[Archived] Blackburn Rovers FC v Plymouth Argyle FC

[den]

On 13/10/2017 at 17:14, bob fleming said:

Tuesday October 17 2017 7.45pm

 

It’s probably about time I did this preview. Or rather I’d rather it wasn’t if you know what I mean. Argyle, you see, have been below us (OK, occasionally on a par with us – read on) for as long as I can remember, in fact longer than I can remember, and possibly just before that as well. That’s just the way it’s been, no disrespect to them here.

 

So we’ve ended up in Division 3 and we get to play them after they were promoted last year and we… well we all know about us, we did the opposite.

 

There have been some fairly significant games between the clubs over the years. The first that I’m aware of goes down in folklore I think it’s safe to say…

 

Saturday 15 February 1975. Blackburn Rovers 5 Plymouth Argyle 2

I was five. I wasn’t there. Chances are, neither were many of you (prepare to be proven wrong bob!). 

 

In case you haven’t seen it before this is a great read…

https://www.brfcs.com/mb/index.php?/forums/topic/13810-rovers-5-plymouth-2/

 

The Argyle keeper clearly had one eye on the future and chucked five in.

 

Saturday 12 October 1991. Blackburn Rovers 5 Plymouth Argyle 2

Let’s fast forward 16 years to this game. Could it be true? Was it really happening? Kenny Dalglish?!??

 

Yes, yes it could. I couldn’t believe it and neither could you I expect. 

 

Hither: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IfvjGTbEdo0

 

(Good result for Hearts there by the way).

 

Goal scorers: Moran, Garner x2 and Speedie x2.

 

Saturday 02 May 1992. Plymouth Argyle 1 Blackburn Rovers 3

Fast forward again. The wheels were coming off in spectacular fashion. We needed to win this one to get into the play offs after at one stage looking like running away with it. Unfortunately for Argyle I seem to recall they needed to win as well to avoid relegation.

 

Speedie got a hat trick. What a player he was.

 

This was when inflatables were all the rage. A few bananas, and a massive crocodile. Funny what you remember 25 years on.

 

One guy next to us on the terraces, having made the long trip that morning presumably, simply couldn’t bear to watch. He decided to sit on the terracing for the entire second half and missed the lot. That’s where we were at the time though – we wanted promotion so, so, much. And of course we finally did it that season, and in some style, at Wembley after those two absolutely epic games against Derby County. Here’s the 3-1 win: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-olyk5XCIg  

 

The coach took hours to get back, we ended up back in Blackburn at something like midnight. Mr G’s nightclub emporium just wasn’t the same sober let me assure you.

 

Saturday 02 January 2016 - Carlisle United 0 Plymouth Argyle 2 – Ewood Park

Then of course there was this game. Carlisle was flooded so they moved it to Ewood you’ll recall. I went in the away end – i.e. Nuttall Street enclosure, Darren End side. This was Argyle’s last visit. They won with two goals from Ryan Brunt, who now plays for Argyle’s arch rivals exeter. They can just pack that winning at Ewood in right now.

 

And so on to next week’s game. First and foremost fair play to any Argyle fan making the long journey. A 9 to 10 hour round trip if their lucky I’d imagine.

 

What of the teams and form?

 

Well we know about Rovers of course. And do bear in mind that this has been posted before the win / draw / loss / postponement at Oldham.

 

Argyle aren’t doing very well. They took a single point in League 1 in September and also lost their last league game before Saturday (11^th). They did however beat exeter on penalties a couple of weeks ago. But one win all season means they are surely due another soon. As is the BRFCS way, my advice is to get your money on their main striker to end his goal drought on Tuesday. That’s Jake Jervis by the way. He has two goals to date.

 

Prediction? 5-2 to us of course. Although I don’t see how Argyle will get two. Or us five for that matter. So, while not inevitable it’s just bound to happen

 

Just read this preview. Great stuff Bob, great times brought back via links and YouTube. That Plymouth home game was indeed as special as it was made out.

much easier to stick with the memories these days. The swines can’t ever take those away. They’ll never know what it was like to be a fan back then.

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, Eddie said:

Our recent performances have been good. Our team is settling into a new league, something that history will tell us often takes time. If we were 18th in the table I could understand hitting the panic button, but the amount of criticism being levelled at the team is amazing when we are sitting just off the playoffs with a game or two in hand on the teams above us. 

This is a great opportunity to pick up 3 points at home, to get another win that will boost our goal difference as well, and a good chance that we will be back in the top 6 by the end of the night. 

I'm confident of a win by 2 or 3 goals. 

 

I noticed your location as Paris. Have you seen the games were you say the performances have been good? 

[Eddie]

My location is in Paris. I have yet to attend a match in person this season and I appreciate that certain aspects of performances are difficult to judge when you cannot see the entire pitch and view things happening off the ball and have a true sense of our shape, but I have been able to see all of our matches live on TV and will watch every match we play this season. 

Even given the slight disadvantage of watching matches on TV versus being in person, I still think that puts me in a position to make a decent assessment of how we have played so far this season. 

[chaddyrovers]

13 hours ago, roversfan99 said:

You keep mentioning Danny Graham, as if his occasional 15 minute cameos are one of the main reasons that we are so inconsistent.

Your line about Harper and Hart shows that you aren't understanding or readings whats been said, my point was NOT regarding their quality, it was in regards to Mowbray insufficiently signing players to fill the necessary gaps in our squad, instead signing players nowhere near the first team.

Spurs have almost exclusively played with a back 3 of Sanchez, Alderweireld and Vertonghen. They are capable of playing 4-2-3-1 because they have had practically the same squad for years in which they have played it then, but its usually 3 at the back, Alli and Eriksen off Kane.

Our team isnt gelling because many are new players and Mowbray doesnt know how to use them. You are seemingly refusing to accept that Mowbray is at least partially to blame for our below-par start, instead just saying the players are not trying, and it is infuriating because you dont read what people put, as proven here.

Under 23 football is not a fair example.

Graham should be our main striker but because of his poor, lazy, cba attitude he hasn't even been coming off the bench. 

Spurs have played both systems throughout the seasons and with success. 

Mowbray has to take some of the blame but so should the players who cant keep expecting to get off lighter. 

I wonder why you say under 23's isn't a fair example

13 hours ago, Blue blood said:

The should adapt to any formation is horse manure. In any other job if you keep switching people's roles they will struggle and likewise in football. That's why as people keep saying formations and familiarity are so important. All good teams have one or two systems only - I'd challenge you to think of any successful team that played more than 2 formations regularly in a season.

As for 5 cbs - one's often crocked, one's a kid and one is crap. Doesn't leave us with much does it? And given we've clearly got a shortage there, TM has worked with Ward for a while and Lenihan got injured before the window closed there's not much excuse for being caught short.

I'm sorry but with my work we have to know at least 4 job roles within the warehouses and then we can cover all situations. 

Modern day players have it far too easy for me. 

 

1 hour ago, JHRover said:

I'm not sure I would describe our recent performances as good. Wins away at Bradford and Scunthorpe were big results and workmanlike ground out victories. Shrewsbury away was dire. Gillingham at home was painful after half time but fortunately we held on. Rotherham we were excellent in the first half and quite poor in the second.

Wigan and Rotherham are settling into a new league also. How come they don't need time with new managers and less money spent than us?

Out of interest, how many weeks/games need to have elapsed before the settling in period is over with? 20? 30? All season?

At the end of the season if we finish 7th or 17th it is largely irrelevant. So being 'just outside' the play-off spots is materially no better than finishing 'just outside' the relegation spots. The end result is the same - another year at this level, another year for Cheston to slash costs, another year of downsizing and falling ticket sales.

Tonight is a good opportunity to win and get 3 points. So was Saturday, so was Wimbledon and so was Doncaster but time and time again we've failed to do it when the chance arises to close in on the top positions. Win-lose-draw-win cycles all season long won't get us to where we want to be, where the manager has repeatedly said we need to be - top 2.

Wins at Bradford and Scunthorpe were good results and very workmanlike results like you said. we were excellent against Rotherham and their manager said we were the best team they played so far. 

Warne was Rotherham manager last season. 

Wigan will have a bad spell of results. Will Cook be sack by the new Wigan owners. 

I would suggest you look at Sheffield united results last season and how they had settling in period before comfortable winning this league. 

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

. 

I would suggest you look at Sheffield united results last season and how they had settling in period before comfortable winning this league. 

Sheffield United had the best home form in the country and didn't lose a game after January. They lost 3 games out of 42 from the end of August until May.

I would love to know what you have seen thus far to make you think this manager and squad is capable of that sort of performance, bearing in mind defeat number 4 has just been clocked. If we're comparing to Sheffield United last season that means we can lose 2 more from our remaining 35 games. Think that's going to happen?

[arbitro]

4 minutes ago, Eddie said:

My location is in Paris. I have yet to attend a match in person this season and I appreciate that certain aspects of performances are difficult to judge when you cannot see the entire pitch and view things happening off the ball and have a true sense of our shape, but I have been able to see all of our matches live on TV and will watch every match we play this season. 

Even given the slight disadvantage of watching matches on TV versus being in person, I still think that puts me in a position to make a decent assessment of how we have played so far this season. 

There has been the occasional good spell but overall the standard has been average at best, even in games we have won. Playing poorly would be palatable if we were winning or picking put points but the games we have lost we have generally been poor - a fact acknowledged by Mowbray.

[frosty]

Please can we ban any talk of Sheffield United last season, I'm sick of hearing about them and it isn't relevant at all.

[Eddie]

Our performances in all of the games that we have lost have been poor. 

Our performances in a couple of the games that we have won has been very good. 

The rest have been average to good. 

[arbitro]

Just now, Eddie said:

Our performances in all of the games that we have lost have been poor. 

Our performances in a couple of the games that we have won has been very good. 

The rest have been average to good. 

There have been some good spells in the games we have won which has been acknowledged by many. To generalise and say we have been very good is frankly nonsense.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

All eyes on you and the team tonight Mr Mowbray...a win is required and demanded.

[Eddie]

Just now, arbitro said:

There have been some good spells in the games we have won which has been acknowledged by many. To generalise and say we have been very good is frankly nonsense.

Saying that our performance in a couple of our wins has been very good is generalising? 

I think that's actually the total opposite of generalising. 

[davulsukur]

5 minutes ago, frosty said:

Please can we ban any talk of Sheffield United last season, I'm sick of hearing about them and it isn't relevant at all.

Similar to when we were relegated to the championship.

"We'll do a Newcastle"

[arbitro]

Just now, Eddie said:

Saying that our performance in a couple of our wins has been very good is generalising? 

I think that's actually the total opposite of generalising. 

You are implying that in those games we were very good. That is a generalisation. If you said we were very good in parts that would have been specific (unless you believe we were very good for the 90 minutes).

[RV Blue]

3 hours ago, Eddie said:

Our recent performances have been good.

In our last 5 games, was our performance good or better:

Oldham away - no.

Gillingham at home - no.

Rotherham at home - yes.

Shrewsbury away - no.

Wimbledon at home - no.

Not sure where you've pulled that rubbish from.

[chaddyrovers]

22 minutes ago, JHRover said:

Sheffield United had the best home form in the country and didn't lose a game after January. They lost 3 games out of 42 from the end of August until May.

I would love to know what you have seen thus far to make you think this manager and squad is capable of that sort of performance, bearing in mind defeat number 4 has just been clocked. If we're comparing to Sheffield United last season that means we can lose 2 more from our remaining 35 games. Think that's going to happen?

Bolton who finished 2nd last season lost 10 games. 

Burton who finished 2nd the season before lost 11 games. Wigan lost 7 games and won the league

Mk Dons who finished 2nd the season before lost 9 games. Bristol City lost 5 games won the league

The squad will start gelling more and we will start getting more used to this league. 

[chaddyrovers]

2 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

In our last 5 games, was our performance good or better:

Oldham away - no.

Gillingham at home - no.

Rochdale at home - yes.

Shrewsbury away - no.

Wimbledon at home - no.

Not sure where you've pulled that rubbish from.

last 7 games were

Oldham Away- Lost - poor performance

Gillingham at home - won - poor performance

Rotherham at home - won- Good Performance

Shrewbury away - draw - poor performance

Wimbledon at home - lost - poor performance

Scunthorpe away - won - decent performance

Rochdale away - won - good performance

That's 4 wins out of 7 games with 2 games lost and 1 draw

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Bolton who finished 2nd last season lost 10 games. 

Burton who finished 2nd the season before lost 11 games. Wigan lost 7 games and won the league

Mk Dons who finished 2nd the season before lost 9 games. Bristol City lost 5 games won the league

The squad will start gelling more and we will start getting more used to this league. 

Fair points but we're on course to lose 15 or 16 at the current rate of knots.

[NinjaTattoo]

The ideal of players gelling etc is aload of tosh, not just Rovers but the whole myth of teams need time to gel. Its not like  joe bloggs starting a new job and learning the ropes, these guys have been playing football probably 10+yrs. 

The operate of football isnt that different, a new player to a squad should be able to hit the ground running, new manager new tatics how many times have new manager syndrome kicked in at the first match. These guys have had preseason and now we are 11 games in which is all but 3 months . 1 game maybe a bit rusty in a physical sense, Id say it takes 6 games for someone to get match fit after an injury so at the 11 game stage we are still talking about gelling tbh I think its BS.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

last 7 games were

Oldham Away- Lost - poor performance

Gillingham at home - won - poor performance

Rotherham at home - won- Good Performance

Shrewbury away - draw - poor performance

Wimbledon at home - lost - poor performance

Scunthorpe away - won - decent performance

Rochdale away - won - good performance

That's 4 wins out of 7 games with 2 games lost and 1 draw

I was at the Rochdale game . First half was just about passable. Second half was good.

I was also at the Oldham game . First half poor. Second half abysmal. 

[RevidgeBlue]

5 hours ago, Wing Wizard Windy Miller said:

He needs to start using the younger players.  Get Travis and Doyle in the full back roles a mid 3 of Smallwood, Tomlinson (evans when fit) and Dack - front 2 of Samuel and Nuttall (who can both run the channels) and play Chapman in a free role behind them. 

Let teams worry about us.  

Rankin Costello should be on the bench.

Completely agree. I'd have given Tomlinson a go in CM in place of Evans a long while ago although I think he has been recently injured and recovering from some form of knee operation.

As someone else said on another post its becoming obvious TM has his favourites and those players know their position is under no threat no matter how badly they play as it would appear TM won't even consider the youngsters on account of their age.

[Bigdoggsteel]

37 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Bolton who finished 2nd last season lost 10 games. 

Burton who finished 2nd the season before lost 11 games. Wigan lost 7 games and won the league

Mk Dons who finished 2nd the season before lost 9 games. Bristol City lost 5 games won the league

The squad will start gelling more and we will start getting more used to this league. 

Did they play poorly in most of their first 10 games? 

[RevidgeBlue]

12 hours ago, blueboy3333 said:

http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/15599098.Tony_Mowbray_wants_positive_Rovers_reaction_against_Plymouth_Argyle_with_places_up_for_grabs/?ref=mac

'Positive from the off'.... 'high-energy'..... 'gamble the game'.....'the dice will roll'.....'on the front foot'....'high pressure'

A) BS bingo,  B) a manager under pressure trying to appease the fans,  C) a realisation that after 4 defeats already he might as well go down trying to win instead of trying not to lose?  

"It was not a clear the air meeting"

It bloody well should have been! It appears the "collective" approach and players "taking ownership" is part of where we're going wrong. That sort of approach works when everyone is pulling their tripe out and has earnt the right and necessary respect over a period of time to be heard but Mowbray now needs to lay the law down and stamp his authority as manager.

Can you imagine Clough, Ferguson or Dalglish asking the players how they thought things should be done?

[Dreams of 1995]

57 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Did they play poorly in most of their first 10 games? 

Not only that, he's using them figures as a way to justify losing 4 games so far but he's being too silly to realise that he's actually proving the "sack Mowbray" side right.

Bolton lost 10 games in 46 equating to 21%

Burton lost 11 games in 46 equating to 23%

Wigan 7 in 46 equating to 15%

Bristol City 5 in 46 equating to 11%

So far we have lost 4 from 11 which equates to 36%.

If we lose 36% of our games we will lose 17 games. That isn't even play off form.

[tomphil]

I might be wrong but i think a Bolton fan told me they won their first 3 or 4 or something ?

If so it certainly gave them a platform the likes of which we haven't had and i think saying we are bang on course for the top 2 and again assuming games in hand are as good as points in the bag is as naive as some of the tactics employed earlier this season.

You don't win games if you don't have a go at doing so.

[dallydally]

Essential to get three points tonight and on Saturday or our season is truly faltering