[Archived] Simon Grayson

[DE.]

1 hour ago, davulsukur said:

It's a good point.

You wouldn't keep K**n in charge just because he was 8th manager in 7 years.

If TM isn't doing the required, his position will always be questioned.

The eight managers in question are presumably -

Allardyce - sacking was obviously a stupid move, although it had the backing of a fair few supporters at the time
Kean - given long enough to relegate us, then bailed when the wheels started falling off in our first championship season. People often forget he resigned, he was never and maybe would never have been sacked
Berg - victim of the shebby/shaw/agnew wars
Appleton - victim of the shebby/shaw/agnew wars
Bowyer - beneficiary of the shebby/shaw/agnew wars. Was here for a couple of seasons. 
Lambert - resigned, not sacked
Coyle - given six months too long
Mowbray - TBD

8 managers in 7 years looks bad, but context tells a more complex story. Four of those eight were appointed and sacked in the first two and a half years or so. Since 2013 we had two and a half seasons of Bowyer, which is generally longer than most modern managerial reigns, Lambert who chose to leave, Coyle who should never have been appointed and now Mowbray. 

Meanwhile Watford have been sacking manager after manager and getting better and better. So maybe it's less about hiring/firing frequency of the manager and more about how the club is run at core level. If so then we're basically screwed no matter what, so perhaps we should be less wound up about TM and more worried that a lot of people seem angrier at Mowbray than they are at the primary symptom of this decline - which is Venky's.

 

[Vinjay]

1 minute ago, DE. said:

The eight managers in question are presumably -

Allardyce - sacking was obviously a stupid move, although it had the backing of a fair few supporters at the time
Kean - given long enough to relegate us, then bailed when the wheels started falling off in our first championship season. People often forget he resigned, he was never and maybe would never have been sacked
Berg - victim of the shebby/shaw/agnew wars
Appleton - victim of the shebby/shaw/agnew wars
Bowyer - beneficiary of the shebby/shaw/agnew wars. Was here for a couple of seasons. 
Lambert - resigned, not sacked
Coyle - given six months too long
Mowbray - TBD

8 managers in 7 years looks bad, but context tells a more complex story. Four of those eight were appointed and sacked in the first two and a half years or so. Since 2013 we had two and a half seasons of Bowyer, which is generally longer than most modern managerial reigns, Lambert who chose to leave, Coyle who should never have been appointed and now Mowbray. 

Meanwhile Watford have been sacking manager after manager and getting better and better. So maybe it's less about hiring/firing frequency of the manager and more about how the club is run at core level. If so then we're basically screwed no matter what, so perhaps we should be less wound up about TM and more worried that a lot of people seem angrier at Mowbray than they are at the primary symptom of this decline - which is Venky's.

 

Well people blamed Coyle every time someone made a misplaced pass so why can't we give Mowbray some blame? He was rock bottom of L1 when he left his previous job. Even if he is "slightly better" than Coyle was that's hardly "good enough" is it?

[DE.]

Just now, Vinjay17 said:

Well people blamed Coyle every time someone made a misplaced pass so why can't we give Mowbray some blame? He was rock bottom of L1 when he left his previous job. Even if he is "slightly better" than Coyle was that's hardly "good enough" is it?

People blamed Allardyce for playing "boring football" whilst we were beating Wolves 3-0 and handily retaining our PL status. People can be blinkered and irrational.

We've had seven years of decline and there's only been one constant throughout it all - and it ain't Tony Mowbray. Don't read this as a defence of Mowbray, he's been making and continues to make a lot of mistakes, but if after all this time people really think a change of manager will propel us to success I don't know what to say.

We need new owners to be successful, it really is that simple. We do not and under Venky's will never have the foundations to succeed. 

[davulsukur]

4 minutes ago, DE. said:

The eight managers in question are presumably -

Allardyce - sacking was obviously a stupid move, although it had the backing of a fair few supporters at the time
Kean - given long enough to relegate us, then bailed when the wheels started falling off in our first championship season. People often forget he resigned, he was never and maybe would never have been sacked
Berg - victim of the shebby/shaw/agnew wars
Appleton - victim of the shebby/shaw/agnew wars
Bowyer - beneficiary of the shebby/shaw/agnew wars. Was here for a couple of seasons. 
Lambert - resigned, not sacked
Coyle - given six months too long
Mowbray - TBD

8 managers in 7 years looks bad, but context tells a more complex story. Four of those eight were appointed and sacked in the first two and a half years or so. Since 2013 we had two and a half seasons of Bowyer, which is generally longer than most modern managerial reigns, Lambert who chose to leave, Coyle who should never have been appointed and now Mowbray. 

Meanwhile Watford have been sacking manager after manager and getting better and better. So maybe it's less about hiring/firing frequency of the manager and more about how the club is run at core level. If so then we're basically screwed no matter what, so perhaps we should be less wound up about TM and more worried that a lot of people seem angrier at Mowbray than they are at the primary symptom of this decline - which is Venky's.

 

Without question.

It's difficult to direct anger at Venky's on a day to day basis because they rarely stick their heads above the parapet

[Vinjay]

7 minutes ago, DE. said:

People blamed Allardyce for playing "boring football" whilst we were beating Wolves 3-0 and handily retaining our PL status. People can be blinkered and irrational.

We've had seven years of decline and there's only been one constant throughout it all - and it ain't Tony Mowbray. Don't read this as a defence of Mowbray, he's been making and continues to make a lot of mistakes, but if after all this time people really think a change of manager will propel us to success I don't know what to say.

We need new owners to be successful, it really is that simple. We do not and under Venky's will never have the foundations to succeed. 

I don't care about bloody Allardyce and what has he got to do with my remarks on Mowbray? I didn't say anything specifically about the style of football and even if Mowbray was less cautious there's plenty of other things to question him on. Like I said yesterday people go on about Sam more than Jack's death. West Ham haven't collapsed since he left have they? Mainly because they didn't replace him with an imbecile.

[booth]

A few of the people saying it's crazy to think about changing the manager seem to be the same that said it when we had Kean, Bowyer, Coyle in charge. They only changed their tube when it was too late, and some were still championing them right up until their sacking. A couple have revised their history, probably due to the embarrassment. I think I would if I'd have argued vehemently for the likes of Coyle and even the loathsome Kean. I remember them saying stick when we were better placed to have appointed McCarthy, Warnock and co too.

They don't seem to learn. Perhaps that's why they supported those managers as they don't seem to be able to learn from their mistakes either.

Round and round we go.

[JHRover]

43 minutes ago, DE. said:

The eight managers in question are presumably -

Allardyce - sacking was obviously a stupid move, although it had the backing of a fair few supporters at the time
Kean - given long enough to relegate us, then bailed when the wheels started falling off in our first championship season. People often forget he resigned, he was never and maybe would never have been sacked
Berg - victim of the shebby/shaw/agnew wars
Appleton - victim of the shebby/shaw/agnew wars
Bowyer - beneficiary of the shebby/shaw/agnew wars. Was here for a couple of seasons. 
Lambert - resigned, not sacked
Coyle - given six months too long
Mowbray - TBD

8 managers in 7 years looks bad, but context tells a more complex story. Four of those eight were appointed and sacked in the first two and a half years or so. Since 2013 we had two and a half seasons of Bowyer, which is generally longer than most modern managerial reigns, Lambert who chose to leave, Coyle who should never have been appointed and now Mowbray. 

Meanwhile Watford have been sacking manager after manager and getting better and better. So maybe it's less about hiring/firing frequency of the manager and more about how the club is run at core level. If so then we're basically screwed no matter what, so perhaps we should be less wound up about TM and more worried that a lot of people seem angrier at Mowbray than they are at the primary symptom of this decline - which is Venky's.

 

Only 1 of the 7 appointed under their regime has been suitable for a club of this size and that's Paul Lambert. And when you appoint better managers with better CVs those managers expect better working conditions and budgets = he was never going to last here because he wouldn't put up with the rubbish all the others have put up with.

Kean was an eel who slithered his way up from putting the cones out for Big Sam. Berg got the job because he used to play for us and for some reason Shebby thought that to be important. Appleton was ludicrous as a young coach still cutting his teeth. Bowyer was the last man standing, arguably earned a shot at it and did a decent job but had he directly replaced Kean there would have been uproar - only because of Berg/Appelton was Bowyer welcomed into the job by so many. Coyle had long been sussed out in England after wrecking Bolton and Wigan and doing the dirty on the dingles, was banished stateside until he got his claws into Rovers ahead of Warnock. Mowbray, good bloke as he is and sense he often speaks, had been on a continual downward trajectory from 2009-2017 prior to arriving here and that has continued whether you blame him or not. A few months earlier he was applying for the Chesterfield vacancy and failed to get that so he probably couldn't believe his luck when he got the Rovers job.

 

[Norbert Rassragr]

No to Grayson. He's managed to take Sunderland beyond a potential also ran team to the equivalent of where they were when they were relegated from the premier league. They are like us when coyle was manager. Or worse. Consecutive relegations look possible!

 

[davulsukur]

4 hours ago, JHRover said:

Kean was an eel who slithered his way up from putting the cones out for Big Sam.

A mate of mine (who’s an eel btw) is livid you would insult eels so badly.

[JHRover]

Just now, davulsukur said:

A mate of mine (who’s an eel btw) is livid you would insult eels so badly.

I hear the murky waters of tropical Brunei are quite good habitats for slippery eels to go and live

[davulsukur]

3 minutes ago, JHRover said:

I hear the murky waters of tropical Brunei are quite good habitats for slippery eels to go and live

They are indeed but they don’t want Kean as a neighbour or friend.

I mean he’d have a bag of eel food in the kitchen but deny their existence entirely.

Come on, no one needs that.

[Rover_Shaun]

8 hours ago, Skiptonrover said:

Last time I looked at the poll it was over 30% wanting Mowbray to stay, I don't even think the poll is a accurate reflection of the fanbase the mostly partisan forum yes. The people you've mentioned aren't that much better & time you've paid him off it would probably represent too big of a risk to bankroll.

So you don't accept the straw poll because it's not in line with your opinion. I bet you still think those who were too lazy to vote would have said remain in the EU as it wasn't a 100% turnout.?

[blueboy3333]

6 hours ago, DE. said:

so perhaps we should be less wound up about TM and more worried that a lot of people seem angrier at Mowbray than they are at the primary symptom of this decline - which is Venky's.

It isn't easy watching your team pass the ball endlessly without wit or invention just for the sake of passing it. It's not even like we are winning to ease the pain. Managers got a lot more 'abuse' than Mowbray is getting pre-Venky's so it's hardly like all that Venky-anger is being displaced onto Mowbray. I appreciate we're 6th but Mowbray has more than enough at his disposal to be doing better. I haven't completely given up on him but I feel it is going to get worse now that he hasn't got Chapman to pull him out of a hole.

[Rover_Shaun]

The owners may as well not exist and have proven to not give a toss. So we have reverted back to being like every other club that's seriously underperforming on the pitch, the man responsible gets the flak. As he is handsomely financially compensated for. Poor flower.

[Skiptonrover]

30 minutes ago, Rover_Shaun said:

So you don't accept the straw poll because it's not in line with your opinion. I bet you still think those who were too lazy to vote would have said remain in the EU as it wasn't a 100% turnout.?

just don't think it's a accurate reflection based on 98 people last time I looked. 

[tomphil]

1 hour ago, davulsukur said:

They are indeed but they don’t want Kean as a neighbour or friend.

I mean he’d have a bag of eel food in the kitchen but deny their existence entirely.

Come on, no one needs that.

'I don't own an eel and we can't go out for poooding around here because of militant fan groups waiting around the corner'

[Waggy76]

11 hours ago, Biz said:

Thing is, lots are advocating history repeating itself. I liked GB a lot and felt he did well for us, but the general consensus is he underachieved.

Why pine for another reserve coach? 

I only pine for a proper manager...I thought Bowyer was a very poor manager .....

[bluefred]

I’d. Have Grayson over Mowbray in a heart beat. Get it done. 

[JacknOry]

Think we have missed a big trick here. If Bury manage to get Grayson, it goes to show up those saying 'Grayson wouldnt come here'

[Stuart]

Rovers aren’t looking for a new manager.

Rovers are near the play-offs and have games in hand. The Facebook and LT superfans are delighted with how things are going.

Keeping tabs on other (better) managers serves only to frustrate. The ‘who else would come here?’ argument needs ramming down a few throats though.

[Norbert Rassragr]

Grayson failed at Sunderland, and in this instant success culture one failure can rapidly become many. Look at Moyes post-Everton or Dowie. Grayson may be good at this level, but when it all goes to poo so badly, it can follow you to the next job.

That's why Paul once is working for bt sport.

[Oldgregg86]

Like mowbray after his initial success. 

[chaddyrovers]

Cant see Bury appointing Grayson. More likely to go Paul Ince imo

[Tyrone Shoelaces]

Just now, chaddyrovers said:

Cant see Bury appointing Grayson. More likely to go Paul Ince imo

Mm, nobody's  that stupid are they ?

[islander200]

58 minutes ago, chaddyrovers said:

Cant see Bury appointing Grayson. More likely to go Paul Ince imo

Seen a tweet from Nixon saying Gary Caldwell was at the match yesterday and is being linked.

Would be surprised if Grayson took it, yeah things didn't go well for him at Sunderland but surely the job he did at Preston will see him get better offers when jobs become available