disagree but why give the lad another year. This is Mowbray at his best, committing the club to money that could be spent elsewhere.

Maybe they were hoping to recoup his wages with the sale of postcards from the club shop when they eventualy arrive 🙂

[bazza]

Jimmy Floyd will get more out of him than Mad Mowbray ever would.

Just watch him flourish.

[islander200]

23 hours ago, RTM08 said:

He looked really good against Forest but despite Tony's desperation to sign him it seems as though he's never been interested in actually playing him. Giving him a new contract just to ship him out straight away is kind of a scummy move imo. 

It might not be scummy to Chapman's bank balance though??He signed on for another year for a reason nobody was paying him more 

Agreed he did look good V Forest.He didn't get a fair opportunity to build on that ,will say he has been poor in the majority of his time though although never got a proper run at it either.Money was definitely made by a few off that extension

Edited September 1, 2021 by islander200

[Tom]

Convinced there’s something it an attitude or lifestyle problem there myself, mayve part of Danny Graham’s north east booze brigade.

He was warming up in front of us against West Brom, Davenport got the nod to come and and he looked in a proper sulk, stopped warming up and barely moved before being called to come on

When he did get on he showed some class and glimpses of the talent we know he has, there’s a player there, I think he’ll carve out a decent career flitting between league one and the championship, a modern day Alan Judge type, but I don’t think we’ll ever see the best of him here.

[Mattyblue]

I’m all for getting on TM’s back when required.

However, there is obviously an attitude issue with Chapman. There’s definitely a good work ethic and spirit in this squad, his demeanour stands out a mile. 

He’s without doubt got more quality than hitting 24 and playing his football at Shrewsbury and Burton, so maybe he needs to look at himself before he ends up on the scrap heap.
 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Mattyblue

[Rogerb]

Perhaps not surprising there is an attitude issue when mowbray has had him for at least three years and we have hardly seen him. Shrewsbury fans would have welcomed him back. Wish him well at Burton. Given a chance to play regularly could well shine there.

[Mattyblue]

So what? Be a professional! His warm ups are a prime example. And we also have little insight into how he trains.

His career tanks or if he spends it in L1/L2 that won’t be the fault of Tony Mowbray.

Edited September 2, 2021 by Mattyblue

[JHRover]

I'm flummoxed by the Chapman stuff.

It has been quite clear since the day he arrived here, even on loan in League One, that Mowbray doesn't like, trust, rate him enough to play him with regularity in our team.

Fair enough, you win some you lose some.

So why on earth was he given a new 12 month contract only a couple of  months ago? I've no idea how much he is on but suspect we are talking 5k a week territory. A 12 month deal must be worth a quarter of a million easy. Why do that and then loan him out to League One again? For what purpose?

I could see some business logic to it if we had extended his deal and then sold him on for a fee - that would be understandable although unlikely as any sensible buyer would have got in there first and told him not to sign a new deal here.

I wonder if he was another with a 12 month extension option in the club's favour and someone (not Mowbray) decided to activate it in the hope of recouping some value in him....then as the window went on and there was no interest and to make space on the wage bill for the Brighton loan lad we decide to send him off to Burton for a few months.

I don't think Burton will be paying his wages in full so we are back to subsidising a loan for him to play elsewhere.

[Colt Seavers]

I think it may well be a similar situation to the Ben Marshall one a few years back. Fabulously talented player with a huge amount of natural ability but a terrible attitude, so you bend over backwards and try everything you can but ultimately you can only be let down by them so often before cutting them loose.

[JacknOry]

Shrewsbury fans absolutely astonished they either; weren't in for him, or Chapman didn't want to go back to them.

They think Chapman and Cotterill didn't see eye to eye. So is probably the reason for either of those above happening. Apparently he had a strop at being subbed off one game, walked past the manager and didn't shake hands. He then started the next few from the bench.

Defo something into his attitude. Shame, because if he puts his mind to it, he is a very talented player.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Shrewsbury fans absolutely astonished they either; weren't in for him, or Chapman didn't want to go back to them.

They think Chapman and Cotterill didn't see eye to eye. So is probably the reason for either of those above happening. Apparently he had a strop at being subbed off one game, walked past the manager and didn't shake hands. He then started the next few from the bench.

Defo something into his attitude. Shame, because if he puts his mind to it, he is a very talented player.

Is he though? Recently when I saw him he looks to have put weight on, removing his quick step to get past players and I would say he is bang average championship standard, or probably lower than that 

[JacknOry]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

Is he though? Recently when I saw him he looks to have put weight on, removing his quick step to get past players and I would say he is bang average championship standard, or probably lower than that 

 

I think he is and with a run in the side he would improve his consistency. Seems his attitude has stopped that happening more than once in the past, however. TM has messed him about a bit but much of that seems to be down to the lad himself. Whatever, his career here is surely done and dusted now.

If he gets his head down and finally matures, he could be a solid Championship player I reckon. 

[Admiral Nelsen]

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

I'm flummoxed by the Chapman stuff.

It has been quite clear since the day he arrived here, even on loan in League One, that Mowbray doesn't like, trust, rate him enough to play him with regularity in our team.

Fair enough, you win some you lose some.

So why on earth was he given a new 12 month contract only a couple of  months ago? I've no idea how much he is on but suspect we are talking 5k a week territory. A 12 month deal must be worth a quarter of a million easy. Why do that and then loan him out to League One again? For what purpose?

I could see some business logic to it if we had extended his deal and then sold him on for a fee - that would be understandable although unlikely as any sensible buyer would have got in there first and told him not to sign a new deal here.

I wonder if he was another with a 12 month extension option in the club's favour and someone (not Mowbray) decided to activate it in the hope of recouping some value in him....then as the window went on and there was no interest and to make space on the wage bill for the Brighton loan lad we decide to send him off to Burton for a few months.

I don't think Burton will be paying his wages in full so we are back to subsidising a loan for him to play elsewhere.

 

Good post - pretty much exactly how I view this too.

The best case I could make for the club here is that they recognise that the club who gets the best out of Chapman have a very decent asset on their hands. Getting him in the shop window for 6 months could mean that, alongside the productive loan at Shrewsbury, we could get a half-decent fee and a sell-on percentage come January. 

 

All highly speculative, of course. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

1 hour ago, JacknOry said:

 

I think he is and with a run in the side he would improve his consistency. Seems his attitude has stopped that happening more than once in the past, however. TM has messed him about a bit but much of that seems to be down to the lad himself. Whatever, his career here is surely done and dusted now.

If he gets his head down and finally matures, he could be a solid Championship player I reckon. 

I don't see it to be honest, but that's football! 

[RoverCanada]

My assumption is we extended a contract offer for the sake of protecting the asset and giving it one last kick of the can (if it wasn't for his mini-resurgence at Shrews, I'd bet we'd have let him walk) as we were still due compensation at his age if he left on a 'free', but that offer essentially tied him to us.

I doubt there were too many L1 clubs this window willing to spend the (low) 6-figure fee we probably could command at a tribunal (plus probably above-average L1 wages), and I doubt Chapman attracted much Championship interest either. (I don't recall many, if any, rumours of clubs making cash offers for him?). Works out to him being like a borderline valuable 'restricted free agent' (RFA), if you take a North American sports perspective...

From Chapman's POV, he was also probably looking at another year here at ~£4-5k/week here vs £2-3k/week for some L1 club, so a no brainer to sign on and hope for the best.

Clearly he didn't impress enough to nail down a starting spot, so he was probably looking at a year of at most 5 starts + 15-20 subs, and he'll be pushing for starting time at this stage of his career, so fair enough to loan him out and maybe try to sell for a nominal fee in Jan (and presumably Burton are covering some wages too). I suppose the question going forward is how Proveda/Khedra turn out in comparison.

I've only seen his outing at Millwall so far this year (poor, albeit he didn't have much help on the left flank), so maybe I missed positive flashes in the other games. His quick burst is just gone with injuries and poor fitness. His Shrews loan was a welcome surprise, but, as mentioned above, more smoke that he apparently still had some sulky moments and seemingly wasn't an automatic starter despite some goals (16+7). Didn't help that he apparently got sick to start the year too (for all we know that was Mowbray covering for more poor behaviour from Chappers...).

Obviously an odd one, and I can see the case for just cutting our losses instead, but I can't see it as one to get too up in arms about.

Edited September 2, 2021 by RoverCanada

[K-Hod]

I’ll bet in many ways, it’s six of one and half a dozen of the other. But, I do have sympathy for Chapman in seeing Gallagher on the right wing a lot of the time, while we have actual wingers (including Chapman) kicking their heels on the bench….

[bluebruce]

On 02/09/2021 at 15:00, RoverCanada said:

My assumption is we extended a contract offer for the sake of protecting the asset and giving it one last kick of the can (if it wasn't for his mini-resurgence at Shrews, I'd bet we'd have let him walk) as we were still due compensation at his age if he left on a 'free', but that offer essentially tied him to us.

I doubt there were too many L1 clubs this window willing to spend the (low) 6-figure fee we probably could command at a tribunal (plus probably above-average L1 wages), and I doubt Chapman attracted much Championship interest either. (I don't recall many, if any, rumours of clubs making cash offers for him?). Works out to him being like a borderline valuable 'restricted free agent' (RFA), if you take a North American sports perspective...

From Chapman's POV, he was also probably looking at another year here at ~£4-5k/week here vs £2-3k/week for some L1 club, so a no brainer to sign on and hope for the best.

Clearly he didn't impress enough to nail down a starting spot, so he was probably looking at a year of at most 5 starts + 15-20 subs, and he'll be pushing for starting time at this stage of his career, so fair enough to loan him out and maybe try to sell for a nominal fee in Jan (and presumably Burton are covering some wages too). I suppose the question going forward is how Proveda/Khedra turn out in comparison.

I've only seen his outing at Millwall so far this year (poor, albeit he didn't have much help on the left flank), so maybe I missed positive flashes in the other games. His quick burst is just gone with injuries and poor fitness. His Shrews loan was a welcome surprise, but, as mentioned above, more smoke that he apparently still had some sulky moments and seemingly wasn't an automatic starter despite some goals (16+7). Didn't help that he apparently got sick to start the year too (for all we know that was Mowbray covering for more poor behaviour from Chappers...).

Obviously an odd one, and I can see the case for just cutting our losses instead, but I can't see it as one to get too up in arms about.

Decent theory, that I've considered too - we offered him the lowest deal we could that would keep us eligible for compensation (same wages but only 1 year). We probably expected him to leave for compo. But nobody matched those wages (as his main pool of interest would be League One) so he ended up deciding to sign our offer.

I would think there would be an opportunity at that point for us to withdraw the offer, but I suppose we thought our squad was thin at the time and there was still a chance of him stepping up to this level properly if opportunities opened up over the season. Plus someone might still have tried to pay a bit to land him (unlikely though). Not to mention it looks bad to withdraw the offer, especially for nice guy Tony who always has the players' financial security at heart...

[markhayhurst]

On 02/09/2021 at 15:00, RoverCanada said:

My assumption is we extended a contract offer for the sake of protecting the asset and giving it one last kick of the can (if it wasn't for his mini-resurgence at Shrews, I'd bet we'd have let him walk) as we were still due compensation at his age if he left on a 'free', but that offer essentially tied him to us.

I doubt there were too many L1 clubs this window willing to spend the (low) 6-figure fee we probably could command at a tribunal (plus probably above-average L1 wages), and I doubt Chapman attracted much Championship interest either. (I don't recall many, if any, rumours of clubs making cash offers for him?). Works out to him being like a borderline valuable 'restricted free agent' (RFA), if you take a North American sports perspective...

From Chapman's POV, he was also probably looking at another year here at ~£4-5k/week here vs £2-3k/week for some L1 club, so a no brainer to sign on and hope for the best.

Clearly he didn't impress enough to nail down a starting spot, so he was probably looking at a year of at most 5 starts + 15-20 subs, and he'll be pushing for starting time at this stage of his career, so fair enough to loan him out and maybe try to sell for a nominal fee in Jan (and presumably Burton are covering some wages too). I suppose the question going forward is how Proveda/Khedra turn out in comparison.

I've only seen his outing at Millwall so far this year (poor, albeit he didn't have much help on the left flank), so maybe I missed positive flashes in the other games. His quick burst is just gone with injuries and poor fitness. His Shrews loan was a welcome surprise, but, as mentioned above, more smoke that he apparently still had some sulky moments and seemingly wasn't an automatic starter despite some goals (16+7). Didn't help that he apparently got sick to start the year too (for all we know that was Mowbray covering for more poor behaviour from Chappers...).

Obviously an odd one, and I can see the case for just cutting our losses instead, but I can't see it as one to get too up in arms about.

Maybe come January he might get a chance if Mowbray isn’t managing. He responded well to a different manager at Shrews so IMO a clash of personalities with Mowbray is perhaps why he isn’t playing not his undoubted potential.