[Archived] ROVERS VS WIGAN

[JacknOry]

Just now, Bluebarley said:

Them 12 become 7 IF Games in hand are won wouldn't be massively then, can't be used as a argument an opportunity which hasn't presented itself through nobody's fault.

Big IF - tired of hearing the games in hand. We cant do well in the games we dont have in hand but everyone is automatically assuming we will win all our games in hand.

[Skiptonrover]

You are using a worse casebook scenario without factoring in any positive scenarios.

[JBiz]

Just now, JacknOry said:

Yes he would considering the resources he has been given. Everyone had us down as favourites looking at our squad and signings - i expected our aim to be top 2 and he confirmed those as the target - the fact that we are well off target can only put on the managers door.

Certainly, but I'm sure if you asked Shrewsbury and the like, they'd love promotion to be decided in October. We could be 1st for 1 week out of 44 in a season and win the league.

The talk of changing manager without even looking to consider our structure or the recent issues the decision making has caused, is just absolutely short sighted "barmy-ness".

[Oldgregg86]

31 minutes ago, Gav said:

We always have this one, "Look at how well Shrewsbury are doing" "Well look at Scunthorpe, they're not struggling" "Look at Wigan, new manager" "Look at the next side that puts a run together" blah blah blah.

How about looking at the other 21 sides that aren't sitting in the top 2 promotion places for a change? Are they all to be sacked? do they have managers that are useless? or is it just us?

The only manager you've ever liked mercer was Coyle! and he was at Bolton at the time! and we all know how that ended up!

No however other teams haven't got our  wage bill, playing squad, training facilities etc and I haven't heard anyone but TM saying they should get promoted or they aren't a fit manager. Ive not heard other managers giving 80 goal targets and creating virtually  nothing week after week. I'm sure Plymouth, Wimbledon and managers of clubs alike would be happy with staying up and shouldn't be sacked but we aren't them and I would hope our expectations where a little higher. 

[McClarky]

It makes me laugh when every time we don’t win all you read about is the referee. Wake up, this is the 3rd division, the players, management and officials are all by definition 3rd rate. What does anyone expect?

They aren’t biased or corrupt, they just make mistakes. Same as the players do at this level.   If any of the people involved were better than they are they would be operating at a higher level .... but they aren’t.

[JacknOry]

Just now, Biz said:

Certainly, but I'm sure if you asked Shrewsbury and the like, they'd love promotion to be decided in October. We could be 1st for 1 week out of 44 in a season and win the league.

The talk of changing manager without even looking to consider our structure or the recent issues the decision making has caused, is just absolutely short sighted "barmy-ness".

We have to get out of this division this season - we HAVE to. They have funded a promotion push - do you think they will again next season? Do you think we will have a squad as good as this next season? It will be worse and promotion will be much further away. We will become a mid-table League 1 side and slowly slip down the league season after season before we ultimately get relegated to League 2. It is the Championship all over again.

[JacknOry]

6 minutes ago, Bluebarley said:

You are using a worse casebook scenario without factoring in any positive scenarios.

And you are doing the same thing but assuming we will win them. I am saying forget the 'games in hand' until we have played them - they cannot be used in this argument.

Besides your maths are wrong - how can it become 7 behind from 12 if we win both? Surely it would be 6?

[JacknOry]

Just now, Oldgregg86 said:

No however other teams haven't got our  wage bill, playing squad, training facilities etc and I haven't heard anyone but TM saying they should get promoted or they aren't a fit manager. Ive not heard other managers giving 80 goal targets and creating virtually  nothing week after week. I'm sure Plymouth, Wimbledon and managers of clubs alike would be happy with staying up and shouldn't be sacked but we aren't them and I would hope our expectations where a little higher. 

Careful, Gav will call you stupid and claim that you do not live in the real world where apparently 'real' fans do not feel the same way.

[JBiz]

Just now, JacknOry said:

We have to get out of this division this season - we HAVE to. They have funded a promotion push - do you think they will again next season? Do you think we will have a squad as good as this next season? It will be worse and promotion will be much further away. We will become a mid-table League 1 side and slowly slip down the league season after season before we ultimately get relegated to League 2. It is the Championship all over again.

I'm well aware of the worst case scenario pal. The part that's confusing me is how you can't see how the likely it is, that our decline will more likely be exacerbated by sacking TM in October because we are only around the playoffs.

[AggyBlue]

Gav doesn't go to enough games to understand the pessimism is down to the tactics employed and performances on the pitch

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Biz said:

I was impressed, surprised and genuinely enthused by the Lambert appointment, but the lack of support from above that he'd either asked for/been promised didn't materialise thus he scarpered.

According to Lambert himself he had never discussed budgets for the summer by the time he left. He just knew he had a 'better' job lined up at a club with a much bigger budget. Lambert was all mouth though as shown by his Wolves performance. But that's enough about him, I only brought it up to show that when they appointed him, Kelly, and Irvine they (Venky's) obviously had someone with half a brain advising them. It's not beyond the realms of possibility they could do it again.

 

6 minutes ago, Biz said:

To me, the only way we get promoted this season is through patience and gradual improvement. If we are dropping like a stone, it's a different matter - but thus far we've only performed well in patches and we're are still in a decent position.

I wouldn't disagree with that but top 2 is the only target. At what point do you say 'enough is enough'? I stand by the opinion we have the best squad in the league. Poor performances and results I put down to Mowbray's bizarre team selections and negative tactics at home. Because of this we aren't consistent enough. it's not just Shrewsbury and Wigan that we have to catch,  Charlton also seem to be pushing on.

I think the 'only playing well in patches' is as good as it gets under Mowbray. That's my worry.

It's certainly not time to sack him, but I'd certainly be testing the water for alternatives if we are not making any headway by Christmas. That said, I think he'd do well in the play-offs  simply because he generally does well away from home. That would set us up for a nice day out at Wembley in the final! 

It's certainly a quandary

 

[Oldgregg86]

28 minutes ago, Gav said:

Venkys have spent the past 8yrs ripping the clubs heart out, that will in some way have a major impact of the pitch. Its an impact that most teams (Pompey aside) have never suffered in this league, and any new managers will struggle to get over that hurdle with less than 6 months into the job.

This club needs stability in my opinion, if we sat bottom 3 I'd be calling for his head, but we sit 1 point of the playoffs? so the anti manager sentiment is suspicious to me I'm afraid. 

As for his excuses, I don't spend all my time reading his comments, I dip in and out, so I can't say I've ever noticed blueboy.

So if we give him time and patience and at the end of the season we finish say...8th. do we stick by him keeping this famous " stability" . I'm sick of this stability. We we're stabilising n the championship and look were we are . If we're stabilising we're standing still why teams around us capitalise. I've seen enough to know we don't need stability we need success and I've seen and heard enough of TM in 9 months to know he isn't taking us up. 

[blueboy3333]

10 minutes ago, Bluebarley said:

You are using a worse casebook scenario without factoring in any positive scenarios.

Going off results so far this season there are no guarantees we'll win our games in hand. That's not being 'positive' or 'negative', it's just looking at the facts. We've won half our games this season. We've drawn or lost the other half.

[Skiptonrover]

4 minutes ago, JacknOry said:

And you are doing the same thing but assuming we will win them. I am saying forget the 'games in hand' until we have played them - they cannot be used in this argument.

Besides your maths are wrong - how can it become 7 behind from 12 if we win both? Surely it would be 6?

I did edit my post it was shrews I was basing on its not even 7 it's 6 with Wigan, no nobody can use the argument either way with the games in hand but wouldn't it be sensible to wait & assess the outlook then?

[blueboy3333]

17 minutes ago, Bluebarley said:

Them 12 become 7 IF Games in hand are won wouldn't be massively then, can't be used as a argument an opportunity which hasn't presented itself through nobody's fault. Based on shrews league position.

Are you Venky's accountant?

[JacknOry]

Just now, Biz said:

I'm well aware of the worst case scenario pal. The part that's confusing me is how you can't see how the likely it is, that our decline will more likely be exacerbated by sacking TM in October because we are only around the playoffs.

So we just stick with what we have and then what? I know there is a good chance they will bring in someone worse but at the same time we might just stumble upon someone that can get more out of this squad. Its a roll of the dice for sure but id rather that than watching us slowly decline.

[JacknOry]

Just now, Bluebarley said:

I did edit my post it was shrews I was basing on its not even 7 it's 6 with Wigan, no nobody can use the argument either way with the games in hand but wouldn't it be sensible to wait & assess the outlook then?

You are the one that brought them up - I have never mentioned anything about the games in hand but you are using them to defend TM  by assuming we will win them.

[Skiptonrover]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Are you Venky's accountant?

You don't know a chap called Stuart do you.

[Gav]

3 minutes ago, AggyBlue said:

Gav doesn't go to enough games to understand the pessimism is down to the tactics employed and performances on the pitch

You should be over the moon this season then Aggy after whats been served up for the past 7yrs, we're actually winning games, 1 point of the playoffs 

[Gav]

Just now, Bluebarley said:

You don't know a chap called Stuart do you.

Do you know a chap called Mike?

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Bluebarley said:

You don't know a chap called Stuart do you.

Is he bad a maths too?

[AggyBlue]

Just now, Gav said:

You should be over the moon this season then Aggy after whats been served up for the past 7yrs, we're actually winning games, 1 point of the playoffs 

I'm not because I know with the squad we have we could be doing so much better

[AllRoverAsia]

1 hour ago, markread said:

l am pretty sure that recording an PL or EFL game is illegal and published as such in all Ground Regs.

For the reasons you allude to AAR. Copyright.

 

 

I suspect that you are correct.

I spend my Sunday mornings on Youtube watching 12 mins vids of all the previous days PL games with English commentary and not by hand held cameras.

Funny world, fortunately, and long may it last.

[Skiptonrover]

Just now, JacknOry said:

You are the one that brought them up - I have never mentioned anything about the games in hand but you are using them to defend TM  by assuming we will win them.

You said compared to Wigan Shrewsburys management TM was underperforming massively, I was just pointing out IF the games in hand were won (which there may not be won) things aren't as bleak as you was making out. This is a wait & see scenario then time to assess I think not until imo.

[Oldgregg86]

Never mind the preview I will do the post match for the Fleetwood game. 

It's been difficult with so many local Derby's in such a short space of time and that is bound to take it's toil on the players both physically and mentally

Elliot's work rate and endevour was badly missed on the right hand side today exposing young nyambe against one of the best left wingers in the league (could be anyone).

We got some bad decisions given against us and when the rub of the green isn't going for you it isn't going for you but hopefully we can bounce back and get on a good run before the busy Xmas period where I'm sure we will pick up points.

I asked DG did he want to start but he is said he had promised take his kid trick or treating so I let him sit this one out