[Archived] ROVERS VS WIGAN

[Parsonblue]

3 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

9 months should be enough for a decent manager. He's had all the backing he could ask for. Cook has had to work under more difficult circumstances at Wigan than Mowbray had to work under here and look at Wigan now. Bolton were certainly a bigger basket case than us when Parkinson arrived, and they went up at the first opportunity. Why should we settle for mediocrity?

And Bolton are coming straight back down because, like ourselves, the foundations need to be rebuilt before long term success can be achieved.

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

He's been here nine months or so.  Hardly what I would describe as being given time.  I believe that turning this club around will take years not months no matter who is manager.

I don't think we've got years - that's the problem Parson.

[RV Blue]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

And Bolton are coming straight back down because, like ourselves, the foundations need to be rebuilt before long term success can be achieved.

And that shows that we should be going up with ease. We were extremely close to staying up last season and have a better squad this season (in my opinion), and Bolton don't even look like they can compete in the Championship this season. We have a better squad this season than Bolton had last season, we should be going up.

By the way, are you saying that you'd rather we stay down this season so we can 'rebuild the foundations'? Nonsense.

[BlueMonday59]

I realise there is a sense of desperation to get back to the championship at the first attempt but I do believe it will take us more time than that. The team still needs to evolve further and whilst there are some signs of progress we still do not look able to dominate teams at this level.

Nyambe is better than Hanley,  Downing is better than Greer/Ward , Smallwood better than Lowe and Chapman the best talent in years yet we still look like we are short competing at the physical level for 90 mins in League 1.

Antonsson looks flimsy at times and cannot hold the ball up and 80 goals this season is not going to get much of a contribution from this guy from what I have seen. Conway, Graham,  and Evans look slow these days with our build up play far too ponderous at times.

Outside chance of the play offs would be my verdict at the moment. I just hope Mowbray is allowed to develop the squad further in January by the owners.

 

[JHRover]

10 minutes ago, BlueMonday59 said:

I realise there is a sense of desperation to get back to the championship at the first attempt but I do believe it will take us more time than that. The team still needs to evolve further and whilst there are some signs of progress we still do not look able to dominate teams at this level.

 

 

Unfortunately next summer is likely to be another revolution rather than evolution.

A quick scan through our squad. If we don't go up I think we can safely say that the likes of Lenihan, Mulgrew, Evans, Graham, Bennett will all likely depart the club. They could all play in the Championship and won't be putting their careers on hold for us to have another stab at it next year. We did well to keep them this summer presumably because of the cash we are shelling out and the prospect of an immediate promotion back to the Championship.

Then we've got the old loan problem - I've said it for years but you can't build a squad around loans - yet here we are with Antonsson, Chapman, Harper all in and around the first team none of whom will be here next season.

So that's the best part of 10 players who will leave in the event promotion isn't achieved.

We can safely say that those players will be replaced by cheaper and therefore almost certainly inferior players. As has happened pretty much every year since these people took over.

In terms of the manager, if we miss promotion he has made a rod for his own back by admitting he would expect to be fired if we don't go up. He's had the biggest budget and by most opinions the strongest squad to work with, so if he misses promotion this season why does anyone think he is capable of doing it in future seasons?

So as good as it sounds to take a few years to sort the club out and come back stronger, I'm almost certain that won't happen for a multitude of reasons. It really is promotion or bust this season. 2-3 years or more at this level is unsustainable.

[chaddyrovers]

51 minutes ago, RV Blue said:

9 months should be enough for a decent manager. He's had all the backing he could ask for. Cook has had to work under more difficult circumstances at Wigan than Mowbray had to work under here and look at Wigan now. Bolton were certainly a bigger basket case than us when Parkinson arrived, and they went up at the first opportunity. Why should we settle for mediocrity?

Cook has had to work under more difficult at Wigan? Why?

 

[RV Blue]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Cook has had to work under more difficult at Wigan? Why?

 

Less time to assess his squad, less money to spend, had to sell some of his best players, and initially had a worse squad to work with than Mowbray (as evidenced by our league positions last season).

[JHRover]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Cook has had to work under more difficult at Wigan? Why?

 

Took over during the summer rather than in February, less time to settle in/get to grips with the issues, inherited a side that finished below us last season, has spent less money, also worth bearing in mind that Wigan have had a similar turnover in managers to ourselves recently with Rosler, Mackay, Caldwell, Joyce and Cook.

[lraC]

I guess this link say an awful lot, about were we currently are and no doubt is the best reason for us still struggling. I am afraid we are still badly infected.

http://www.directorstats.co.uk/director/craig-honeyman/

[Skiptonrover]

11 hours ago, Mercer said:

Nice work if you can get it Chaddy.  We Duggie is one smart cookie - make no mistake!

Dougie features in this 1, quite a funny video.

[Parsonblue]

1 hour ago, RV Blue said:

And that shows that we should be going up with ease. We were extremely close to staying up last season and have a better squad this season (in my opinion), and Bolton don't even look like they can compete in the Championship this season. We have a better squad this season than Bolton had last season, we should be going up.

By the way, are you saying that you'd rather we stay down this season so we can 'rebuild the foundations'? Nonsense.

You talk as if we have a right to promotion.  We don't - if that was the case Sheffield United wouldn't have spent six years at this level or Leeds United three.  Of course I want to go up this season but I'm realistic enough to know that, as in life, you don't always get what you want in football.  Even if Mowbray was potted there is no guarantee that whoever replaced him would do any better - particularly as Suhail and Balaji would be handling the appointment.

[lraC]

Just now, Parsonblue said:

You talk as if we have a right to promotion.  We don't - if that was the case Sheffield United wouldn't have spent six years at this level or Leeds United three.  Of course I want to go up this season but I'm realistic enough to know that, as in life, you don't always get what you want in football.  Even if Mowbray was potted there is no guarantee that whoever replaced him would do any better - particularly as Suhail and Balaji would be handling the appointment.

Suhail and Balaji, they get by with a little help from their friends!

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/article-2713691/CHARLES-SALE-Angry-Leeds-consultant-Graham-Bean-cuts-ties-agents-money-owed-Stephen-Warnock-deal.html

[darrenrover]

13 minutes ago, lraC said:

I guess this link say an awful lot, about were we currently are and no doubt is the best reason for us still struggling. I am afraid we are still badly infected.

http://www.directorstats.co.uk/director/craig-honeyman/

Which begs the question what's it all about?

With the hundreds of millions swilling about in the Premier League, why are the like of these still attaching themselves to the relative meagre pickings at Blackburn Rovers?

 

[lraC]

Just now, darrenrover said:

Which begs the question what's it all about?

With the hundreds of millions swilling about in the Premier League, why are the like of these still attaching themselves to the relative meagre pickings at Blackburn Rovers?

 

Who knows, but it is clear for all to see that despite people thinking the original agents and their hangers on, had all but gone, they actually haven't. At the risk of being accused of me stirring up more conspiracy, are we back to the age old question of who really owns Blackburn Rovers?

[darrenrover]

Just now, lraC said:

Who knows, but it is clear for all to see that despite people thinking the original agents and their hangers on, had all but gone, they actually haven't. At the risk of being accused of me stirring up more conspiracy, are we back to the age old question of who really owns Blackburn Rovers?

You may be right.

Probably originates from an original 'consultancy' arrangement through the Raos lack of football knowledge to the situation now where they're bored, still lack any knowledge and are quite happy for external parties to manage matters on their behalf.

Then you go back to Seneca's offer, which would have been a win win for both owners and club. Why turn that down in favour of the current status quo? It makes absolutely no sense but nothing ever did.

[lraC]

Just now, darrenrover said:

You may be right.

Probably originates from an original 'consultancy' arrangement through the Raos lack of football knowledge to the situation now where they're bored, still lack any knowledge and are quite happy for external parties to manage matters on their behalf.

Then you go back to Seneca's offer, which would have been a win win for both owners and club. Why turn that down in favour of the current status quo? It makes absolutely no sense but nothing ever did.

Absolutely and always brings me back to the same feeling, that we will never see any success, under the current ownership. We hear that Venkys have learned their lessons and had their fingers burnt by agents, yet they keep on appearing in one guise or another. I honestly do not believe that Venkys are the sole owners, or have ever been so.  That's the only way some things, like the Seneca offer being rejected, can make any sense.

[lraC]

https://www.lexisnexis.de/whitepaper/beneficial-ownership.pdf

[JHRover]

51 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

Which begs the question what's it all about?

With the hundreds of millions swilling about in the Premier League, why are the like of these still attaching themselves to the relative meagre pickings at Blackburn Rovers?

 

Annual losses of £10-20 million a year aren't meagre pickings. Lots of money to be made there. Especially if you've got that unusual sort of owner who seems quite content to heap that onto the debt every 12 months with no questions asked and no interest in what is happening.

[darrenrover]

Apologies for previously digressing from the match thread.

I was at Wigan on Saturday, frustrated by the team selection and thought here we go again, another Oldham, Southend, Shrewsbury etc. starting line up.In fairness, on this occasion, I thought the team acquitted themselves well away against the top of the league and really should have won: Dack, get your knee over the ball and keep it down, Graham and Chapman should have also done better threading a ball through for tap ins.

The referee was appalling and ruined the game. All in all it was a good point but we could and should have had 3 if TM had been bolder from the off.

A good manager would look at the points gap, learn from the glaring mistakes in team selection thus far and learn to attack.

Everyone is scratching their head about why are Shrewsbury doing so well? They have forward players with both power and pace where we have neither. Not rocket science really but perhaps they don't have anybody pulling the strings with ulterior motives either.

 

[darrenrover]

Just now, JHRover said:

Annual losses of £10-20 million a year aren't meagre pickings. Lots of money to be made there. Especially if you've got that unusual sort of owner who seems quite content to heap that onto the debt every 12 months with no questions asked and no interest in what is happening.

I guess so, as Yozzer Hughes once said "gizz a job, go on gizz a job!"

[JAL]

7 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

In the main I'm fairly relaxed about the manager Rev.  Yes, he tends to overthink it on occasions but, given time, I think he will do a decent job.  I've more confidence in him than in Coyle and Lambert combined!

Have the owners not stitched the club up so that no one will ever be capable of turning this club around ?

[lraC]

Just now, JAL said:

Have the owners not stitched the club so that no one will ever be capable of turning this club around ?

I would imagine that the current owners, would need to waive all of the debt. The writing was on the wall, before the takeover, but I guess that's now water under the bridge.

https://t.co/QsTe229cfi?ssr=true

[tomphil]

Just now, JAL said:

Have the owners not stitched the club so that no one will ever be capable of turning this club around ?

Owners and their 'advisors' who would be distraught to see their little cashcow float away so will always strongly advise hanging on for a bit longer.

[JAL]

19 hours ago, arbitro said:

I disagree that his second yellow was spot on. It wasn't an attempt to deceive the referee as Bennett actually jumped away from the challenge by Burn. The referee didn't play too many advantages at all. He was definitely hesitant which looked like nerves to me. If I was him though what would concern me would be the comment by Mowbray that he lacked humility when dealing with players and managers. At times he seemed aloof which is trait I detest in anybody.

On the beeb they state that Bennett's first yellow was a bad foul how close was this to a red card Tony. The referee looks to be in a great position for Bennett's dive so how can we say he's not deceiving him, plus if he isn't what about the players actions losing possession by jumping out of the way of an oncoming challenge on the back of last amateurish kick out.

Then the manager goes on to talk about humility the hole just gets bigger. 

[oldjamfan1]

3 minutes ago, JAL said:

 

Then the manager goes on to talk about humility the hole just gets bigger. 

Not sure we supporters are really in a position to comment on this John. The ref obviously spoke to TM in a way that he disapproved of,  and he has every right to speak out about it as it is important feedback for the development of the official in question.