[Archived] ROVERS VS WIGAN

[blueboy3333]

Just now, USABlue said:

Or Lee or Furphy or Souness or Hughes but all of them took some time to get their succesful group of players to actually start acheiving good results

Are you saying this will happen, because a few posts up you seem to be doubting his ability?

[Mercer]

Just now, Biz said:

If you can compare this form/tactics to Coyle, you mustn’t have watched any of his tenure, and I’d hazard a guess that you’ve seen zip of TM’s either. We all know it’s a shit or bust season, but ignore the “Rao ball and chain” at your own peril.

I also “like” how you tried to top JALs inexplicable problem with David Lowe also, just what has he publicly done wrong? (Besides being called Lowe..)

Sadly, I've seen too many matches under both Coyle and Mowbray - seen two of the last three under Mowbray.

As for Lowe, I think it's more exciting watching paint dry.  Watched him on match day and don't see any fire, passion or enthusiasm. 

Same applies to Mowbray and Venus.  You look at the three of them and their body language and realise why there's no buzz about the club and why at times the players appear half arsed.

My opinions and we all have them but IMV don't see players wanting to run through the proverbial brick wall for them.

[blueboy3333]

Just now, Mercer said:

My opinions and we all have them but IMV don't see players wanting to run through the proverbial brick wall for them.

Disagree there Merce, in the games I've seen they've always tried (I didn't go to Oldham), I just think there are a few tarts in there who occasionally disappear. Team spirit always seems really good too, they all look like they enjoy playing for the club and are appreciative of the support they get. I think a lot of the credit there goes to Mowbray.

[JAL]

4 hours ago, arbitro said:

I wrongly had yesterday as his fifth yellow.

What was Bennett's first yellow for Tony as the second one was definitely spot on.

How many advantages did the referee play that you can recall judging by your hesitancy comment.

[USABlue]

1 minute ago, blueboy3333 said:

Are you saying this will happen, because a few posts up you seem to be doubting his ability?

No I am not, just pointing out that some our heroes had dodgy beginnings.  I want Mowbary to succeed, but unless he changes his mindset I don't think he will.  I feel he is his own worst enemy when it comes to player motivation.  Maybe this makes no sense I think he is a good manager he need a few little tweaks in his man management skills.

Take Nuttall as an example, Grahams doin poorly, Nuttall on fire and he publicly states.that Nuttall ain't getting a look in.  What does that.do?  Well it makes Joe think why bother and tells Graham don't worry just keep playing half hearted.  If ut was menI would, for at.least one game put Nuttall on the bench and left Graham out if the squad.

  This Mowbary approach appears to run right through the squad.

Throw the young uns a carrot once in a while and keep the 1st teamers looking over their shoulders.

[Cherry Blue]

12 minutes ago, USABlue said:

....  Well it makes Joe think why bother and tells Graham don't worry just keep playing half hearted.  If ut was menI would, for at.least one game put Nuttall on the bench and left Graham out if the squad.

 

I'm sure its not quite like that USA. Graham played well yesterday, hung onto the ball in desperate circumstances. But if Nuttall isn't on the bench for Fleetwood game more questions will be asked.

The ref showed a red card first then held up a second yellow, does this make the second yellow null and void? 

[JHRover]

18 hours ago, Gav said:

 

He talked about Danny Graham being the only member of the side to start against Wigan the last time we played them, really insightful stuff about transient players and turnover off staff, trying to create a team from a bunch of strangers.

Did he really say that in his interview? Because if he did it isn't true. 

The last time we played Wigan was in March. Graham, Nyambe, Williams, Mulgrew and Conway all started that game. 

I do think there is far too much weight being put on this 'gelling' period that is supposedly taking place. Whatever 'gelling' needed doing should have been done by now. If they are still gelling going into November more than 1/3 into the season then something is wrong either with what they do on the training ground all week or with the signings themselves. 

There seems to be an attitude that because Mowbray has had his first summer window, we're in a new league and we've made a few signings that this is a transitional period and results below standards expected are acceptable because things are still settling down after the summer. In actual fact most games this season we have started with 6,7.8 players who were playing regularly in the Championship together last season and the numbers we have brought into the club aren't that high, and even if they were most were hailing that because we've got rid of rubbish before doing so.

People can't celebrate getting rid of the likes of Lowe and Guthrie, celebrate bringing in 10+ new players and then carry on all season saying we can't get near the top 2 because those players are still 'settling in'. 

[Mercer]

Just now, blueboy3333 said:

Disagree there Merce, in the games I've seen they've always tried (I didn't go to Oldham), I just think there are a few tarts in there who occasionally disappear. Team spirit always seems really good too, they all look like they enjoy playing for the club and are appreciative of the support they get. I think a lot of the credit there goes to Mowbray.

Enough has been said about Oldham!

We all know the margins in football can be fine and at times it boils down to squeezing that extra few percent out of the players.

I watch our lot pre match and I don't see the zip or bounce that makes me think wow, we are going to be at it today.  It's the manager and coaches who create this buzz.

I always remember watching a young Steve McLaren at Ewood, when he was number 2 at United, putting their players through their pre match routine.  He was unrecognizable from the dour and sad chap of recent years.  There was a zip and verve about the session and they looked like they were on fire.  That has stuck with me as a benchmark and we are light years from that.

[arbitro]

1 hour ago, JAL said:

What was Bennett's first yellow for Tony as the second one was definitely spot on.

How many advantages did the referee play that you can recall judging by your hesitancy comment.

I disagree that his second yellow was spot on. It wasn't an attempt to deceive the referee as Bennett actually jumped away from the challenge by Burn. The referee didn't play too many advantages at all. He was definitely hesitant which looked like nerves to me. If I was him though what would concern me would be the comment by Mowbray that he lacked humility when dealing with players and managers. At times he seemed aloof which is trait I detest in anybody.

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, Biz said:

 

Your bathroom mirror speaks ?

[Parsonblue]

51 minutes ago, arbitro said:

I disagree that his second yellow was spot on. It wasn't an attempt to deceive the referee as Bennett actually jumped away from the challenge by Burn. The referee didn't play too many advantages at all. He was definitely hesitant which looked like nerves to me. If I was him though what would concern me would be the comment by Mowbray that he lacked humility when dealing with players and managers. At times he seemed aloof which is trait I detest in anybody.

At what point are referees pulled from the firing line and made to undertake some form of retraining arbitro?  The guy yesterday looked completely out of his depth at this level and goodness knows there have been some shockers this season.  It's very noticeable watching Premier League games on Sky that the interpretation of the laws seem totally different at times.

[47er]

10 hours ago, Gav said:

47er, did you think the same under Saxton? Lee? Kendall when he first arrived? Mackay? Hartford?

Or did you think they need more time to settle into the role, longer than the few months that TM has had so far had?

Whats different now to then? other than the club now has been robbed, pillaged and raped by crooks and stooges?

 

That recent run of 4 games shows that we are way off where we should be. We will not make top 2 on the evidence of the season's performances so far.The best we can hope for is the lottery of the play-offs. Kettle anyone?

My concern has always been what next? Was a more encouraging transfer window than most the last throw of the dice from Venkys? On the basis that TM promised them promotion?

If so what's next if we fail? Can we afford to fail?

[martonrover]

3 hours ago, Doug said:

Rinse and repeat time again on here.

If we learned anything from our dark period under this ownership, we should know that we have had too many managers to even stabilise the club (Bowyer being the exception}.

Mowbray must be given time, his results against all the teams above us have been good, we just need to put the lesser teams to the sword.

We aren't in such a bad position in this league at the moment, and a decent couple of results should see us into the top 6.

Changing now gives the next manager (and those calling for change) the option to say 'well it's not my/his team', give him more time, not his players'!!

Another wasted season, then sack Mowbray's replacement next October. rinse and repeat!!

Please look at the big picture!!

 

I don't think Mowbray should be sacked, but I still don't believe he has another promotion in him.

I think most of us can see the bigger picture, i.e. We're b*ggered either way.

Mowbray should not have got the job, but that does not justify sacking him at this time.

We all know that if / when he is sacked, another appointment from Pasha's Rothmans Football Annual 2010 is likely.

Re our current position, as I stated in my previous post, it's like Bowyer all over again, "We're only x number of points from the play offs".

I must stress , I desperately hope Mowbray proves me wrong.

[arbitro]

8 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

At what point are referees pulled from the firing line and made to undertake some form of retraining arbitro?  The guy yesterday looked completely out of his depth at this level and goodness knows there have been some shockers this season.  It's very noticeable watching Premier League games on Sky that the interpretation of the laws seem totally different at times.

At League One level their clear errors pretty much pass under the radar and as such poor performances aren't really punished. Hopefully the observer at yesterdays match will include the issues that were evident to the majority but there is an old boys network and this particular referee is being pushed so I don't expect him to suffer much in terms of his mark and future appointments. Yesterdays referee is actually full time. He should be mortified by Mowbays humility comment about him but towards the end of my career I noticed a real arrogance in some of the younger up and coming officials which made me glad I was coming to the end. The old adage of not noticing a referee if he was having a good game doesn't really apply now. Some of them love the limelight and think of themselves as something akin to the players. 

 

[chaddyrovers]

9 hours ago, Dunnfc said:

Who's been in the shadows since day one? Suhail

Why do managers Coyle (Sheron), Lambert and Mowbray all get represented by HSH Sports?

HSH being all the old SEM crowd. Now it looks to me as if all Suhail does is call up and take advice from this crowd or meeting them on motorways.

Progressive clubs or just people in life don't make the same mistakes and don't hire ex glucose biscuit sales men to run a club.

How sure are you that HSH Sports represent Mowbray? 

Which agents are belong to HSH sports?

8 hours ago, Mercer said:

Coyley is not my mate - seems like you are another who succumbed to the tongue in cheek stuff!

 

Hows your other mate doing Wee Dougie? Oh failed as manager. Now sporting director at Palace. 

[TBTF]

4 hours ago, USABlue said:

Or Lee or Furphy or Souness or Hughes but all of them took some time to get their succesful group of players to actually start acheiving good results

He’s had 30 games here now- how long do you want to give him to work it out??

publicly and constantly babbling to the press about “ still adjusting to this league” doesn’t help. It becomes a self fulfilling prophecy .

if he doesn’t start adjusting to this league sharpish the season is going to be gone.

[Mercer]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

How sure are you that HSH Sports represent Mowbray? 

Which agents are belong to HSH sports?

Hows your other mate doing Wee Dougie? Oh failed as manager. Now sporting director at Palace. 

Nice work if you can get it Chaddy.  We Duggie is one smart cookie - make no mistake!

[tomphil]

2 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Nice work if you can get it Chaddy.  We Duggie is one smart cookie - make no mistake!

He might be but I doubt it stretches to first team management

[RevidgeBlue]

11 hours ago, renrag said:

In 1979 after 14 games under Howard Kendall, Rovers were in the bottom three with11 points (14 today with 3 points for a win). They finished second and that's the only table that matters

I highlighted this a couple of weeks ago. However in the early part of 1980, the team embarked on a Club record 8 successive League wins; lost one then followed  that with another six successive League wins.

There's no sign that the current squad under Mowbray have enough desire to deliver anything approaching that. Nor that the manager is expansive or positive enough to deliver enough victories to challenge for automatic promotion.

If you wanted a safe pair of hands in to deliver a secure mid table position over a full season, TM would probably be a decent choice. We are clearly going nowhere though aiming to stay in games first half and nick them later on or going to certain places looking for a point when we're already some way off the pace.

[RevidgeBlue]

4 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

At what point are referees pulled from the firing line and made to undertake some form of retraining arbitro?  The guy yesterday looked completely out of his depth at this level and goodness knows there have been some shockers this season.  It's very noticeable watching Premier League games on Sky that the interpretation of the laws seem totally different at times.

Rather than worrying about a one off refereeing performance PB, you'd probably be better served worrying why the manager, having finally stumbled across a line up that works, needlessly changed it!

[Parsonblue]

10 hours ago, arbitro said:

At League One level their clear errors pretty much pass under the radar and as such poor performances aren't really punished. Hopefully the observer at yesterdays match will include the issues that were evident to the majority but there is an old boys network and this particular referee is being pushed so I don't expect him to suffer much in terms of his mark and future appointments. Yesterdays referee is actually full time. He should be mortified by Mowbays humility comment about him but towards the end of my career I noticed a real arrogance in some of the younger up and coming officials which made me glad I was coming to the end. The old adage of not noticing a referee if he was having a good game doesn't really apply now. Some of them love the limelight and think of themselves as something akin to the players. 

 

Many thanks arbitro.  You've confirmed what I've long suspected about the decline in standards.  As you say, the best refs are the ones who you don't really notice and today there seems to be fewer and fewer of them.  Many seem to have been caught up in the cult of celebrity and think that they are part of the 'show'.

[Parsonblue]

6 hours ago, RevidgeBlue said:

Rather than worrying about a one off refereeing performance PB, you'd probably be better served worrying why the manager, having finally stumbled across a line up that works, needlessly changed it!

In the main I'm fairly relaxed about the manager Rev.  Yes, he tends to overthink it on occasions but, given time, I think he will do a decent job.  I've more confidence in him than in Coyle and Lambert combined!

[RV Blue]

3 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

In the main I'm fairly relaxed about the manager Rev.  Yes, he tends to overthink it on occasions but, given time, I think he will do a decent job.  I've more confidence in him than in Coyle and Lambert combined!

He's been given time, and he still doesn't have a clue what his best team is. We've massively underperformed under Mowbray, that is simply a fact.

[Parsonblue]

Just now, RV Blue said:

He's been given time, and he still doesn't have a clue what his best team is. We've massively underperformed under Mowbray, that is simply a fact.

He's been here nine months or so.  Hardly what I would describe as being given time.  I believe that turning this club around will take years not months no matter who is manager.

[RV Blue]

2 minutes ago, Parsonblue said:

He's been here nine months or so.  Hardly what I would describe as being given time.  I believe that turning this club around will take years not months no matter who is manager.

9 months should be enough for a decent manager. He's had all the backing he could ask for. Cook has had to work under more difficult circumstances at Wigan than Mowbray had to work under here and look at Wigan now. Bolton were certainly a bigger basket case than us when Parkinson arrived, and they went up at the first opportunity. Why should we settle for mediocrity?