[Archived] ROVERS VS WIGAN

[Leonard Venkhater]

3 hours ago, lraC said:

Absolutely and always brings me back to the same feeling, that we will never see any success, under the current ownership. We hear that Venkys have learned their lessons and had their fingers burnt by agents, yet they keep on appearing in one guise or another. I honestly do not believe that Venkys are the sole owners, or have ever been so.  That's the only way some things, like the Seneca offer being rejected, can make any sense.

100%

The circumstances around the Coyle appointment ought to have put paid to any sense that the parasites had gone!

Why did Jim White seem so desperate that day to ram home the notion that Venky's were the sole  owners." Venky's, we're coming for you etc."

I seem to recall that this programme was aired, just as rumours began to gather pace about Coyle''s job being under threat. 

In the same programme he pontificated "Owen's a great guy.!"

What a load of deceitful nonsense!

Why does Suhail keep hiding like a snake in the grassssss

Venky's and not so hidden partners out!

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, lraC said:

I would imagine that the current owners, would need to waive all of the debt. The writing was on the wall, before the takeover, but I guess that's now water under the bridge.

https://t.co/QsTe229cfi?ssr=true

The Walker Non Trust were warned, yet they still sold the club down the river.

Hang your greedy heads in shame....(unless there is truth in whispers about duress..)

[lraC]

2 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

100%

The circumstances around the Coyle appointment ought to have put paid to any sense that the parasites had gone!

Why did Jim White seem so desperate that day to ram home the notion that Venky's were the sole  owners." Venky's, we're coming for you etc."

I seem to recall that this programme was aired, just as rumours began to gather pace about Coyle''s job being under threat. 

In the same programme he pontificated "Owen's a great guy.!"

What a load of deceitful nonsense!

Why does Suhail keep hiding like a snake in the grassssss

Venky's and not so hidden partners out!

That nonsense spouted by Jim White, was definitely a smoke screen. Anderson had used TS and their "friends" at Sky often enough, to spout his nonsense and that was simply another episode. Did Jim get Venkys to talk as he promised? Not s chance and this was just yet another load of propaganda.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, lraC said:

That nonsense spouted by Jim White, was definitely a smoke screen. Anderson had used TS and their "friends" at Sky often enough, to spout his nonsense and that was simply another episode. Did Jim get Venkys to talk as he promised? Not s chance and this was just yet another load of propaganda.

What is significant is how hard White worked to try and close down all mention of Anderson and agents!

[lraC]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

What is significant is how hard White worked to try and close down all mention of Anderson and agents!

I called the station that day, told the research team, what I wanted to say and was promised a call back. Of course the call back never came, I wonder why?

[Leonard Venkhater]

Yeah, you really have to disguise it in order to get anything like that onto Talkspite..

[Dreams of 1995]

Everything about the Coyle situation stinks. To know that Rovers had a manager with, at a guess, the most promotions to the Premier League out of any present manager lined up to take the job makes everything about last year suspect. I challenge someone to try and explain that decision without alluding to 'dodgy' goings on. It has absolutely no logical reasoning to it.

They claim their "ultimate goal" is to get back to the PL but opt for a bottom of the table manager in Coyle to promotion expert Warnock. That, to me, tells me that their 'goal' isn't promotion at all.

You can go on about being badly advised or how they don't know much about football but I'm sure even the most inexperienced person in matters surrounding football would be able to compare Coyle's CV to Warnock's and be able to tell you which is the "outstanding candidate".

Something is amiss with it all. There's definitely questions that will never be answered.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

Everything about the Coyle situation stinks. To know that Rovers had a manager with, at a guess, the most promotions to the Premier League out of any present manager lined up to take the job makes everything about last year suspect. I challenge someone to try and explain that decision without alluding to 'dodgy' goings on. It has absolutely no logical reasoning to it.

They claim their "ultimate goal" is to get back to the PL but opt for a bottom of the table manager in Coyle to promotion expert Warnock. That, to me, tells me that their 'goal' isn't promotion at all.

You can go on about being badly advised or how they don't know much about football but I'm sure even the most inexperienced person in matters surrounding football would be able to compare Coyle's CV to Warnock's and be able to tell you which is the "outstanding candidate".

Something is amiss with it all. There's definitely questions that will never be answered.

Hong Kong Blues?

[lraC]

4 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Hong Kong Blues?

It either has to be a betting scam, or one where it was the turn of the unofficial  owners to appoint that time. 

[Dreams of 1995]

3 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

Hong Kong Blues?

I'm not sure I subscribe to the illegal betting rumours. I can't remember the poster but someone on here said "betting syndicates are illegal, not stupid". Now unless there's some really naive Asian betting syndicates out there then I don't for the life of me believe people made money out of us appointing Coyle. Unless, of course, a few heads around the world whacked a few hundred quid on it at 33/1 to make a bit of extra pocket money after the information got leaked. It (almost) certainly wasn't the sole reason for his appointment. Surely they'd have made more money on lumping on a Rovers promotion than us being relegated that year?

I do believe it was relegation by design though. Why the owners/people who make the decisions wanted us in League 1 I don't know but someone, somewhere, wanted us down last season. That is the only things that can explain the decisions.

Coyle's hiring, his recruitment, the amount of time given, the hiring of Paul Snr and the subsequent sacking of Paul Snr (someone to take the fall) and then, ultimately, the way they provided funding this year that they couldn't find the year before, where the prize money was considerably higher.

Nothing makes sense.

[Leonard Venkhater]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

I'm not sure I subscribe to the illegal betting rumours. I can't remember the poster but someone on here said "betting syndicates are illegal, not stupid". Now unless there's some really naive Asian betting syndicates out there then I don't for the life of me believe people made money out of us appointing Coyle. Unless, of course, a few heads around the world whacked a few hundred quid on it at 33/1 to make a bit of extra pocket money after the information got leaked. It (almost) certainly wasn't the sole reason for his appointment. Surely they'd have made more money on lumping on a Rovers promotion than us being relegated that year?

I do believe it was relegation by design though. Why the owners/people who make the decisions wanted us in League 1 I don't know but someone, somewhere, wanted us down last season. That is the only things that can explain the decisions.

Coyle's hiring, his recruitment, the amount of time given, the hiring of Paul Snr and the subsequent sacking of Paul Snr (someone to take the fall) and then, ultimately, the way they provided funding this year that they couldn't find the year before, where the prize money was considerably higher.

Nothing makes sense.

So do I...the same in 2012 imo.

I do sense that something changed/somebody else intervened late in 2017 though.....but too late in the end, as we know!

[lraC]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

So do I...the same in 2012 imo.

I do sense that something changed/somebody else intervened late in 2017 though.....but too late in the end, as we know!

The Fact that Coyle was potted before relegation, unlike his stablemate back in the PL days, does point to an about turn. This adds more fuel to the fire, that Venkys are not sole owners, which I am pretty convinced about.

[darrenrover]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

So do I...the same in 2012 imo.

I do sense that something changed/somebody else intervened late in 2017 though.....but too late in the end, as we know!

'They' have certainly never wanted anybody with the best interests of Blackburn Rovers involved, that is a fact.

[JHRover]

22 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Everything about the Coyle situation stinks. To know that Rovers had a manager with, at a guess, the most promotions to the Premier League out of any present manager lined up to take the job makes everything about last year suspect. I challenge someone to try and explain that decision without alluding to 'dodgy' goings on. It has absolutely no logical reasoning to it.

They claim their "ultimate goal" is to get back to the PL but opt for a bottom of the table manager in Coyle to promotion expert Warnock. That, to me, tells me that their 'goal' isn't promotion at all.

You can go on about being badly advised or how they don't know much about football but I'm sure even the most inexperienced person in matters surrounding football would be able to compare Coyle's CV to Warnock's and be able to tell you which is the "outstanding candidate".

Something is amiss with it all. There's definitely questions that will never be answered.

But its in the past. Nothing we can do about that now. Water under the bridge. Forget it ever happened. Its about what we do in the present and future. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I could accept all that if the culprits had been identified and removed from the club, yet there's no evidence of that. We don't know who appointed Coyle, we don't know who sacked Coyle, we don't know who hired/fired Paul Senior, who then decided Tony Mowbray was God's gift and entitled to run the club on his own terms.

I'd quite like to know who is running my football club that I spend relative fortunes every year supporting. I'd also like to see heads roll when catastrophic decisions are made that get the club relegated when Joe Bloggs off Blackburn market could have made a better decision without taking fortunes out of the club for doing so.

But hey, its in the past and this is how Venkys want to do business so lets just move on and ignore it all. Meanwhile the puppet master(s) continue to lurk in the shadows throwing the sacrificial lamb Cheston to the lions when the pressure cranks up.

[Dreams of 1995]

10 minutes ago, Leonard Venkhater said:

So do I...the same in 2012 imo.

I do sense that something changed/somebody else intervened late in 2017 though.....but too late in the end, as we know!

It's alarming that it took the introduction of Paul Senior to get rid of Coyle. It had some striking resemblances to the Singh vs Kean scenario - whereby another employee of the club had to ruffle feathers a bit to get rid. I firmly believe that Coyle would have finished the season as manager if not for Paul Senior. I think it was him that intervened late in the season, no one else.

Which then strikes the question: Who decided to hire Paul Senior? He didn't actually do much and certainly couldn't be solely blamed for the relegation. If it was indeed true he masterminded the sacking of Coyle and the hiring of Tony then, as it stands even to this day, he made the most popular decision made at Rovers in almost a decade! So why did he fall on the sword? Cheston hailed the manager who took us down as the "outstanding candidate" - he should go. The person who said to choose Coyle over Warnock - he should go. Paul Senior certainly didn't deserve to lose his job because we got relegated.

These kind of questions and decisions only point to some sort of "conspiracy". Bad decisions cannot continue to be made on this scale without their being an alternative reason for them. It isn't me being a fantasist it's just taking a look at the decisions made in the last 7 years and struggling to justify 98% of them.

Even the little things like the promise to keep Kelly/Irvine only for them to be gone a few months later, quietly of course, and be replaced with Coyle's pals. Why lie about that? Why did OC lie about knowing SEM? I mean, even if he wasn't affiliated with them at the time, as a football manager he'd have 100% heard of that agency.

 

 

[tomphil]

Coyle was publically affiliated with them in his Bolton days so what he said was an outright lie.

As for Senior I think he was nothing more than a window dressing exercise to deflect the attention that was beginning to rev up on shadow man. They probably just used Senior to make the change from one desperado to another yet didn't let him go all out to recruit for a relegation fight player wise just placated him with letting him sign one of his boys then the door slammed in his face.

The only good thing is he or they didn't let Coyle foist anymore of his crap onto the books.

[JHRover]

Just now, Dreams of 1995 said:

It's alarming that it took the introduction of Paul Senior to get rid of Coyle. It had some striking resemblances to the Singh vs Kean scenario - whereby another employee of the club had to ruffle feathers a bit to get rid. I firmly believe that Coyle would have finished the season as manager if not for Paul Senior. I think it was him that intervened late in the season, no one else.

Which then strikes the question: Who decided to hire Paul Senior? He didn't actually do much and certainly couldn't be solely blamed for the relegation. If it was indeed true he masterminded the sacking of Coyle and the hiring of Tony then, as it stands even to this day, he made the most popular decision made at Rovers in almost a decade! So why did he fall on the sword? Cheston hailed the manager who took us down as the "outstanding candidate" - he should go. The person who said to choose Coyle over Warnock - he should go. Paul Senior certainly didn't deserve to lose his job because we got relegated.

These kind of questions and decisions only point to some sort of "conspiracy". Bad decisions cannot continue to be made on this scale without their being an alternative reason for them. It isn't me being a fantasist it's just taking a look at the decisions made in the last 7 years and struggling to justify 98% of them.

Even the little things like the promise to keep Kelly/Irvine only for them to be gone a few months later, quietly of course, and be replaced with Coyle's pals. Why lie about that? Why did OC lie about knowing SEM? I mean, even if he wasn't affiliated with them at the time, as a football manager he'd have 100% heard of that agency.

 

 

They've shown no interest whatsoever in appointing a Director of Football in all the time they have owned the club. Yet suddenly decide in January 2017 to appoint Paul Senior to that position with the club in a perilous position in the league. For some reason Senior then brings in one player, on loan, in an attempt to keep us up.

If you read Senior's comments it seems someone in India suddenly started to panic at the position we found ourselves in and decided to hire an 'expert' in the business to troubleshoot/turn it around. Senior probably promised them survival if they backed his decisions and then when that didn't work out he had no leg to stand on. Not bad work for him really for 5 months.

Completely insane way of running the club of course. Why not just fire Coyle in January like he deserved? Instead start making appointments like Senior and leaving it until late February to change manager.

I actually think that a D of F structure is the only way they will ever have a chance of running the club successfully. If they delegated power to the D of F with a budget and left him to hire/fire managers and oversee recruitment I think it could still work with absentee owners as it does at other clubs. But that D of F needs to be qualified, competent and empowered to do the job. Instead we got Senior with a dubious CV who clearly wasn't able to do the job (hence only making 1 signing and waiting 6 weeks to fire Coyle) and then by the summer they had decided that actually they didn't want that structure any more and were going back to the manager running everything on his own because he talks sense and is a nice man. That's lovely but the primary measure of a manager's ability is the results he delivers, not how he talks or any other nonsense. So if results aren't good enough the manager should be sacked and replaced. We can't do that now because it would mean ripping everything up and starting afresh.

[Leonard Venkhater]

33 minutes ago, lraC said:

I would imagine that the current owners, would need to waive all of the debt. The writing was on the wall, before the takeover, but I guess that's now water under the bridge.

https://t.co/QsTe229cfi?ssr=true

"...But fears are growing over the future of manager Sam Allardyce and chairman John Williams if the takeover goes through, and there are concerns about Venky’s links with football agency Kentaro and the possibility of the club being used as a showcase for
their stable of players. "

Yet Walkers still sold. Scudamore washed his hands and the F.A. were in cahoots with Kentaro...

[lraC]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

"...But fears are growing over the future of manager Sam Allardyce and chairman John Williams if the takeover goes through, and there are concerns about Venky’s links with football agency Kentaro and the possibility of the club being used as a showcase for
their stable of players. "

Yet Walkers still sold. Scudamore washed his hands and the F.A. were in cahoots with Kentaro...

Amazing isn't it? and no one can blame hindsight as all this was written, BEFORE the takeover.

[JAL]

1 hour ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Not sure we supporters are really in a position to comment on this John. The ref obviously spoke to TM in a way that he disapproved of,  and he has every right to speak out about it as it is important feedback for the development of the official in question. 

Should we not be careful of jumping onto the one and only side of this story when in fact for second week running a Rovers player has overstepped the mark with regards to playing to the Laws of the game.

One player violently and deliberately kicks an opponent to get sent off then another jumps out the way of an oncoming challenge.

[lraC]

31 minutes ago, JHRover said:

But its in the past. Nothing we can do about that now. Water under the bridge. Forget it ever happened. Its about what we do in the present and future. Etc. Etc. Etc.

I could accept all that if the culprits had been identified and removed from the club, yet there's no evidence of that. We don't know who appointed Coyle, we don't know who sacked Coyle, we don't know who hired/fired Paul Senior, who then decided Tony Mowbray was God's gift and entitled to run the club on his own terms.

I'd quite like to know who is running my football club that I spend relative fortunes every year supporting. I'd also like to see heads roll when catastrophic decisions are made that get the club relegated when Joe Bloggs off Blackburn market could have made a better decision without taking fortunes out of the club for doing so.

But hey, its in the past and this is how Venkys want to do business so lets just move on and ignore it all. Meanwhile the puppet master(s) continue to lurk in the shadows throwing the sacrificial lamb Cheston to the lions when the pressure cranks up.

You have hit the nail on the head. It's your club and you spend fortunes on it, like other loyal fans over the years. I dread to think how much I have spent over the 45 years of following the Club,

Of course that means so little to these people now allegedly running the club. We don't get the respect to having a few honest answers to a few very important questions. Protecting a few shady basta**s is far more important to the FA and a few other crooks, than transparency to loyal fans. The whole thing, makes my blood boil.

[RevidgeBlue]

5 hours ago, Parsonblue said:

You talk as if we have a right to promotion.  We don't - if that was the case Sheffield United wouldn't have spent six years at this level or Leeds United three.  Of course I want to go up this season but I'm realistic enough to know that, as in life, you don't always get what you want in football.  Even if Mowbray was potted there is no guarantee that whoever replaced him would do any better - particularly as Suhail and Balaji would be handling the appointment.

Just to play devil's advocate, whoever is appointing the managers appointed TM who you appear perfectly happy with, so there's no particular reason to suggest the the next appointment would be any worse.

If something clearly isn't working then the possibility that the next man might be worse is no reason at all for sticking with what you've got. If the remit this season is promotion, and I think it ought to be with the budget and squad we have, then I don't think we're going to achieve that unless TM completely revamps his philosophy. At the moment he's sending us out as if the goal is to attain 50 points and survive. As such the players seem to be turning up when they feel like it and only winning enough to keep things looking respectable. Look what happened when we knew we had to win the final two games last season to have a chance of staying up. We played much better and if he'd only adopted a similar positive attitude 5 or 6 games earlier during that run when we went 7 without a win we might well have stayed up.

[darrenrover]

Just now, Leonard Venkhater said:

"...But fears are growing over the future of manager Sam Allardyce and chairman John Williams if the takeover goes through, and there are concerns about Venky’s links with football agency Kentaro and the possibility of the club being used as a showcase for
their stable of players. "

Yet Walkers still sold. Scudamore washed his hands and the F.A. were in cahoots with Kentaro...

No doubt that's right Leonard but we can't change what's gone. I'm as rankled as you and many others but it won't change anything historically. 

I'd love to believe that we were now in a situation where Venkys stump up the cash shortfall and we had a management structure in place with a budget to start climbing back but I genuinely don't believe it.

I was at Wigan on Saturday and it's just not the same for me. I saw the team selection and the perseverance with the likes of Antonsson and thought again WTF. In days gone by I'd have been yelling at the ludicrous sending off but didn't, my heart's been sucked out. I'm there but I'm not.

If 'they' came out and had the courage to communicate and perhaps draw a line in the sand, appoint a proper structure, even now I may think differently.

"They've' got us between a rock and a hard place now and much as I'd love them to @#/? off, I do believe we'd fold without their future financial input.

I feel physically sick even thinking about it.

I don't entirely blame Venkys, I blame the FA and the plethora of parasitic barstewards that have completely f**cked the English game as we knew it.

It's Blackburn, Preston, Burnley, it's where it all began. 

[RevidgeBlue]

Just now, JHRover said:

They've shown no interest whatsoever in appointing a Director of Football in all the time they have owned the club. Yet suddenly decide in January 2017 to appoint Paul Senior to that position with the club in a perilous position in the league. For some reason Senior then brings in one player, on loan, in an attempt to keep us up.

If you read Senior's comments it seems someone in India suddenly started to panic at the position we found ourselves in and decided to hire an 'expert' in the business to troubleshoot/turn it around. Senior probably promised them survival if they backed his decisions and then when that didn't work out he had no leg to stand on. Not bad work for him really for 5 months.

Completely insane way of running the club of course. Why not just fire Coyle in January like he deserved? Instead start making appointments like Senior and leaving it until late February to change manager.

I actually think that a D of F structure is the only way they will ever have a chance of running the club successfully. If they delegated power to the D of F with a budget and left him to hire/fire managers and oversee recruitment I think it could still work with absentee owners as it does at other clubs. But that D of F needs to be qualified, competent and empowered to do the job. Instead we got Senior with a dubious CV who clearly wasn't able to do the job (hence only making 1 signing and waiting 6 weeks to fire Coyle) and then by the summer they had decided that actually they didn't want that structure any more and were going back to the manager running everything on his own because he talks sense and is a nice man. That's lovely but the primary measure of a manager's ability is the results he delivers, not how he talks or any other nonsense. So if results aren't good enough the manager should be sacked and replaced. We can't do that now because it would mean ripping everything up and starting afresh.

The very last thing we need is a DOF adding another layer of bureaucracy and uncertainty to proceedings. The only thing we need is a combination of a decent manager reporting directly to the owners backed with a sensible budget. Arguably we've never had that whilst Venky's have been in charge. It's either been the wrong man being backed (Kean, Bowyer, Mowbray?)or the wrong man not being backed (Coyle) or I suppose some might say the right man not being backed (Lambert). Although imo Lambert never had any intention of staying longer than 6 months.

[lraC]

Just now, darrenrover said:

No doubt that's right Leonard but we can't change what's gone. I'm as rankled as you and many others but it won't change anything historically. 

I'd love to believe that we were now in a situation where Venkys stump up the cash shortfall and we had a management structure in place with a budget to start climbing back but I genuinely don't believe it.

I was at Wigan on Saturday and it's just not the same for me. I saw the team selection and the perseverance with the likes of Antonsson and thought again WTF. In days gone by I'd have been yelling at the ludicrous sending off but didn't, my heart's been sucked out. I'm there but I'm not.

If 'they' came out and had the courage to communicate and perhaps draw a line in the sand, appoint a proper structure, even now I may think differently.

"They've' got us between a rock and a hard place now and much as I'd love them to @#/? off, I do believe we'd fold without their future financial input.

I feel physically sick even thinking about it.

I don't entirely blame Venkys, I blame the FA and the plethora of parasitic barstewards that have completely f**cked the English game as we knew it.

It's Blackburn, Preston, Burnley, it's where it all began. 

It has to be an in going fight to expose this lot. It feels a lot like a crime committed against a family member and not being able to rest, until the perpetrator, has been brought to justice. People are still working hard, to get some answers and that fight will continue. Criminal activity has brought this about and we, as fans should  not rest until this club is cleansed.