[Archived] ROVERS VS WIGAN

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

I'd have taken a point at 3.00 yesterday. I'd have taken a point for sure when we went down to 10 and then to 9 men. We've drawn away to the top two sides in the league at the moment. You can't knock that from a results point of view. If we'd have been playing against 9 men at home and failed to score this board would have exploded ! It's the games like the ones at Southend and Oldham that will hurt us in the end. We're not conceding but we're also not scoring. Mainly because we're not making anything like enough real goal scoring chances. I would argue that our over cautious style of play is responsible for that.

I was only thinking the other week we'd done really well regarding red cards then we get two in two games. We can only blame Samuel for the first one but yesterday's was a bit harsh going off that video. I'm all in favour of clamping down on diving, it's a cancer that's killing the game, but I thought the ref got that one wrong. From what I've seen this season the referees are card happy and are booking players for " offences " that wouldn't even merit a free kick in years gone by. It would have just been " play on ". Today nearly every coming together leads to a free kick one way or the other.

It looks like we'll have a few missing on Tuesday , especially in midfield, so I expect the likes of Tomlinson to maybe get a game. Is Evans fit enough to play ? The guy seems to miss more games than he actually plays. Maybe move Champagne Charlie into central midfield and play Wharton at centre half ?

[Mercer]

6 hours ago, chaddyrovers said:

Exactly Gav. Sad old rubbish from the same posters. 

We are 7th with 2 games in hand and still far too many people are panicking this earlier on in the season. Patience is need and require here

No it's not rubbish, it's being realistic.

Stop being an apologist.

Cook under worse circumstances at Wigan (don't forget Mowbray had months of games last seaon to assess and put a pattern of play into operation - Cook went cold into this season) has got his side off to the flying start all Rovers' fans hoped and expected Mowbray to.

Irrespective of how average Wigan seemed yesterday, I will bet you as much as you like they finish higher than Rovers simply because they have a manager who knows what he's about.

[JacknOry]

8 hours ago, Gav said:

The manager gave a really good interview on Friday where he talked about trying to create a winning mentality at a club where losing has become acceptable and the norm.

He talked about Danny Graham being the only member of the side to start against Wigan the last time we played them, really insightful stuff about transient players and turnover off staff, trying to create a team from a bunch of strangers.

The thread has 8 replies, no acknowledgment of the job in hand, just the usual sh1te slagging the manager off, it's boring and offers nothing to the debate.

Calling for the managers head like you and your mates do at every turn is very suspicious to me, you can't all be that stupid, nobody in the real world agrees with you, so you must have another reason, another motive, or you're on the wind up?

 

The usual condescending rubbish from you. Always calling others stupid when you cannot even comprehend the fact that we are massively underperforming in our quest to hit our own managers targets. 

• Bookies favourites to win the league at the start of the season.
• Highest wage bill in the division.
• Biggest net spend in the transfer window.
• Kept best players in said window.
• Manager states he wont be much of a manager if he cannot get this squad promoted.

We always hear the 'gelling' excuse that he always sets in motion before every game despite Wigan bringing in more players and making more changes that we did. Amazing how they have managed to 'gel' so quickly with a brand new manager where ours was with us for the last few months of last season.

The difference between us and Wigan is that they have a manager that knows what he is doing - simple.

In isolation the result yesterday was a good one. However, seeing as we started the game 12 points behind our 'supposedly' title rivals due to some awful results earlier in the season which can only put down to the manager, we really needed to go at them to cut the lead. As it turns out, Wigan looked pretty bog standard which only goes to further show how inept TM has been this season.

I want the guy to do well but he needs to walk the talk. 

[blueboy3333]

8 hours ago, Gav said:

He talked about Danny Graham being the only member of the side to start against Wigan the last time we played them, really insightful stuff about transient players and turnover off staff, trying to create a team from a bunch of strangers.

The thread has 8 replies, no acknowledgment of the job in hand, just the usual sh1te slagging the manager off, it's boring and offers nothing to the debate

Everything in context, Gav. Someone did this a few weeks ago and said Shrewsbury had a more settled team than Rovers and that was the reason they were doing well, when actually the reality was we both had the same number of players on the pitch when we met that were at our respective clubs the season before. Same with Wigan yesterday, we both had 6 players on the pitch that we're at our clubs last season. They also have a brand new manager and coaching staff that have been at Wigan for less time than Mowbray has been here.

Wigan and Shrewsbury are doing a lot better than us, and in both cases with less resources (in Shrewsbury's case, far less resources).

His excuse doesn't wash, but it is instructive that he is trying to manipulate facts to suit his own agenda.

 

[RV Blue]

Yesterday showed that we have a squad of players that is at least as good as Wigan's (it is probably better), but we have a poor manager and they have a decent manager. There is no way that we should be 12 points behind that lot. If we don't beat Fleetwood then Mowbray must go, and we won't get a better opportunity to sack him as there will be about 10 days until the next league fixture.

[Gav]

5 hours ago, AllRoverAsia said:

I read the Mowbray dispatch before it appeared on this MB.

The majority of those 8 replies you mention are reasoned argument.

All of the teams in this league are subject to high player turnover and an early season 'bedding' in process, it is not just at Rovers. Others have coped better.....

I, for one, want an auto promotion spot and, currently, have little confidence in Mowbray being able to get us up via the end of season playoffs. I hate the playoff concept if Rovers are involved. Palace is a scar to this day and not healed by subsequent success.

We are currently just about on target for the playoffs which is below Mowbray's own target. Great overall improvement is needed.

At least we get the Fleetwood 'game in hand' out of the way on Tuesday, let's see how that pans out.

Have another read Asia, they're all slagging the manager off and hardly a mention of turnover of staff or losing mentalities, its just bash the manager again, short sighted, hanging on to his every word looking for a stick to beat the guy with, whilst ignoring the crux of the matter.

Strange to me, and not what most fans you talk to in the real world actually think.

[Gav]

15 minutes ago, Mercer said:

No it's not rubbish, it's being realistic.

Stop being an apologist.

Cook under worse circumstances at Wigan (don't forget Mowbray had months of games last seaon to assess and put a pattern of play into operation - Cook went in cold into this season) has got his side off to the flying start all Rovers' fans hoped and expected Mowbray to.

Irrespective of how average Wigan seemed yesterday, I will bet you as much as you like they finish higher than Rovers simply because they have a manager who knows what he's about.

We always have this one, "Look at how well Shrewsbury are doing" "Well look at Scunthorpe, they're not struggling" "Look at Wigan, new manager" "Look at the next side that puts a run together" blah blah blah.

How about looking at the other 21 sides that aren't sitting in the top 2 promotion places for a change? Are they all to be sacked? do they have managers that are useless? or is it just us?

The only manager you've ever liked mercer was Coyle! and he was at Bolton at the time! and we all know how that ended up!

[blueboy3333]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

Ive said it before and I'll say it again, at this point in time; firing TM will make us LESS LIKELY to be promoted because of the farce that will likely follow.

I remember people wetting themselves with delight when Lambert was brought in....within days of Bowyer being sacked. So it's not guaranteed to be a disaster, but it is likely if they go down the Coyle/Kean route. So firing TM could go either way in reality if they actually pick a better manager.

[JacknOry]

Just now, Gav said:

We always have this one, "Look at how well Shrewsbury are doing" "Well look at Scunthorpe, they're not struggling" "Look at Wigan, new manager" "Look at the next side that puts a run together" blah blah blah.

How about looking at the other 21 sides that aren't sitting in the top 2 promotion places for a change? Are they all to be sacked? do they have managers that are useless? or is it just us?

The only manager you've ever liked mercer was Coyle! and he was at Bolton at the time! and we all know how that ended up!

Did all the 21 other clubs managers set top 2 as their target? Did they spend 1.5 mil on players? Do they have the largest wage bills in the division? 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Gav said:

We always have this one, "Look at how well Shrewsbury are doing" "Well look at Scunthorpe, they're not struggling" "Look at Wigan, new manager" "Look at the next side that puts a run together" blah blah blah.

How about looking at the other 21 sides that aren't sitting in the top 2 promotion places for a change? Are they all to be sacked? do they have managers that are useless? or is it just us?

The only manager you've ever liked mercer was Coyle! and he was at Bolton at the time! and we all know how that ended up!

Mowbray is using the 'newness' of the team blah blah to justify the teams failings so far this season. You brought it up. The facts are, as I pointed out, that Wigans team is just as 'new' as ours and their coaching team even newer. Mowbray's excuse doesn't wash, as the performance of Wigan and Shresbury show.  And if you want to extrapolate this to every team in the league you'll most certainly lose that argument too. Nearly every team in the lower leagues has a huge turnover of players every summer, mainly because a lot of teams rely on loans and free transfers to build their squads. Mowbray has had a huge budget in comparison to every other team in this division.

[Gav]

20 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

The usual condescending rubbish from you. Always calling others stupid when you cannot even comprehend the fact that we are massively underperforming in our quest to hit our own managers targets. 

• Bookies favourites to win the league at the start of the season.
• Highest wage bill in the division.
• Biggest net spend in the transfer window.
• Kept best players in said window.
• Manager states he wont be much of a manager if he cannot get this squad promoted.

We always hear the 'gelling' excuse that he always sets in motion before every game despite Wigan bringing in more players and making more changes that we did. Amazing how they have managed to 'gel' so quickly with a brand new manager where ours was with us for the last few months of last season.

The difference between us and Wigan is that they have a manager that knows what he is doing - simple.

In isolation the result yesterday was a good one. However, seeing as we started the game 12 points behind our 'supposedly' title rivals due to some awful results earlier in the season which can only put down to the manager, we really needed to go at them to cut the lead. As it turns out, Wigan looked pretty bog standard which only goes to further show how inept TM has been this season.

I want the guy to do well but he needs to walk the talk. 

Quite simply Jack, you're expecting us to finish in the top 2 because the manager said that was his aim at the Q&A?

So until we sit top 2 you think he's failing at his job and should be sacked after every game we lose, but you'll give him a pass for a good result in isolation? The reason I say this is because you're one of the posters calling for his after head on a regular basis, after Plymouth draw in particular.

As for Wigan, they're just the latest benchmark to hammer the manager with, maybe TM's tactics made Wigan look ordinary? now theres a thought......

 

[JacknOry]

Just now, Gav said:

Quite simply Jack, you're expecting us to finish in the top 2 because the manager said that was his aim at the Q&A?

So until we sit top 2 you think he's failing at his job and should be sacked after every game we lose, but you'll give him a pass for a good result in isolation? The reason I say this is because you're one of the posters calling for his after head on a regular basis, after Plymouth draw in particular.

As for Wigan, they're just the latest benchmark to hammer the manager with, maybe TM's tactics made Wigan look ordinary? now theres a thought......

 

Do you think he will get top 2? Are we on course for that? 

Yes called for his head after Plymouth and was far from the only one. Wigan played for a draw as they expected us to go at them like any promotion rival team so far behind them would be. They were shocked to find that we were also playing for a draw - which resulted in a turgid game from both teams. Them playing for a draw at home shows that even they feel we are much better than our position.A draw suited them far better than us.

[JBiz]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

I remember people wetting themselves with delight when Lambert was brought in....within days of Bowyer being sacked. So it's not guaranteed to be a disaster, but it is likely if they go down the Coyle/Kean route. So firing TM could go either way in reality if they actually pick a better manager.

I was impressed, surprised and genuinely enthused by the Lambert appointment, but the lack of support from above that he'd either asked for/been promised didn't materialise thus he scarpered. Hence even the best two scenarios *created by the Rao decisions, GB was already at the club (imo would end up a similar decent but "meh" if we promoted DJ) and the Lambert "No money?" Walk... on that basis my patience for TM is extended somewhat.

I can't fathom the perspective of fans that can miss this in their own assessment.

To me, the only way we get promoted this season is through patience and gradual improvement. If we are dropping like a stone, it's a different matter - but thus far we've only performed well in patches and we're are still in a decent position.

*created - I mean stumbled upon in a criminally negligent manner! 

 

[blueboy3333]

31 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

The thread has 8 replies, no acknowledgment of the job in hand, just the usual sh1te slagging the manager off, it's boring and offers nothing to the debate.

You seem to be avoiding the subject now that people have provided you with a reasoned debate, which is ironic considering the above diatribe.

[Gav]

21 minutes ago, blueboy3333 said:

Everything in context, Gav. Someone did this a few weeks ago and said Shrewsbury had a more settled team than Rovers and that was the reason they were doing well, when actually the reality was we both had the same number of players on the pitch when we met that were at our respective clubs the season before. Same with Wigan yesterday, we both had 6 players on the pitch that we're at our clubs last season. They also have a brand new manager and coaching staff that have been at Wigan for less time than Mowbray has been here.

Wigan and Shrewsbury are doing a lot better than us, and in both cases with less resources (in Shrewsbury's case, far less resources).

His excuse doesn't wash, but it is instructive that he is trying to manipulate facts to suit his own agenda.

 

Venkys have spent the past 8yrs ripping the clubs heart out, that will in some way have a major impact of the pitch. Its an impact that most teams (Pompey aside) have never suffered in this league, and any new managers will struggle to get over that hurdle with less than 6 months into the job.

This club needs stability in my opinion, if we sat bottom 3 I'd be calling for his head, but we sit 1 point of the playoffs? so the anti manager sentiment is suspicious to me I'm afraid. 

As for his excuses, I don't spend all my time reading his comments, I dip in and out, so I can't say I've ever noticed blueboy.

[JacknOry]

Just now, Gav said:

Venkys have spent the past 8yrs ripping the clubs heart out, that will in some way have a major impact of the pitch. Its an impact that most teams (Pompey aside) have never suffered in this league, and any new managers will struggle to get over that hurdle with less than 6 months into the job.

This club needs stability in my opinion, if we sat bottom 3 I'd be calling for his head, but we sit 1 point of the playoffs? so the anti manager sentiment is suspicious to me I'm afraid. 

As for his excuses, I don't spend all my time reading his comments, I dip in and out, so I can't say I've ever noticed blueboy.

Fans unhappy about the performance of a manager performing well below his own targets is suspicious? wow

[Gav]

12 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

Did all the 21 other clubs managers set top 2 as their target? Did they spend 1.5 mil on players? Do they have the largest wage bills in the division? 

Does any of that guarantee success?

 

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Gav said:

Venkys have spent the past 8yrs ripping the clubs heart out, that will in some way have a major impact of the pitch. Its an impact that most teams (Pompey aside) have never suffered in this league, and any new managers will struggle to get over that hurdle with less than 6 months into the job.

This club needs stability in my opinion, if we sat bottom 3 I'd be calling for his head, but we sit 1 point of the playoffs? so the anti manager sentiment is suspicious to me I'm afraid. 

As for his excuses, I don't spend all my time reading his comments, I dip in and out, so I can't say I've ever noticed blueboy.

We need promotion, this will be a one-season free shot for Mowbray. He's had everything he needs as he himself has acknowledged. His remit is promotion, nothing else.

[Gav]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

You seem to be avoiding the subject now that people have provided you with a reasoned debate, which is ironic considering the above diatribe.

Can someone send blueboy3333 instructions on how to use the site please? 

[47er]

Where's the 80 goals that TM said we needed coming from? He said it, not me.

[JBiz]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Fans unhappy about the performance of a manager performing well below his own targets is suspicious? wow

Be honest Jack, he would've been slated for saying "I expect us to start poorly, then pick up some consistency as we gel!" Or "Don't get your hopes up lads.."

 

[JacknOry]

Just now, Gav said:

Does any of that guarantee success?

 

Nothing guarantees success. However, seeing as the manager has all this at his disposal, sets top two as a target and is currently 12 points behind a team we finished above last season that has spent far less and has a new manager - he is underpeforming massively.

[JBiz]

Just now, JacknOry said:

he is underpeforming massively.

Might be just semantics but this isn't true. If he is underperforming, it's marginally. 

[JacknOry]

Just now, Biz said:

Be honest Jack, he would've been slated for saying "I expect us to start poorly, then pick up some consistency as we gel!" Or "Don't get your hopes up lads.."

 

Yes he would considering the resources he has been given. Everyone had us down as favourites looking at our squad and signings - i expected our aim to be top 2 and he confirmed those as the target - the fact that we are well off target can only put on the managers door.

[Skiptonrover]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Nothing guarantees success. However, seeing as the manager has all this at his disposal, sets top two as a target and is currently 12 points behind a team we finished above last season that has spent far less and has a new manager - he is underpeforming massively.

Them 12 become 7 IF Games in hand are won wouldn't be massively then, can't be used as a argument an opportunity which hasn't presented itself through nobody's fault. Based on shrews league position.